Un-Savory Uber Useful Business Practices

[K8memphis]

In another thread it is being discussed about whether to embrace a request from a potential client which can reveal something that the general public will find unsavory, like freezing baked goods.

For example we all know using mixes is taboo though so many do it, they just don't tell. Hollandiase mix, cake mix whatever.

Here's what I mean, I'll go first, I know a very reputable establishment that keeps a paper shredder in the office under wraps for making tortilla strips.

[markk]

And if somebody asks them "do you make your tortilla chips with a paper shredder as I've heard?" do you think they should lie, or tell the truth?

I'm well aware that most restaurants that aren't starred establishments (and then some of those too) get a lot of their foods already prepared from Sysco. So when I'm in a restaurant, I always ask about each thing "Is this homemade? Do you make it here?"

I'm sure you'd hate me.

But when they say yes, and then I ask what ingredients are in it and they have to change their answer to "no", I come away with a terrible feeling about the place and usually leave.

But yes, more common than keeping a paper shredder is buying pre-fab foods and passing them off as your own. But I'm not shocked by it; I've come to expect it. I'd only care if people lied when asked about it. Same as using cake mixes and packaged sauces. Everybody does it.

[Joisey]

I'd be more worried about someone using a paper shredder to make fettucine than tortilla strips.

Some things are worse than others. Hollandaise from powder? LAME. Demi from a base? I'd need to know what the facility and staff situation is before making that judgment. Cake/muffin mix? No problem, not everyone can afford to have a pastry chef/cook. Premade specialty ravioli? Great, not everyone knows how to make pasta well and some of those products are pretty good.

However, if you try to pass that shit off as your own, reap what you sow. Sometimes the truth is the best option, I haven't heard a lot of grumbling about Keller using Sysco fries on his Steak Frites at the Bouchon locations.

[Teri Everitt]

A hotel I used to work for (briefly) had a very unsavory practice....reusing food! We did a lot of catering, and food that came back to my pastry kitchen (uneaten apple squares, cookies etc) was supposed to be stored and used for other functions. I am not even talking about fully wrapped food that hadn't been touched for instance if they made 7 cheese trays and only used 5 etc...I mean stuff that had been out on the buffet.

First off, the catering contract calls for a specific amount of food, and the client has already paid for the food AND

more disturbingly, the food has been out and could have been handled by the public.

I hope this practice isn't widespread in catering....I can't really tell as I only worked for the one hotel, and I left there as soon as possible.

[Joisey]

Teri..you hear horror stories about stuff like this all the time. I've worked for places that have reused certain things (made bread pudding out of unused pastry/bread from functions, things like that). Or high end items like shellfish, cocktail shrimp, etc.

I've heard about, but never seen reusing bread and butter from tables (or melting down unused butter from tables into clarified).

Most of the food in that situation either gets chucked or descended upon by the waistaff/dish crew.

[Melanger]

I am so not the only one who has had to "retread the bread". Please tell me you're not shocked by this. It is the number one SOP in busser land.

[robyn]

I thnk that's a cute idea - using a paper shredder to cut food (assuming you keep it oiled with an edible oil instead of 3 in 1 oil ). What's wrong with the idea? Robyn

[K8memphis]

I thnk that's a cute idea - using a paper shredder to cut food (assuming you keep it oiled with an edible oil instead of 3 in 1 oil  ).  What's wrong with the idea?  Robyn

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The health department would have a hissy fit. It was kept hidden in the office. I mean it never could be exactly food safe or sanitized or anything. The desserts there are over six bucks. (That's on the higher end for Memphis) It's a very nice place to eat. My husband is a service tech and he's had to service the equipment that's the only way I ever found out.

But I got another one-- I used to work for this company that had a baking department. They had so many day old fried goods that they were all in a line waiting to get really old enough to be put out. So the day olds that actually were out there were probably four days old. Four day old doughnuts are sorry sorry limp sweaty things. ugh None were ever sold.

It was hysterically funny though. The way you had to make sure you kept putting out the zillion day olds while the for real day olds aged. yuck

[phaelon56]

The absolute worst had to be back in the day when I worked one summer in the main dining room at a well known historic local hotel now closed - hint - the name was eponymous with the name of my hometown.

My first party on the first day I waited table happened to include former NYC mayor John Lindsay - five or six years out of office at that point but still looked like a movie star. He ordered the chicken salad for lunch - it was served in a half coconut shell.

We bussed our own tables at lunch and the line cook flipped when he saw me start to throw away the shell. I was not so politely informed that the shell needed to go through the dishwasher as it was considered to be "re-usable" - this was the shell including the coconut meat. Yuck!

A close second - not repugnant from a health standpoint but far more common than some folks might think - is the practice of "blending" liquor. This is usually practiced in smaller independent taverns but I suspect it happen in some restaurant liquor operations here and there as well. And it's not urban myth - I've seen it first hand and we also had one local tavern owener who was nailed by the NY state ABC for doing it.

"Blending" is done either by wholesale substitution of a cheaper liquor for a more expensive one - pouring the cheap liquour into empty bottles of a more expensive brand - or by mixing a cheaper brand or brands with the better grade to achieve something that tastes close enough to fool most people but costs less per ounce.

[Joisey]

Phaelon, I've got a GREAT one for you because you'll know who I'm talking about:

You remember a family owned restaurant, I can't say the name of the family but they had a nice "Stereo". Their restaurant was a "Landmark". Anyway, when I was working at the Sheraton in the same city, we fired our F&B director because they were paying him too much. Coincidentally this "Landmark" restaurant was closing its doors for good. Suddenly the patriarch/owner of the place is our new F&B director, except he has a new title, "maitre d'hotel" to avoid having legal issues with the former F&B. Also not coincidentally, our liquor room was suddenly full of all these great wines and top shelf booze by the case. The hotel GM not only hired this guy but paid him under the table for his liquor stock from the closed restaurant. Great booze at discount prices, NO TAX PAID ON IT...such a deal!

[Busboy]

I had a favorite Thai snack at a favorite Thai restaurant (alas, after many chef iterations, they finally got one who can't cook this dish at all) whose key ingredient was deep friend, spiced pork meatballs, which were then subsequently crumbled and tossed with peanuts, lime, chilis etc. I was such a junkie for these little treats, that the manager took me into the kitchen to show how they were made. Turns out that a key step was what might best be described as a two-day fermentation: after the meatballs were formed, they were left covered in plastic bucket (you know kind, comes filled with sour cream or something) for a day or two at room temperature in the kitchen, to get the flavor just right.

And I was such a junkie for these little treats, that it didn't bother me a bit.

[TAPrice]

I had a favorite Thai snack at a favorite Thai restaurant (alas, after many chef iterations, they finally got one who can't cook this dish at all) whose key ingredient was deep friend, spiced pork meatballs, which were then subsequently crumbled and tossed with peanuts, lime, chilis etc.  I was such a junkie for these little treats, that the manager took me into the kitchen to show how they were made.  Turns out that a key step was what might best be described as a two-day fermentation: after the meatballs were formed, they were left covered in plastic bucket (you know kind, comes filled with sour cream or something) for a day or two at room temperature in the kitchen, to get the flavor just right.

And I was such a junkie for these little treats, that it didn't bother me a bit.

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Just sounds like a little dry aging to me. What's the big deal?

[larrylee]

Just sounds like a little dry aging to me. What's the big deal?

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Agreed. A little fermentation, aging, controlled rot, makes the world go 'round.

[Busboy]

Just sounds like a little dry aging to me. What's the big deal?

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Agreed. A little fermentation, aging, controlled rot, makes the world go 'round.

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I didn't say I had a problem with it (despite years of being told by health-type agencies that meat left at room temperature for more than an hour goes bad), just that other customers might have been put off. I'll try anything.

But ley me be clear -- there's a significant difference between a side of beef hanging in a temperature-controlled meat locker with circulating air and humidity control, or even a pan of pre-made meatballs in the walk-in, and a pile of meatballs (dry it was not) shoved underneath the dishwasher.

[larrylee]

But ley me be clear --  there's a significant difference between a side of beef hanging in a temperature-controlled meat locker with circulating air and humidity control, or even a pan of pre-made meatballs in the walk-in,  and a pile of meatballs (dry it was not) shoved underneath the dishwasher.

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Yeah, I suppose on a certain level that makes me cringe. When I recently walked past a butcher shop in a Saigon street market (80+ degrees F, sunny, humid) with large primal cuts of meat hanging down into bowls of tripe, my eyes did widen a bit. But now that I think about it, I'm willing to bet that the bowls of ground pork used for the grilling into bun cha sold in the sidewalk restaurants are not refrigerated, either.

I do hope the bucket was at least covered with some plastic.

[SuzySushi]

My childhood dentist was a family friend of ours. Before becoming a dentist he did his military service as a baker in the Navy. This would've been in the late 1940s or early 1950s.

He swore that when he made Danish pastries on the ship en masse, the bakers would spread the dough out on the floor and walk over the dough as they were sprinkling on the filling ingredients -- they figured that the heat of the oven would kill any germs. . .

Tall tale or. . . . ??? (He never ate a Danish again after getting out of the Service.)

[TAPrice]

Just sounds like a little dry aging to me. What's the big deal?

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Agreed. A little fermentation, aging, controlled rot, makes the world go 'round.

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Maybe I choose the wrong emoticon to express that I was joking. (Although I'm willing to take some controlled fermentation and rot. You only live once, I personally I'd rather die eating something delicious.)

[phaelon56]

Phaelon, I've got a GREAT one for you because you'll know who I'm talking about:

You remember a family owned restaurant, I can't say the name of the family but they had a nice "Stereo".  Their restaurant was a "Landmark".  Anyway, when I was working at the Sheraton in the same city, we fired our F&B director because they were paying him too much.  Coincidentally this "Landmark" restaurant was closing its doors for good.  Suddenly the patriarch/owner of the place is our new F&B director, except he has a new title, "maitre d'hotel" to avoid having legal issues with the former F&B.  Also not coincidentally, our liquor room was suddenly full of all these great wines and top shelf booze by the case.  The hotel GM not only hired this guy but paid him under the table for his liquor stock from the closed restaurant.  Great booze at discount prices, NO TAX PAID ON IT...such a deal!

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Yes... some great vintages of Bordeaux as well as many other good wines were stored in the wine vault at that "landmark" restaurant. That wine vault was actually a genuine bank vault left over from the 1860's when the Gridley Building was first constructed and housed a bank.

When I was a kid there was a porno book store on the ground level where the restaurant later opened and the front side of the building had a White Tower hamburger stand attached to it (yes that is White Tower - NOT White Castle). By the late 1960's the upper floors had no windows and a bunch of pigeons flying in and out of the abandoned space. Downtown Syracuse has not regained all of its former glory but it's a darn sight better than it was back then.

My very first restaurant biz job, of which I have fond memories, was working there as a busboy. The owner and his brother were a class act and great employers but times changed and their food/menu did not. Despite a fairly good location it appears to be one of those doomed spots - a half dozen or more restaurants have come and gone in that space since then and none have lasted more than a year or so.

[paulraphael]

But ley me be clear --  there's a significant difference between a side of beef hanging in a temperature-controlled meat locker with circulating air and humidity control, or even a pan of pre-made meatballs in the walk-in,  and a pile of meatballs (dry it was not) shoved underneath the dishwasher.

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Certainly true. Sometimes in these cases I'll run for the hills, but other times I'll take a couple of steps back and see that in spite of all the theory, these people have doing this for years (and maybe it's a tradition that goes back farther than that) and no one seems to be dying, so maybe they actually know what they're doing with that mop bucket and used meat!

[robyn]

But ley me be clear --  there's a significant difference between a side of beef hanging in a temperature-controlled meat locker with circulating air and humidity control, or even a pan of pre-made meatballs in the walk-in,  and a pile of meatballs (dry it was not) shoved underneath the dishwasher.

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Certainly true. Sometimes in these cases I'll run for the hills, but other times I'll take a couple of steps back and see that in spite of all the theory, these people have doing this for years (and maybe it's a tradition that goes back farther than that) and no one seems to be dying, so maybe they actually know what they're doing with that mop bucket and used meat!

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The fact that more people don't die from improper food handling is a great tribute to the strength of most of our immune systems. As with most diseases - food poisoning tends to kill mostly the very young - the very old - and other people whose immune systems aren't terrific. People who have good immune systems may have some fleeting minor GI problems - or feel nothing at all.

FWIW - all meatballs can be dangerous (although some can be more dangerous than others) - since the act of turning meat into chopped meat can take nasty things on the outside of the meat - where they're easy to kill by cooking - and put them inside the meatball - where they're harder to kill. I was looking through some meatball recipes this week - and I was surprised that a lot called for taking raw meatballs and "simmering" them for maybe 15 minutes in sauce to "cook" them. Seemed like a pretty dangerous way to deal with chopped meat. Robyn

[scottie]

My sister wroked for years as a server at a "Southern" restaurant in NYC, where they feature "Coco-Cola Cake" on the menu. She discovered that the Coc-Cola Cake is comprised only of Duncan Hines chocolate cake mix, with no Coca-Cola in it whatsoever.

People eat it up, and ask for more!

[Michaeltheonion]

However, if you try to pass that shit off as your own, reap what you sow. Sometimes the truth is the best option, I haven't heard a lot of grumbling about Keller using Sysco fries on his Steak Frites at the Bouchon locations.

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[phaelon56]

Is this true? I mean really I find it hard to believe that Thomas Keller would use sysco products in such an iconic dish as steat frites. Where does this info come from. It may shatter my view of this man. However I just found out that Charlie Trotter trains executive chefs for Aramark so it would suprise me.

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Thomas Keller uses Illy pods for the espresso at Cafe Bouchon. It's not a stretch from there to frozen Sysco fries. And I'll bet the frites he makes from frozen stuff are far closer to fresh cut frites than the espresso is the the real deal. The Illy pod espresso at Cafe Bouchon is as atrocious as pod espresso is in other non-Keller establishments.

[Nathan]

He's publicly admitted to using Sysco fries.

I could care less.

[piperdown]

Here's a link to the article

Frozen Fries

My opinion on it it that, if he feel's there good enough for is restaurant, then it's OK with me. I think if a lot of people were complaining aobut it, he wouldn't use them. That being said, giving recipes and directions on how to make fries in the Bouchon cookbook is a little disingenuous, but I can also se why he didn't leave that out.