SD german rye bread

[timtune]

Hi,

I've recently got medium ground rye flour and whole rye grains. Is it possible to make a 100% sourdough rye bread, like those dense and hearty german style ones without the use of white rye flour??

Can someone help me with the formula??

THX

[Woods]

Hi,

I've recently got medium ground rye flour and whole rye grains. Is it possible to make a 100% sourdough rye bread, like those dense and hearty german style ones without the use of white rye flour??

Can someone help me with the formula?? 

THX 

←

You may have to use some whole wheat or white flour if you want it to rise at all. Otherwise it will be like Danish rye-very dense and compact. If you look on sourdough.FAQ or wait until I get home from work today you can have a recipe.

Good luck! Woods

[timtune]

yep, hehe...tht's what wanted

The dense, hearty and heavy 100% rye breads of germany. Or the dark 90-80% rye breads.

thx

[McDuff]

I have some German style rye sitting on the floor under a chair in front of the heating duct for it's 18-24 hour repose in a warm place before baking it at 225F for four hours. the recipe is from a book called The Cook's Guide to Bread aby Christine Ingram and Jennie Shapter. Very interesting book. It will be interesting to see if this bread looks like the picture. It's nothing but rye flour, whole wheat flour, bulgur, salt, oil and molasses.

I know we're not talking about it here, but I made the stollen from Artisan Baking the other day and it was excellent.

[artisanbaker]

See Bread by Jeffrey Hamelman for rye recipes/formulas. Top notch book.

[McDuff]

The stuff I made yesterday was swill, right into the gahr-bage. My wife said it was the kind of thing you'd want to have with you if you got lost in the woods. I'll look for Hamelman at the library tomorrow.

[Beanie]

The stuff I made yesterday was swill, right into the gahr-bage. My wife said it was the kind of thing you'd want to have with you if you got lost in the woods. I'll look for Hamelman at the library tomorrow.

←

If it's not available at the library, do your research at Borders. I spent an hour there the other night reading Hamelman's book. It's the next book on my "to buy" list.

[timtune]

I haven't seen the recipe in Hamelmen's book,

but does anyone have the formula for 100% wholegrain rye bread, or "Roggenvollkornbrot' if i get the name right in german. I have a difficulty getting the ratios of wholegrains to rye meal flour.

Or a recipe for 'Schwarzbrot' would be good too

[Just loafing]

MacDuff wrote about his rye bread having an 18-24 hour repose in a warm place before baking it at 225F for four hours.

I make 100 per cent sourdough rye ... but I don't do the long bake at a low temperature. Tried that ... ended up with doughy, ugly bread at the waste of a lot of propane. Now I bake it at the same temperature as the rest of my eight varieties of sourdough ... somewhere between 350 and 400F, depending on how my ovens are handling on a given day. A loaf of 100% rye scaled at 2 lbs 2 oz comes out resembling a brick, but the texture is good and those of my customers who love it, keep coming back for more. (I think it wants cream cheese and lox.) My formula is pretty simple ... about equal weights of rye sourdough starter and water, with enough rye flour to give a consistency I've learned will work. It's thick, almost solid, doesn't clean the sides of the bowl and has to be spooned out of the mixing bowl ... doesn't look as if it would ever rise, but it does.

As it bakes, it tends to shrink ... as opposed to spring. It's not my favorite dough to handle, but it has a following ... susan

[timtune]

MacDuff wrote about his rye bread having an 18-24 hour repose in a warm place before baking it at 225F for four hours.

I make 100 per cent sourdough rye ... but I don't do the long bake at a low temperature. Tried that ... ended up with doughy, ugly bread at the waste of a lot of propane. Now I bake it at the same temperature as the rest of my eight varieties of sourdough ... somewhere between 350 and 400F, depending on how my ovens are handling on a given day. A loaf of 100% rye scaled at 2 lbs 2 oz comes out resembling a brick, but the texture is good and those of my customers who love it, keep coming back for more. (I think it wants cream cheese and lox.) My formula is pretty simple ... about equal weights of rye sourdough starter and water, with enough rye flour to give a consistency I've learned will work. It's thick, almost solid, doesn't clean the sides of the bowl and  has to be spooned out of the mixing bowl ... doesn't look as if it would ever rise, but it does.

As it bakes, it tends to shrink ... as opposed to spring. It's not my favorite dough to handle, but it has a following ... susan

←

Susan,

I only have medium ground rye flour and whole rye grains on hand. Will that suffice, if i convert the grains to chopped grains and just use the medium ground one, with the absence of white rye flour?

Oh, btw, how is the consisitency like? solid or ciabatta dough like?

thx

Edited February 28, 2006 by timtune (log)

[Just loafing]

Timtune asked: I only have medium ground rye flour and whole rye grains on hand. Will that suffice, if i convert the grains to chopped grains and just use the medium ground one, with the absence of white rye flour?

Oh, btw, how is the consisitency like? solid or ciabatta dough like?

I'm using organic dark rye flour with a cup or two of cracked rye added. I was using half and half dark rye with an organic rye from a local farmer who milled her own, but she is out of grain now.

Your medium rye should make a somewhat lighter bread.

As for the consistency ... it's solid and dense ... very far from ciabatta.

Susan

[thegreatdane]

When I had more time, I used to make a good all-rye bread, dense and delicious, thin sliced. I made a rye sourdough starter from rye flour and combined that with whole-grain rye that had been covered in hot water and left soaking overnight. I then added cracked rye and perhaps some rye flour to bind it, and some salt. The consistency was like wall spackling. I had to all but use a trowel to put it into the pans. It's been a while since I've made some but I sure miss it. Good with butter, or any cheese, pate, fish, ham (with mustard green), and, surprisingly, chocolate. (not all together) I'd be very interested in a professional recipe as I was just winging it.

[timtune]

Oh yes, likw what thegreatdane said, very good with butter, cheese or pate like spreads!

heard the dough mixture is like a thick paste like, where you can't knead it, more of just mix it together and spread it in the loaf pan later. Is that rite?

Edited March 1, 2006 by timtune (log)

[thegreatdane]

Oh yes, likw what thegreatdane said, very good with butter, cheese or pate like spreads! 

heard the dough mixture is like a thick paste like, where you can't knead it, more of just mix it together and spread it in the loaf pan later. Is that rite?

←

That was my experience; the 'dough' was very sticky and thick.

Interesting, my Grandfather was a Danish baker and made rye bread all the time. None of us were trained by him. My father tried to duplicate his recipe and thought it needed to rise and have gluten, like regular bread, so he added white flour. Being the stubborn one, I tried the whole rye and sourdough route with success.

Now, to get a professional in on this discussion would clarify things. I love that bread. It's truly the staff of life. Or maybe the brick.

[timtune]

thx so much for the help,

Just one more thing,

I some websites talking about lower temperatures like 160C and baking it for 2 - 3 hrs.

So, what temperature and how long do you usually use, for a large bread pan loaf? Any steam generated?

[thegreatdane]

If I recall correctly, I baked at about 350°F for almost an hour. Lots of steam from the wet dough. I used Pullman pans, with lids. Once, I put in too much dough and after it had baked it wouldn't allow me to open the pan. Too tight! I don't think the lids are necessary. Once you get the hang of things, and know how much dough to put in, you can use a lid to get a square loaf.

[timtune]

Cool!!

Thx so much for the information!

I think i'm gonna tryit this weekend already!!

[thegreatdane]

Let us know how it goes.

Good luck!

Tom

[timtune]

The bread i baked.

Edited March 5, 2006 by timtune (log)

[timtune]

Hi Tom,

I'ved just baked a large loaf of 100% SD rye bread. I used about 30% chopped rye grains and wholemeal medium rye flour. Baked at approx 160-170C for 2+ hrs, with steam.

I baked it with a alluminium foil covering the top. However, the top didn't dome... hmm...it was sunken. ... How do i prevent that? Bake it at a higher temp with no covering?

I can't wait to see the crumb and taste it tomorrow morning though.

Edited March 5, 2006 by timtune (log)

[timtune]

I cut the loaf in the morning, and i think it has not cooled completely yet. The center was still very moist, after 8+ hrs. Crumbly and there was like a seperation between the outer part and the inner part....

Think i should have waited for one day or more b4 cutting it next time. Gonna try tomorrow again.

[Just loafing]

Your loaf looks similar to mine, except that with 100% dark rye, mine are a much darker, browny-grey. (Sounds appetizing doesn't it?) If I've done the conversion correctly, you baked your loaf at about 350F which is similar to mine, but I would never cover it, unless for some reason it seemed to be overbrowning and then I'd just cover it loosely. That could well be the problem with the texture ... the dough needs to be able to release some of its moisture as it bakes. My loaves always shrink as they bake, but they are never (touch wood) sunken in the centre. So I would leave the next try uncovered and I would lose the steam as well ... the dough doesn't need more moisture. My loaves are always dense and moist, so much so that we no longer even try to slice them on our commercial bread slicer. The slices actually "pill" and the blades get really gummed up. However it slices nicely with a chef's knife ... bring on the lox and cream cheese! Susan

[timtune]

I've tried making it again.... this time it was better. I decreased the hydration and baked it without a covering.

Funny thing how rye breads can hold their moisture for a long time.

[Just loafing]

Congrats! That loaf looks really nice. Mine never have that dome ... your loaf is not exactly light and fluffy, but for 100% rye, it's as near as it gets. How did it taste and did you like the texture? susan who is going to bed to get up at 5:45 a.m. to make about 100 loaves of sourdough including 6 or so 100% rye!

[timtune]

Hey susan,

The taste was great! Aromatic with a sour tang to it.

I think i would tweak up the hydration next time to get a more open crumb. But the dense and moist texture was nice too

5.45am? hehe ... I guess people who makes sourdough breads all share a common thing. I did that a couple of times too...baking in the wee hours of the morn.