Philadelphia Tasters' Club

[townsend]

OK. Anything else?

Perhaps if it isnt too late, ome of that fabulous "Beurre De Charents" from Lescure.

The one with the crunchy FDS in it.

I just got back to philly and I am off to score some quality grapeseed oil.

see ya

←

V,

Should have mentioned the Lescure when you were by...albeit minus the FDS...

T

[Vadouvan]

V,

Should have mentioned the Lescure when you were by...albeit minus the FDS...

T

Thanks Todd, by the way you rock brother.

[Vadouvan]

I cant seem to fall asleep. I'm in a beef induced euphoria.

First of all thanks for everyone's efforts and participation.

DAgordon you are the man.

A special thank you to Chef Todd (That's Townsend to you) Wentz at Twenty Twenty One restaurant in commerce square for procuring what happened to be one of the best steaks of the evening.

Phil-A for the photography as usual and Professor Fentonski's intellectual addition to the conversation.

Steaks were as follows.

We decided to skip Wagyu due to the obvious advantage.

1. DiBrunos Dry Aged (Strip) Rib Eye

2. Wells CAB (Black Angus)

3. Wells Dry Aged Choice

4. Esposito 21day Dry Aged Strip

5. Harry Ochs Dry Aged Porterhouse

6. Whole Foods (Dry Aged) Str

7. Wolfe Neck Rib Eye

8. Peter Luger’s Dry Aged Porterhouse

9. Lobels 6w Dry Aged Porterhouse

Steaks were all cooked the same way.

Halen-Mon Salt

Leblanc Grapeseed Oil

Black Carbon Steel French Pans.

Others will probably give more detailed responses but to sum it up..

Lobel's was by far the best.

Peter Luger's while excellent could have been better.

Wolfe Neck was just truly delicious for me, it had a gret beefy flavor, good chew and balance of tenderness at about 1/3 the price of Lobel's.

If I was saying it alone, it may be percieved as shilling but I think other attendees will agree the Wolfe's Neck meat rocked.

Of the Local Steaks, the best was Wells CAB a great delicious steak for simple steakhouse dishes..

Wells Dry Aged Choice was good but not as tender as the better steaks.

Esposito's was a conundrum.

It displayed some very interesting flavor notes that some found way too strong.

I think it is a steak with character well suited to more complicated platings and pairings.

Perfect for something like a Bordelaise or Marchand De Vin.

Great texture, strong flavor reminiscent of Scottish beef.

It's complexity in my opinion also makes it a *great* grilling steak especially if fruitwoods are involved in the grilling.

Harry Ochs was just OK, not even remotely close to the top 4.

No special distinctive character.

Dibruno's steak could not compete with the top steaks.

This should not be held against DB brothers, they just sell the meat.......but they need to change thier meat supplier to George Wells.

Far better Steaks for the same price points...

Whole foods steak basically sucked ____ (rhymes with the french word for cup) and should be shipped to Alligator pens at the Zoo.

Expensive, boring,tasteless, grainy.

Whole Lotta flavorlessness...

My Picks

1. Lobel

2. Wolfe Neck

3. Luger

4. Wells CAB

5. Esposito

Steak I am most likely to purchase with frequency, cost and all other attributes taken into consideration, Wells CAB, Wolfe and Lobel.

More discussion as other's post thier thoughts.

French fries to cleanse the palate

bacon and eggs for dessert.

Lipitor party treats......

Edited February 9, 2007 by Vadouvan (log)

[percyn]

In anticipation of Phil-A's pics, here is something to wet your appetite...

The Miss Moooinverse lineup

[mrbigjas]

for the first time, i regret having this kid.

ok so anyway, this answers the question of which is the best meat available (answer: lobel's).

and it answers dagordon's original question, which is are they available in philadelphia (answer: not really).

but doesn't answer the other question that arises, which is of the fancy stuff that is supposedly available in town, how do we as consumers get it?

i mean, the olive oil was easy: go to dibruno's.

but this is a bit more difficult. for instance, your top five are:

1. lobel: mail order or pick up in NY

2. wolfe neck: mail order (?) if it's available to the general public at all

3. luger: mail order or pick up in NY

4. wells: apparently available in philadelphia, but not retail? -- edited: just called, and they don't sell to the public

5. esposito dry-aged: see #4, or can someone just buy this at the store?

so what's the deal? say i wanna make myself a kickass steak, price not an object... TONIGHT. edited again to clarify: without driving up to NY or to upstate PA or north jersey or whatever. i mean in the greater philadelphia area, and preferrably in town.

do i have an option here, or am i screwed?

Edited February 9, 2007 by mrbigjas (log)

[mrbigjas]

p.s. while i'm at it, can we have a quick diversion and talk about this cooking method? i think i emailed you asking about it but i forget for sure.

[Vadouvan]

for the first time, i regret having this kid.

ok so anyway, this answers the question of which is the best meat available (answer: lobel's).

and it answers dagordon's original question, which is are they available in philadelphia (answer: not really).

but doesn't answer the other question that arises, which is of the fancy stuff that is supposedly available in town, how do we as consumers get it?

i mean, the olive oil was easy: go to dibruno's.

but this is a bit more difficult. for instance, your top five are:

1. lobel: mail order or pick up in NY

2. wolfe neck: mail order (?) if it's available to the general public at all

3. luger: mail order or pick up in NY

4. wells: apparently available in philadelphia, but not retail? -- edited: just called, and they don't sell to the public

5. esposito dry-aged: see #4, or can someone just buy this at the store?

so what's the deal? say i wanna make myself a kickass steak, price not an object... TONIGHT.

do i have an option here, or am i screwed?

Mr Big, not to dismiss your question but I am on my way back to NY and wont be able to post til tommorow. The others will fill in the blanks.

To answer your question quickly.

The issue of consumers having access to better meat is going to have to be handled by the "middlemen" but the "middlemen" have no incentive or desire to do so because customers as a whole are not clamoring for better meat.

The middlemen are specialty or even just good grocery stores.

If you look at NY, I can walk into Citarella/Fairway/Dean and Deluca and my favourite... Agata and Valentina to buy a great steak which they buy from meat suppliers.

The problem in Philly is retailers need to buy better meat.

Yes Wells does not sell to the public, they sell to restaurants and hotels.

They will sell to grocery stores like say Dibruno but I imagine there has to be enough interest.

They already have a huge investment in the meat shop, maybe you ought to send them a note.

Regarding Wolfe Neck, Todd Wentz serves it at 20/21, it is procured from D'artagnan but only sold as a whol gigantic piece....again, Dibruno, Wegmans,whole foods and all these othe places sell D'artagnan products. Your problem rest with the meat Buyers who just need to source better meat.

Arguably the achilles heel of this tasting is that restaurant quality meat is just far superior but it can only be purchased in quantity and not directly available to the public.

Simply picking out retail meat would have been a relative waste of time and money although Gordon thinks whole foods has better meat and consistency issues......but last night's sample was egregiously bad.

As for cooking method, PHilA-D has pics.

Talk later tonight or tommorow.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Vadouvan (log)

[Andrew Fenton]

Yeah, the question of where a civilian can get these meats is something we talked about last night. Basically, the answer to your question is: no. If you want a crazy good steak, you'll have to order it from Lobel's or wherever; bend over your credit card and take it like a man; and then wait for it to be delivered.

If you have a connection in the restaurant business, you can get the Wolfe's or the Well's Angus, which are still really good, and are relatively cheap (the Wolfe is only like $10/pound). But you have to have a connection.

But if you want a really good steak RIGHT NOW, you're out of luck-- unless you like the controversial "I SEE DEAD PEOPLE" steak from Esposito's, that is.

Vadouvan's point here needs to be stressed:

The problem in Philly is retailers need to buy better meat.

Yes Wells does not sell to the public, they sell to restaurants and hotels.

They will sell to grocery stores like say Dibruno but I imagine there has to be enough interest.

They already have a huge investment in the meat shop, maybe you ought to send them a note.

There's no reason why DiBruno's should be carrying mediocre steaks from a butcher in New Jersey, when they could be carrying first-rate steaks from a Philadelphia butcher. We should all be writing notes to DiBruno's.

---

Anyway, this afternoon I'll add more on our strip club outing; but for now, I'll say that, yow, it was fun.

[Andrew's arteries: boo! not for us!]

Oh, shut up, you.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[mrbigjas]

The problem in Philly is retailers need to buy better meat.

Yes Wells does not sell to the public, they sell to restaurants and hotels.

They will sell to grocery stores like say Dibruno but I imagine there has to be enough interest.

They already have a huge investment in the meat shop, maybe you ought to send them a note.

i do believe i will do just that. do we know where they get their meat now?

[cdh]

Sorry, folks.  I could have called my goof establishment the SPOOFord-Luxe, but I thought that would be too obvious. 

I didn't think telling a maitre 'd that one was there for a meat tasting could be taken seriously, either.  Honest.

Clearly a joke... but unclear as to your perspective and intentions in telling it.

Then I added a story about a practical joke.  Perhaps you don't find a gaggle of double bassists and their instruments milling around at Hollywood and Vine very funny.

But isn't Hollywood & Vine where Capitol Records studios actually are? Or have variations of this joke become so ingrained in the culture that I only just think that because I've never been to Hollywood and Vine? Is it the 'hood or something?

And I really have to arrange for you to sample some of my beer sometime... maybe I could tote some along on a Pizza Club jaunt.

Thinking of beer and its derivatives- when you guys do your vinegar tasting, get in touch. I've got a couple of interesting additions for you from my own production... honey vinegar and pear cider vinegar. I'd love to hear how they fare in competition with high-end commercial products.

Edited February 9, 2007 by cdh (log)

[mrbigjas]

Yeah, the question of where a civilian can get these meats is something we talked about last night.  Basically, the answer to your question is: no.  If you want a crazy good steak, you'll have to order it from Lobel's or wherever; bend over your credit card and take it like a man; and then wait for it to be delivered. 

it's not the credit card that kills me, it's the waiting.

damn my TV-created need for immediate gratification! damn it to hell!

[philadining]

(left to right)

1. DiBrunos Dry Aged (Strip) Rib Eye; 2. Wells CAB (Black Angus); 3. Wells Dry Aged Choice

4. Esposito 21day Dry Aged Strip; 5. Harry Ochs Dry Aged Porterhouse

6. Whole Foods (Dry Aged) Strip; 7. Wolfe Neck Rib Eye

8. Peter Luger’s Dry Aged Porterhouse; 9. Lobels 6w Dry Aged Porterhouse

Steaks were all cooked the same way:

Halen-Mon Salt, Leblanc Grapeseed Oil

Black Carbon Steel French Pans.

Cooked:

1. DiBrunos Dry Aged (Strip) Rib Eye

2. Wells CAB (Black Angus)

3. Wells Dry Aged Choice

4. Esposito 21day Dry Aged Strip

5. Harry Ochs Dry Aged Porterhouse

6. Whole Foods (Dry Aged) Str

7. Wolfe Neck Rib Eye

8. Peter Luger’s Dry Aged Porterhouse

9. Lobels 6w Dry Aged Porterhouse

French fries to cleanse the palate (not really, we just ate them afterwards....)

bacon and eggs for dessert.

comments to follow.

Edited February 9, 2007 by philadining (log)

[Andrew Fenton]

it's not the credit card that kills me, it's the waiting. 

damn my TV-created need for immediate gratification!  damn it to hell!

So true. But in my case, I just blame it on a general lack of planning and short attention span. If only my inability to plan out dinner in advance was the worst manifestation...

edit: this one's for you, jas:

Moe: Oh, boy!  The deep fryer's here.  Heh heh, I got it used from the navy.  You can flash-fry a buffalo in forty seconds.

Homer: Forty seconds?  But I want it now!

Edited February 9, 2007 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[Tim Dolan]

That looks absolutely phenomenal. Quick question, did you let the Lobel's steak rest standing up like that for any particular reason?

[Andrew Fenton]

That looks absolutely phenomenal.  Quick question, did you let the Lobel's steak rest standing up like that for any particular reason?

well, this way makes it look a tiny climber planted a flag on the top of the Matterhorn! (Or if you prefer, the Meaterhorn.)

[I_call_the_duck]

I can just smell the steaks as I'm looking at these pictures.

Forgive me if this is a silly question, but why was the Harry Ochs steak different in color? At first I thought it was the cut, but comparing it to other porterhouses, it looks less red than the others. Is it because of the way they're aged?

edited to add: oops--I meant 7. Wolfe Neck Rib Eye

Edited February 9, 2007 by I_call_the_duck (log)

[dagordon]

Just to add to what's been said...

I agree with V's ranking of the top steaks:

1. Lobel

2. Wolfe Neck

3. Luger

4. Wells CAB

I don't know where to put the Esposito. It needs its own separate category. It tasted like no other beef that I've ever had. That dry-aged, cheesy funk to the EXTREME. But, I think several of us agreed, it wasn't particularly beefy. It was really just that funk. Given V's abilities I have absolutely no doubt that he's absolutely correct that it would function perfectly in certain dishes. Suffice it to say that several of us really couldn't eat very much of it by itself, and it's NOT at all what you think of when you think of steakhouse steak.

I'm also genuinely curious as to why the Esposito tasted like that. It can't be the length of aging, which was apparently 21 days; the Lobel's, for example, was aged 6 weeks, and didn't have nearly that much funk!

V was, however way too generous to the Wells Dry Aged Choice and the Ochs. These were, well how to put this, bad steaks.

The Ochs porterhouse was, by consensus, one of the sorriest looking pieces of meat ever. It was an oddly light color. And there were these unpleasant chunks of gristle throughout the meat. The picture is too flattering, I think the other side of the steak was not as attractive.

The Di Bruno's steak (which was a ribeye, despite the fact that it was sold as a strip), the Wells Choice, the Ochs, and the Whole Foods steaks were all varying levels of not good. They were made edible only by the terrific crust that V had achieved. The defects here were a thorough lack of flavor, both beefy flavor and dry aged flavor, a grainy texture to the meat in the case of the Di Bruno's and the Whole Foods steaks and a tough, gristly texture in the case of the Ochs.

The Lobel's steak was, well, flawless. It had the perfect balance of beefy and dry-aged flavors and a wonderful texture. The filet, which we had after the comparison tasting, was also a revelation. (Mr. Fenton's reaction was particularly amusing -- he had just finished saying that he didn't particularly care for filet, and when he tasted the Lobel's filet began to make all sorts of funny expressions and sounds.)

The Wolfe Neck ribeye was a superb steak -- my tasting notes included "flavors of Serrano ham fat". And the Wells CAB was really quite good. Wells is right here in Philly. There's no excuse for consumers around here not having easy access to this stuff.

Oh, and we each had a bite of a Lobel's Kurobuta rib chop before the tasting. It was outstanding. This might be one of the best values at Lobel's, it's less than $20/pound.

Edited February 9, 2007 by dagordon (log)

[dagordon]

I can just smell the steaks as I'm looking at these pictures.

Forgive me if this is a silly question, but why was the Harry Ochs steak different in color?  At first I thought it was the cut, but comparing it to other porterhouses, it looks less red than the others.  Is it because of the way they're aged?

←

Not at all a silly question. Yes, it was an oddly light color. Dry aging actually makes the meat darker. Why it had this color is anyone's guess.

[Tim Dolan]

How much did each of the steaks cost?

[philadining]

That looks absolutely phenomenal.  Quick question, did you let the Lobel's steak rest standing up like that for any particular reason?

←

That did look a little weird didn't it? No, it didn't rest that way, it was about to be sliced and portioned for the test, and was up on end to make cutting off the bone easier, and I just snapped the pic as it was, to avoid touching it.

A couple of quick thoughts: while a test like this isn't going to be perfect, I think we did fairly effectively answer a couple of questions.

1) dagordon's original question about whether one can get a serious world-class steak at a retail shop in Philly? Sadly, the answer seems to be no.

2) the resulting question: is there really that big of a difference between what we can actually get at retail here, and some of the legendary purveyors, like Lobels? I think it's safe to say that our panel says there is. The Lobel's steak, unidentified on our plates (we did not know which chunks of meat were from where as we were tasting them,) was unanimously agreed to be the best piece of meat of the test, and pretty far out in front.

3) the cascading question from that conclusion: OK it's better, but is it worth the money? I don't think there's ever going to be an absolute answer for that, value is a very personal concept. The Lobel's steak was clearly superior. It was also crazy expensive. The Luger steak was quite good too, usually ranking #2 or 3 in people's assessments, but it was also very expensive.

4) can you do justice to a superior piece of meat without the 18-bazillion degree broilers they have at steakhouses? The answer seems to be yes: proper cooking in a black steel pan develops an excellent crust, proper resting evens-out doneness and redistributes juices. The only problem on might have is ventilation: that initial sear does create some smoke.

5) what we will now refer to as the mrbigjas conundrum: I want a steak TONIGHT!!! What do I do? I'm not sure we came up with an answer to that. There are a couple of intangibles - the Whole Foods steak was extremely disappointing, not appearing to be dry-aged at all, and displaying almost no marbling whatsoever. dagordon says he's gotten better steaks than that at Whole Foods, so perhaps that wasn't a good sample. But the purchaser went in and asked for the best dry-aged strip steak, in fact asked for a special cut because the ones in the case were too thin, and that's what he got. This is what Whole Foods sold us that day. Side-by-side with the other steaks, this one tasted watery, blah, rubbery, nothingy.

The same thing is true for Harry Och's, the purchaser asked for a custom-cut dry-aged porterhouse, and what we got was rather sad. Of course there's some possibility that on another day, either of those places could offer a better piece of meat. But on this random day, they didn't represent too well. Side-by-side, in this blind tasting, we all seemed to agree that this steak just wasn't very good - not much flavor, mealy texture, gristley.

Esposito's is a retail operation, and it's very possible that one could do the same as our purchaser did - walk in and ask for a cut from a dry-aged primal they have hanging in back. I don't know if they generally have minimums or if it's always available. Next time someone's down there, ask!

That said, while I trust V's opinion that that particular steak would be good with a sauce or other accompaniments, as we tasted it plain, I found it initially intriguing, then a little odd, then downright unpleasant. Others liked it a lot. It had a very strong aged taste, what we all seemed to agree could be described as a "cheesey funk." I think it comes down to personal preference here - I think a little of that vibe would be nice as an accent, but found this particular expression of those flavors to be too much.

The Well's Angus was extremely good, and one has to wonder why there's no retail operation selling this meat. Maybe there's really not enough of it to go around, and restaurants are getting first crack at it. But the free-market would seem to imply that someone might be willing to overcharge us civilians for a few of those steaks. I think I'd be willing to overpay from time to time if I could walk-up and buy one today, without having to plan my steak eating days in advance. As implied above, a place like DiBrunos really ought to look into something like that. The steak we sampled from their meat department wasn't that bad, but wasn't great either, and didn't stand up very well to the other samples in this test. (oh, and as dagordon pointed out, wasn't actually the cut of meat that was requested!)

6) After overindulging on huge piles of meat, what's the best thing in the world to eat? ....the answer, my friends, is papas fritas. Oh, and a classic frisée salad ain't bad either.

A couple of other random thoughts: the Lobel's and Luger's steaks were my favorites, displaying a flavor and texture superior to the other samples. But I was surprised how much it did come down to texture, which I can assume is correlated somewhat to marbling, and probably to the aging too. And the flavors were very sophisticated, far more interesting than the one-dimensional (or zero-dimensional) taste of the others, but they weren't funky or gamey or even overtly mineraly as I had been expecting. For better or worse, I'm sure there's variation here too, perhaps another sample would be different, displaying more or less of those traits.

And you know how you thought you were bored by filet mignon, that it was just this soft, flavorless piece of meat? Try the filet part of a Lobel's porterhouse. Yowza.

I'm sure there's more to explore here, and perhaps we should take another run at the local issue. Maybe we try again with Whole Foods, add Wegman's, some other local sources and see what's best that IS available at local retail.

Edited February 9, 2007 by philadining (log)

[philadining]

How much did each of the steaks cost?

←

I think this is an excellent question, and we should certainly post the per pound prices, and just to scare the crap out of people, the total price of the Lobel's and Luger's....

[dagordon]

V, PM me the cost of the steaks other than the Lobel's and Luger's and I'll add them to this post:

Cost of Steaks:

8. Luger's: $34/lb, excluding shipping; $42/lb, including shipping (you can't buy an individual steak; they only sell "meat packages")

I ordered meat package B, so the cost of our steak (including half of the shipping cost) was $98

http://www.peterluger.com/ourmeats.cfm

9. Lobel's: $43/lb

The one we had was $95

http://www.lobels.com

[guzzirider]

I was hoping Wegman's would have been sampled as well. Perhaps next time.

All in all, I'm saddened by these results. It just seems that for the time being, us mere mortals are S.O.L. For me, planning in advance and ordering from Lobel's wouldn't be much of a problem. The question I have now, however, is: how will a mail-order Lobel's steak compare to one picked up fresh in NY?

Oh, I believe someone else inquired about this as well, but I'd like some details on the cooking method as well. I'm assuming they were strictly pan-seared, with no roasting involved, right? Also, what sort of advantage does the carbon steel pan have over cast iron, which is what I would normally use for this?

__Jason

Edited February 9, 2007 by guzzirider (log)

[docsconz]

Wow, this is food porn at its most prurient!

One thought- Though the strip comes from the porterhouse, comparing a strip directly to a porterhouse or a filet to that from a porterhouse is not exactly comparing like samples. There is a potentially significant variable as the porterhouse is cooked bone-in while its offspring are not. The bone conceivably adds more than a little flavor to its surrounding protein.

One observation - these steaks are all supposed to be dry-aged for a significant period of time, yet only a few look dry-aged (i.e. have that color darker than bright red). The Wolf's Neck Rib-eye appears to me to have the look of wet-aging.

[dagordon]

The question I have now, however, is: how will a mail-order Lobel's steak compare to one picked up fresh in NY?

From personal experience -- just as good. When I picked up the steak yesterday at Lobel's I told them that we wanted something really special, aged as long as possible. They said that they normally age their stuff 4-6 weeks, and gave me something aged 6 weeks. You can specify when you place an online order exactly what you want in the comments section.