New York interloper threatens our way of eating

[Kim WB]

Thuman's baloney is like no other..it's all I ate in my grade school lunches, with cheez wiz. My grown up palette has never tried it, unfortunatley.

I prefer all of D&W beef products...and all of BH Turkey products ( sausiitto is a favorite) ...but neither has a ham compared tothe Trenton Farmer's market's Puaski's Meats...also all sliced cheeses suck except Cooper Sharp. so perhaps my palette has changed since my cheez wiz days!

[MarketStEl]

I've never done a side by side comparison of Dietz and Watson and Boars Head. Or Thumann's. I've heard that Thumann's is pretty popular in Philadelphia. One of the more popular hoagie joints there uses this brand. They also make the best beef/pork frank.

Best Provisions out of Newark also makes quality beef products. Franks, burgers, pastrami, corned beef, and roast beef. I don't know if they are available in Philly, but just this past week I learned from the plant manager at Best that the private label pastrami, roast beef, and corned beef sold at Wegman's is from Best.

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I know that Primo's is one of the city's best hoagie shops, and I also know that Primo's uses Thumann's, but I can't say I've seen lots of other places around here that do. D&W definitely dominates, and all the others--Hatfield, Thumann's, Freda--are minority choices. And of those three, the frequency of distribution appears to me to be: Freda, Thumann's, Hatfield.

I've never seen Best's deli meats in this area.

[MarketStEl]

Thuman's baloney is like no other..it's all I ate in my grade school lunches, with cheez wiz.  My grown up palette has never tried it, unfortunatley. 

I prefer all of D&W beef products...and all of BH Turkey products ( sausiitto is a favorite) ...but neither has a ham compared tothe Trenton Farmer's market's Puaski's Meats...also all sliced cheeses suck except Cooper Sharp. so perhaps my palette has changed since my cheez wiz days! 

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This is one of those times when I will direct you to Whole Foods Market for something, namely, their deli Cheddar, which is Tillamook from Oregon.

I note that Tillamook cheese in prepacked half-pound bricks has begun to appear on Philadelphia-area supermarket shelves. As supermarket Cheddar goes, this brand's the best I've had yet--better than Cabot, even.

[MarketStEl]

Update on the Boar's Head/Dietz & Watson Tango:

Super Fresh deli counters--or at least those at their two Center City locations--once again have Dietz & Watson deli meats in their 'premium' section. Knowing Philadelphians' attraction to old familiar names, I'm guessing that sales fell when they switched to Boar's Head last summer.

And yet Boar's Head continues to stake out new territory in this area. 11th and Spruce, for instance. There's a new deli/convenience food market at the corner space that once housed Wok & Tofu before the apartment building that contained it burnt down. Called Spruce Rana, and (AIUI) related to a simliarly named deli/market in Society Hill (or was it Old City?), the store features a good selection of Asian specialty fare in addition to the usual upscale convenience store items. The store had an open house for the neighborhood last Saturday where they served a number of very tasty seafood-and-noodle salads and Korean dishes that they said would be on their menu of prepared foods to take out. I'm waiting for the kimchi ravioli they served that night to reappear. Today was the store's first official day in business. They have a full deli counter, carrying Boar's Head exclusively. The owner/manager asked me when I placed my order whether I had heard of Applegate Farms. I said I had but had never tried their products. She told me that several customers had asked them to stock Applegate and that she was looking into it. I told her that I thought that Boar's Head was an excellent line, and she agreed, adding that she thought it superior to Applegate as well. Their prices are pretty good for a shop that stocks Boar's Head, which can often run slightly higher than D&W (not the case at this market).

[rlibkind]

The owner/manager asked me when I placed my order whether I had heard of Applegate Farms.  I said I had but had never tried their products.  She told me that several customers had asked them to stock Applegate and that she was looking into it.  I told her that I thought that Boar's Head was an excellent line, and she agreed, adding that she thought it superior to Applegate as well.

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Applegate is a supplier of "natural" deli-style meats to Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, etc. They are based in central NJ and purport to use meat from small farms in PA and Canada.

[JohnL]

Dietz and Watson seems to have replaced Boars Head at the Food Emporium on 57th Street and Ninth Avenue here in New York City. This location is struggling to compete with the Whole Foods in the TW Center.

(I am not sure if all Food Emporiums here are switching to D&W).

At first--I did not take to the D&W offerings but I must admit they are growing on me.

I intend to do a head to head taste test with the ever present Boars Head for myself.

I will report back!!!

By the way--I am curious--what cold cuts are utilized on the hoagies around Philly. I remember incredible sandwiches from delis around Woodland Avenue (Cobbs Creek Parkway) as well as at Jim's streaks and others.

IMOP-the Italian sandwiches (hero's)here in New York can be great but for overall consistancy the Philly versions are better. Also the bread in Philly for these sandwiches is better than most offered here in NYC which is often too dense and chewy.

Edited February 4, 2007 by JohnL (log)

[CoolPapaBell]

Bust my buttons, it's all my fault as per this thread

I won't even ask about Gonnella rolls. I could be banned at the Mason-Dixon Line.

I don't know if Boar's Head demand's exclusivity any more. Zagara’s (RIP) used to carry their own brand with Boar’s Head and I know Publixes (or is it Publi?) down here has their in-house brand.

Boar’s Head is the best commercial brand and with roast beef it’s no contest. I do prefer Citterio as someone else mentioned for the Italian meats. Perhaps it’s contracted to a major brand, but the Wegman’s brand sandwich they made was quite impressive.

[MarketStEl]

Dietz and Watson seems to have replaced Boars Head at the Food Emporium on 57th Street and Ninth Avenue here in New York City. This location is struggling to compete with the Whole Foods in the TW Center.

(I am not sure if all Food Emporiums here are switching to D&W).

At first--I did not take to the D&W offerings but I must admit they are growing on me.

I intend to do a head to head taste test with the ever present Boars Head for myself.

I will report back!!!

D&W must have cut a really good deal with someone in Montvale, N.J. If there's a plain old A&P near you, stop in sometime and see what's in their deli case.

(The A&P family of supermarket chains includes, besides the namesake chain, Super Fresh, Waldbaum's, Farmer Jack and Food Emporium.)

And by all means, do report back. If you're like the rest of us, you may still find D&W acceptable after your head-to-head comparison, but you will probably find it disappointing next to Boar's Head.

By the way--I am curious--what cold cuts are utilized on the hoagies around Philly. I remember incredible sandwiches from delis around Woodland Avenue (Cobbs Creek Parkway) as well as at Jim's streaks and others.

Hmmmm...Woodland Avenue and Cobbs Creek Parkway...there's a historic house on the Cobbs Creek Park corner of the intersection that dates to the 1760s--it may have been an inn but is vacant now--but I don't recall any hoagie shops last time I passed through the intersection.

No matter. As I believe I mentioned in my post that began this topic, Dietz & Watson is far and away the choice of most local hoagie makers, and because of this, it becomes clear just how much the bread matters. I've had some dynamite hoagies composed of D&W cold cuts on great bread, and I'd consider these equal to or better than other hoagies consisting of better quality meats on worse bread.

But, as indicated in other posts, the best hoagie makers use other suppliers. Primo--one of the best in the city--uses Thumann's. Planet Hoagie--a fave of mine before their Center City location closed--uses Hatfield. (Both Primo and Planet Hoagie have won "Best of Philly" hoagie honors from Philadelphia magazine.) Freda--a local producer whose meats I have yet to try--is another popular supplier in this area. I've yet to see a well-regarded Philly hoagie maker that uses Boar's Head, though--it appears to me that most of the shops around here that carry Boar's Head in their deli case specialize in prepared foods other than hoagies, if they sell ready-to-eat items at all.

As Spruce Rana (see post #29) does make hoagies, I will have the opportunity to further research the relative roles the meat and the bread play in making a hoagie. I'm pretty sure they don't use the city's best hoagie rolls (see below).

IMOP-the Italian sandwiches (hero's)here in New York can be great but for overall consistancy the Philly versions are better. Also the bread in Philly for these sandwiches is better than most offered here in NYC which is often too dense and chewy.

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Maybe you can convince the Sarcones to follow Stephen Starr and Tony Luke up your way.

In addition to running their own hoagie shop a half block up 9th Street from their bakery (they use Dietz & Watson), Sarcone's supplies bread to several of the city's best hoagie shops, including Primo. Their bread is nice, airy and crusty and stands up well to the meats, cheeses and salad. And good bread is one thing all the best hoagies in this town share, regardless whose cold cuts fill that bread.

Edited to fix subject-verb agreement.

Edited February 6, 2007 by MarketStEl (log)

[JohnL]

Thanks for all the info.

My reference to Cobbs Creek parkway was more a reference to the general area. Most of the places I recall were on Woodland Avenue and side streets in that area.

As my father was from Philly, I had relatives there and spent summers in a row house adjacent to the cemetery!

I agree that with sandwiches the bread is critical as well as the construction technique--these are IMOP often more important than the ingredients inside. It seems to me that Philly gets this right--most of the hoagies I have had (we're talkin quite a few) had great bread and were constructed so as to be lighter and tastier overall--there was air in the way the meats and cheese were layered etc.

There was definitely something about the food in Philadelphia--the Hoagies and cheese steaks and soft pretzels and Tastycakes and Breyer's ice cream (before they were bought and sold) scooped from a bulk container and all this with the Phillies game on every neighborhood radio in the background!!! --sort of "Rosebud" for me!