Wedding Cake, round 2

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

This weekend I made my second-ever wedding cake. Here's a picture:

<img src="http://www.amarisse.net/tempimages/drewjocake2.jpg">

And here are a couple of questions for you pro's...

1. It was REALLY hot in my house all day Saturday. The cake was too big to fit into either of my refrigerators, so it was at room temp when the outdoor air started taxing the a/c (esp. with the doors open/shut/open all day.) I used wooden dowels to help keep the layers from slipping, but we wound up making Leaning Tower of Pisa jokes before the end of the day! (Fortunately, it never looked like it was actually in jeopardy of falling, but it just didn't look even and professional.) Any tips?

2. The bride really liked the frosted grapes I used on the first cake I made, and she wanted them on her own cake top. I obliged, but found the end result... I dunno... a little disappointing? Maybe the grapes just clashed with the daisies & stuff. Any ideas on how I could have incorporated the grapes, but with a little more flair? I'll admit that by the time I got to that point, I was utterly exhausted from prepping not just the cake, but all the reception food, the house, and the grounds... but I can't even really think of much I could have done differently, in hindsight, either.

3. I've not been brave enough to try dividing layers with columns, yet. Any warnings or advice before I get myself roped into make another cake and decide to give it a shot?

Thanks in advance!

[Sugarella]

I used wooden dowels to help keep the layers from slipping, but we wound up making Leaning Tower of Pisa jokes before the end of the day!  (Fortunately, it never looked like it was actually in jeopardy of falling, but it just didn't look even and professional.)  Any tips?

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The heat would have had nothing to do with leaning. It might make the icing slide down to the bottoms of the tiers but it wouldn't affect the structure any. I can see from the pic it's leaning. That's likely due to improper dowelling (please tell me you used cake decorating dowels and not hardware store dowels!) but I can also see it looks as though each tier itself isn't level. If you look closely at the bottom tier you can see the left side is lower than the right side.....looks like your tops weren't cut straight. So that'll explain why each tier above was crooked and getting worse as time went on. If the weight of a cake above is heavier on one side than it is on the other, it'll push down and outwards on the dowels below it, causing them to collaspe inside their tier. Hope that makes sense. Improper dowelling .... the darned things go in looking like their straight up and down and when you go to cut the cake you find they're on an angle.

Maybe the grapes just clashed with the daisies & stuff.  Any ideas on how I could have incorporated the grapes, but with a little more flair? 

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The grapes are just on the top, whereas the daisies are just on the tiers. If you'd mixed grapes with daisies and daisies with grapes all over things would have looked much more proportionate.

I've not been brave enough to try dividing layers with columns, yet.  Any warnings or advice before I get myself roped into make another cake and decide to give it a shot?

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Don't use dowels with plates and pillars for a cake contructed that way; it's just not stable. Use push-in pillars, where the pillar is long and goes down into the tier acting as a dowel also.

Which support system are you using? (wilton, sps?)

Edited June 19, 2006 by Sugarella (log)

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

The heat would have had nothing to do with leaning. It might make the icing slide down to the bottoms of the tiers but it wouldn't affect the structure any.

Hmm. Ok. I suppose I figured it was the heat, since it didn't start to lean at all the day before, and only started in the early afternoon the second day, when it got to be like 80+ in the house! I also didn't use any dowels at all the first time I made a cake, but it was in a cooler the whole time, from finish to serving, and it didn't lean. I guess I got lucky!

I can see from the pic it's leaning. That's likely due to improper dowelling (please tell me you used cake decorating dowels and not hardware store dowels!) but I can also see it looks as though each tier itself isn't level.

I did use Wilton cake dowels.

You're right; none of the tiers was perfectly level. Part of how you can tell I'm nowhere near a pro. But it didn't seem significantly off, as I said, until the next day.

Improper dowelling .... the darned things go in looking like their straight up and down and when you go to cut the cake you find they're on an angle. 

Yeah. I had no reference point at all, and just kinda winged it with the dowels. How do you go about ensuring that they *are* straight?

The grapes are just on the top, whereas the daisies are just on the tiers. If you'd mixed grapes with daisies and daisies with grapes all over things would have looked much more proportionate.

Good call. I tried fiddling with some greenery up there, but it wound up looking a little on the gaudy & garish side. When I tried a couple of daisies, they were FAR too big. Guess I should have plucked some smaller sized ones, for up there.

Don't use dowels with plates and pillars for a cake contructed that way; it's just not stable. Use push-in pillars, where the pillar is long and goes down into the tier acting as a dowel also.

I'm not familiar at all with this; the pillars act as stabilizers within the cake layers themselves, you mean? Is there a web reference someplace I could perhaps peek at something like this? The few places I found online that gave "tutorials" seemed either to be missing any photos or assumed far more basic knowledge of cake decorating than I am in possession of at this time.

Which support system are you using? (wilton, sps?)

Again, I'm not entirely sure what you mean (and would dearly appreciate clarification!) but the dowels were Wilton brand.

Thanks for taking the time to give your suggestions. It's a fairly daunting thing, to make a wedding cake when you haven't the foggiest idea what you're doing! The first one I made back in April, I tried to beg out of, but the bride kept assuring me that she "didn't care what it looked like," because she knew it would at least taste good if I made it. I had no idea what I was getting into, and swore (after 16 hours of work!) I'd never do it again. Little did I know that my best friend's daughter was going to wind up asking me to repeat the process two months later. And how do you say no to that?

[lorinda]

Did you use cake boards between the tiers?

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

Did you use cake boards between the tiers?

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No, I didn't. As I said, I was kinda winging it both times, and found that basic directions online were split about half and half as to whether or not it was necessary. I did buy the cake rounds, but once I saw they didn't *perfectly* match the layers (size-wise,) I opted out of them.

Think that would have helped solve my problem, as well?

[Tweety69bird]

Did you use cake boards between the tiers?

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No, I didn't. As I said, I was kinda winging it both times, and found that basic directions online were split about half and half as to whether or not it was necessary. I did buy the cake rounds, but once I saw they didn't *perfectly* match the layers (size-wise,) I opted out of them.

Think that would have helped solve my problem, as well?

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So, your cake tiers were sitting right on top of each other and the dowels? Nothing in between???

[lorinda]

OK, you definitely need to use cake boards when you use dowels, otherwise there's no point in dowelling. I don't mean the mdf/wooden boards though, but the thick card board ones. You can use boards that are one size smaller than the tier as the board does not have to be exactly as big as the tier, provided it is bigger than the dowelled area on the tier beneath. If you can't get cake boards, you could try cutting plastic disposable plates to a suitable size.

I would transport the tiers separately (but with the dowels in place) and stack onsite. Others use a central tier going through the entire cake to prevent layers sliding, but I prefer not to.

You could dust icing sugar or put a circle of parchment under the boards to prevent the frosting of the tier below sticking to it when the cake is disassembled for cutting.

Another tip is to cut all the dowels for a tier the same height, irrespective of whether the cake itself is absolutely level. This way, even if the actual cake layer is not even, the higher tiers will be level. You can disguise any slight gap with ribbon around the base, or piping. Or, if like the cake you made which has very nice textured frosting, just spread some more frosting.

Use a sharpened dowel to make the initial hole, but then trim the dowel level with the layer, such that both ends of the dowel are flat to minimise movement once inside the cake.

(You could also get a cheap little spirit level to take the guesswork out of levelling tiers. )

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

OK, you definitely need to use cake boards when you use dowels, otherwise there's no point in dowelling. **snipped**

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Ok, this was VERY helpful. Thank you! I think I have a much better idea of what I am doing wrong, and what I need to do to fix it, now. I already pretty much decided I was going to look into buying a cake leveler after fighting with the layers this go-around. I'm glad to know they actually work!

I only put parchment in between the tiers. It's funny that I found so many sets of directions that indicated the use of dowels but made no mention of cake boards needing to be used! Of course, I have absolutely ZERO experience in baking wedding cakes, and made my first one before I wandered over here to eGullet (and was too busy with a hundred other things to think about it, this time!) so I was pretty ignorant when I started an internet search.

I think I might make another cake weekend after next. I have a festival going on here, and a birthday party on one of those nights, so there'll be enough people to knock out most of a wedding-sized cake, and no serious pressure. My guests have yet to complain when I use them for culinary guinea pigs.

Thanks again for taking the time to write out this explanation. I might run back begging for advice again when I tackle the columns!

[CanadianBakin']

I think you would find The Whimsical Bakehouse very helpful. It has very simple instructions on constructing a tiered cake. It also has pan volumes and how much filling, etc you'll need for various sizes of cakes. It also has a chart on mixing icing colours and a variety of simple decorating techniques. It's definitely worth a look. A girlfriend and I use it for the first tiered cake we'd built and it turned out very well.

[lorinda]

You're very welcome. You are obviously a naturally talented baker and I was impressed with your cake, especially as you say it's only your second one, it looked like a very happy cake. When it started leaning, I would have just told everyone it's a whimsical cake!

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

I think you would find The Whimsical Bakehouse very helpful. It has very simple instructions on constructing a tiered cake. It also has pan volumes and how much filling, etc you'll need for various sizes of cakes. It also has a chart on mixing icing colours and a variety of simple decorating techniques. It's definitely worth a look. A girlfriend and I use it for the first tiered cake we'd built and it turned out very well.

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That really does look fun... and it sounds like the kind of things I'd make. (Considering the groom's cake for my first wedding baking project was a Batman cake, and this one was a pinata cake!) I'm heading into town for a few days tonight and will check it out! Thanks.

[Sugarella]

Yep, you definitely need to use boards under each tier! Boy, I'm suprised it wasn't a lot worse. Never let a cake tier take the weight of the tier(s) above it..... the supports are to do ALL of the work.

The sort of boards you'll want to use are either the foil covered cake cardboards made by bakerycrafts, the foil covered masonite sheets made by cornish cakeboards (I will ONLY use these but they do get pricey) or you can even get plastic plates, made by wilton et al. Just don't use the wax coated brown cardboard things you can get everywhere....they're useless.

For future reference, when you do dowel make sure you place the dowels in a circle about 1.5" from the perimeter of the tier above it. That'll give you the best support. And don't put a dowel in the centre....otherwise the weight of the tier above will rest on the centre one and you'll end up with a leaning cake that way too.

Wilton has a system where you use 2 plastic plates with columns, then dowel inside the cake. This is an extremely popular system, but I DO NOT recommend it one bit. The plates and colums aren't actually attached to anything and it really isn't sturdy. I'm only warning you about these because I suspect you're buying your supplies from a walmart or michaels or someplace because you're fairly new to this..... and the readily available stuff isn't necessarily very good.

The push in pillars I think are a good bet for you, being you'll be working on your 3rd cake. They're cheap enough and they're reusable, and will do the job well for a 3 tier cake. (Anything taller and you should use a sturdier system.) They look like this (starting 5th item down) and come in 7" or 9" lengths. Depending on the height of your tier (3" or 4") the remaining length will stick up out of the tier and you lock your plate system into them.

Hope that helps.

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

You're very welcome.  You are obviously a naturally talented baker and I was impressed with your cake, especially as you say it's only your second one, it looked like a very happy cake. When it started leaning, I would have just told everyone it's a whimsical cake!

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I appreciate the encouragement! My first one actually came out a little better, honestly, but it was a whole tier shorter and the bride wanted *lots* of flowers. (You can see it <a href="http://www.amarisse.net/tempimages/cake1.jpg"> here</a>, if you're interested.)

This cake was more of a learning experience, but, fortunately, you rarely get much in the way of complaints when the happy couple in question is getting a very pretty venue (our place,) all the reception food, the cakes, and the performance of the ceremony itself as a big, package wedding gift!

Seriously, though, I'm just hoping the learning curve will be, for me, like learning to bake bread. I was terrified of it, at first, due to some early failures, but once I got the hang of the basics, it's like breathing, and I'm never afraid to make up my own recipes. I'm still not there, by a long shot, with cakes! Heck, I'm so scared of screwing up the proportions of batter in the differing sizes of pans, I cheated and used cake mixes for both wedding cakes! (Shh, please don't tell on me!)

I thought about taking one of those classes they hold at Michael's or Ben Franklin, but we live out in the sticks and the nearest town that has such a thing (Richmond, VA) is over an hour away... I wonder if it would be worthwhile, or if I should just keep plugging?

Anyway... thanks again to all who helped out! You may see a "tiered birthday cake" thread appear sometime next week if I get brave enough to tackle it!

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

Yep, you definitely need to use boards under each tier! Boy, I'm suprised it wasn't a lot worse. Never let a cake tier take the weight of the tier(s) above it..... the supports are to do ALL of the work.

That makes sense. I think I got a lot luckier than I realized!

The sort of boards you'll want to use are either the foil covered cake cardboards made by bakerycrafts, the foil covered masonite sheets made by cornish cakeboards (I will ONLY use these but they do get pricey) or you can even get plastic plates, made by wilton et al. Just don't use the wax coated brown cardboard things you can get everywhere....they're useless.

Ok, I googled around and found <a href="http://sugarcraft.com/catalog/paper/cardboards.htm#masonite">these</a> masonite boards. They're 1/4" thick, though... is that okay to use in between layers? Or should I keep looking for thinner ones? Sounds like these would be a lot better for the bottom, for sure.. the first time I used a store-bought Wilton plastic base, and that was hellish. This time, I bought a heavy-duty quality round pizza pan (sounds bad, but it was really pretty, being brand new!) It was a little better, but still didn't tempt me to want to move it around too much.

For future reference, when you do dowel make sure you place the dowels in a circle about 1.5" from the perimeter of the tier above it. That'll give you the best support. And don't put a dowel in the centre....otherwise the weight of the tier above will rest on the centre one and you'll end up with a leaning cake that way too.

Ok, so I got that part right by instinct. Too bad I didn't have the boards in between!

Wilton has a system where you use 2 plastic plates with columns, then dowel inside the cake. This is an extremely popular system, but I DO NOT recommend it one bit. The plates and colums aren't actually attached to anything and it really isn't sturdy. I'm only warning you about these because I suspect you're buying your supplies from a walmart or michaels or someplace because you're fairly new to this..... and the readily available stuff isn't necessarily very good.

Your suspicions are correct. WalMart, Michael's, Ben Franklin, and Party City (the latter having the best selection, oddly enough.) I wonder where else I can check to find a fabulous selection of baking goodies? I don't recall seeing such things at Bed, Bath & Beyond OR my favorite gourmet kitchen store in Richmond. I seem to remember, years ago, a huge Wilton's section at the old Service Merchandise stores, but alas, they have gone the way of the dinosaurs.

The push in pillars I think are a good bet for you, being you'll be working on your 3rd cake. They're cheap enough and they're reusable, and will do the job well for a 3 tier cake. (Anything taller and you should use a sturdier system.)

Looks like I'm going to have to force my friends & family to eat cake for a while, as I experiment, then, huh?

Hope that helps.

Absolutely! You've all been very generous... thanks! Will share pictures of my next endeavor!