Malt extract for breadmaking

[lorinda]

In the everlasting quest to make bread rise higher, crumb softer, just generally better, I came across some malt extract recently and bought some, having read that some bakers add diastatic malt extract to their dough to improve it, especially if, as in my part of the world, the flour grown lacks sufficient alpha-amylase. The packet I bought does not have the word 'diastatic' but is called 'Malt extract', is a yellow powder.

Does anyone have any experience using malt extract with bread (not sourdough)? I would be most interested to hear about it. How much does one use, and what does it do to the bread, eg, softer crumb? better rise?

Thanks in advance!

[piazzola]

I believe have sufficient experience to tell you some of my results

I could not find diastatic malt extract so I spouted some barley grains and dried them acording to instructions with no tangible results to add to my already good flour stock but then again I use commercial flour of various grades and the batches produced are very recent (that is within three months of milling) of course I buy bulk flour in 25kg bags which is not the same as store bought flour.

As you probably know alpha-amylase is already included and the milling (hoiw much do not know) but normally is included to help prodiced a lighter crumb by commercial bakers.

So I don't use malt flour extract don't need for the kind of lfour I work with

Of course non diastatict malt is ued mainly for flavouring which I often do

[devlin]

In the everlasting quest to make bread rise higher, crumb softer, just generally better, I came across some malt extract recently and bought some, having read that some bakers add diastatic malt extract to their dough to improve it, especially if, as in my part of the world, the flour grown lacks sufficient alpha-amylase. The packet I bought does not have the word 'diastatic' but is called 'Malt extract', is a yellow powder.

Does anyone have any experience using malt extract with bread (not sourdough)? I would be most interested to hear about it. How much does one use, and what does it do to the bread, eg, softer crumb? better rise?

Thanks in advance!

←

I bought some from a brewing company per Nancy Silverton's suggestion that if you were to use it, that would be the stuff to get. She also noted that although she used to use it in her breads in the same quest for the better bread, she considered later it really didn't add anything significant enough to bother with. And that's the conclusion I reached myself after trying it for awhile.

[DerekW]

Caveat: my beer brewing is much better than my bread baking; I'll approach the question from that point...

There's a good explanation of the role played by alpha amylase in starch to sugar breakdown on John Palmer's excellent online How To Brew web-book.

Casually used, the term diastatic applied to malts usually just means that they have enough enzyme to convert their own starch to sugar. If you read the information Palmer supplies you will note that the enzymatic activity takes place in a fairly narrow temperature band. You would need to hold the dough at that temperature for a while to see any difference at all.

cheers

Derek

[lorinda]

Thank you for all your replies. I will check out John Palmer's web book. It seems if the flour already has sufficient enzyme then adding the malt won't change anything. Piazzola, I am in Australia too. I didn't know that they already add alpha amylase to the flour, so that is interesting. At the moment I use Laucke's Wallaby flour from the supermarket; had a brief flirtation with Promax which I understand is what the baker's use, but didn't see much difference except it being more expensive.

[Bill44]

Hi Lorinda, I'm in Australia and use Laucke Wallaby flour as my standard white flour. I usually add 1 slightly heaped teaspoon of dried brewers malt to eack 1Kg loaf and I find it does give a better rise. I have been baking for many years and can assure you that there is a difference.

Somewhere on the web there is information about the use of diastatic malt in baking and the message that comes through is "Don't use too much" as it will have a detrimental effect on your loaf. So if you are using more than a heaped teaspoon you may be negating any beneficial effect the malt may have.

[cajungirl]

I've used it a couple of times, but I don't like the result. It seems to make the crumb lighter, less chewy and the crust also lighter. Of course, I'm into sourdough and prefer a chewier crumb and crunchy crust. It also sweeetens the dough a bit. At least thats my experience

[glennbech]

I may be in over my head here. But in Sourdough baking it "might" make some sense to add malt extract (if it contains maltosis, something that I guess it does). I think Dan Lepard has malt extract in some of his naturally leavned bread in "the handmade loaf".

The lactobacilli utilizes the maltosis, while the yeast utilizes the other sugars present in the flour. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus_sanfranciscensis)

Edited June 6, 2006 by glennbech (log)

[Bill44]

I've used it a couple of times, but I don't like the result.  It seems to make the crumb lighter, less chewy and the crust also lighter.  Of course, I'm into sourdough and prefer a chewier crumb and crunchy crust.  It also sweeetens the dough a bit.  At least thats my experience   

←

This is what I mean about using too much. If you use the amount I suggested, 1 lightly heaped teaspoon to 1Kg of dough, then it will neither sweeten the bread nor soften the crumb and crust.

Cajungirl, you would love the crunch of my crust, and I don't have to bake it black to get it. You do learn a bit in 25years of making sourdough, I first learned from a German baker.

[lorinda]

Hi Lorinda, I'm in Australia and use Laucke Wallaby flour as my standard white flour. I usually add 1 slightly heaped teaspoon of dried brewers malt to eack 1Kg loaf and I find it does give a better rise. I have been baking for many years and can assure you that there is a difference.

Somewhere on the web there is information about the use of diastatic malt in baking and the message that comes through is "Don't use too much" as it will have a detrimental effect on your loaf. So if you are using more than a heaped teaspoon you may be negating any beneficial effect the malt may have.

←

Very interesting Bill, I defer to your experience! If my experiments are not too embarassing, I shall endeavour to post the results. By the way, a bit off topic, but would you know about the need to scald milk before using for bread - apparently one needs to remove the proteins which are detrimental to yeast. Would using dried milk powder circumvent the need to scald?

[Bill44]

Very interesting Bill, I defer to your experience! If my experiments are not too embarassing, I shall endeavour to post the results. By the way, a bit off topic, but would you know about the need to scald milk before using for bread - apparently one needs to remove the proteins which are detrimental to yeast. Would using dried milk powder circumvent the need to scald?

←

No need to scald the milk Lorinda, over the years I have heard many things that should or should not be done, most of them have no basis in fact. A popular one is that you don't add the salt in your loaf untill after the first proof because it affects the yeast, like a lot of the "myths" it has no basis in fact.

[cajungirl]

I've used it a couple of times, but I don't like the result.  It seems to make the crumb lighter, less chewy and the crust also lighter.  Of course, I'm into sourdough and prefer a chewier crumb and crunchy crust.  It also sweeetens the dough a bit.  At least thats my experience   

←

This is what I mean about using too much. If you use the amount I suggested, 1 lightly heaped teaspoon to 1Kg of dough, then it will neither sweeten the bread nor soften the crumb and crust.

Cajungirl, you would love the crunch of my crust, and I don't have to bake it black to get it. You do learn a bit in 25years of making sourdough, I first learned from a German baker.

←

I certainly defer to your expertise I used the diastatic malt according to the instructions on the bag (bought it from King Arthur Flour). Apparently this was too much, though I don't remember exactly how much was suggested at this time. In order to get a little better rise, I have been using ascorbic acid.

I baked sourdough bread several years ago and have only recently gotten back to it, so its much like learning for the first time, my only advantage being that I had all the equipment already. I took a class a few months ago with a "master baker" at the Pacific Culinary Institute and the instructor said that she would use it for a sandwich type bread, but not for the rustic sourdough type of loaf. Anyway, I'll look up my conversion tables and find out how much "1 Kg" of flour is so I'll know how much to add according to your formula and I'll give it a try again.

Thanks for sharing the benefit of your experience

[lorinda]

Here are pics of my latest effort, using the malt extract powder. However, I now doubt whether the stuff I bought was diastatic malt - it didn't say diastatic on the packet. I used 2T to 1kg flour. Whatever it was, I was happy with the results, the oven spring was phenomenal. You can see in one of the pictures of the slashes I made, which opened right up.

Dough was made with a mix of wholemeal, rye and white flour, resulting in a light soft open crumb.

[Bill44]

Looks great Lorinda, the crumb structure is terrific.

[Woods]

In the everlasting quest to make bread rise higher, crumb softer, just generally better, I came across some malt extract recently and bought some, having read that some bakers add diastatic malt extract to their dough to improve it, especially if, as in my part of the world, the flour grown lacks sufficient alpha-amylase. The packet I bought does not have the word 'diastatic' but is called 'Malt extract', is a yellow powder.

Does anyone have any experience using malt extract with bread (not sourdough)? I would be most interested to hear about it. How much does one use, and what does it do to the bread, eg, softer crumb? better rise?

Thanks in advance!

←

You can get malted extract syrup at Whole Foods and coops. Home brew shops have it as well as dried. Sugars will help the bread to brown nicely.l

Although I do use it some times you don't need it to make good bread. Proper temperatures, proofs and oven spring are your best bets.

[cajungirl]

I've used it a couple of times, but I don't like the result.  It seems to make the crumb lighter, less chewy and the crust also lighter.  Of course, I'm into sourdough and prefer a chewier crumb and crunchy crust.  It also sweeetens the dough a bit.  At least thats my experience   

←

This is what I mean about using too much. If you use the amount I suggested, 1 lightly heaped teaspoon to 1Kg of dough, then it will neither sweeten the bread nor soften the crumb and crust.

Cajungirl, you would love the crunch of my crust, and I don't have to bake it black to get it. You do learn a bit in 25years of making sourdough, I first learned from a German baker.

←

You are so right Bill. I baked this weekend and used diastatic malt, not very much though. I most certainly had a nice dark crispy crust, thick and crackly. Thanks for your guidance.