Eating Money

[John Whiting]

It isn't just the food that's sous-vide-- it's the restaurants themselves.

[jayrayner]

It isn't just the food that's sous-vide-- it's the restaurants themselves.

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Nice line. Wish I'd put it in the piece. In case anybody notices and wonders, some curious coding problems have turned up in the on-line version. I have no idea why Robuchon's first name has the apostrophe in it but it's not there on the old-fashioned printed page.

[John Whiting]

It isn't just the food that's sous-vide-- it's the restaurants themselves.

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Nice line. Wish I'd put it in the piece. In case anybody notices and wonders, some curious coding problems have turned up in the on-line version. I have no idea why Robuchon's first name has the apostrophe in it but it's not there on the old-fashioned printed page.

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You disappoint me--I thought you were in on Joel's real spelling!

EDIT: Happiness is praise from a master stylist!

FURTHER EDIT: Jay, what's your gut reaction to all this (if you feel like stating it)?

Edited May 28, 2006 by John Whiting (log)

[rooftop1000]

Isnt this how Mc Donalds started out?

Tracey

[rjwong]

Here's the Guardian Unlimited article (28 May 2006) citation:

How the world's top chefs went global. By Jay Rayner, critic of the year

jayratner, good on you!

Mind you, I must bring to your attention that before there was a Nobu restaurant in New York in 1994, there was the original Matsuhisa restaurant in Beverly Hills. Los Angeles does have a few good restaurants.

Also, are you optimistic or pessimistic that all these chefs can maintain culinary standards and not become "corporate", mediocre, formulaic, etc.?

[John Whiting]

Even if the world’s most famous chefs actually succeed in cloning themselves to infinity, is this really our idea of a great meal at a premium price? Do we want fine dining to take on the international anonymity of the fast food chains? Five years ago Russ Parsons in another eGullet thread wrote of

…the growing uniformity I find in restaurants around the world. It gets to the point that I sometimes can't tell which city I'm in – Paris, London, Alba, LA? Roughly the same ingredients prepared in roughly the same way.

And that was before the Michelin-starred establishments began reproducing like Campbell’s soup cans from the brush of Andy Warhol. Any given country’s most hyped restaurants are becoming as ethnically ambiguous as its airline terminals.

[MarketStEl]

Wasn't it Voltaire who wrote, "The law, in its infinite majesty, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges and beg for food"?

Then I see this quote in Mr. Rayner's fascinating article:

'There's now a group of people who go from city to city eating in these restaurants,' Jo'l Robuchon told me in London, a few weeks before my trip to Vegas. 'It's reassuring for the international traveller to know they can go from one of my restaurants to the other because they can order the same food. '

and I think, Hmmmm...the rich aren't that different from you and I. They just pretend to be more adventurous, but they're really just as lazy as we are and don't want to venture outside their comfort zones either.

Of course, when I see a Wolfgang Puck To Go refrigerated sandwich case next to my departure gate in the Southwest Airlines section of Kansas City International Airport, I guess it had to be just a matter of time before the Big Name Chefs figured out they could do the same thing at the very top end of the scale.

--Sandy, wondering why that case wasn't a Gates BBQ To Go instead

[jayrayner]

Here's the Guardian Unlimited article (28 May 2006) citation:

How the world's top chefs went global. By Jay Rayner, critic of the year

jayratner, good on you!

Mind you, I must bring to your attention that before there was a Nobu restaurant in New York in 1994, there was the original Matsuhisa restaurant in Beverly Hills.  Los Angeles does have a few good restaurants.

Also, are you optimistic or pessimistic that all these chefs can maintain culinary standards and not become "corporate", mediocre, formulaic, etc.?

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Thanks for that. At the last minute I had to lose 400 words. The reference to Matsuhisa was a few of those words.

Do I think they can maintain standards? Yes I do, but it's whether they are standards we - any of us - would find appealing. Multiple operations demandmassive concistency and eventually that can lead to something faultless but bland. I also loved l'atelier de Joel Robuchon in Paris. But I think it takes something away from the experience that it will soon be available in eight other cities, even though it will be exactly the same.

Then again, I do find it hard to begrudge the big names their success. Being a chef is a tough business. I couldn't work the hours, and I'm sure most people couldn't either. Rare (read stupid) is the guy or gal who goes into it thinking they'll become rich. Investment banking it ain't. That some of them eventually manage to make big money seems fine to me. (Have you noticed how it's often the people with enough money to eat in their restaurants, the big earners, who most begrudge the star chefs their riches?)

Personally I found Mark Edwards' comment, that these jumbo high end restaurants might kill off the smaller ones, most intriguing, though I doubt its the case. I suspect the big players only arrive in town when a restaurant sector has recahed a certain maturity.

J

[Kouign Aman]

Wow. Howard Johnson and Joel Robuchon had/have the same vision...

it seems that people are people at all income levels.

[John Whiting]

Along with Jay, I don’t begrudge the masters of their craft the opportunity to earn a fraction of what they would rake in as star athletes. But I deeply resent the economic structure that makes it necessary for them to transmogrify into culinary viruses in order to do so.

A quarter century ago John and Karen Hess wrote in The Taste of America:

The dirty secret of American luxury dining is precooked frozen food. It will remain a secret, because the industry has no intention of allowing the public to know that it is getting vending-machine food at luxury prices.

If you replace frozen with sous vide, how long will it be before the signature dishes of these gastronomic empires are produced in some central kitchen in which sub-chefs turn out identical specialities from identical ingredients flown in from all over the world? Over the barred entrance will be a wrought-iron sign reading, KUCHEN MACHT FREI.

Jay, would it be illegal/unethical for you to post your article on eGullet as it existed before it was hacked to bits? (That’s a genuinely innocent question.)

[jayrayner]

Jay, would it be illegal/unethical for you to post your article on eGullet as it existed before it was hacked to bits? (That’s a genuinely innocent question.)

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I wouldn't say it was hacked to bits. I lost 400 words out of a piece that was orginally 3500, and I was the one who did the cutting. The reference to Matsuhisa aside, I lost nothing important. A modest tightening can only improve a piece like that; I'm a big believer in editing, something old media (when it's doing the job correctly) still has over the new. So no. I'll stick by the one that's online on the Observer site.

[MarketStEl]

Jay, would it be illegal/unethical for you to post your article on eGullet as it existed before it was hacked to bits? (That’s a genuinely innocent question.)

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I wouldn't say it was hacked to bits. I lost 400 words out of a piece that was orginally 3500, and I was the one who did the cutting. The reference to Matsuhisa aside, I lost nothing important. A modest tightening can only improve a piece like that; I'm a big believer in editing, something old media (when it's doing the job correctly) still has over the new. So no. I'll stick by the one that's online on the Observer site.

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Samuel Johnson (so I've heard) once began a letter, "Please forgive the length of this letter; I didn't have the time to write a shorter one."

Every good writer benefits from a good editor--and if time permits, it's also good to let a piece marinate for a little while, then return to it and reread it. (Of course, in the daily newspaper trade, there's almost no time to do this, so the cutting is done on the fly. That is why the "inverted pyramid" style of news writing evolved: it made stories easier to edit quickly, as you only needed to cut from the end of the story if it was too long.)

[John Whiting]

I was the one who did the cutting.

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That makes all the difference. Autosurgery is the best kind.

[mrsadm]

Still, for all their consistency world wide, there is one truly Vegas experience mentioned in the article - wine angels fetching bottles from a wine tower. Now where else in the world would you do that? ;-)

[shelly59]

Maybe it is just me and my bourgeois upbringing , but when I save up my hard-earned cash for a very special meal at a French Laundry or a Nobu, I just ASSUME "The Chef" will be there. In the kitchen. If not making my dish with his/her own hands, at least close by, overseeing the process. To me, food on that level is a work of art, created by the Chef for my enjoyment. I am paying him for his artistry, knowledge and sense of the moment. I am silly and naive I suppose, but there you are.

This trend, although probably inevitable, and certainly understandable, makes me sad.

[John Whiting]

This trend, although probably inevitable, and certainly understandable, makes me sad.

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It makes me disinclined to pay "signed original" prices for a carbon copy--however fancy the packaging.

[hathor]

Sort of blows the whole concept of 'terroire' right out of the water doesn't it? I can't think of any more depressing and self-defeating concept than being proud that a dish tastes the same where ever it is prepared. To me, it only increases the value of the small, local restaurant that honors its local ingredients.

[JohnL]

It isn't just the food that's sous-vide-- it's the restaurants themselves.

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Interesting piece of reportage.

I am not sure what the complaint is here.

The truth is most of us have no idea who is in the kitchen preparing our food.

Mr Bourdain disabused us of many of our pre conceived notions about dining

--fine and otherwise (see "Kitchen Confidential").

Today "local" ingredients are universal-given the speed of shipping.

I believe that most chefs are entrepreneurial by nature. If it was ever true that chefs basically owned and operated one restaurant and had a hand in preparing every dish every night for every diner--then this would have been a somewhat tedious life after many years. (maybe given the opportunity many would have expanded their horizons).

In the past the notion of the chef as

"cook" was probably truer than it is today.

If one believes that some chefs are highly creative individuals who conceptualize food and dining then what is wrong with their exploring food in different venues? This is less about money than it is about opportunity--the opportunity simply exists for these people today.

I also believe that today's explosion in interest in fine dining has presented an opportunity for chefs and restaurateurs to stretch their wings and explore opportunities. So Mario Batali can explore many facets of Italian cooking, Jean Georges can try his hand at ethnic cuisines that have fascinated him in different venues.

A miniscule number of diners can eat at the french Laundry so what is negative about the opportunity to taste keller's food at Per Se?

Very few people can experience Robuchon's cooking in his original restaurant--so what is wrong with presenting diners who can't fly to Paris with an opportunity to taste his food. true the experience is not the same/identical --nor should it be--but more possibilities for more diners is a good thing.

The proof will always be in the pudding--can these chefs control expanding universes so the experience and the food are of a high quality for the diner?

Again--who knows who is in the kitchen?--and who should really care?--the proof is always on the plate!

Edited May 31, 2006 by JohnL (log)

[hathor]

JohnL, not complaining, but discussing the aspect of chefs producing virtually the same food in different locations. To follow your argument through: then why bother travelling at at all?

To my mind, being somewhere and eating locally immensely improves the dining experience. I would want French Laundry to be cooking with what is fresh and available in California, and PerSe to be reaping the benefits of what is seasonal in the NY area. It all goes back to the basic Howard Johnson theory of finding comfort in knowing that wherever you visit, it will all be the same. I like a bit more adventure in my life.

[Culinista]

Along with Jay, I don’t begrudge the masters of their craft the opportunity to earn a fraction of what they would rake in as star athletes. But I deeply resent the economic structure that makes it necessary for them to transmogrify into culinary viruses in order to do so.

I had this thread very much in mind last night as we slogged our way through the £90 omakase menu at Nobu London last night while discussing the luxury goods market. Goes to prove that even overpriced, mediocre food is still food for thought.

These were the thoughts, in random order:

1. Consistency is much harder to achieve than people realize. Ducasse was reviled for creating an empire of three-stars, but he is one of the only chefs that I know of that has (re)created anything of culinary value in this format. Sous vide is not the magic bullet--you need to be able to recreate a tight organization that can control quality and maintain standards. I know Matsuhisa can cook, because we had a very good meal once when he was in New York. Clearly he has not found a good organization in London, because the ingredients were similar and the recipes were the same. The whole staff felt slack, from the sushi chefs sipping tea and snacking while they worked, to the uninformed staff who misidentified ingredients, to the chef de cuisine who allowed dessicated clams and gummy noodles to go out to the dining room. The dining room itself looked and felt like a Wagamama, not like the more sophisticated decor of NY. Only the menu and the prices looked the same.

2. Nobu London was an awful letdown after Nobu NY, yet it was full of people. Who were they? Probably the usual tourists looking for a fancier McDonalds or the johnny-come-latelies that try to keep up with the trendsetters. These are the same people who buy Rolexes or BMWs or Louis Vuitton for nothing more than brand cachet. They seemed to be enjoying their meal, however. As annoyed as I get that Matsuhisa or Robuchon or anyone else who is capable of better would milk their hard-earned reputation by selling low-end garbage at designer prices, it's hard to fault them for providing something that people obviously want and like. If they want to spend their money there rather than at McDonald's, at least they're eating slightly better food. Let the buyer beware, a sucker is born every minute...the old capitalist saws still apply.

3. Very few people are truly discriminating when it comes to quality. Most couldn't tell if the chef was in the kitchen or not, or which wine is the Romanee-Conti, but a few could. The luxury market segments itself into the small knowledgeable vanguard, the celeb types that popularize a brand image, and the followers (see no 2). Few people, if presented with brands they've never heard of, can figure out on their own how it ranks in quality. Most have to wait for their opinion of the brand to be communicated to them. As a brand, restaurants are even harder, because unlike cars or handbags or even music or art, it is far more difficult to replicate food exactly (see no.1), even in the same restaurant on the same night.

4. The role of the food critic is more powerful than almost any other type of priesthood because of no.3. But once a chef's reputation is made, he can then set up his empire because of no. 2. He has become a brand in a world ruled by brand thinking. It makes the complexities of our choices less overwhelming.

5. Not all luxury consumers are idiots or filthy rich. Look at the modest-income eG types offering their piggy banks on the altars of haute cuisine. Maybe there were some there last night that knew how to order better. And just as obviously, not all rich people have taste, but they can afford to buy an education.

6. We live in a time of class war. Certain people will practice reverse snobbism against luxury brands that develop too much mass appeal. These brands might have not changed in any value except snob value. I know of lots of self-styled gourmets who sniff at going to Ducasse because he is a "chain," but a Ducasse clone often manages to outcook 95% of independent chefs in their own locally-sourced kitchens. Ducasse is the Louis Vuitton of the food world in more ways than one. Some reactionary people write off luxury items altogether as overpriced foolery in a gesture of anti-aristocrat class hostility. Some insecure snobs fail to recognize quality in inexpensive things, mistaking them as being "cheap." Refer back to no. 3.

The upshot is, I think this replication is a trend with little end in sight, especially since food and bling are the two great modern obsessions. However, is it good or bad? eG can take comfort that it is in some way self-limiting. The minority cognoscienti, if they live in town, can play a role in keeping a chef honest, and as the general public learns more about food, they can demand better as well. I was raised in the food awakening of the US, and eventually London Nobu diners will become more demanding, and maybe NY diners will travel more to Sydney or Tokyo and get more demanding still. Learning takes time, and chefs are only as bad as the public allows them to be. Never in a million years will you have a 100% discriminating dining public, but they can learn.

I don't think it's right to say that it is "necessary" for restaurants to transmogrify--clearly many do not and are fine. There is just a lot of economic incentive to do so. Just as there is tremendous incentive for a great chef to raise prices. They don't HAVE to, but the point is, they CAN. There is a lot to detest about the inexorability of market forces, but controlled economies were never notorious for their great food either.

In fact, maybe everyone will be eating better for it. Vegas is the repository of pop culture extremes, and it's only to be expected that restaurants are parodying themselves there and everywhere. Is it bad? I don't know. I had a roommate from Vegas, and she's probably glad that now there at least a few decent places to eat in the desert. It's like Starbucks. Starbucks is the evil empire and all that, the coffee is bad and overpriced, but it's better than the previous endless wasteland of Nescafe and Maxwell House. It's not like Starbucks squeezed out the good independent baristas, because there weren't any at the time in the US. It is of course very hard for a small independent to enter the market, but then, it always has been. Ironically, the Starbucks backlash might now indeed help smaller, slightly better places like Peets gain a foothold. Who knows? Maybe someday there might be really good coffee in the US and the UK. I found a new single-estate Venezuelan cafe (Coupa Cafe) on Ramona Street in Palo Alto, CA that gives me hope. It would never have existed without Starbucks, which is 1 block away.

As for the travel issue, it's like saying what's the point of traveling when you can go to Epcot? If you can't tell the difference, maybe it makes more economic sense to go to Epcot.

People complain that one city is just like another, but they don't know how to travel, or they aren't willing to put in the research. I travel all the time to places full of cookie-cutter chains, and I almost always find terrific, unique places to eat. In fact, some of the best restaurants I know are in suburban strip malls. Why does it matter to me that the chains are going higher end?

[MarketStEl]

People complain that one city is just like another, but they don't know how to travel, or they aren't willing to put in the research. I travel all the time to places full of cookie-cutter chains, and I almost always find terrific, unique places to eat.  In fact, some of the best restaurants I know are in suburban strip malls. Why does it matter to me that the chains are going higher end?

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I see I changed my .sig quote just a bit too soon. (It had been a quote from Jane Jacobs, recounted in her obituary: "The most awful thing is when you go to a city and it's like 12 others you've seen.")

For better or worse, no one can say that about Las Vegas. It is to urbanism what hip-hop is to music. It serves up recognizable samples of other cities as part of a larger fantasy. It should be only natural, then, that the city extended this practice to other cities' fancy restaurants--and that chefs in those cities willingly played along.

[Philanthrophobe]

People complain that one city is just like another, but they don't know how to travel, or they aren't willing to put in the research. I travel all the time to places full of cookie-cutter chains, and I almost always find terrific, unique places to eat.  In fact, some of the best restaurants I know are in suburban strip malls. Why does it matter to me that the chains are going higher end?

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I see I changed my .sig quote just a bit too soon. (It had been a quote from Jane Jacobs, recounted in her obituary: "The most awful thing is when you go to a city and it's like 12 others you've seen.")

For better or worse, no one can say that about Las Vegas. It is to urbanism what hip-hop is to music. It serves up recognizable samples of other cities as part of a larger fantasy. It should be only natural, then, that the city extended this practice to other cities' fancy restaurants--and that chefs in those cities willingly played along.

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Las Vegas has worked hard to bill itself as the place where the middle class can be naughty (and maybe spy a drunk idiot like Paris Hilton doing something tiresome). In the process, we've become the Mall of America of restaurants. (--well, that and the place where anemic old rock groups go to die. Anyone up for a little Air Supply?)

Great article, jayrayner!

[John Whiting]

Without getting into class warfare, it's understandable that those who can't afford today's astronomically expensive restaurants will not be any more interested in them than they are in, say, the road test on the latest Rolls. One change that I've noticed within my own lifetime is that the cost spread between the bistro and the Michelin three-star has widened at the same accellerating rate as the income gap within most countries' populations. Middle class people not on expense account used to dine regularly at the top end--how often will even the most dedicated foodie spend a week's salary on a single meal? But there are thousands for whom the cost is as nothing. Today, Craig Claiborne's notorious $4,000 Paris banquet would barely rate a mention at the bottom of a society column.

As for Starbucks and local coffee shops, there was a well-documented article in the Washington Post a few years back naming places where Starbucks had deliberately moved into well-served areas and undercut the locals until they were driven out of business, whereupon their prices went back to normal. Same old story, including the plummeting of standards; I used to drink Starbucks' wonderful coffee in Seattle before Howard Schultz finally talked them into selling out. (He told his story, fulsomely, in Readers Digest, August 1998.)

[BigboyDan]

Culinista, WOW! What a spot on post.

Fact is, chains have a clientle, including those who'll only stay at The Four Seasons... the "traveller" is, indeed, a breed himself.

[Bobby 2 Shakes]

Wow.  Howard Johnson and Joel Robuchon had/have the same vision...

it seems that people are people at all income levels.

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Maybe if Howard Johnson had cameras to monitor quality they'd still be flourishing today.

Spreading high quality over a broader spectrum just raises the bar in a different dimension. It is a wise chef who protects the brand after having established it as a touchstone.

A much deeper (and well-researched) discussion of this topic just came out last week in Michael Ruhlman's

Reach of a Chef