Are Those Really Heirloom Tomatoes?

[jayt90]

if you can't tell the difference between Heirloom tomatoes and regular then just buy canned. Same with grass fed beef. Even grass fed that is finished on corn for 30 or 120 days. Any animal that had been grazing will show yellow in the fat. They have consumed a lot more Niacin and you can taste it! It will not eat as soft as an animal raised in the fed lots but it will have more flavor or a different flavor, depending upon if you like that increased niacin. And again, I say if you can't tell the difference then don't bother wasting your money...save the good stuff for the rest of us.

There is a difference and it is worth the extra effort and money!

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What if certain canned tomatoes are heirloom, protected by breed and area of growth, like San Marzano?

Frankly, I have had many fresh but non-heirloom tomatoes with excellent flavour. The most surprising came from a Portuguese back yard gardener, who saves his beefstake seeds from year to year (not supposed to ) and can beat the pants off of anything from the market.

Yellow beef fat is another matter: An older animal will have darker, yellower fat than the yearlings we usually see in stores. Grass may produce the same colour fat, but who's to know when it's displayed on the shelf?

[JohnL]

if you can't tell the difference between Heirloom tomatoes and regular then just buy canned. Same with grass fed beef. Even grass fed that is finished on corn for 30 or 120 days. Any animal that had been grazing will show yellow in the fat. They have consumed a lot more Niacin and you can taste it! It will not eat as soft as an animal raised in the fed lots but it will have more flavor or a different flavor, depending upon if you like that increased niacin. And again, I say if you can't tell the difference then don't bother wasting your money...save the good stuff for the rest of us.

There is a difference and it is worth the extra effort and money!

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What if certain canned tomatoes are heirloom, protected by breed and area of growth, like San Marzano?

Frankly, I have had many fresh but non-heirloom tomatoes with excellent flavour. The most surprising came from a Portuguese back yard gardener, who saves his beefstake seeds from year to year (not supposed to ) and can beat the pants off of anything from the market.

Yellow beef fat is another matter: An older animal will have darker, yellower fat than the yearlings we usually see in stores. Grass may produce the same colour fat, but who's to know when it's displayed on the shelf?

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"Naming" or labeling produce and meat etc can really get out of hand and become confusing.

In the end a label is not a guarantee of quality.

It can help guide a consumer somewhat.

Since we are talking about produce there are many variables

other than the type or brand--the grower or producer and the techniques they employ

and the weather are two at least as far as tomatoes are concerned.

I am also not sure about assigning value to a specific brand or type.

Grass fed better than grain fed or heirloom better than ......

I would agree there are differences in flavor.

[Blue_Egg_Farmer]

I think the bigger question here is, does the label on your food accurately describe what it is?

How many folks here have actually been to the farm where your food comes from?

If the beef says grass fed, have you seen the actual cattle in the field before they were processed? If they were being raised in cramped feed lots being feed hay and corn and having to be given antibotics routinely that would still constitute being grass fed and organic, how would you know unless you visited that farm.

If the eggs say from cage free hens did you visit that farm to see if the hens run free in the field, to scratch and peck at whatever they please? They could be from hens that still never get to see the sun or go outside, but instead of being in a cage they are packed to the walls in a little barn.

If the fish says it was caught wild in the ocean and not farm raised did you go to Alaska to make sure?

If any of your food says it is organic, how do you really know?

Trust what is written on the package?

That is what large corporations want you to do, and at the same time they are watering down all those wholesome organic rules.

There is so much creative packaging , pretty pictures of cows in fields and fancy wording out there, all of which is mean't to pacify and confuse even the best non farm visiting shopper, that you need to be your own detective some times.

So at least for me it seems that if you would like an organically grown heirloom tomato or even a non heirloom tomato, free of pesticides and herbicides or beef that has truely been grass fed and has lived it life as humanely as possible the best thing to do would be grow it yourself that way you know exactly what went into it.

The second best thing to do is make friends with a local small farmer and visit him often, let him show you how he raises food items, and if you are enjoying his foods do not forget to tell him what a good job he is doing.

Your relation ship will be symbiotic, the customer will get the quality food he wants and feel secure in the knowledge that it is actually what it is supposed to be, the farmer will recieve income from the customers purchase to help him purchase the items he needs to keep the farm running and give him a good living wage so that he wants to keep farming.

Edited August 6, 2006 by Blue_Egg_Farmer (log)

[JohnL]

I think the bigger question here is,  does the label on your food accurately describe what it is?

How many folks here have actually been to the farm where your food comes from?

If the beef says grass fed, have you seen the actual cattle in the field before they were processed? If they were being raised in cramped feed lots being feed hay and corn and having to be given antibotics routinely that would still constitute being grass fed and organic,  how would you know unless you visited that farm.

If the eggs say from cage free hens did you visit that farm to see if the hens run free in the field, to scratch and peck at whatever they please? They could be from hens that still never get to see the sun or go outside, but instead of being in a cage they are packed to the walls in a little barn.

If the fish says it was caught wild in the ocean and not farm raised did you go to Alaska to make sure?

If any of your food says it is organic, how do you really know?

Trust what is written on the package?

That is what large corporations want you to do, and at the same time they are watering down all those wholesome organic rules.

There is so much creative packaging , pretty pictures of cows in fields and fancy wording out there, all of which is mean't to pacify and confuse even the best non farm visiting shopper, that you need to be your own detective some times.

So at least for me it seems that  if you would like an organically grown  heirloom tomato or even a non heirloom tomato, free of pesticides and herbicides or beef that has truely been grass fed and has lived it life as humanely as possible the best thing to do would be grow it yourself that way you know exactly what went into it.

The second best thing to do is make friends with a local small farmer and visit him often, let him show you how he raises food items, and if you are enjoying his foods do not forget to tell him what a good job he is doing.

Your relation ship will be symbiotic, the customer will get the quality food he wants and feel secure in the knowledge that it is actually what it is supposed to be, the farmer will recieve income from the customers purchase to help him purchase the items he needs to keep the farm running and give him a good living wage so that he wants to keep farming.

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This view is way too cynical even for me!

Though you have touched upon exactly what is clouding the issue at hand.

It is all about definitions.

For example regarding beef:

You explain that quality to you means "truly been grass fed" --from an animal that, "has lived its life as humanely as possible."

Just try to define each of these terms! The ongoing debate over the USDA attempts to establish some order here are testimony to the difficulty (I believe impossibility) of ever completing the task with even minimal agreement among concerned parties.

For me, quality means that the beef tastes good.

As I see it, the confusion revolves around definitions like "organic" and "grass fed" and "natural" and on and on.

Non of which guarantees anything re: taste.

And as for quality--well depends on what your definition of quality is.

Just as one can find a steak labeled choice that is tastier than one labeled prime, a hothouse tomato that is tastier than an "heirloom" tomato, lettuce from a large farm that uses pesticides vs one grown on a small organic farm (I'd love to see the definitions of large farm and small farm--as well as for family owned farm--remember Ford is a Family owned operation).

Grading systems often leave something to be desired too--often second growth Bordeaux is better tasting than first growth etc.

It isn't big corporations and their advertising that are necc the problem here. It is the small (smaller) operations attempting to convince us consumers that smaller is better, grass fed is better, organic is better.....

Everyone has an advertising/marketing claim.

From the slick advertising of Agway and General Mills to the "aw shucks" hand printed signs used by Fred your "local" (another one of these pesky definitions) "family" farmer to "Pete and Gerry's" organic free range omega three natural healthy eggs.

Hence debates between Whole Foods (Mackey) and health food (oops another definition needed) proponents (there's a nifty thread here at eGullet) and other exposes of the so called health food industry (yeah all those small family farmers add up to one pretty big industry--oh no! here we are with "big" and "small" again).

As for me.

Thank the Lord for the FDA and the USDA et al--for all their faults--and there are plenty--at least they are trying to inject some sanity into food labeling.

Thanks also, to Merriam Webster--I will stick with their lexicon for my definitions. (even though they are not often perfectly clear).

Most of all--thanks for my own taste buds.

While I applaud and always try to try (taste) foods from many sources big and small and while I do have an appreciation for artisinal products and am concerned that my food be healthful and wholesome (whatever that means)--most important to me is that my food tastes good!

Quality to me means tasting two tomatoes side by side blind and selecting the better tasting one regardless of how it was grown, who grew it (or how large or small an operation they run) or where it was grown or what its name is or brand or what kind of label it has or what kind of packaging (if any) or.....

[Blue_Egg_Farmer]

Ok that it cool, good tasting food.

All the who, what, where and when of how you aquired that good tasting food not a concern, end of discussion.

However if you are interested in knowing what exactly you are eating, where your food came from, and what has been sprinkled or has not been sprinkled on your food, then the only positive why to know is to grow it yourself or start visiting local farms and making local farmers your buddy.

[Alex]

I'd bet a bushel of beefsteaks that these are the genuine article, and tasty to boot. (Link goes to a .pdf download, moderately lengthy for dial-up users.)

[JohnL]

Ok that it cool, good tasting food.

All the who, what, where and when of how you aquired that good tasting food not a concern, end of discussion.

However if you are interested in knowing what exactly you are eating, where your food came from,  and what has been sprinkled or has not been  sprinkled on your food, then the only positive why to know is to grow it yourself or start visiting local farms and making local farmers your buddy. 

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I was being a bit facetious.

Sure it is important to "know" where your food comes from.

On the other hand, things have gotten far too complicated to the point of absurdity.

It is not just big corporations (agribusiness if you will) but the whole health food, whole food, slow food.....and on and on--

movements have spawned a complex debate over how food is produced and a set of terms that

even its proponents are arguing over. (see Pollan vs Mackey). They have also muddied the waters in assigning quality and

In the end, I find that we are may be in danger of losing sight over what I feel is the single most important aspect to any food--taste!

There are far too many agendas complicating things. The politics of food.

Somewhere each consumer needs to balance things out on their own. (as do producers of food).

So "heirloom" is in the hopper with "grass fed" and "organic" and a zillion other terms which do not necessarily have anything to do with flavor. However the proponents are equating these terms with "better" or "higher quality" when in fact, they are what they are (if the proponents can even agree on a definition).

If I get a really great tasting tomato I am naturally curious as to who produced it and how and where it came from--I am not stupid--I wanna repeat my nice tomato experience!

But labeling the tomato as "organic" or "heirloom" or whatever is simply marketing to me as are brands like "ugly tomatoes" or "Bluebell farms" --

Just like "peeky toe crab" or "dayboat scallops" or--the list goes on and on!

I do have some trust that the FDA and the USDA are trying to do their best to ensure truth in advertising (this is an extremely difficult task) and I assume that the "heirloom" tomato is really an "heirloom" but these are all secondary to me---in the end it just has to taste good!

[Heidi the Pilgrim]

i optimistically ordered an "heirloom tomato salad" ($12!) at a new place we tried last night. figured, well, it's nearly august--let's see what they got. sigh. the tomatoes were certainly not heirloom varieties--beefsteak at best...and they were crisp. (i cannot abide a pink, crispy tomato!)...well, there were two slices of yellow tomato...but if that one was "heirloom", i'll eat....that tomato. very disappointing. taught me to remember to be skeptical!

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Hey - nice eggs - I want THOSE kind of chickens.

Heirloom seems to be trendy these days, and it sounds like the salad you got was nothing of the kind. Ripe tomatoes are a dime a dozen at this time of year, no need for crispy, or even pink. I grew 12 different varieties of tomato this year, all but one "heirloom", and they are far superior to anything I've had from a store. Then again, they're picked ripe, and not gassed. And mine are way prettier colors.

[PamelaF]

The San Francisco Chronicle also covered heirloom produce this week.

Interesting article and a few nice recipes.

[Kent D]

Heirloom tomatoes may be interesting, and dress up the plate, but ultimately they're a breed of tomato no longer widely grown because of their indeterminate vining, lack of disease resistance or propensity to crack or disfigure, or plain difficulty to grow. You might as well call them "Grandpa's tomatoes". Hybridization has bred out most of the characteristics that most home tomato growers didn't want, making for a more pleasing crop. Homegrown hybrid tomatoes are just as tasty, if not tastier than many of the heirloom varieties, except for Cherokee Purple heirlooms, if you can get them to grow they're INCREDIBLE. My aren't doing anything this summer -- too many 100-degree days and nighttime temperatures in the 80s. All my tomatoes are the size of golf balls.

Oh, and if you want to grow heirlooms, and don't want to mess with seeds, I actually ordered plants off of Ebay this spring. They came packed 4 plants to the standard USPS mailer box, and once I removed them from the box and splashed a little water on them, they perked right up.

And to stay on-topic, I wouldn't get hung up on menu designations like "heirloom" or "organic" or "free-range" without knowing the restaurant and its suppliers. I certainly wouldn't pay extra for those terms without a level of trust in the purveyor.

[Ohba]

And to stay on-topic, I wouldn't get hung up on menu designations like "heirloom" or "organic" or "free-range" without knowing the restaurant and its suppliers. I certainly wouldn't pay extra for those terms without a level of trust in the purveyor.

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I agree. Those descriptions don't even belong on a menu. If it's good enough, the food should be able to speak for itself. If you absolutely need to know more, you can always ask. The word "heirloom" is valid in terms of the seeds and the plant variety, but that should be of interest primarily to the grower. I don't believe a diner's experience is greatly enriched by knowing that the tomato is heirloom any more than it would be by being informed of the specific variety that goes into the salad or pasta sauce.

[Heidi the Pilgrim]

Homegrown hybrid tomatoes are just as tasty, if not tastier than many of the heirloom varieties, except for Cherokee Purple heirlooms, if you can get them to grow they're INCREDIBLE. My aren't doing anything this summer -- too many 100-degree days and nighttime temperatures in the 80s. All my tomatoes are the size of golf balls. 

I have never had luck with the big heirlooms, never got even one Cherokee the year I tried them. The smaller ones and cherries are on fire - and they never took off until we had a heat wave - go figure.

[suseyblue]

I've not had luck with Cherokee or Pruden's Purple in years of growing, but Black Krim has been reliable for me in the humid South.

I agree, most homegrown hybrids are fully as delicious as their 'heirloom' counterparts, but 'Black Krim' is well worth the trouble.

I am 800 miles from my tomato crop. Not to mention the red sweet corn & fresh eggs (I am having to make Royal Icing with store eggs, bleah I don't even want to discuss the salad.). Nice vacation timing. (However, I do have a lovely rum selection .)

[Heidi the Pilgrim]

I've not had luck with Cherokee or Pruden's Purple in years of growing, but Black Krim has been reliable for me in the humid South.

I agree, most homegrown hybrids are fully as delicious as their 'heirloom' counterparts, but 'Black Krim' is well worth the trouble.

I am 800 miles from my tomato crop.  Not to mention the red sweet corn & fresh eggs (I am having to make Royal Icing with store eggs, bleah I don't even want to discuss the salad.). Nice vacation timing. (However, I do have a lovely rum selection .)

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Maybe this will cheer you up, Susey. I just picked (and picked and picked) tomatoes and beans. There's a Striped Roman, Wonderlight, orange cherry, supersweets, black pearl, yellow and red pears and 4th of July, and my purple beans as well. The colors just kill me.

[suseyblue]

Oh, those are gorgeous. (I forgot all about my purple Romano beans, dang it!)

I love the striped ones- how are they holding up as Romas? All my Tigerellas/Mr Stripeys struggle with virus issues. The white ones are coolness, too- a pizza bianca with them is just pazzo, eh? Too much.

[Heidi the Pilgrim]

Oh, those are gorgeous. (I forgot all about my purple Romano beans, dang it!)

I love the striped ones- how are they holding up as Romas? All my Tigerellas/Mr Stripeys struggle with virus issues. The white ones are coolness, too- a pizza bianca with them is just pazzo, eh? Too much.

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These beans are royal burgundy - what variety of purple Romanos did you grow? I grew yellow Marvel of Venice pole beans, they're ok, but I'd be willing to try something else.

The striped ones are fab, but I haven't had enough to make anything with, so I've just been eating them in sandwiches. They came from Territorial Seed, I believe. I just learned about the white ones this year, and I'm dying to try them - do you have cherries or big ones?

Truth be told, my fascination with different colors of cherries stem from Martha Stewart's recipe for Tomato Cobbler - it looks so fantastic with different colors in it that I wanted one of everything. So far, not disappointed.

[MarketStEl]

This is sort of like a lot of designer clothing lines where 'you're paying for the name.'

I shelled out $6 on Friday for a huge (about 1.5 lb), absolutely gorgeous Brandywine grown in Lancaster County, largely on the recommendation of the guy who runs Kaufmann's about the taste of the Brandywines he (or the farms he gets his tomatoes from) grows.

It was as advertised--juicy and delicious, great with fresh mozzarella and basil.

Even better, however, was the non-heirloom-varietal Jersey tomato I purchased earlier in the week from Iovine's.

And even better than those were the non-heirloom-varietal Jerseys that a colleague in Human Resources on the floor below brings into the copier/coffee room at least once a week, and often more often, during the growing season.

IOW, what JohnL said, which I generally endorse. To borrow Wendy's ad slogan, I'd rather do what tastes right.