Anatomy of a Dinner Party

mrbigjas · August 2, 2006

this is the funnest thread in the PA forum in a long time! thanks y'all.

Shalmanese · August 2, 2006

One of my biggest revelations from plating, surprisingly, came from this lecture entitled "What Art can tell us about the brain".

A large part of good plating is to make it easy for us to tell what it is we're eating. Thats it. Not in the sense of "Is this quail or duck", but what sort of textures we expect to encounter, how flavourful a sauce is and how much of it should we use, what is the preferred order of eating things, how easy will it be for me to break something etc.

Your eyes are trying to glean clues from the plate about how everything will taste and a good plate should make this easy. I've becoming increasingly aware as I now look at plates I admire exactly what elements were done so well and how the pieces were put together just so to provide all of these subtle visual cues.

If you have roughly 45 minutes, listen to the lecture because it's fascinating and if you managed to internalise it, then maybe 6 months later your plates will start to look better.

hathor · August 2, 2006

Shalmanese, that was one of the best critiques of a food shot that I've ever read. Bravo.

I've literally taken thousands of shots this summer, thanks for the food for thought.

Now, back to the soup. Andrew: did you cook the beets? I thought there was something with beets and raw cellulose that if you didn't cook them, your body couldn't access the vitamins/nutrition. Like with a raw potato. It looks gorgeous. How did you make the fennel-orange sorbet? (uhhmmm...you did make it, right? :wink: ). I wound up making a fennel syrup that pretty much did the trick of keeping the fennel flavor 'intact'...not manipulated.

Vadouvan: check out Camden Grey. I get all my essential oils from them. Fair prices and a good product. What more can you ask for? Personally, I want my own still...but, I'm the one who blew up her high school chemistry class room....

Current kitchen experiments: I went on a puree/freezer spree yesterday after reading this thread.

First up: picante cherry peppers. I had too many of them, so I seeded them and pureed them. They are currently melting in the kitchen. Here's the question: is it possible to make pure capsium??? The melted liquid is "WWWWWOOOOOOHHHHHH" hot! I neglected to tell my poor husband what was going on, he was attracted to the pretty red color and gave it a taste. ...oops.

Next time I mess with the peppers, I think I'll roast them first, to mellow the flavor.

I also have a batch of pureed, very sweet, peaches, melting in the kitchen. My initial thought was to use the peach as some sort of base, then accent it with the fire of the cherry peppers. Currently, the peaches are just sitting in the same lump, not melting. Maybe you need a higher water content to make this technique work. Also, there is a very interesting difference in how quickly different substances melt. Peaches are much slower than cherry peppers.

Melon question: In Italy, melon and prosciutto is a classic pairing. The melons here are excellent and the prosciutto is...well, it tastes like it was meant to taste. If you were to make melon soup, using the freezer technique, how would you bring in the prosuciutto element? I've gotten as far as thinking of making tiny little prosciutto/bread croutons. Anyone else inspired?

Vadouvan · August 2, 2006

1.

n your arsenal of oils, what do you use to sauté?
On spices…how much do you purchase at a time? I don’t usually use things like lecithin or fennel pollen, but for other spices, how much should I get, and how long will it last in my pantry if stored properly?

I use grapeseed oil, this particular brand...about $7.50 per bottle.

Downtown Cheese

as for spices, based on how frequently you cook, not more than 3 to 4 ounces unless you have a specific preparations that require more volume...ie Indian food ect ect.

Keep it airtight, cool place, away from sunlight. I feel the spice terminal in RT does a decent job.

It should last 6 to 8 months....

this may be a bit much but I keep all my ground fragrant spices frozen, cinnamon, clove ,allspice, star anise.

They last much longer and retain intensity.

Things like Bay, thyme, rosemary....buy fresh, the dried stuff is crap.

2

The presentation sucks, though. Vadouvan, what guidelines do you follow in plating, etc? I've always tended to follow the "lunchlady Doris" school of food presentation. Efficient, but not exactly elegant; any advice?

To add to Shalmanese's already excellent comments, the key is just to keep it simple, tight, clean and elegant. In my world, the biggest problem with serving food to the wealthy is that thier perception of elegance is F'd up.

They want food to be served on garbage like this....

Ugly huh......ughhhh !

But you really just want to go with plain white bright porcelain.

Soups with center garnishes ( I believe the french word is salpicon) draw your attention to the center first so that part of the puzzle should be on point.

Use ring molds, they dont have to be expensive, you can even use pvc couplings from home depot.

If you center the ring like this......

You can then pack it nicely and press down so it hold together.....

Leftover Nicoise

and when you remove the mold gently, you get.......

and you can pour your soup around afterwards....

3. Shake Shaq....

o you froth your lecithin mixture in a contraption like an isi or is it done by hand?
While on the subject of chemical manipulation, Alex mentioned the use ofmethylcellulose above. Can you clue us in when/why this substance is useful? I know you are not a fan of horseplay with alginates but it sounds like lecithin and methylcellulose are things that have a place in your kitchen.

Yes Evan, I use methocell all the time, remember that seared hot Potato/ham terrine of many moons past......That is what holds it together.

Sort of like a high temperature gelatin.

The Alginate stuff is fun, dont get me wrong I am all for all the experimentation and so called molecular gastronomy......but I just find that a lot of people are cooking food that is novel in its conception and lacks deliciousness. Things like Methocel and activa however that help you structurally create interesting Items are great, I have just found alginated caviars to be too salty and dying whispers of the items they claim to be....I am very interested in the science of food, I just hauled my ass all the way to Orlando to attend the IFT convention which was just fabulous, you get all the ino from one source...

http://69.36.34.245/cms/

Expect some fun tasty things coming......

Lecithin Foams.

Use a hand blender, its more of froth/air with a hint of flavor, i didnt want a heavy dairy presence in an otherwise provencal /mediterranean dish.

I also use the BAMIX which is the best handblender in the world.

It has changeable tips and there is one that generates tons of foam......

Bamix Puree/Foam/Mix

4 Chefs.

I have a dinner party challenge for you, V. What do you (rather, I)cook for three chef friends on their night off? Don't try to impress them with the spectacular, as that's not possible. Simple, summery, and flavorful is what's needed. Creativity not necessary.

Chefs are happy to eat and not cook on tier days off, just make something you do well that tastes good. Keep it simple, what do you feel strongest about, perhaps I can add some tips ?

Andrew Fenton · August 2, 2006

Shalmanese, thanks for the comments. I will take them to heart.

Now, back to the soup. Andrew: did you cook the beets? I thought there was something with beets and raw cellulose that if you didn't cook them, your body couldn't access the vitamins/nutrition. Like with a raw potato. It looks gorgeous. How did you make the fennel-orange sorbet? (uhhmmm...you did make it, right? ). I wound up making a fennel syrup that pretty much did the trick of keeping the fennel flavor 'intact'...not manipulated.

I'd never heard that about beets before; interesting. No, I didn't cook them. My idea was that the freezer would do the work of "cooking" the beets by breaking them down. It seemed to work all right, and it let me avoid using hot things in the kitchen.

I did make the sorbet: in fact, the inspiration came from your description of fennel granita in the Sicily thread. It sounds like we followed similar routes: I cooked the fennel in sugar syrup, then pureed and strained it a little and added it to the orange juice along with some fennel seed.

Edited August 2, 2006 by Andrew Fenton (log)

Vadouvan · August 2, 2006

Melon question: In Italy, melon and prosciutto is a classic pairing. The melons here are excellent and the prosciutto is...well, it tastes like it was meant to taste. If you were to make melon soup, using the freezer technique, how would you bring in the prosuciutto element? I've gotten as far as thinking of making tiny little prosciutto/bread croutons. Anyone else inspired?

1. proscuitto panini / Shotglass of melon soup.

2. Fine dice of melon in the middle of bowl topped with a very thin proscuitto chip (dehydrated), soup around....

dagordon · August 2, 2006

Well, I must say, I'm feeling a bit inadequate.

Melt of Kraft "Deli Deluxe" American Cheese over StarKist Premium Chunk White Albacore Tuna Salad with White Onion and Hellman's Mayonnaise on Fork-Split Thomas' Original English Muffin

Tropicana "Grovestand" Orange Juice; "Lots of Pulp". Exp 8/21/06

:laugh:

Edited August 2, 2006 by dagordon (log)

Andrew Fenton · August 2, 2006

Melt of Kraft "Deli Deluxe" American Cheese over StarKist Premium Chunk White Albacore Tuna Salad with White Onion and Hellman's Mayonnaise

Are those English muffins? A bold choice! I salute you.

dagordon · August 2, 2006

Melt of Kraft "Deli Deluxe" American Cheese over StarKist Premium Chunk White Albacore Tuna Salad with White Onion and Hellman's Mayonnaise
Are those English muffins? A bold choice! I salute you.
←

Damn, I knew I forgot something. Yes, they are. And they are fork-split, of course, so as to preserve the precious nooks and crannies, which are so easily destroyed with a knife. I think I'll update the description.

johnder · August 2, 2006

Froth the strained fennel milk with lecithin.....

V -

How much lecithin powder did you add? Is there a ratio of x grams lecithin to x grams liquid, or is it pretty rough? Was it just dry powder added to the warm liquid?

thanks!

John

KatieLoeb · August 2, 2006

Melon question: In Italy, melon and prosciutto is a classic pairing. The melons here are excellent and the prosciutto is...well, it tastes like it was meant to taste. If you were to make melon soup, using the freezer technique, how would you bring in the prosuciutto element? I've gotten as far as thinking of making tiny little prosciutto/bread croutons. Anyone else inspired?
1. proscuitto panini / Shotglass of melon soup.
2. Fine dice of melon in the middle of bowl topped with a very thin proscuitto chip (dehydrated), soup around....
←

Or you could let a chunk of the prosciutto dry out a bit and then shave some ham "dust" over the top of the soup with a microplane...

Vadouvan · August 2, 2006

How much lecithin powder did you add? Is there a ratio of x grams lecithin to x grams liquid, or is it pretty rough? Was it just dry powder added to the warm liquid?

Had roughly 2 cups of Fennel Milk brought to just above a simmer, not boiling

1 used slightly less than 1 tablespoon lecithin, waited about 1 minute and frothed it up.

Boiling seem to kill the effect of lecithin granules.

There is gram ratio but i go with the rough measure and it works fine, cant exacly be whiping up scales on the line to weigh liquids.....

Edited August 2, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

johnder · August 2, 2006

There is gram ratio but i go with the rough measure and it works fine, cant exacly be whiping up scales on the line to weigh liquids.....
←

Yah I hear ya on that.

On a humorous note -- I was playing around with some sodium alginate / ca cl from willg and noticed my kitchen scale only had a resolution of 2 grams. Kind of sucks when you need to measure out 1.5 grams of this and 3.5 grams of that.

Ended up finding a good scale place that was in Brooklyn not too far from my house. Found a good deal on a Ashiba MP-500 -- resolution of 0.1 g

Vadouvan · August 2, 2006

Ended up finding a good scale place that was in Brooklyn not too far from my house. Found a good deal on a Ashiba MP-500 -- resolution of 0.1 g

Johnny, I have 3 scales of various resolutions, the point isnt to brag but to inform you that i purchased them all from Brooklyn....

Great store.....http://www.itinscales.com/

Scales for all applications.

johnder · August 2, 2006

Ended up finding a good scale place that was in Brooklyn not too far from my house. Found a good deal on a Ashiba MP-500 -- resolution of 0.1 g
Johnny, I have 3 scales of various resolutions, the point isnt to brag but to inform you that i purchased them all from Brooklyn....
Great store.....http://www.itinscales.com/
Scales for all applications.
←

That is exactly where I got it. Awesome place, great customer service.

Edited August 2, 2006 by johnder (log)

rlibkind · August 2, 2006

.....and then salted slightly with Maldon fine salt.
←

By "fine" do you mean "excellent" or do you mean the granularity of the crystal? In my experience what makes Maldon salt special is the size and shape of the flake, which is anything but "fine" in the granular sense.

PS: This thread is incredible!

Edited August 3, 2006 by rlibkind (log)

Vadouvan · August 3, 2006

By "fine" do you mean "excellent" or do you mean the granularity of the crystal? In my experience what makes Maldon salt special is the size and shape of the flake, which is anything but "fine" in the granular sense.
PS: This thread is incredible!

Bob, i actually feel what makes Maldon special is it's flavour, not as salty as free flowing or kosher salts.

Maldon makes two packages...

Maldon Crystals which look like snowflakes....

Maldon Fine which looks like regular salt for quick incorporation.

I use the crystals for obvious garnishes like steaks /Foie torchons ect ect and the fine for purees/ sauces.

Putting Maldon Crystals in sauces is a bit like washing your car win an Hermes scarf ...no ?

rlibkind · August 3, 2006

Maldon makes two packages...
Maldon Crystals which look like snowflakes....
Maldon Fine which looks like regular salt for quick incorporation.
I use the crystals for obvious garnishes like steaks /Foie torchons ect ect and the fine for purees/ sauces.
Putting Maldon Crystals in sauces is a bit like washing your car win an Hermes scarf ...no ?
←

I concur about putting the flake into a sauce. But I thought you were sprinkling it atop the citrus peels over ice cream; seems to me a little flake would be a nice tactile and flavor accent.

Certainly the taste of Maldon Salt is different from table salt or kosher salt -- it is simply saltier than most other salts and reasonably free of off tastes. But where, pray tell, do you find the "fine". I've never see it in the UK or here. Maldon Crystal Salt is the only processor of Maldon salt, and under the "Maldon" brand they only market the flake. Of course they do have another brand, Tidmans, presumably made in Maldon from the same seawater at the same plant. They market Tidmans as a fine grain salt as well as in rock salt and a bath salt formulations. Is this the "fine" salt? Also, seems to me the Maldon flake easily crumbles into fine between the fingers anyway.

Vadouvan · August 3, 2006

I dont salt the ice cream, I salt the lemon peels.

Maldon makes fine salt, I have it here in front of me, I bought it at Waitrose supermarket in canary wharf.

http://www.mycanarywharf.com/directory/sho...upermarket.html

stephenc · August 3, 2006

1.
Ugly huh......ughhhh !

I disagree. I actually dislike the current trend of plain white dishes. Probably because I eat mostly ethnic food, many of which match better with non-white dishes.

That second plate from the top looks really nice, and would look even better topped with a pile of Indian curry.

Edited August 3, 2006 by stephenc (log)

Shalmanese · August 3, 2006

There is gram ratio but i go with the rough measure and it works fine, cant exacly be whiping up scales on the line to weigh liquids.....
←
Yah I hear ya on that.
On a humorous note -- I was playing around with some sodium alginate / ca cl from willg and noticed my kitchen scale only had a resolution of 2 grams. Kind of sucks when you need to measure out 1.5 grams of this and 3.5 grams of that.
Ended up finding a good scale place that was in Brooklyn not too far from my house. Found a good deal on a Ashiba MP-500 -- resolution of 0.1 g
←

Try the uh... time tested method for accurately measuring out small amounts of white powders. If you need 1.5 grams, take 12 grams of powder, a credit card and a flat surface... you can figure out the rest.

Vadouvan · August 3, 2006

I disagree. I actually dislike the current trend of plain white dishes. Probably because I eat mostly ethnic food, many of which match better with non-white dishes.
That second plate from the top looks really nice, and would look even better topped with a pile of Indian curry.

So your "disagreement" isnt a disagreement other than stating you like rustic ethnic food on rustic ethnic place settings. The kind of food being discussed on this thread isnt rustic / ethnic food however I noticed you posted the same thoughts on the Ferdinand thread where it's valid but certainly not in this case.

Besides aesthetics, porcelain has functional use ( heat retention without the glazes and colorings leaching into your food when you heat the plates up).

It isnt a "current trend", unless you have been eating at La Buca, deux cheminees or Hotel chains, almost everyone has been using white plates for 10 years......

I seriously doubt you will be seeing any indian curries on $75/piece Rosenthal plates anytime soon.

Besides Indian restaurants use mostly metal bowls......

Vadouvan · August 3, 2006

Try the uh... time tested method for accurately measuring out small amounts of white powders. If you need 1.5 grams, take 12 grams of powder, a credit card and a flat surface... you can figure out the rest.

Like Miami Vice ?....... :laugh:

twodogs · August 3, 2006

hey, stop making fun of our dinnerware.

Vadouvan · August 3, 2006

hey, stop making fun of our dinnerware.

Ok Alex, I'll trade you some Bernadaud / Reynaud for some Animal Farm butter ........ :smile:

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