Bar Ferdinand.

[Vadouvan]

Next salvo in the Philadelphia tapas craze, Amada gets some serious competition.....

Hey Uncle Phil, PM me.

[davecap]

Next salvo in the Philadelphia tapas craze, Amada gets some serious competition.....

Hey Uncle Phil, PM me.

←

who is going to be the chef?

[Vadouvan]

http://foobooz.com/2006/07/bar-ferdinand-b...lair-to-nolibs/

Place looks good, if they put as much thought into the food as the decor, it ought to be the shizzy.

Edited July 11, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[herbacidal]

It does sound pretty cool, let's hope it doesn't disappoint.

Foobooz looks pretty interesting as well.

[tom_s]

Looks like an interesting place, I can't wait to try it out.

[KatieLoeb]

Sooooooo...

Has anyone been yet? What's the word?

I can't wait to go see their wine list and compare it to Amada's. I'd like to see what their prices are like for by-the-glass wines.

[cjtst11]

I was there last for opening night last night.

It was fairly crowded and loud but we got seats at the community table after about a twenty minute wait. The food was good, not quite Amada good but less expensive. The wine list is good as well but I still like Amada's list more.

Bar Ferdinand seems more like a place to go just to hang out, have a few tapas and some wine. It is more laid back than Amada so I guess it depends on what kind of experience you want.

We will definitely go back and I could see it being a regular spot for us.

[erasingclouds]

Bar Ferdinand seems more like a place to go just to hang out, have a few tapas and some wine.

←

I was there opening night as well, and agree with this assesment (though I havent been to Amada yet, so I can't compare). I liked the atmosphere of Bar Ferdinand a whole lot; a very snazzy looking bar and the other rooms were quite comfortable. And the service was good, especially considering it was opening night.

The food we had was good but not great. Between me and my wife we had six tapas, I dont know that I can remember what they all were: tortilla, mariscos, some sort of asparagus flan, some sort of fried potatos, the cheese plate, and...something else, something with tuna.

Everything was good, the tortilla was probably my least favorite, not as good as I've had at tapas places in other cities, and my favorite might been the cheese plate, or the tuna dish that I cant quite remember. Oddly, at least two, and maybe three, of the dishes incorporated the same cream sauce in some small way, and the sauce wasnt especially distinctive. That was probably my biggest complaint, but it wasnt a very big complaint, especially since some of these tapas were only 3 or 4 dollars, and the most expensive was $8 (the cheese plate).

Their house white wine was quite good for $2 a glass (a slightly smaller glass); I dont remember what the wine was. And their beer selection looked good too, fairly many on tap and in bottles, and cheap prices, many in the $3-4 range.

So yeah, it seems like a nice place to hang out, more than a destination place for dinner, but I'm sure we'll be back.

[Vadouvan]

I think it's a good idea to avoid new places during friends and family and opening nights just to let the kitchen get comfortable. Someone has to go though but I just hate to be the first "lambs to the slaughter".

My curiousity has gotten the best of me and will be trying Ferdinand this evening.

Will report back with uncle Phil's pictures......

[Vadouvan]

In a wierd twist of fate, Uncle phil got struck by lightning in Chester County, though he survived, he looks like an empanada but we wish him a speedy recovery......

So off we go to Ferdinand with Diann, we meet Avram at the bar.

The place looks great, very fun, very casual.

The Food:

In a general sense, I find that Philly tapas as a whole arent quite ready for prime time. The biggest problem is the translation of authenticity, clearly it would be absurd to expect food from Barcelona in Northern liberties or old city but seriously, why the hell not ?

I can get pretty damn good renditions off of Gramercy square.....cheaper....much better in a restaurant 1/5th the size of Amada and Ferdinand......including the kitchen.

Dont get me wrong, Amada for example has some good food but the intrinsically spanish dishes are weak and the best ones mostly push Cuban Flavors. I m not trying to push elitism here but ultimately, how well you like these restaurants will directly relate to whether you have actually been to Spain and experienced authentic spanish flavors.

I dont buy the argument that things need to be translated, I see it as watered down.

As of last night, Ferdinand isnt quite as good but then again, they have been open for 3 days.

We had......

1. patatas Bravas, needs more salt, pimenton, and cut too small.

2. Bouquerones, Bread was paper thin, too much lemon, bread needs to be toasted and the whole thing needs to be doused in Arbequina olive oil.

3.Watermelon and serrano Ham, great Idea but should not be cooked at all, serrano should be much thinner and watermelon schould be ice cold, near frozen and sweet.

4.Bacalao Croquettes, slightly worse than Amadas which arent as good as people who appreciate bacalao would hope.

Salt cod dishes are about salt cod, it's really annoying when restaurants peddle mashed potatoes and fried Bechamel sauce as Brandade or bacalao.

Zero salt cod flavor.

5.Skirt steak, Fried egg, truffle.

Best thing we had all night, addition of truffle was disingenous as the dish had zero truffle flavor or aroma but was crowned with a prominent slice of preserved truffle.

Still quite delicious, cant screw up steak and eggs.

6. Tuna confit empanada.

I personally hate baked empanadas, they shoud be fried like samosa.

Also needs more Jerez, pimenton, salt and toasted fennel.

7. Albondingas with almond sauce.

Ice cold, sauce had no flavor.

they deliberately serve this cold, i prefer hot meatballs.

8.Grilled octopus.

decent flavor but overcooked, Octopus is cheap, I dont understand why restuarants buy tiny ones.

No contrast between the charred exterior and interior and a gratuitous addition of a bouchee.

Why ?

Bill for all this and 4 drinks came to $65.

Very cheap but despite that we felt the food lacked soul..............

Diann any further thoughts ?

Edited July 19, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[mrbigjas]

I m not trying to push elitism here but ultimately, how well you like these restaurants will directly relate to whether you have actually been to Spain and experienced authentic spanish flavors.

I dont buy the argument that things need to be translated, I see it as watered down.

i'm right with ya on this one--after having been to spain a couple of times, i want everywhere to be an actual recreation of that experience. amada isn't, because it's a big fancy restaurant rather than an actual tapas bar. apamate specializes in just a couple of things. sounds like bar ferdinand doesn't do it either. sigh, back to making it myself--of course having the stuff at home isn't anything like being in spain either. dang it.

[NaFairge]

went to BF saturday night late. place was packed, but we were seated right away in a loud corner. well, the whole place is ridiculously loud. hard for conversation but good for just chillin.

first, the drinks: by the glass we enjoyed a bierzo, montsant, jumilla (my fave) and a shiraz tempranillo blend. all good and priced around $7. also tried the sangria. it was outstanding....not too sweet like so often had around town. ended the evening sipping on don julio and lime.

and this.......dogfish head 60 minute for $3.50!!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME.

the food: chef blake joffe is doing a great job. so many of the dishes were spot on. some weren't quite up to snuff. i understand he is looking for some good line cooks.....

tortilla. bangin. beautiful. lots of potato and served room temp the way it should be.

croquettas. liked the cod better than the ham. both good. bechamel is the traditional vehicle and he does it without making them murky or dense. the cod ones have a subtle lemon flavor that is a great change.

calamares. simple. paprika and lemon. wanted something more from them, but not bad. casa mono, i have to say, does a much better job (albeit, with sepia).

piquillos. rolled with whipped trout. delicious! could have eaten 30 of them.

arbequinas. great olive mix, lots of flavour, but some of those wonderful olives are so small and difficult to eat.

patatas bravas. yikes. needs a lot of work. the idea is good but the turnout was not.

empanada. had the date, bacon and cream cheese. perfect balance of sweet and savory. reminded me of the 'piggy back dates' at alma. would have been better washed down with a beer, rather than wine.

bocadillo. crispy pork, peppers and majon cheese. slammin good but wish the bread had been toasted.

lubina. roasted bass with peas and white wine. based on 'salsa verde' like donosti. really good.

quesos. too much wine at this point to remember the names. but a killer blue cheese (monet?) made a fortunate appearance. paprika honey, membrillo and sweet cured olives as garnish.

all in all, a great time. i have heard many mixed reviews and i am sure they will nail every dish in time. it's only been a week. he has a light hand with seasoning and items seemed to be cooked more gently (typico vasco), which IMHO is wonderful, but maybe not for all palates. i wish them the best of luck.

[philadining]

Found myself in Northern Libs, and wanting just a bite or two, and despite the mixed reviews so far on this thread, couldn't resist giving Bar Ferdinand a try.

I think my reactions are pretty similar to others so far, it's a cool looking place, nice vibe, too F&$%#ing LOUD!!!, refreshingly reasonable prices, and the food was, well, mixed. I suspect if I lived in the neighborhood, I'd drop by semi-regularly for a drink and a couple of the tapas that I liked. But as a destination... maybe not.

We started with Sangria

This was pretty similar to most sangrias I've gotten in my life, which is to say, not all that great, and not even close to as good as Amada's, at least to my taste.

Date Bacon and Cream Cheese Empanada

This arrived so alarmingly fast that it had to have been pre-baked and held, yet it was somehow light and flaky and warm, and quite good. I'll agree with the comment upthread, I prefer fried empanadas to baked, and something more doughy than the puff pastry used here, but I still really liked this. The mixture of sweet and salty and the contrast of crunchy and creamy worked really well.

Monkfish and Pork Belly Pincho

This was pretty simple: a grilled chunk of monkfish and cube of pork belly, both dusted with rosemary. That fish always seems to like some bacon, so it's a good combo, and this was nicely done. There were three skewers of this, making for three good bites, not too bad for $6.

Croquettas de Bacalao

Earlier descriptions made me think I wouldn't like these, but I saw a plate of them on my way in, and curiosity got the better of me. Guess what? I didn't like them.... They had a nice crunchy exterior, but the filling had no trace of cod at all, in fact it didn't taste like much of anything. There was a slight lemony edge, which would have been a nice accent to a fish flavor, if there had been any. I thought the texture of the filling was just kind of gummy, so I wouldn't get these again.

Cerdo Frito

Sorry, bad pic, we were losing the light... Anyway, this sandwich of "slowly fried pork" with Mahon cheese, mustard, roasted peppers and onions, was totally delicious. The pork itself was tender and juicy, and all of the other elements complimented it beautifully, causing it to cycle slowly through different flavor sensations. The bread was good too. Total winner. THIS I'd make a special trip for.

Roasted lamb, dates, onions, raisins, mint

The lamb loin was a bit over-cooked,and a little, well.. lamby. On its own, it was rather dull, seemingly unseasoned, and paradoxically, juicy while having a dry texture. The sweet compote that accompanied made it lots better, but still, there's only so much fruit can do if the meat is lackluster.

Calamares a la Plancha

These were nicely cooked, very tender and piquant. For some reason, this still didn't knock me out, although there was nothing at all wrong with it. I guess I thought the paprika flavor was a bit one-dimensional. But I could see people really liking it.

Oh well, we'd already strayed past our original thought of grabbing a few small bites, what the heck, might as well check out dessert....

Bruléed Apple Bread Pudding

The bread pudding had a really lovely texture, but was absolutely drowned in sherry. I usually think of this as a good thing, but the brash booziness overwhelmed any other flavors. The almond ice cream was good...

Churros con Chocolate

These too had a great texture, the light and crispy ridges making good scoops for the rich bitter chocolate. Sadly, the interior of the churros were a little pasty, giving a hint of uncooked batter at the center. These were really close to being excellent, I'm glad they weren't dry, and they were nice and fresh and warm, but I suspect my batch needed a few more seconds in the frier, or needed to cook at a slightly lower temp, or something. I'd risk it again, because even with my complaints, I liked these a lot...

(Edited to add:) I ordered an espresso, and got a standard coffee cup's worth, which was what, a quintuple shot? This explains why I was awake, posting at 2am, and why I might have been jabbering incoherently on my cell phone on the way home. My apologies to anyone who got a foodie call...

So, all in all, the food was OK. I've never been to Spain, so I can't comment on authenticity, and I'm not that interested in that if the food's delicious. But many of the flavors seemed a little timid, or when bolder, unbalanced. But I loved the pork bocadillo, and would get the date-bacon empanada again. I thought the rest was decent, if not thrilling.

We got all this food and drink for $50, so it's a good value. Personally, I'd rather drop a few more bucks for the more assured cooking, and larger portions, at Amada, but I can see Bar Ferdinand as a good place to hang out, get an affordable drink, and a few bites, if culinary thrills are not the main goal of the evening. There's some very good food elsewhere in that neighborhood, but maybe not much in that small-plates style, so perhaps they'll do fine. And it's early days, they could still polish the food a bit... I'll look forward to more reports.

Edited July 31, 2006 by philadining (log)

[KatieLoeb]

The churros and chocolate at Apamate can't be beat. And they're cooked perfectly.

I'm glad Amada's sangria still reigns!

[Vadouvan]

Earlier descriptions made me think I wouldn't like these, but I saw a plate of them on my way in, and curiosity got the better of me. Guess what? I didn't like them.... They had a nice crunchy exterior, but the filling had no trace of cod at all, in fact it didn't taste like much of anything.

Jeff, I discussed this with you over dinner, it's interesting because several people had come to the same conclusion. An inteersting development since my dinner with Diann was word has gotten back to me (in fact sent to me) that the kitchen there is pissed off because they felt I trashed thier food unfairly even though I qualify the post by stating they have only been open for 3 days.

I actually just read my review again, it wasnt unfair, just a line item description of what we had,

I mean really is this nasty ????????

can one not express an opinion or should we just write up glowing reviews of restaurants despite the experience being the opposite.....???

how well you like these restaurants will directly relate to whether you have actually been to Spain and experienced authentic spanish flavors.

I dont buy the argument that things need to be translated, I see it as watered down.

As of last night, Ferdinand isnt quite as good but then again, they have been open for 3 days.

We had......

1. patatas Bravas, needs more salt, pimenton, and cut too small.

2. Bouquerones, Bread was paper thin, too much lemon, bread needs to be toasted and the whole thing needs to be doused in Arbequina olive oil.

3.Watermelon and serrano Ham, great Idea but should not be cooked at all, serrano should be much thinner and watermelon schould be ice cold, near frozen and sweet.

4.Bacalao Croquettes, slightly worse than Amadas which arent as good as people who appreciate bacalao would hope.

Salt cod dishes are about salt cod, it's really annoying when restaurants peddle mashed potatoes and fried Bechamel sauce as Brandade or bacalao.

Zero salt cod flavor.

5.Skirt steak, Fried egg, truffle.

Best thing we had all night, addition of truffle was disingenous as the dish had zero truffle flavor or aroma but was crowned with a prominent slice of preserved truffle.

Still quite delicious, cant screw up steak and eggs.

6. Tuna confit empanada.

I personally hate baked empanadas, they shoud be fried like samosa.

Also needs more Jerez, pimenton, salt and toasted fennel.

7. Albondingas with almond sauce.

Ice cold, sauce had no flavor.

they deliberately serve this cold, i prefer hot meatballs.

8.Grilled octopus.

decent flavor but overcooked, Octopus is cheap, I dont understand why restuarants buy tiny ones.

No contrast between the charred exterior and interior and a gratuitous addition of a bouchee.

Why ?

Bill for all this and 4 drinks came to $65.

Very cheap but despite that we felt the food lacked soul..............

Diann any further thoughts ?

You know it was interesting a few years ago when someone attacked laban for a bad review and I always question why people focus on the messenger and not the message.

Clearly there can be a diff of opinion but I think the fact that you are paying for food entitles you to talk about it honestly.. I have always thought the worst thing you can do to people involved in creativity is to tell them they are doing everything perfectly despite the contrary, I wouldnt wish such evil manipulation upon anyone.....besides, it would be unfair to others on the board to knowingly rave about non rave worthy meals just to be nice......

I mean really does anyone actually do that ?

I am curious about other's opinion......Percy, Evan, Phil ???

[KatieLoeb]

V:

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. There are legions of folks that spout off about their restaurant experiences on that other board or fill out the Zagat survey and folks listen to them. And they hardly have your training or discriminating palate.

The level of discourse here at eG is at a higher level. That's why I like playing in this sandbox.

Note that you are not the only person to have been disappointed with the cod croquettes. Are you all wrong?? And if there's no cod and no potatoes, what are the croquettes made of?? Soylent Green??

The kitchen staff should take your comments as constructive criticism and perhaps see what about your comments could be incorporated into improving the dishes. Or they need to get thicker skins because until they're walking on water like Thomas freakin' Keller, they're going to have some folks that don't necessarily see things exactly as they do. :shrug:

That's all I'm going to say.

[philadining]

Hey Vadouvan, I wasn't there the same night, but my reaction to the food was pretty similar to yours, except that I seem to have stumbled on a couple of things that I rather liked. I didn't get the sense that your post was mean-sprited, i read it as constructive criticism. I mean, the ablondigas are listed under "Tapas Calientes," you'd think the kitchen might be interested that they were cold when they got to you...

But it does bring up that old debate about the nature of criticism/critique/reviews. I've had reasonable disagreements with other folks on this board, and elsewhere, about the propriety of negative comments in a public forum. There's a perfectly respectable school of thought that runs along the lines of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all." There's a similar view that new restaurants deserve a break, as they are getting started.

I happen to be in the school that sees forums like this as serving more of a Consumer Reports-style guide, and that negative comments have a place along with the plaudits. I have some sympathy for the new-place excuse, but if they're charging full price for the food, it seems to me that they ought to have worked that stuff out already.

If friends are going to spend their money and time going out to dinner, and ask my advice about a certain place, I'd feel guilty keeping quiet about it if my experience was that it was bad. In a more public space like this, I still feel like I'm giving advice to friends: personally I take no joy in saying that a place is bad, I just want to share my experiences, and hope they're helpful. I doubt this happens much, but one would hope that the critiques might have some constructive effect if the restauranteurs are paying attention and are open-minded at all.

So, personally, i want to hear both good and bad about a restaurant, but I also want to hear why you think that, maybe I like that kind of thing you hate.... So, Vadouvan, even though your post wasn't exactly a glowing rave, it didn't stop me from going. And I hope my post doesn't stop anyone from going, but I also hope my descriptions might be some guide.

I think it would be mean-spirited to criticize the food in some little hole-in-the-wall with modest ambitions. Not to mention that it's just not interesting if a place that nobody thought would be anything special is, in fact, nothing special. But a place like Bar Ferdinand is the subject of a lot of buzz and anticipation, and is expected to be a place worth going. So I think we do a service here on eGullet by letting people know if a place stands up to the hype.

And so far, it seems to me like there's a rough consensus on this board, even the comments with a more positive spin stop short of enraptured raves about the food. I for one hope that the kitchen can take these comments as they are intended, as constructive criticism, and make some tweaks. I'll go back and find out.

Does a restaurant really want to hear that everything is great, as people stop returning because they were just being nice?

[Vadouvan]

Does a restaurant really want to hear that everything is great, as people stop returning because they were just being nice?

I think this is the case .

Edited August 3, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[wkl]

hey v........ bet they dug your plug about it possibly being the shizzy, and starting the thread. i mean, they can't have it both ways.

[stephenc]

those white plates are weird. Having eaten a bunch of tapas in spain, they always came in brown, red, or orange ceramics. Clean glistening white plates seem a bit too high brow for bar food. but I guess that's the current "in" thang.

Edited August 3, 2006 by stephenc (log)

[Vadouvan]

hey v........ bet they dug your plug about it possibly being the shizzy, and starting the thread. i mean, they can't have it both ways.

Bill I am just done, I am as of today no longer posting in any threads about specific restaurants and what they do, what attracted me to e-gullet is just the ability to network with like minded people who are interested in cookery and the technical details. No point in creating any animousity, it's just best to avoid these situations....

Restaurant reports get too often interpreted as "reviews" and the fact is one person's opinion no matter how positive or negative is one person's opinion. Expecting everyone to agree with you is just a delusion....

[Diann]

hey v........ bet they dug your plug about it possibly being the shizzy, and starting the thread. i mean, they can't have it both ways.

Bill I am just done, I am as of today no longer posting in any threads about specific restaurants and what they do, what attracted me to e-gullet is just the ability to network with like minded people who are interested in cookery and the technical details. No point in creating any animousity, it's just best to avoid these situations....

Restaurant reports get too often interpreted as "reviews" and the fact is one person's opinion no matter how positive or negative is one person's opinion. Expecting everyone to agree with you is just a delusion....

←

V -- sorry you took so much crap from the kitchen at Bar Ferdinand. But (1) if you, or Philadining, or whomever, weren't honest in your opinions, you would be less trustworthy as reviewers and (2) the BF people need to stop freaking out. You're not Craig Laban or the Philly equivalent of Zagat. I know people trust your opinion, but at the same time, I highly doubt that this one post is going to make or break the restaurant. Bar Ferdinand has gotten the most buzz, by far, of any recent new restaurant -- all the media outlets have mentioned their opening, party promoters keep on talking the place up, and I've even gotten an email from a hair salon that touted Bar Ferdinand as the coolest new place in the city -- a hair salon, of all things. I think they'll be fine.

[Vadouvan]

V -- sorry you took so much crap from the kitchen at Bar Ferdinand. But (1) if you, or Philadining, or whomever, weren't honest in your opinions, you would be less trustworthy as reviewers and (2) the BF people need to stop freaking out. You're not Craig Laban or the Philly equivalent of Zagat. I know people trust your opinion, but at the same time, I highly doubt that this one post is going to make or break the restaurant. Bar Ferdinand has gotten the most buzz, by far, of any recent new restaurant -- all the media outlets have mentioned their opening, party promoters keep on talking the place up, and I've even gotten an email from a hair salon that touted Bar Ferdinand as the coolest new place in the city -- a hair salon, of all things. I think they'll be fine.

I didnt mean to overdramatize things even though the food wasnt as good as I would have liked.

Edited August 3, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[erasingclouds]

Vadouvan, I thought your account of eating at Bar Ferdinand was great because of how specific you were, down to the ingredient-level. It made me wish my post was better actually, that I had the memory and attention (plus closer knowledge of Spanish food) needed to give a more detailed account. So please let the criticism of it slide off you, and don't hesitate to write accounts, good or bad, that are that descriptive in the future, because it was definitely useful. It'd be a different thing if you'd just made some blanket negative statement without backing it up, but your complaints were as specific as can be.

[Vadouvan]

Vadouvan, I thought your account of eating at Bar Ferdinand was great because of how specific you were, down to the ingredient-level.

But seriously it's not about me trying to be a know-it-all and pretending to be a better cook.

Its simply an observation that basically says, the difference between your food and the average tapas bar in spain are these specific points. It isnt to trash the restaurant .

The danger of sending restaurants unsolicited feedback is that I know from history, they take it the wrong way and interprete it as you being a know it all. Posting it online on e gullet isnt derogatory other than saying here are specifics, without emotion or embellishment, just the facts.

The key statement was......"It's only been open for 3 days".

Especially in a climate in which Amada is doing the same thing much better.......I would want to know......There is no embarrassment in this forum, we just happen to be a group of people who arent going to restaurants for the glitz and glam.....

But Technical food discussions are more fun than politics......

Edited August 3, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)