The rehabilitation of a failed baker

[jackal10]

Thank you Jackal , I am glad that isnt me  ,well maybe is a little bit me , but anyway I will follow your suggestions and experience this will be my first time making bread out of sourdough starter and I am kinda concerned about the process, I guess the only way to do it its to try and try like Gerhard is doing.

Does the fact that my starter its made entirely out of whole rye flour, I will make only rye or wheat breads?? I wanted to do  rustic type of bread with a nice crust and lots of hole inside ( like the italian pagnotta ) I know that the oven unfortunally will play a big role in that and I am afraid mine wont help me to achieve what I want. Will a baking stone help diffusing the heat more evenly?

Thank you for your precius advice )

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Yes, a baking stone will help lots, especially if you bake directly in contact with it (or on baking parchment on the stone). It provides thermal inertia, and good heat transfer to the base of the bread. That helps the spring.

You can use a rye starter to bake both rye and wheat breads. I know bakers who maintain their primary starter using rye. Since you only use a little in the bread (10g in 1.2Kg) it doesn't speckle the bread much, and allows them to make wheat-free breads. However I would start with wheat doughs. Rye dough is much stickier and harder to handle.

[Tepee]

What a relief! I can cancel the exorcism.

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What? We don't get to see a witch doctor? No added local flavour?

LOL, glad to see that the battle's half won. Getting the champagne ready......

Edited April 13, 2006 by Tepee (log)

[gsquared]

What? We don't get to see a witch doctor? No added local flavour?

LOL, glad to see that the battle's half won. Getting the champagne ready......

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If I don't get a decent loaf today, you may yet see a traditional healer in action. In the Zulu culture the healer is called a Sangoma, and amongst the Xhosa people (where I live), it is an Igqirha. (The g is pronounced "k", the q is a click and the h is a "g":- "eek-click-eerga"). If you think that is difficult, you should try "uqongqothwane" - the knock knock beetle from "the click song".

I am planning a simple dinner tonight: cheeses, olives, tea smoked chicken breast with a mango salsa. Chilled pink Brillecart-Salmon. All with a freshly baked baguette.

[jackal10]

Don't overprove!

The dough should barely double. It will double again in the oven...

[gsquared]

Don't overprove!

The dough should barely double. It will double again in the oven...

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I'll be careful. This is where your 100g-in-a-jar comes in handy.

[Kouign Aman]

Hooray! The yeastie boys live! Fresh bread is in your future! (not -to -distant, I hope). I will be borrowing that jar-gauge idea, thank you kindly.

[gsquared]

The yeast in the preferment was so enthusiatically multiplying that I mixed the dough after 8 hours. I used the table top mixer because it was the easiest method, given the gumming up of the food processor. After 4 (yes, four) hours, the jar guage looked like this:

Given what Jack said about "barely double" I decided to bake. The bread is in the oven. I am cautiously optimistic.

Any explanation for the lengthly rise, Jack?

[Kouign Aman]

All my fingers and toes are crossed in good luck wishes. :tenterhooks:

[gsquared]

Oh yes, I almost forgot.

1. Flouring the couche with rice flour worked well. No sticking at all.

2. Semolina on the peel was another great idea.

In all, these suggestions made the process of extracting the loaves from the couche and slipping them onto the baking plate totally painless. Thanks.

[devlin]

I just started my rye sourdough and its looking good ( i got it form Hamelmann book ),now I am reading it and reading it , and one thing isnt too clear ( I need to read more ), after my starter is ready,and I get a piece for my bread what do I do with the rest to propagate it ? Put in the fridge and refresh it every 12 hours as usuall? Not too sure about that step.

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Jack's already responded pretty thoroughly to you above, but I did want to stress again that Wood's Classic Sourdoughs was probably the best resource for me in figuring out, pretty simply, how to cultivate and maintain and refresh a sourdough culture. I like Hamelman very much (I mean, what's not to like? he's a fabulous resource), but for me, Wood was simpler to follow for a truly novice baker.

[gsquared]

The result: sort of ok. It is too dense, and I did not get as much oven spring as expected. I am not sure whether this is due to under- or overproving. Jack? The taste is fine.

The loaf got bent a bit going onto the baking plate.

[devlin]

The result: sort of ok. It is too dense, and I did not get as much oven spring as expected. I am not sure whether this is due to under- or overproving. Jack? The taste is fine.

The loaf got bent a bit going onto the baking plate.

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Your signature shape -- a bent loaf! Go for it!

I'm still liking what I see. How much handling?

[gsquared]

Your signature shape -- a bent loaf! Go for it!

I'm still liking what I see. How much handling?

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I have been loathe to invest time and effort at getting sorted with a decent peel. Bent loaves is the penalty you pay for makeshift equipment.

Not much handling - 5 mins in the stand mixer, rest for 15 mins, fold for 30 secs, rest for 15, shape.

I have munched a few more pieces. The texture leaves a lot be desired, but, note this down somebody, this is the first bread I have ever produced that is eminently edible.

[Kouign Aman]

Originally posted by gsquared:

note this down somebody, this is the first bread I have ever produced that is eminently edible.

Duly noted. Congratulations!!!!

That loaf looks like its reaching out to hug you.

<editted to provide attribution (and correct formatting ) >

Edited April 13, 2006 by Kouign Aman (log)

[K8memphis]

Whooo hoooo hoooo

!!!!Multiplied Congratulations!!!!

Stay tuned for the futher adventures of:

"The Sea Gulls Are Crying Themselves To Sleep Tonight!!!"

or

"The Curse of The Gull...Lifted"

[jackal10]

It lives!

It could be a bit underproved still - I guess you just have to experiment as to what suits your environment. The crust is very red, which indicates there are still fermentable sugars.

Other things that help get bigger holes:

Hotter base - maybe bricks or tiles or a pizza stone in the oven

Wetter dough if you can handle it

You can also try 10 mins in the stand mixer - the dough should pick up on the hook, then release and start sticking to the sides. At that point its ready. Then fold and shape it straight away, no need to pause.

Alternatively (and this may be better for you) mix for one minute or less just until everything is incorporated and even, without developing the gluten. Then fold, rest, fold, rest, fold, shape as now.

Enjoy the Billecart-Salmon Rose. One of the nicest Champagnes I think, Will you use a sabre to open it?

Edited April 13, 2006 by jackal10 (log)

[Lori in PA]

I am SOOOO pleased for you, Gerhard. Edible bread! Think of it! What is the Artist's assessment?

[gsquared]

It lives!

It could be a bit underproved still - I guess you just have to experiment as to what suits your environment. The crust is very red, which indicates there are still fermentable sugars.

Other things that help get bigger holes:

Hotter base - maybe bricks or tiles or a pizza stone in the oven

Wetter dough if you can handle it

Enjoy the Billecart-Salmon Rose. One of the nicest Champagnes I think, Will you use a sabre to open it?

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I also have a feeling that it may be underproved. From here on, at least I am in a position to experiment meaningfully.

Thanks Jack:- this has moved me a quantum leap forward. I am of good cheer and will continue to work at it. Maybe, just maybe, I will in the next few weeks produce a loaf that I will be truly proud of. This is all due to your prodding, advice, and the encouragement of the eG community. When next I post on my bread, it will be to report perfection.

I have returned the Brillecart to its brethren in the wine cooler. The result today is cause for only a minor celebration. Hence a Pol Roget seemed more appropriate. Opened conventionally.

Again, thanks to all. The seagulls are circling disconsolately....

[gsquared]

I am SOOOO pleased for you, Gerhard.  Edible bread!  Think of it!  What is the Artist's assessment?

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The Artist is impressed. She wolfed down a goodly portion with butter and declared that she would like a repeat. Daily. Shows you in what dire straits even modest success can place you!

[gsquared]

Whooo hoooo hoooo

!!!!Multiplied Congratulations!!!!

Stay tuned for the futher adventures of:

"The Sea Gulls Are Crying Themselves To Sleep Tonight!!!"

or

"The Curse of The Gull...Lifted"

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For the nonce, K, I will desist boring you with a daily report. Thanks for your encouragement.

[jackal10]

Another thing I am currently experimenting with is the amount of the flour that is used in the preferment. I've had good results with doubling it, thus the preferment is 200g flour, 200g water, and the dough is correspondingly 400g flour, 220g water.

Softer flour (use ordinary pastry flour) will also give you bigger holes.

Be warned...bread making and good bread is addictive

[devlin]

Your signature shape -- a bent loaf! Go for it!

I'm still liking what I see. How much handling?

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I have been loathe to invest time and effort at getting sorted with a decent peel. Bent loaves is the penalty you pay for makeshift equipment.

Not much handling - 5 mins in the stand mixer, rest for 15 mins, fold for 30 secs, rest for 15, shape.

I have munched a few more pieces. The texture leaves a lot be desired, but, note this down somebody, this is the first bread I have ever produced that is eminently edible.

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Well I'm glad I can stop pacing. And start cleaning my pasture instead.... Wait, that can't be right. I might would rather pace.

Anyway, on the heels of Jack's comments, I'm expecting we might hear next you've hired somebody to take over the handling of the inn so you can make time for handling more dough.

Congrats. It makes me glad.

[Anna N]

WHEW! At last. And you will NEVER go back but move ever onwards and upwards. Congratulations.

[gsquared]

Another thing I am currently experimenting with is the amount of the flour that is used in the preferment. I've had good results with doubling it, thus the preferment is 200g flour, 200g water, and the dough is correspondingly 400g flour, 220g water.

Softer flour (use ordinary pastry flour) will also give you bigger holes.

Be warned...bread making and good bread is addictive

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And if I become an addict, Jack, you will be held responsible. And have to live with that awful burden for the rest of your life.

[gsquared]

Anyway, on the heels of Jack's comments, I'm expecting we might hear next you've hired somebody to take over the handling of the inn so you can make time for handling more dough.

Congrats. It makes me glad.

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Devlin, I owe you a special word of thanks. You post still haunts me. I am generally coldly analytical and logical. I am still pondering what you wrote. There is no doubt that it will have some impact. Not sure what it is. I'll let you know.