Best fine dining towns in New Jersey

[dRock]

Im trying to figure out wich NJ towns support fine dining restaurants the most. Is it Chatham, Montclair, Alpine.........

[menton1]

Alpine has no restaurants, or any business save a gas station. You also need to define "fine" as it refers to restaurants, there is a lot of debate here as to what that may mean, and it is different to different people.

Quality aside, for sheer quantity, Montclair and Ridgewood take the cake in North Jersey. Red Bank has many restos. Lambertville, lots of restos.

Also, keep in mind, that Jersey towns are smaller than those in other states, for the most part. so it's hard to find towns large enough to support a lot of restaurants. But I thinkyou need to redefine exactly what you are looking for, and also what part of the State you are looking in.

[dRock]

What I mean by fine dining is for example, a restaurant with a tasting menu. An average check of 70 plus dollars. White linens. From my dining experience it seems like most places like this have a very hard time filling seats. Especially during the week. Is it just because most Jersey people rather go to NY for fine dining? Ive been to The Ryland, Venue, Nicholas, and Serenade, all of these places seem to be extremely slow during the week. On the other hand, Saddle River Inn is consistantly busy everyday. It must have something to with with location or the type of cuisine.

[lmkennedy53]

What I mean by fine dining is for example, a restaurant with a tasting menu.  An average check of 70 plus dollars.  White linens.  From my dining experience it seems like most places like this have a very hard time filling seats.  Especially during the week.  Is it just because most Jersey people rather go to NY for fine dining?  Ive been to The Ryland, Venue, Nicholas, and Serenade, all of these places seem to be extremely slow during the week.  On the other hand, Saddle River Inn is consistantly busy everyday.  It must have something  to with with location or the type of cuisine.

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I hope you will try Restaurant David Drake for fine dining. Rahway may not be a fine dining town but our restaurant is busy most nights of the week and people come from all over the state. I think we fit your description of fine dining with white linens, fine china, glassware and silverware, 3 tasting menus and FABULOUS food!! The average check is over $70 too!!!

I hope this didn't sound too much like an advertisement!!!

[jwjojo]

What I mean by fine dining is for example, a restaurant with a tasting menu.  An average check of 70 plus dollars.  White linens.  From my dining experience it seems like most places like this have a very hard time filling seats.  Especially during the week.  Is it just because most Jersey people rather go to NY for fine dining?  Ive been to The Ryland, Venue, Nicholas, and Serenade, all of these places seem to be extremely slow during the week.  On the other hand, Saddle River Inn is consistantly busy everyday.  It must have something  to with with location or the type of cuisine.

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It is location and economics. Montclair, Ridgewood, Hoboken, Saddle River...what do they all have in common....expensive homes, high incomes. The average person is not able to spend that kind of money on dinner, as we all know. It is a special occasion type meal. I know I sure can't

[menton1]

What I mean by fine dining is for example, a restaurant with a tasting menu.  An average check of 70 plus dollars.  White linens.  From my dining experience it seems like most places like this have a very hard time filling seats.  Especially during the week.  Is it just because most Jersey people rather go to NY for fine dining?  Ive been to The Ryland, Venue, Nicholas, and Serenade, all of these places seem to be extremely slow during the week.  On the other hand, Saddle River Inn is consistantly busy everyday.  It must have something  to with with location or the type of cuisine.

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OK, so you are looking for individual restaurants that fit this bill, not towns where they are ubiquitous.

I'm not a fan of SR Inn. I think it doesn't live up to its hype. Lots of mediocre restaurants are full everyday. We have discussed this phenomenon here often.

The 4 you mentioned are among the best in the State. I would also vote for Pluckemin Inn, Bernards Inn, and Rat's. Also, Xaviar's, but that's technically 2 miles over the NY border.

Can't judge by busy, though. The busiest restos I ever see are Charlie Brown's and California Pizza.

Edited March 2, 2006 by menton1 (log)

[dRock]

I understand, but is poor weekday business and good weekend business the nature of fine dining? If some of these restaurants were in different locations would their situation be any better. For example. Venue is my favorite and the most daring restaurant in the state. Is the fact that they are in Hoboken hurting them? Would they be better off in Saddle River or Montclair. I just wonder if there are any towns in NJ that would support restaurants of this "Manhattan calibur"

[bgut1]

Montclair, New Brunswick, Red Bank .....

[menton1]

I understand, but is poor weekday business and good weekend business the nature of fine dining?  If some of these restaurants were in different locations would their situation be any better.  For example.  Venue is my favorite and the most daring restaurant in the state.  Is the fact that they are in Hoboken hurting them?  Would they be better off in Saddle River or Montclair. I just wonder if there are any towns in NJ that would support restaurants of this "Manhattan calibur"

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It's just the nature of the business. Don't have exact numbers, but there must be at least 10 times more people eating at restaurants on weekends as on weekdays. I'm sure many restos in NYC are quieter on weekdays as well, not including the "movie star" places that draw crowds 7 nights a week. But I suppose we need one of the restaurateurs here to chime in on this issue.

[lmkennedy53]

I understand, but is poor weekday business and good weekend business the nature of fine dining?  If some of these restaurants were in different locations would their situation be any better.  For example.  Venue is my favorite and the most daring restaurant in the state.  Is the fact that they are in Hoboken hurting them?  Would they be better off in Saddle River or Montclair. I just wonder if there are any towns in NJ that would support restaurants of this "Manhattan calibur"

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It's just the nature of the business. Don't have exact numbers, but there must be at least 10 times more people eating at restaurants on weekends as on weekdays. I'm sure many restos in NYC are quieter on weekdays as well, not including the "movie star" places that draw crowds 7 nights a week. But I suppose we need one of the restaurateurs here to chime in on this issue.

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I thought I did!

[Lreda]

[ But I suppose we need one of the restaurateurs here to chime in on this issue.

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[dRock]

Im surprised such welthy towns like Alpine and Franklin Lakes dont have much to offer in fine dining.

[tommy]

it's probably important to realize that the denizens of a town don't necessarily make up the biggest or even a large percentage of a restaurant's business (hoboken is a clear exception). to wonder why wealthy towns don't have fine-dining restaurants seems to miss the point, and ignore the demographics of the actual customers. firstly, wealthy people aren't going out for fine dining in their towns: they're probably going out to eat in NYC. when they get home they're with their kids and family, and eat accordingly. secondly, if the town isn't known as a "restaurant destination", it will probably not see a lot of restaurant traffic. let's face it, people say "hey, lets go to montclair to get dinner", and only then do they think of which of the 60 restaurants to visit. thirdly, wealthy people, or those with high household incomes and big houses, if that's the barometer by which we're measuring "wealth" as related to towns like Franklin Lakes or Upper Saddle River, don't necessarily care about fine dining. i know plenty of wealthy people who couldn't give a toss about tasting menus and seasonal mushrooms. and i know a bunch of broke-ass musicians who love a good night at Venue. i just can't draw a correlation to wealth, income, and restaurant location.

as far as "restaurant towns" like ridgewood, montclair, and to some extent hoboken, i would say it's more accurate to say that these destination/restaurant towns support mid-level mediocre restaurants. not fine dining restaurants. if you want to be successful serving mediocre food, i'd say one of those three towns is your best bet.

Edited March 3, 2006 by tommy (log)

[Anonymouze]

I have to really agree with Tommy alot on his last posting. I live in what is considered a wealthy area the homes are 1M+ here and most of the towns within 5 miles or less of my town don't have many great restaurants to eat at IMHO. Woodcliff Lake, Saddle River, Upper Saddle River, Alpine, Closter, Rockleigh.

There is the famous Saddle River Inn which every magazine and place touts as being great, I personally like The Park Steakhouse and more recently Fortunato but other than that you don't hear much about any restaurants in these half a dozen towns. Menton mentioned/discussed/debated/argued? that Harvest was one the other day -- but until then I have not heard of it, also someone mentioned Citrus Grille (but that's in Monsey NY over the border I believe?) and I do seek out new places constantly. My preference being something with a tasting menu and in Bergen County, so that when we go out once or twice a month to eat it's somewhere new and good and different. I usually end up at places like Bhoj for the variety/buffet so I can get a half a spoon of this and that but I know not of many places up this way that have a nice tasting menu that is not your american fare and are a 4+ star restaurant. Are there any 4+ Star restaurants in Bergen county WITH a tasting menu that meet the criteria? I'm not sure but good luck finding Fine Dining in Bergen County, SERIOUSLY.

[newguy]

Just as a reference point, what are we calling "extremely slow?"

What I mean by fine dining is for example, a restaurant with a tasting menu. An average check of 70 plus dollars. White linens. From my dining experience it seems like most places like this have a very hard time filling seats. Especially during the week. Is it just because most Jersey people rather go to NY for fine dining? Ive been to The Ryland, Venue, Nicholas, and Serenade, all of these places seem to be extremely slow during the week. On the other hand, Saddle River Inn is consistantly busy everyday. It must have something to with with location or the type of cuisine.

[Curlz]

...and i know a bunch of broke-ass musicians who love a good night at Venue.  i just can't draw a correlation to wealth, income, and restaurant location.

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Thank you VERY much for saying that, Tommy. Seriously.

Signed,

A semi-broke-ass non-musician

[tommy]

Ive been to The Ryland, Venue, Nicholas, and Serenade, all of these places seem to be extremely slow during the week.  On the other hand, Saddle River Inn is consistantly busy everyday.  It must have something  to with with location or the type of cuisine.

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the saddle river inn is a non-entity. who goes there? i'm guessing the same (older) customers, time after time. it's unique, i suppose, in that it contiues to exist. however, it could be in hackensack or fairlawn or anywhere other than saddle river (which i assume we're thinking is a "wealthy" town) and it would still do the same business. and i can't imagine it's doing well because the cuisine is interesting in the big scheme of things.

it's an old-school old-money bergen country landmark restaurant. it's best to take it out of any analysis, as that particular data-point will just through off the results, just as you'd take the Olive Garden (or any other high-traffic restaurant) out if it.

[menton1]

Quality aside, for sheer quantity, Montclair and Ridgewood take the cake in North Jersey. Red Bank has many restos. Lambertville, lots of restos.

Also, keep in mind, that Jersey towns are smaller than those in other states, for the most part. so it's hard to find towns large enough to support a lot of restaurants. But I thinkyou need to redefine exactly what you are looking for, and also what part of the State you are looking in.

as far as "restaurant towns" like ridgewood, montclair, and to some extent hoboken, i would say it's more accurate to say that these destination/restaurant towns support mid-level mediocre restaurants. not fine dining restaurants. if you want to be successful serving mediocre food, i'd say one of those three towns is your best bet.

I'm starting to lose what the topic of this thread is. "Towns" with a lot of restaurants, or restaurants with tablecloths. or why towns with high per-capita income have or don't have restaurants (Has a lot to do with zoning laws, not income) (??)

[tommy]

I'm starting to lose what the topic of this thread is. 

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i agree. i got lost the after reading your first post hours ago.

[PicnicChef]

I agree, this thread is getting confusing. What about "destination" restaurants. I've never seen a mention of Petit Chateau in Bernardsville, incredible french food, that.

[KatieLoeb]

Does NJ stop somewhere north of New Brunswick??

There's plenty of good to great restaurants in Collingswood, Cape May and Princeton environs.

[tommy]

everyone should feel free to add their experiences.

[dRock]

How about this. If you were planning on opening a "fine dining" type establishment, what town do you think would give you the best chance of success. I know their are different types of fine dining eg modern vs classic but I have to say a towns demografic must have alot to do with the success rate.

Edited March 3, 2006 by dRock (log)

[menton1]

Does NJ stop somewhere north of New Brunswick??

There's plenty of good to great restaurants in Collingswood, Cape May and Princeton environs.

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Please take note, I mentioned Red Bank, and Lambertville above.

Cape May, though, that's REALLY the end of the world...

[tommy]

How about this.  If you were planning on opening a "fine dining" type establishment, what town do you think would give you the best chance of success.

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rahway, of course. but only if i was as good as david drake. which i'm not. which 99.999% of restaurateurs and chefs aren't. which is why they fail, regardless of the town they set up shop in. the demographics of a given 8 square miles matters not. are you not yet convinced? i'm really baffled by the reasoning here.

Cape May, though, that's REALLY the end of the world...

yeah but's that's delaware, so it doesn't apply here.

Edited March 3, 2006 by tommy (log)