Learning About Rhones

[LaNiña]

In another thread, Steve P. said he would share more info on Rhone wines. I'd love to hear it. I'd like to know about things ready for drinking now, moderately priced, that people are particularly enjoying.

[Wilfrid]

While I think it's unfair to expect Steve to supply a free wine-buying guide service, I second your impulse Nina. Hope he has an opportunity to reply.

[LaNiña]

Hey, he volunteered to give more information - oh c'mon, he loves talking about wine, no? Steve? I didn't mean to impose.

[Blue Heron]

You can add me to the list of people who would also love to learn more about Rhone wines, if anyone is willing to share their knowledge. Steve P. mentioned on another thread that he likes wines that have codification (if I have said that correctly?). How are Rhone wines codified, and what does that mean?

What are some of our members favorite Cotes du Rhone wines, and what about them makes it a favorite?

[Brad S]

Hi Nina,

I'm kind of new to eGullet,and have very much enjoyed reading these wine threads.

I also love wine very much,and the wine of the Rhone are some of my favorites.

I particulry enjoy the Northern rhone wine from the Cotes-du-rhone.

The quality pyramid for this region goes like this,at the base you will find the cotes-du-rhone appellation manly from the lower reaches of the river,a step above you have cotes-du-rhone-villages.Products of a total of 95 communes in the departments of drome,gard and vaucluse belong to this group,with 16 communes of the AC designation being able to add there own village names to this.At the top are the "crus"geographically demarcated appelations such as gigondas or Cote-rotie,whose lables no longer bear any reference to there belonging to the rhone family. IMHO Syrah is the king of the red grapes in Rhone,as marsanne,rousanne and viognier make there wonderful whites.One of my all time favorite producers is E, Guigal..now run by Marcel guigal.He produces wines in almost every price range from his cotes-du-rhones to his single vineyard La Turque,and his hermitage and cote-brunes.

I love cornas and st joseph as well as crozes-hermitages.Other northen rhone producers I love are Clape,Chapoutier,yves cuilleron,perret and grippat.

Thers also a bountiful selection of Southren rhones as well,look for clos du joncuas Gigondas,B,alarys Cairanne and wonderful Tavels and beaumes-de- venise. Ch neuf du papes by nerthe and janasse are outstanding as well as rayas. I hope this helps a little bit.the most important thing is to just drink what taste good to you

[tommy]

While I think it's unfair to expect Steve to supply a free wine-buying guide service, I second your impulse Nina.  Hope he has an opportunity to reply.

yeah, getting him to talk about himself or talk in general is going to be like pulling teeth.

[LaNiña]

The Guigal cotes-du-rhone is my house wine, of late. Or the cote rotie. Around the corner from my office is Union Square Wines - they sell half bottles of the cotes-du-rhone, I get those a lot. I had a wonderful Gigondas at Le Gigot a month or so ago. Didn't write it down, but it was delicious.

I need to expand my Rhone horizons.

[tommy]

what does one do with a half bottle of anything? baffling.

[hollywood]

what does one do with a half bottle of anything?  baffling.

Inhale it. Just consider it an appetizer.

[Ron Johnson]

Producers to avoid in my book are Guigal and Chapoutier. They don't make bad wines, just very new world style and not indicative of the region.

I like these producers:

Cote Rotie: Ogier, Jamet, Jasmin, Gilles Barge

Hermitage: J.L. Chave

Cornas: Voge, Clape

Crozes Hermitage: Alain Graillot, Gilles Robin

St. Joseph: De Boiysett (sp?), Alain Graillot

Gigondas: Le Hauts de Montmirail, Domaine St. Luc

Chateauneuf du Pape: La Nerthe, Beacastel, Vieux Telegraph, Eric Texier,

Cote du Rhone: Chateau Trignon

Importers to buy from are: Robert Kacher, Eric Solomon, Peter Weygandt, and Kermit Lynch.

[Beachfan]

I'll comment on the southern Rhone.

For beginners, the best way to learn about the Rhone wines is to buy different Cotes du Rhones that are around $10-$20. They are mostly Grenache and the 1998, 99, and 2000 vintages were all stellar. It's rare that you'll get a bad bottle.

Cote du Rhones is made from grapes outside the more elite appelations but within the regional appelation. If you want a couple of particular suggestions, I just had Janasse Cote du Rhone Vielle Vigne 2000, just superb,and under $20. It comes from vineyards just barely outside the boundaries of Chateauneuf du Pape. Less expensive is Beaurenard Rasteau 1999 (although I'm sure 2000) is good. Also Santa Duc.

Next level up pricewise is Gigondas. This is a specific appelation around the town (also one of the prettiest spots in the Southern Rhone). Producers I enjoy are Brusset, Pesquier, Raspail-Ay, Santa Duc, and especially St. Cosme. Usually $15 to $20 or a little more. Again 98, 99, 2000 should all be good.

Next level up in price is Chateauneuf du Pape, again mostly Grenache. There are plenty of great ones - Pegau, Clos du Pape, Les, Cailloux, Clos de Caillou, Jannasse, Beaurenard Cuvee Boisrenard, and of course Beaucastel. (the 2000s are just being released and are a little better than the 1999s). Except for Janasse, I've been getting these for around $35 (they used to be $10 less before the public got wise to them last year or so). Except for some Italian wines, I think these are the best values in the marketplace.

Above that is the luxury cuvees of CdP, such as Chateau Mordoree La Reine du Bois. The market price for these is now extremely high, and availability miniscule. No need to chase these unless you are really devoted to wine.

There are some interesting white wines (Rousanne, Marrsanne). The best is from Beaucastel, but it's pricey. La Nerthe also makes a nice white (usually a nice red too)

Easiest way to get a list of great producers is to go to the Wine Spectators Rating Search and look up Chateauneuf du Papes rated 90 and above. While I don't advocate their scores in general, everybody has loved the Southern Rhone wines in 98,99 and 2000, so you won't go wrong.

The only comment I'll make on the Northern Rhone is on Condrieu. If you can land a bottle of Condrieu by Vernay, Cuilleron or Delas, you are in for a real treat. One of the best summer wines, and it's incredible complexity and floral declicate nature makes it worth it's high price tag ($35 to $75). Drink within 2 years of release, it definitely doesn't age.

Wine Spectator Rating Search

[Beachfan]

what does one do with a half bottle of anything?  baffling.

Actually, it's my favorite size. I'd rather have a half bottle of a great wine than a full bottle of an ok wine.

Assuming I'm not sharing that is.

[tommy]

what does one do with a half bottle of anything?  baffling.

Actually, it's my favorite size. I'd rather have a half bottle of a great wine than a full bottle of an ok wine.

Assuming I'm not sharing that is.

i'd rather have a full bottle of great wine.

[Beachfan]

what does one do with a half bottle of anything?  baffling.

Actually, it's my favorite size. I'd rather have a half bottle of a great wine than a full bottle of an ok wine.

Assuming I'm not sharing that is.

i'd rather have a full bottle of great wine.

Wouldn't you really prefer two bottles of great wine?

[LaNiña]

Thank you, thank you everybody. This is exactly what I meant.

[Blue Heron]

Producers to avoid in my book are Guigal and Chapoutier.  They don't make bad wines, just very new world style and not indicative of the region.

A novice question... how does the new world style of Rhone wines compare with the old world style with regards to taste? Is one more flavorful than the other? Or are there other characteristics that separate them?

Nina, thanks for starting this thread. I've already learned 100% more than I knew before.

[Brad S]

Producers to avoid in my book are Guigal and Chapoutier.  They don't make bad wines, just very new world style and not indicative of the region.

A novice question... how does the new world style of Rhone wines compare with the old world style with regards to taste? Is one more flavorful than the other? Or are there other characteristics that separate them?

Nina, thanks for starting this thread. I've already learned 100% more than I knew before.

How old is old?

Few regions in France can boast of a winegrowing tradition as ancient as the Rhone valley.The phoceans who founded Marseille in 600bc already new the the region was particulaery suitible for viticulture,and the planted vines.Under the rule of the romans,who were supposed to have learnt the art of improvment from the gauls,viticulture then spread to the central and northern part of the valley,where the gaulish tribes were certainly cultivating vines in 71 ad in cotes-du-rhone and hermitage areas.

However the career of the cotes-du-rhone wines was checked by the powerful duchy of burgundy,which wanted to supply it's own wines to the most important markets in Londan and paris.They therefore impposed high transport duties on the rhone wines,or banned there transport down the only route avalible at the time,the saone,as was the position from the 14th to the 16th centeries.Only in the 17th century,when the conditions for overland transport improved,and still more in the 19th century when the first railways were built,did rhone wines become popular in Paris. The period after the second world war brought a dramatic loss of image.The cheap sourses of wines from the former french colonies of North Africa,used for blending wines to improve there color and streinght,dried up,promting many bordeaux Ch (illegally) to try rhone wines instead.Slack sales in the barreled wine market did really motivate growers in the valley to develope there own qualities.What reached consumerss under the cote-du-rhone label were at best simple but drinkable reds in the lowest price brackettes.It was only in the 1980s that growers reliezed the size of the potential avalible to them thanks to their unique terroir and still better grape varities.There is an amazing history behind these wines,and it is a valuble lesson to try rhones that are still produced in the fashion in which they were intended,instead of becoming to Americanized to satify our palette.

I firmly stand by Guigal as one of the finest of all producers in the Valley,and am quite comfortible recommending M.Chapoutier as well,see if you can fin Chapotiers Tain l"Hermitage as have a problem not enjoying it emensly

[Steve Plotnicki]

Wow some of this is great stuff. A Caped Chef really knows his Rhones. Maybe he should change his pseudonym to A Corked Chef? I've been out all day and I have stuff to add to what is written so far but I am about to leave for the Island and I will try and post later. Didn't want you to think I was ignoring the question.

[LaNiña]

Wow some of this is great stuff. A Caped Chef really knows his Rhones. Maybe he should change his pseudonym to A Corked Chef?  I've been out all day and I have stuff to add to what is written so far but I am about to leave for the Island and I will try and post later. Didn't want you to think I was ignoring the question.

a sheynem dank.

[Wilfrid]

what does one do with a half bottle of anything?  baffling.

Drink it between courses.

[Priscilla]

what does one do with a half bottle of anything?  baffling.

After you suck the original contents back in one fell draught, the bottle perfectly suits 8 oz. of peppercorns. Makes refilling peppermills very easy and neat.

Wow enjoying this Rhoney discussion looking forward to more.

[Beachfan]

Some links

Description of appelations

Vins Rhone

Chateau Beaucastel

Guigal

[Lesley C]

I just returned from a trip to this region, including tastings at Beaucastel, Janasse, Gramenon, Meffre, Beaurenard and more. It's amazing how many treasures you can discover. I promise when I have time to write up the whole thing. I didn't even know the difference between a Cotes du Rhone Villages and a Cotes du Rhone when I got there. Plenty to learn

[tommy]

After you suck the original contents back in one fell draught, the bottle perfectly suits 8 oz. of peppercorns.  Makes refilling peppermills very easy and neat.

i think i just fell in love all over again.

[Beachfan]

I just returned from a trip to this region, including tastings at Beaucastel, Janasse, Gramenon, Meffre, Beaurenard and more. It's amazing how many treasures you can discover. I promise when I have time to write up the whole thing. I didn't even know the difference between a Cotes du Rhone Villages and a Cotes du Rhone when I got there. Plenty to learn

Has everyone released there 2000 CdPs yet? I'm going in September and I hope they'll still have them available.