April Whites article in Philly Mag-

matthewj · January 9, 2007

I just read the article by April white in the new Philly magazine on-line!

I love it, great article. Let's get some feed back positive and negative comments are welcome

rlibkind · January 9, 2007

Here's the link:

KatieLoeb · January 9, 2007

I was wondering when the online link would be available. Thanks matthewj!

I was flattered to be in the company I was mentioned in the same breath with. And in case you were wondering who was bitchin' about no ingredient focused cocktail bars... :rolleyes:

I loved the article and thought April hit alot of bases with it. I'm also glad to know I'm not the only one that thinks it's a damned shame there aren't any Italian restaurants that are worthy of national attention somewhere in between Ralph's and Vetri. Why do all the other big cities have a bunch of mid-level trattoria that are fairly priced and serve excellent food and with the dozens of Italian restaurants in Philly, no one seems to have hit the bullseye? Hopefully that's soon to change when Vetri's Osteria opens...

Andrew Fenton · January 9, 2007

Agreed with Katie, and with the article, about the lack of Italian restaurants in Philadelphia. But I'd make one change to her formulation. She says, "the city needs more good Italian restaurants." That's kind of vague-- she's basing it on price, which isn't useful IMO-- and I'd say, instead, that Philly needs more regional Italian restaurants. (If Osteria has a regional focus-- on any region-- I'll be there every week.)

As to the current dining scene, White mentions the stereotypical Yet Another BYOB; I'll see that and raise her Yet Another Small-Plates Restaurant. If I were the all-powerful restaurant deity, I'd happily sacrifice both of those in favor of a focus on less creative food-- that is, on traditional, regionally- and culturally-based food traditions from all over. And yeah, Italian would be a good place to start.

JohnL · January 9, 2007

I just read the article by April white in the new Philly magazine on-line!
I love it, great article. Let's get some feed back positive and negative comments are welcome
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Ya know, all this agonizing and self analysis is, as I see it, where the real problem lies.

Philadelphia needs to stop wondering and worrying why it is not New York or San Francisco (or Chicago or...) and relax. This seems to be about self identity--being comfortable in one's own skin.

If one is realistic, for a city of its size and socioeconomic make up, Philadelphia has done quite well in the restaurant/food department. If one must make comparisons, I would say Boston is more appropriate than San Francisco or New York or Chicago. In fact, most of the comparisons Ms White makes are in My opinion, faulty. She doesn't assess most of these cities accurately in terms of their food scenes. Rather, she seems to look at other cities with a rather myopic view basically agonizing that Philadelphia does not have "cutting edge, destination" restaurants or enough really good Italian places (which is it?). The fact is, there are only a handful of truly "cutting edge" restaurants (Alinea, French Laundry/ Per Se, Jean Georges etc etc) in the country. It is also a fact that there really aren't any cities that are places where people travel simply because of the food scene. Yes, there are a handful of foodies who will make the trip for a perfect whatever dish or will travel long distances for food alone but again this is a small and fickle crowd. For the vast majority of folks, food is only a part of the reason for travel, and a rather small one at that. To talk of Philadelphia as a "destination" city one really needs to look at all the reasons most people travel and assess how Philadelphia stacks up.

I would say, that Chicago has long gotten over its "second city" and "toddlin town" designations and has accepted itself for what it is rather than agonize over what it is not. Philadelphia needs to do the same.

As for Ms White's worry that Philly is simply not dominating any one category of restaurant, I would offer that currently there is no Spanish (Tapas etc) restaurant on the Eastern seaboard that equals Amada. (there is nothing of its caliber in New York).

There are many truly fine restaurants and one can have a very nice dining experience--let's face it, Philadelphia is a fine city to eat in from local stuff like cheese steak sandwiches and soft pretzels to high end cuisines and everything in between. So what's the problem? :wink:

Buckethead · January 9, 2007

As to the current dining scene, White mentions the stereotypical Yet Another BYOB; I'll see that and raise her Yet Another Small-Plates Restaurant. If I were the all-powerful restaurant deity, I'd happily sacrifice both of those in favor of a focus on less creative food--
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Well, I wouldn't, a lot of those places are excellent restaurants. Unless you mean you just want to sacrifice the me-too imitators. And of course, the main reason we have so many BYOBs is the high cost of a liquor license, which is a huge expense for a husband-and-wife operation. It's certainly not because restaurant owners hate charging 400% markups on wine.

wkl · January 9, 2007

we've kinda been down this road before with a couple threads last year i believe.

to rehash an old, but interesting argument, is the byob culture holding philly back from getting out the rut ms white refers to?

don't chefs need the income from liqour sales to be successful enough to try new ventures?

if your a talented young chef just out of the cia, or ready to open your own place, for example, do you come to philly? or do you go somewhere where you can get a liqour license at a reasonable cost and sell wine/beer/liqour to help the bottom line? i honestly don't know the answer to this.

vadouvan? chef lean?

Andrew Fenton · January 9, 2007

As to the current dining scene, White mentions the stereotypical Yet Another BYOB; I'll see that and raise her Yet Another Small-Plates Restaurant. If I were the all-powerful restaurant deity, I'd happily sacrifice both of those in favor of a focus on less creative food--
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Well, I wouldn't, a lot of those places are excellent restaurants. Unless you mean you just want to sacrifice the me-too imitators. And of course, the main reason we have so many BYOBs is the high cost of a liquor license, which is a huge expense for a husband-and-wife operation. It's certainly not because restaurant owners hate charging 400% markups on wine.

Oh, I don't object to BYOB per se (and let's be honest, even an all-powerful deity couldn't break the almighty power of the PLCB); my problem is with the mass of cookie-cutter BYOBs serving very similar, and similarly unexceptional, food. Not that there aren't standouts, but I wouldn't mind seeing that herd culled a bit.

As to small-plates: I can think of maybe three that I'd consider really good, and several more that just aren't all that interesting. It's those others that I'd like to see replaced by regional Chinese, or French, or Italian, or what have you.

Of course, the above is just a combination of personal preference and idle fantasy, to take it for what it's worth.

JohnL · January 9, 2007

we've kinda been down this road before with a couple threads last year i believe.
to rehash an old, but interesting argument, is the byob culture holding philly back from getting out the rut ms white refers to?
don't chefs need the income from liqour sales to be successful enough to try new ventures?
if your a talented young chef just out of the cia, or ready to open your own place, for example, do you come to philly? or do you go somewhere where you can get a liqour license at a reasonable cost and sell wine/beer/liqour to help the bottom line? i honestly don't know the answer to this.
vadouvan? chef lean?
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You are right this is an "old" argument.

I believe that in spite of the BYOB culture Philadelphia has done just fine. I also believe that any policy that does not promote economic growth and provide opportunity to make money is not a good thing.

Pennsylvania's liquor laws are ridiculous whatever their impact is on the restaurant scene. The state is basically operating a business for the sole purpose of making money. Money that is not being made by private citizens. In essence this is a massive taxation scheme. The rationale for opposing it is not its impact on Philadelphia's inability to have "cutting edge" restaurants. It is a legal and constitutional issue, it is plain wrong.

wkl · January 9, 2007

i think philly has done just fine also. but to take the article's point a bit further, where do you go for really "fine" dining in the city? what is philadelphia's shining star, so to speak? nyc has per se, adny, jean georges,etc. chicago, san fran, have their nationally recognized places. what's philadelphia's? have there been any new entrants in the fine dining scene? i know there is le bec, lacroix, but do these compete on a nat'l level?

JohnL · January 9, 2007

i think philly has done just fine also. but to take the article's point a bit further, where do you go for really "fine" dining in the city? what is philadelphia's shining star, so to speak? nyc has per se, adny, jean georges,etc. chicago, san fran, have their nationally recognized places. what's philadelphia's? have there been any new entrants in the fine dining scene? i know there is le bec, lacroix, but do these compete on a nat'l level?
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What exactly do you mean by "compete on a national level"?

I would say there a re a number of places in Philadelphia that "compete" quite nicely in any number of areas.

As for national recognition, a number of Philadelphia establishments have been "recognized" by national publications and critics--from Food and Wine to Gourmet and Esquire. I recall being struck by a piece on Striped Bass when it opened-- in Esquire (I believe). Bec Fin has long been recognized as one of the top restaurants in the country.

Again, I think there is a tendency among Philadelphians toward a bit of self loathing. I also believe that a lot of this is not really about the dining scene but rather about Philadelphia as a destination city in general. this is IMOP the real area of competition. It is better to look at Philadelphia in comparison to other cities in the Northeast--that's why I mentioned Boston. let's remove New York from the equation to be fair.

Philly is doing just fine.

Could Phil do better? Sure. Is the BYOB thing a major factor? Maybe.

In the end, this introspection is a good thing, it indicates that Philadelphia must have a pretty strong and healthy dining scene if people are even making an issue out of this.

mrbigjas · January 9, 2007

As to the current dining scene, White mentions the stereotypical Yet Another BYOB; I'll see that and raise her Yet Another Small-Plates Restaurant. If I were the all-powerful restaurant deity, I'd happily sacrifice both of those in favor of a focus on less creative food-- that is, on traditional, regionally- and culturally-based food traditions from all over. And yeah, Italian would be a good place to start.
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as would french. why is caribou the only non-fancy french place in town?

Holly Moore · January 9, 2007

A terrific article by April White, though please, for a while at least, no more Italian restaurants - great, bad or mediocre. Please. I'm serious. No new Italian restaurants for at least a few months.

Philadelphia, as they say about the NFL, on any given Saturday evening can keep up with New York, San Francisco or Chicago. Dragging the NFL analogy a bit further, we don't have the depth of New York. Where Philadelphia has Le Bec-Fin, New York has a number of comparable restaurants.

Maybe what Philadelphia lacks are chefs driven to perform on the national stage, or PR agencies able to take them there. Love him or hate him, Jack McDavid is the last Philadelphia chef to achieve national prominance. Nowadays Tony Luke is our most famous chef - not that there is anything wrong with that.

For the Philadelphia restaurant scene to reach the next level, our chefs need to take us there. Not in talent. We have very talented chefs. But chefs who offer exciting, compelling creativity and then, just as importantly, have the charisma and drive to effectively market that creativity on a national stage.

Of course, it wouldn't hurt if the Food Network moved its production facility to Center City Philadelphia.

Andrew Fenton · January 9, 2007

As to the current dining scene, White mentions the stereotypical Yet Another BYOB; I'll see that and raise her Yet Another Small-Plates Restaurant. If I were the all-powerful restaurant deity, I'd happily sacrifice both of those in favor of a focus on less creative food-- that is, on traditional, regionally- and culturally-based food traditions from all over. And yeah, Italian would be a good place to start.
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as would french. why is caribou the only non-fancy french place in town?

More non-fancy French? Yep, that'd be good. Though to be fair, there's Pif (for now, anyway) and St. Tropez (where I've never eaten).

I know that lots of people pooh-poohed Blue Angel, but I liked it best of the Starr joints, and miss it...

mrbigjas · January 9, 2007

when your average entree is $25 and you usually need a reservation i don't think that can be considered non-fancy, so pif is out, no matter how casual the ambiance is.

i haven't been back to st. tropez in a couple of years since service was so sketchy there for a while--and i'm not one to complain about service much. i should give it a shot again, i guess.

Yannii · January 9, 2007

i don't really agree with most of that article's contents. I don't believe philadelphia restaurants are in any kind of "rut" what-so-ever. this past year brought us so many great new restaurants. there was obviously a rebirth of spanish cuisine in this city (amada, bar ferdinand, apamate, isla ibidiza, cebu, etc...). there was a related quality tapa, or small plate trend (ansill, snackbar, amada again). new neighborhoods are developing or redeveloping (east passyunk, graduate hospital, 11th and washington, northern liberties). it's been an amazing past couple years for philadelphia restaurants. we now have an outstanding range and depth of choices (from striped bass to tony luke's). we definitely have some holes to fill, but i am confident people are working on them (shola - molecular gastronomy, katie loeb - hand crafted cocktails, starr -mid priced french bistro on the Parc, anonymous - german burlesque, me - late night gourmet salad/healthy, etc...) it is a very exciting time to be here.

on the point of plcb and such... it's lame, but i love byobs (cause i hate mark-ups and generic wine lists) so, so B it, as it were. our system, as the article sort of points out, does have a polarizing effect on opening new restaurants. either you have big capital and big investors (ala starr) or you go byob. there isn't as much middle ground thanks to the high costs of liquor licenses and such... my two cents... :raz:

ps chicago and san fran might be a little better, but who cares, we have plenty...

Edited January 9, 2007 by Yannii (log)

JasonZ · January 9, 2007

Interesting article ... and even more interesting discussion. But, if I could point out, this year, for the first time in 26 years, there will be no Book and Cook Festival in the Feb/March time frame. Apparently, too many chefs had to choose between Philadelphia and South Beach ... and headed for the fun and sun of Miami. There will be a B&C Festival ... in July ... see The Book and the Cook -- Summer ... far more regional and far quieter than ever before. So far as the national chef community is concerned, they've made their votes clear.

Perhaps instead of rehashing "old threads", we need to ask what we want to be -- great food for the locals; or to being a national presence as a recurring a recurring cuisine and culture destination ... and then what we need to do to get there. I'd point to the Aspen Food & Wine Festival; Boston's Beer and Wine Festival; Milwaukee's month-long SummerFest, and, sadly, the South Beach Food & Wine Festival to counter the argument that food destinations attract few people, don't generate income and site recognition, and don't enhance a city's reputation. Few travel to a city for a great meal ... but they'll gladly come to a city that has great culture, history, natural beauty AND great cuisine to boot.

April was right -- we are at a fork in the road -- and we need to select which path or tine we want to follow.

MarketStEl · January 9, 2007

Maybe what Philadelphia lacks are chefs driven to perform on the national stage, or PR agencies able to take them there.[...]
For the Philadelphia restaurant scene to reach the next level, our chefs need to take us there. Not in talent. We have very talented chefs. But chefs who offer exciting, compelling creativity and then, just as importantly, have the charisma and drive to effectively market that creativity on a national stage.
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Well, what about those PR people, Holly? Huh? Huh??? :raz:

Interesting article ... and even more interesting discussion. But, if I could point out, this year, for the first time in 26 years, there will be no Book and Cook Festival in the Feb/March time frame. Apparently, too many chefs had to choose between Philadelphia and South Beach ... and headed for the fun and sun of Miami. There will be a B&C Festival ... in July ... see The Book and the Cook -- Summer ... far more regional and far quieter than ever before. So far as the national chef community is concerned, they've made their votes clear.
Perhaps instead of rehashing "old threads", we need to ask what we want to be -- great food for the locals; or to being a national presence as a recurring a recurring cuisine and culture destination ... and then what we need to do to get there. I'd point to the Aspen Food & Wine Festival; Boston's Beer and Wine Festival; Milwaukee's month-long SummerFest, and, sadly, the South Beach Food & Wine Festival to counter the argument that food destinations attract few people, don't generate income and site recognition, and don't enhance a city's reputation. Few travel to a city for a great meal ... but they'll gladly come to a city that has great culture, history, natural beauty AND great cuisine to boot.
April was right -- we are at a fork in the road -- and we need to select which path or tine we want to follow.
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Hmmm...everybody passing up Philly in March for warmer climes. Quelle surprise.

So what are these people all doing in July? I thought we wanted to own the Fourth. Why not piggyback on Independence Day and see if we can't extend the holiday a bit with a culinary festival?

It's too hot to cook, you say? Aren't a lot of the Book & The Cook events indoors? Did the organizers approach the same national chefs/authors about participating in this June affair?

As for the article itself, my attitude towards it can be summed up in the opening line from Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities:

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times."

That we are on a par with Chicago and San Francisco -- having lived in Boston for a while in the late 1970s and early 1980s, and having returned there in '05, I feel comfortable saying that the dining scene here outclassed Boston's then and still does now -- and that (as Holly put it in NFLese) "on any given Saturday," we can hold our own with New York -- should make our insecure, parochial little hearts pound with joy. That we can even have an article arguing that our restaurant scene is stuck in a rut and needs some rethinking, and perhaps a push to take it to the next level (whatever "the next level" is), speaks volumes about just how good it is here.

And yet, it could be more. I don't think it's for lack of talent. Maybe it's that characteristic Philadelphian reluctance to toot one's horn too loudly? Marc Vetri could easily be where Mario Batali is with the right publicity (there's that word again). And Shola (from what I've heard) is as forward-thinking as they come, but he prefers to work his magic in small-group settings.

So maybe it really is "all PR." Care to disagree?

wkl · January 9, 2007

not sure philly is on a par with san francisco or chicago. certainly, not far behind, but i'd give the nod to either if i had to rank the three.

"Maybe it's that characteristic Philadelphian reluctance to toot one's horn too loudly? "

sandy, you obviously don't hang with many eagles fans! :raz:

MarketStEl · January 9, 2007

Adding a completely separate post to rethink a position out loud.

White does mention the "dreaded chain invasion" in her article. I'm sure you are all aware that I take a benign view of it, and as long as the audience for good food continues to expand, I will do so.

But I can see where the chain invasion might do to Philly's restaurant scene what kudzu did to the Southern landscape. If chains, with their deep pockets and large ad budgets, drive up space rent to the point where culinary entrepreneurs can't afford to open places, and if those ad barrages end up driving those who don't want to have to think too much about where to eat away from interesting local places in favor of the places they know from the TV and the mall, then yes, I need to start worrying too.

lamando · January 9, 2007

I would love to have a small wine list for my customers to choose from. I will be the first one to tell you that no byob is going to make a ton of money off just serving food. Then i would have to raise my prices to cover insurance. Right now i have a 1 million dollar coverage, you add a liquer license, and you double that. I agree with most of April's article, but the one thing i disagree with is adding another Itl. restaurant. I shouldn't be saying this because i am in the business, but other than Vetri, L'Angelo, and Melagrano. The others are just considered American Italian. You go to Italy, and you would't find veal or chicken parm. These restaurants prepare dishes that are found or close to the different regions of Italy. Sorry for the comments above, but everyone has there opinion, and i am just giving mine.

Capaneus · January 9, 2007

Couple of points: absolutely correct that to compare Philadelphia with NY, San Francisco, Chicago, is tendentious. Fairer to compare us with other East Coast cities with similar economic and geographic situations, like Boston and Washington. That comparison I believe favors us, in the main - in spite of the fact that our closeness to Manhattan is a problem they don't have to deal with.

Yes, Le Bec Fin is worthy of comparison with other haute French kitchens. I don't think it comes out on top, but it's no slouch.

And as to the whole BYOB/LCB discussion, I continuously fail to understand why only the restaurateurs' viewpoint is ably represented in these discussions. So allow me:

- There was a seriously crappy restaurant situation in Philadelphia. Then BYOBs hit, allowing an entire demographic to partake of (something like) the pleasures they could only, until then, watch through plate glass. Now, we have a booming restaurant scene which is regularly mentioned with envy in publications nationwide. Cause and effect? Can't prove it, sure, but Hell yeah!

- A related point is that customers vote with their feet (why do all you kitchen-sink libertarians ignore that set of freedoms when discussing the situation?) Not only has the boom in BYOs put into relief the longstanding obscenity of winelist prices, there is now an ensuing boom of restaurants that have learned that lesson, and are thriving, at least in part, becuse they have fairly-priced lists. Which were in rare supply until BYOB hit town in force. Again, causality? Believe it, friends and others. Market at work.

- And finally, I will grant that the price of liquor licenses distorts the market. But it is a distortion that has many advantages for consumers: last Saturday, I had a truly excellent meal at Pif. With it, I had a '99 Chapoutier CdP "Barbe Rac". In NY, that would be a $250-$300 bottle. In pre-BYO Philadelphia, that might have been a $450-and-up item. In other words, some of you might have been lucky enough to enjoy the pairing of entrecote with anchovy butter and excellent Rhone wine. But I never would have.

So, once again, I profess my abiding love for every paunchy, balding, grey-suited, grey-souled bureaucrat at the PLCB. May they prosper and multiply, and continue supplying me and like-minded drinkers with wines far above our meager deserts.

wkl · January 9, 2007

sorry, i'm a little clueless sometimes, okay alot of times, but what the heck is a "kitchen-sink libertarian"?

also, are you sure byo's would go away if the plcb went away? lots of cities have them and have a privatized liqour distribution sytems in place. chicago comes to mind.

Edited January 9, 2007 by wkl (log)

Andrew Fenton · January 9, 2007

And as to the whole BYOB/LCB discussion, I continuously fail to understand why only the restaurateurs' viewpoint is ably represented in these discussions.

Pedro, I realize that there's a wider context to your comments-- and for what it's worth, I agree with most of what you said. (I also think that complaining about the PALCB will have about as much effect as complaining about the sun rising in the east.)

But I want to drag this, kicking and screaming, back to the article, and attempt a point of clarification.

As I read White's article, "BYOB" doesn't refer to any restaurant without a liquor license, but a particular subset, described right at the beginning:

Tell me you’re opening a restaurant in Philadelphia, and I’ll tell you what it will be. It’s a BYOB, a husband-and-wife-owned storefront with a sentimental name. He’s in the miniature kitchen; she’s in the dining room with the decor straight out of the Pottery Barn catalog. The food is fresh, local; the farmers who grew the baby bok choy and raised the free-ranged chickens are listed right there at the bottom of the menu.

"BYOB" is a pretty handy shorthand for that stereotype; it's one that most of us use and recognize. As far as I can tell, White is referring to that stereotype (as was I). White's point isn't anything about the sale of alcohol in Pennsylvania, it's about a stagnation that has followed the growth of this style of restaurant over the last five or so years.

And wkl raises a good point. The PALCB doesn't control the number of liquor licenses in Philadelphia; there are also lots of liquor license-free restaurants in New Jersey.

Edited January 9, 2007 by Andrew Fenton (log)

JohnL · January 10, 2007

There are two issues here. One is Philadelphia's standing as a restaurant town and the second is the BYOB situation which is somewhat unique to Pennsylvania.

A third issue may be the impact of the PLCB on the current restaurant situation.

As an outsider (not too far outside) from New York City who has family in Philadelphia and has spen quite a bit of time there, I can say the restaurant situation is fine. As noted earlier by me and others, Philadelphia should be compared to similar sized cities in the Northeast. New York should be excluded. I have never had a problem in dining very well in Philadelphia and in Amada, I believe Philadelphia has a very special restaurant. (we do not have one as good in NYC and some very well traveled foodies I know have declared it world class).

As for the PLCB, the state control of liquor to this degree--government actually running a consumer business is fundamentally wrong. In reality, I believe that a free and open market would lead to greater selection and better pricing. (I will not even get into the absolutely ridiculous Flood tax).

There is a possibilty, worth considering, that the proliferation of BYOB's has some benefits to some consumers. I do not believe that it benefits the industry. It does not benefit visitors to Philadelphia for the most part, who do not want to scrounge around for a state owned liquor store at dinner time.

I believe that Ms White is making a case that if Philadelphia were to have more revenue sources available to restaurateurs and the ability to offer visitors world class beverage service there may be an improvement in the restaurant scene, possibly more competition and greater depth in all types of restaurants.

I may be wrong, but I believe this is the case she is making. Right now, a chain like Capital Grill or one of the Starr Empire or Bec Fin are successful in attacting the business and tourist crowd but would it be beneficial overall if more establishments had a good chance to compete with them on a financial basis. I also doubt that many of the more successful BYOB only places--a possible benefit of the PLCB situation would go out of business or suddenly become expensive.

Anyway, I have always enjoyed eating in Philadelphia, I often boarded the Amtrak to New York with an assortment of Hoagies and Cheese steaks--after lunch and or dinner at one of many fine restaurants. IMOP Philly does just fine in the competitive dept. Could it be better? Maybe. Even New York City could improve its dining scene--the addition of an equal to Amada would be a plus!

Edited January 10, 2007 by JohnL (log)

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