The Cooking and Cuisine of the Veneto

[Kevin72]

One interesting aspect of Venetian cooking is that, like Sicily, they aren't so averse to the fish and cheese pairings. For Sunday's app, we started with a variation of the shrimp and scamorza "pie" from the Da Fiore Cookbook:

Their recipe is basically several slices of thick-cut smoked cheese and parmigiano melted over shrimp and artichokes. I didn't want such a heavy onslaught of cheese, so I instead made mine kinda souffle-like, mixing in less cheese with egg yolks and whipped whites, then baking it off. Probably went a little too long: things were kinda tough. But good flavors, though I did reflexively cringe, still, at pairing the strong smoked cheese, parmigiano, and delicate sweet shrimp.

We then continued with seafood risotto:

I made a stock from some lobster shells that had been sitting stinking up my freezer. Mixed in with the soffrito was tomato paste. The seafood elements were cuttlefish, scallops, and sauteed lobster tail added at the last minute over the top. I was really proud of this dish, one of the best new things I've made in recent memory.

Dessert was my attempt at a giant version of the Venetian cornmeal cookies served at Lent. It was a bit dry, but maybe will make a good breakfast accompaniment.

[Pontormo]

What a sight to behold.

Thanks for joining in, and with such a bang, Wienoo! You did justice to the cheeses of this region, too, something I've neglected despite learning that Asiago is from this region.

Kevin, the prospect of fatherhood must be making you giddy--the descriptions of your meals are a blast, here. I regretted not have a meat grinder until I read your translation of "bigoli" which takes on a rather unfortunate significance if you consider that they're made with whole wheat flour.

If you ever get a chance, I'd love the recipe for the meatballs, especially the sauce you raved about.

And, yes, Franci, as always both your baking and your photography are exquisite. That radicchio...the close-up of rice...the slivers of almonds resting on a swollen mound of moist, golden dough...

And Elie, I found the recipe for apple risotto online. Got a kick out of your verbal child's enthusiasm. I'm guessing the sausage on the far left is the lemon-thyme and on the far right, I think I see a fennel seed...

[Kevin72]

And another bigoli thing: the damned things don't even make for good leftovers. They just kind of glued together into a starchy, sticky ball and have a gummy exterior texture and chalky, undercooked interior. Blech. I hope FM has better luck if he makes this. (Or maybe not, since he'll really be showing me up then! )

[FoodMan]

All I can say is wow...I've been pretty busy and unavailable these past few days and I come back to spread after spread of awsome looking food.

Weinoo, that is a great spread especially those skewers. Too bad you did not enjoy the polenta cake. We kept on eating it for breakfast till it was finished.

Franci, as a bread lover, that Fugassa is just too much. I can almost smell it!

Kevin, that risotto has to be one of the best things I've seen on this thread. I keep going back to look at it. Really perfect.

Now, on to the Bigoli. I am still going to make them and use your unfortunate experience to learn form and see what I get. I've been wanting to make them for so long, if I don't even give them a try it'll keep on bugging me. So, in the next day or two I'll try the bigoli.

Pontormo...you guess right.

[Kevin72]

Now, on to the Bigoli. I am still going to make them and use your unfortunate experience to learn form and see what I get. I've been wanting to make them for so long, if I don't even give them a try it'll keep on bugging me. So, in the next day or two I'll try the bigoli.

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I know, I know. I'd been fascinated forever by them, also and I don't think I'd have been swayed from making them either. But maybe look around and see if you can find different recipes from the one Mario gives, in case that was the culprit. And maybe be prepared to just make them into whole wheat fettucine.

[hathor]

Elie: PM me if you want a bigoli formula! I swear it never stuck together...I'm guessing its the type of flour used. But its so damn stiff that it really is a pain (physical arm pain) to work with! Kevin, you crack me up!!

Mitch: next time you're cooking Italian, let me beg for an invite!! We got down from the mountains just a little too late for your big feast. It looks wonderful! What fun.

Green apple risotto....what a great idea. And pairing it with pork....inspired!

Franci: I would give anything for some of that radicchio, it just looks beautiful.

We are back in the land of ingredients, and I don't care if its the end of the month....I still want to cook Veneto!

P.S. Where are we going in March?

Edited February 28, 2007 by hathor (log)

[Kevin72]

Le Marche.

Are you not supposed to let the dough rest? I made it in the morning and then ran it through that night.

[Pontormo]

A number of us have been turning to episodes of Molto Mario for inspiration. Last night I decided to produce the meal demonstrated in the tenth episode the chef devotes to the Veneto.

Since I was cooking just for myself and this was a departure from the (sort of) more ascetic fare I've slowly been adopting ever since my bathroom scale began scolding me back in Emilia-Romagna, I assumed the persona of Nonna Zappa to make do with what I had around the house. Even though I passed shelves filled with bottles of Prosecco while shopping and could have hopped on the Metro to buy a frozen bunny rabbit, I didn't like the idea of solitary drunkenness nor the extra calories. There was an opened bottle of cheap white wine from Trader Joe in the fridge. Given differences between Judith's reports of succulent rabbit abroad and the less than satisfied reports of Andrew and Kevin when it came to our domestic counterparts, I also went with chicken thighs instead of rabbit legs. No angles to maneuver while removing bones.

Primo: Green gnocchi con caduta di formaggio

I've made plenty of ricotta gnocchi before, gnudi, even gnocchi di zucca thanks to Franci's inspiration. This was my first time with potato gnocchi and Mario wasn't much help for a novice, so I consulted Marcella Hazan for fork-flipping advice. I also streamlined the online recipe by using frozen spinach. While my results were neither uniform nor perfectly shaped, I found the whole process just as easy.

Hazan prefers to make gnocchi without eggs, finding them fluffier. I went with Batali, though, and was happy with the otherwise sticky dough. Ricing the potato really made the texture light and delicate despite my worries it would clump up and get gummy as a result of kneading.

There was one bit of advice Batali offered that didn't work for me. He suggests keeping an ice bath ready and transferring the cooked gnocchi to the bowl before adding a new batch to the pot on the stove. Drain, drizzle with EVOO, toss, refrigerate, and when ready, plop 'em back in the water and sauce. Don't. The just-cooked gnocchi were perfect: light, tender dot dot dot. The ones I took out of the fridge and reheated on the stove? Not horrid, but slightly gummy exteriors. I also read recommendations (elsewhere) for transferring the cooked gnocchi to a warm oven and suspect that even a microwave would be better for anyone who had to wait a long time in between preparing and serving gnocchi.

As for the sauce, it was great even with modifications. Franci's exqusite radicchio reminded me of another thread in which we discussed red endive. Upon learning they derive from crossing Belgian endives with Radicchio di Treviso, I bought some, sautéing one before adding Gorgonzola (ummmm....) to the butter, and using slivers of the deep red raw tips of another bulb as garnish.

As for the Braised, Stuffed Chicken Thigh with Red Onions, Apricots & Cherries, I only ate one. This is one example of many braises in which the sweet element of dried fruit works well with savory ingredients, especially since both fruits have a complementary tartness. Obviously, I had to cut back the amount of cooking time with the substitutions, but otherwise I was quite pleased with the recipe and would make it again. I might increase the amount of rosemary and walnuts in the pesto-like stuffing one spreads inside the butterflied legs before rolling them up; the fruity wine sauce with all those onion bits drowned out the hidden flavors. However, the paste kept the thin, rolled meat moist.

Edited February 28, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[Pontormo]

Both Hathor and I checked into the city a little early with sardines, stuffed Venetian style with anchovies, breadcrumbs and herbs.

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Ah, the legendary en saor preparations of Venice.  Of course, the version with sole is perfectly good.  However, for a different take, there's a version in the da Fiore cookbook that uses citrus as its sour basis instead of vinegar. I really liked it and it almost seemed Asian in some ways. 

There's also, ahem, my own concoction that I really like using shrimp instead of fish.

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For the record, I did not prepare the sardines en saor as Franci did later on in this thread. While the link I offered originally still refuses to give the reader access to the recipe I found there, Anna Del Conte includes a similar recipe in her book on Northern Italian cooking. After removing the bones and stuffing the fish, they're baked under a light blanket of EVOO and the fresh herbs used in the stuffing.

[Pontormo]

With the wife being pregnant, I was worried she'd be averse to the all seafood onslaught of my typical Valentine's feast..  So I came up with a newer menu, still Venetian-inspired, though. 

Then, my traditional Valentine's ravioli, a re-interpretationl of the beet ravioli in Michele Scicolone's Italian Holiday Food cookbook. 

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Finally, I wanted to add a reminder or one quick note about the beautiful heart-shaped raviioli that Shaya also produced for this thread and just how appropriate it was to choose this region for Valentine's Day.

Venetians take advantage of the similarity of the name of their city--"Venezia" or "Venetia"--and the Italian words "venerare" (to venerate), and "Venere" (Venus). Thus, the cult-like status of Venus in Venice and all those Venetian paintings of the goddess with her arrow-bearing, winged son or chubby little naked putti flying around in the air.

Edited February 28, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[Kevin72]

There was one bit of advice Batali offered that didn't work for me.  He suggests keeping an ice bath ready and transferring the cooked gnocchi to the bowl before adding a new batch to the pot on the stove.  Drain, drizzle with EVOO, toss, refrigerate, and when ready, plop 'em back in the water and sauce.  Don't.  The just-cooked gnocchi were perfect: light, tender dot dot dot.  The ones I took out of the fridge and reheated on the stove? Not horrid, but slightly gummy exteriors.  I also read recommendations (elsewhere) for transferring the cooked gnocchi to a warm oven and suspect that even a microwave would be better for anyone who had to wait a long time in between preparing and serving gnocchi.

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I agree. I never understood this step. But otherwise, this recipe has become a Christmas dinner primo that gets demanded every year and is one of my very favorites.

[hathor]

Le Marche.

Are you not supposed to let the dough rest?  I made it in the morning and then ran it through that night.

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No rest for the bigoli dough. I went back to my Ital.cook recipe and its pretty simple:

125 gg Tipo 00

125 gg Durum wheat

eggs as needed

Great! As needed...that only works if someone is showing you what to do! We only let it rest for about 30 minutes, then put it in the press.

Bigoli is great with a sardine sauce.

Speaking of sardines, I didn't make stuffed sardines, I made them 'in saor'. But, my recipe is different from Franci's in that the sardines are barely, barely cooked. The heat from the hot onions finishes the cooking process and then the fishies have to marinate for at least 5 days. Or until you can't stand it and have to attack, I mean eat them.

Pontormo, your dinner sounds fantastic! I've never had luck with gnocchi unless they go right into the pot, and then the mouth. Everytime I try to 'conserve' them, or hold them, I get mush. I went to the big Fairway in NYC...but no radicchio. So, I'll have to live vicariously thru yours and Franci's descriptions. Proseco! Sometimes you can find these little 1 or 2 glass bottles...some distributor in NJ imports them and every once in awhile you can find them. It's just the right amount!

I finally have one of the cookbooks that everybody else has...I have the DellaCroce Veneto book, and in my wisdom, I forgot to pack it to take skiing with me. Now, that I'm reading it, I realize I've been cooking Veneto without realizing it: lots of meat and fruit combinations. I love that play of savory with fruity sweetness. There is even a recipe calling for pomegranates! Although it does call for 2 bottles of pomegranate juice...hmmmm....

[FoodMan]

(like my wife's latest project? a chalkboard in the kitchen...I sure do )

Ok, now the bigoli. Thanks to Kevin's problems and experience (sorry Kevin), I decided to make them on the drier side to avoid sticking. I pretty much followed Mario's recipe from "Simple Italian Food" but was more liberal with the whole wheat. The resulting dough was pretty dry and tough to knead, but I persevered and kneaded for a good 10 minutes. Then let it rest for thirty and started extruding them in my manual meat grinder. I also made sure to keep sprinkling corn meal as I went along to avoid sticking and I think that helped as well, but honestly I do not think they would've stuck because the dough was not on the moist side.

The diameter of my meat grinder dye is more than twice that of a KitchenAid, so making 12 inch long Bigoli was not possible. Mine were about 4-5 inches on average, still a good length. When all is said and done here are the pain-in-the-neck issues with making these, but none are too serious:

- The dough is TOUGH to extrude manually. It gave me quiet a workout

- Cleaning the dough that remains stuck in the holes of the metal dye is annoying and time comsuming

I served the Bigoli with a Duck and Mushroom Ragu. The recipe is from the same book. Since I was short on the duck legs I added some muschrooms in there. The end result is like no pasta I've ever had. Very distinctive taste and texture. IT had a full earthy whole wheat flavor and a rough slightly chewy texture. My wife like it very much as well and said it works great with the hearty ragu. I agree. Now, I'm thinking of making a form of extruded spaghetti using the same method. Think it'd work?

Extruding the Bigoli

Finished Bigoli

A close up to give you an idea of the unique texture these things have

Last night's dinner

Served

Kevin give them another try and make sure your dough is on the dry side. They are worth it.

Dessert. Maybe not truely Venetian, but on the other hand some form of Ciambella is made in several regions. No? This one is from Marcella Hazan's Essentials book.

I had banana that needed using. So, I caramelized them and served them with the sliced cake and cream (I'm guessing this combo is definitly not Venetian , but sooooo damn good)

[Kevin72]

Well, congratulations. I am secretly cursing you under my breath of course!

Seriously though, glad they worked out and they do indeed look much more like the version Mario's made on his shows. So, did you use a KitchenAid or some other electric appliance to extrude them? I'd think that semolina dough would be even harder to extrude than bigoli (though Hathor's recipe above uses it?). Which was in part why I let the dough rest: I was worried if it was too stiff it'd blow my motor out going through the grinder.

Mario has, however, made pasatelli with the extruder before: a mixture of breadcrumbs, parmigiano, eggs, parsley, and scant flour extruded directly into hot broth.

[ludja]

I enjoy baking breads and I decided it was a long time I didn't bake anything apart from my weekly bread.

I wanted to give it a try to fugassa or fugazza, a brioche dough not as rich as the more famous Pandoro, it's not as complex but still requires a good day of work. This the recipe I followed if anybody is interested. It's a traditional Easter dough and could be baked also in a dove mold.

...

Not too sweet, not too buttery, overall a very nice dough. I think the general trend in pasticceria is making all the breads richer and sweeter than they used to be. The only mistake, if we want to call it so, is that I forgot before sliding it into the oven  to make a deep cross on top.

Edited to add this comment: I just been told by someone from veneto that the traditional shape is not the one I choose, it's rather a round brioche with a cross in the middle, basically something like this

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Thank you so much for sharing this, franci. This looks like something that I would really like. Maybe I'll try it for Easter this year.

[Pontormo]

Elie, you really should have chosen the name "Doughman" as your moniker here since you have such a way with anything made with flour or grains. I love the chalkboard and the fact that you made this particular ragu! Kevin's lobster and your duck...

And as we turn to Le Marche, I would like to remind us all that we ate a lot of our meals Venetian style this month, that is, with forks!

[hathor]

That bigoli looks pretty darn good, Elie! It reminded me of passatelli as well. I LOVE passatelli, with a little bit of orange peel thrown in. It's certainly Umbrian, but I bet those Marchigiani (sp??) eat it as well.

I also was reminded how right you are about cleaning the dye after you make the bigoli. Now that is one of the definitions of tedious.

Kevin, I just went back and looked at your seafood risotto. You had good reason to be proud....that looks beautiful.

[Pontormo]

The whole idea here was to try out this green apple risotto from Mario Batali's first book. When he first saw it served in Venice, he thought it was a new fangled thing that his hosts were trying. Apparently though, it is quiet typical in the Veneto during apple harvest season and it is very delicious....It was quick and simply divine. Just ask my 3 year old who kept saying "this is soooo gooood".

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Just a quick note of confirmation. You guys, you HAVE to try this! The kid is right! I had thawed just enough brodo for risotto and decided to make this after looking at the menu from Fabio Trabocchi's restaurant, Maestro, when I linked it to the new thread for Le Marche. Trabocchi uses Pink Lady apples, and so did I. Elie commented on how well pork goes with apples, but since my less frequent appearances here are due to all the miso soup and raw carrots I'm eating instead of multiple courses, I just went with the primo (with seconds intended for lunch) and a big salad.

So, here's the recipe. In this case, Mario's advice for pans is good--I saw Trabocchi use a wide pan for risotto, too(though he was using partially cooked grains in a demo), and found it was kinder on all ingredients involved instead of using a narrow pot with high sides. Butter and apples go together. Apples and onions.* Apples and cheese. They're all there, folks.

Kevin, I bought extra lemongrass this week to make the polpette, too.

*What's with Mario Batali and red onions? Are they really more Tuscan or Emilia-Romagnan? Elie, I love the cropping of this photograph since the signature orange Crocs on the book jacket match the rim of your plates.

Edited March 5, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[Kevin72]

There was one bit of advice Batali offered that didn't work for me.  He suggests keeping an ice bath ready and transferring the cooked gnocchi to the bowl before adding a new batch to the pot on the stove.  Drain, drizzle with EVOO, toss, refrigerate, and when ready, plop 'em back in the water and sauce.  Don't.  The just-cooked gnocchi were perfect: light, tender dot dot dot.  The ones I took out of the fridge and reheated on the stove? Not horrid, but slightly gummy exteriors.  I also read recommendations (elsewhere) for transferring the cooked gnocchi to a warm oven and suspect that even a microwave would be better for anyone who had to wait a long time in between preparing and serving gnocchi.

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I agree. I never understood this step. But otherwise, this recipe has become a Christmas dinner primo that gets demanded every year and is one of my very favorites.

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This method earns a rebuke from American Way, the American Airlines magazine, of all places. They coincidentally have a writeup comparing the gnocchi recipe of 5 cookbooks and Mario's gets zinged for this unecessary added step. Guiliano Hazan's won, with some tweaks taken from the 2nd place winner.

[FoodMan]

Elie, I love the cropping of this photograph since the signature orange Crocs on the book jacket match the rim of your plates.

So glad you enjoyed this risotto and so happy you noticed my picture

[Pontormo]

We then continued with turkey meatballs in citrus sauce from Della Croce's Veneto cookbook. 

These were highly addictive.  Very delicate meatballs and then the trace of citrus sauce really sent them into orbit.  There probably, in fact, could have been even more sauce: I doubled the recipe and it still made just a thin dribble to coat the meatballs.

Incidentally, della Croce has two recipes in her cookbook that call for ginger and lemongrass in them. I know Venice is of course a spice and exotic flavor capital, but I wonder how traditional those two in particular are.  Not that I'm complaining since they do make for a novel break.

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Earlier in the week I came across a remaindered copy of the book and just jotted down a few things about the recipe since Kevin had already sent a PM with instructions. I used tons of scallions in the polpette and decided to mix in a little of the lemongrass. I used the zest of a Meyer lemon along with juice from a small blood orange and half a Cara-Cara in the sauce which I decided to treat just as a dipping sauce without reducing it. It proved okay, just kind of boring, so I reduced the leftover gingery citrus mixture with the meatballs I didn't eat and incorporated these into a simple ummm Venetian-Marchigiano-Thai wedding soup with rice and additional lemongrass in the broth. I removed the polpette when warm, and mixed a little beaten egg with a little broth before stirring this into the pot. Returned polpette, sprinkled with scallion. The results were perfect for a light, simple meal in chilly weather.

I haven't a clue about the ginger, but I wonder if lemongrass is simply more available to della Croce's targeted reader than bergamot lemons since the fragrance is somewhat similar to Earl Grey tea. Either that or citron.

[hathor]

I thought bergamot was an orange, and it is what gives Earl Grey it's distinctive flavor.

Love the fusion wedding soup!

[Pontormo]

I have an Italian tea towel with "limone berg..." and in the print the fruits look indeed like lemons.

ETA: However, a quick online check (only) indicates that "Citrus aurantium subspecies bergamia" is also known as bergamot oranges...commercially grown largely in S. Italy.

Edited March 7, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[Chufi]

I saw bergamot lemons at my farmers market last week! They looked like big, irregular lemons. Didn't buy any. Maybe this Saturday, I'm intrigued now...

[Pontormo]

OH, please pick some up during your next trip and report back. I think the zest would provide the distinctive flavor in the tea, but I'm sure you'd be able to hunt down a good Italian recipe for the rest of the fruit...or borrow a friend's ice cream maker...