Espresso machine for small restaurant

[Beto]

One man's take on the level of espresso at Bouchon.

[lancastermike]

First off, as a general rule bad espresso is a lot worse than bad or indifferent coffee. This is why hardly anyone in America drinks espresso -- because 99.9% of it is too bad to qualify as swill.

In the past few weeks I have eaten at a couple of very nice places, one locally and one in Baltimore. What Sam says above rings true. Why is it not possible to get a decent espresso? I am to the point that I don't even try much anymore. I'm just glad to get a good cup of coffee, and even that ain't easy.

Musina said that he did not think most people cared. Most people don't care about lots of things, but if a place claims to be one of the better places around and does have good food and service please pay attention to the coffee.

Espresso is not easy to make well. Everytime I pull a shot at home I see that. It may be that at most restaurants of whatever quality there is no individual who has any real interest in the coffee. The Chef cares about the food, the bartender about the drinks, and the servers about service. Coffee in places I worked is often an orphan. To make good espresso SOMEBODY has to care enough, and be trained enough, and have time enough to do so. I think at most places there is not anyone who fills that role

Edited April 20, 2006 by lancastermike (log)

[Paul Stanley]

I am late to this party, and a mere coffee drinker (no expert) but ...

I would second the French press idea. Among other things, I don't really think of espresso as an after-dinner restaurant drink. A good espresso is a shot; it's drunk quickly, on the go. An Italian espresso is not much more than a tablespoon of liquid (the experts will know how much). It's not a drink to linger over, really just a few mouthfuls. After dinner I want something more than that. I want something that will take 10 minutes to drink. Not a milky drink, not even a mug of coffee, but a small cup of strong black coffee. French press sounds good for that. I stayed at a lovely hotel recently, and the coffee was all French press. It was really delicious.

Secondly, it makes sense to have hot water available because you need to be able to offer tea or tisanes for those who don't like to drink coffee late at night. So you will need the boiler anyway. In which case it is an economical use of equipment to use French presses.

But ... the one thing I would say is that although French press may be easier to make a decent cup with than an espresso machine, people do still need to take care. It's quite possible to make bad French press coffee too!

[slkinsey]

I would second the French press idea. Among other things, I don't really think of espresso as an after-dinner restaurant drink. A good espresso is a shot; it's drunk quickly, on the go. An Italian espresso is not much more than a tablespoon of liquid (the experts will know how much). It's not a drink to linger over, really just a few mouthfuls.

Welcome to eGullet on your first post, Paul.

Although this is going a little off the main topic of this thread, I both agree and disagree with what you're saying here. I do agree that there is little more to an espresso than a quick few swallows of coffee. But, that's just the point. Coffee is unlikely to be the last thing you have in an Italian or Spanish dinner. It is likely to be followed by something like grappa or orujo, and that is the drink to linger over.

[Mussina]

Thanks everyone for all the input. I bought a couple of individual 3 cup presses that I am experimenting with and the initial results were mixed. I am also using some beans that I am sampling from a local roasting company (Grand Italia here in Connecticut) so I am throwing a bunch of variables in there at once. First try was too weak -- I think the grind was too course. Second try I liked a lot. My husband was not a fan initially. He thinks it has a different mouth feel than the coffee we are just to drinking (Starbucks ground in a $12 grinder and a drip coffee maker). You do worry that people are so used to the starbucks of the world that anything different will be interpreted as not good but that is true with anything. Someone who only eats frozen vegetables might think stuff right out of the garden tastes weird. (Reminds me of a line in LA Story when Steve Martin is commenting on a certain body part of Sarah Jessica Parker's and says that they feel "weird" -- She says "I know - they're real")

Back on topic - any French Press advice? Ideal coffee to water ratio?

[Paul Stanley]

Welcome to eGullet on your first post, Paul.

Thank you. Always a scary moment. And I'm sure you're right: the place of coffee in a meal varies from culture to culture. I think that affects what type of coffee seems right.

[slkinsey]

Back on topic - any French Press advice?  Ideal coffee to water ratio?

Mussina, look no further than our thread on Press Pot/French Press Coffee & post any further questions you might have on French Press coffee in that thread.

[phaelon56]

And I'm sure you're right: the place of coffee in a meal varies from culture to culture. I think that affects what type of coffee seems right.

←

Yes indeed - we're very glad to have you here Paul. And delighted that you're joining in the conversation!

When I finally got my first chance to visit Paris a few short years ago the coffee was mostly abysmal. When I ordered "un cafe" to have as an apertif before dinner while my girlfriend drank her Kir Royale the waiter looked at me as though I were from Mars! If I recall correctly a few guys even came out from the kitchen to take a peek at what kind of crazy American would do such a bizarre thing (it was a place frequented mostly by locals).

Back on topic - any French Press advice? Ideal coffee to water ratio?

You may find some helpful information here on the French Press Brewing Thread

Thanks to our ever helpful pinned Coffee Topics index

7 grams of coffee (two level tablespoons or one standard coffee measure) to 5 or 6 ounces of water is the standard for drip coffee. Most folks use a trifle more than that for French Press but check the discussion - there are many other factors involved that will help you achieve best results.

And just as I've had bad drip coffee and bad espresso in some very fine restaurants I have also been served some abominable French Press Coffee in a supposedly fine dining restaurant (which will emain nameless but it's just up the street from Gramercy tavern in NYC).

Here's a place that's doing it the right way - Restaurant Eve in Oldtown Alexandria VA

Here's an excerpt from another eGullet thread in a different forum section

(cleverly edited to remove the part where I had made a fool of myself by insisting that there were no restaurants in which I could get really good coffee done the right way).

Member T.Thrasher is Todd Thasher - the beverage Director at Eve.

We think the coffee portion of our service is very important, remember it is the last course you usually get in a restaurant. I have to thank Vincent Iatesta the owner and Roast master of Café Pronto. So onward with our coffee program at Restaurant Eve

1) We use Café Pronto in Annapolis Maryland, We order our coffee on Friday they roast on Monday and we get it on Tuesday.

2) We actually use containers that have hermetic airtight seals that open at both ends so we always have the first in first out mentality, stored at room temperature.

3) We do not actually weigh the beans for each use; we use three different measuring cups for each size press pot we offer.

4) We grind for each order.

5) We have a water tower that dispenses water at 203 Degrees F

6) We offer 4 coffees (Plus 2 espresso blends)1 Decaf, Decaf Colombia smooth and light, and 3 caffenated coffees, Mokha Java, Classic Blend of Yemen Mocca and Indonesian Java. Rich, Full Body, Complex & Sweet with Cherry & Chocolate, Eve’s Blend Med-Light Roasted, Good Body, Zippy Acidity. Oh yeah that single origin estate type coffee, Esmeralda Special – Panama It comes from Hacienda La Esmeralda in the Boquete region of Panama.

7) We only use press pots and not an ordinary glass pot, we use Frieling press pots that are insulated (which I have never seen in a coffee shop)

Please remember there may be lots of independent coffee houses in north America that can fulfill every condition on your list as far as the coffee service, but I know of none where I can get a Braised Pork Belly and then an Esmeralda Special! There are a lot of restaurants that take their coffee service seriously but we also have a lot of other things to take seriously also not just coffee and pastries.