The Chinese Philosophy of Food

[Tepee]

I thought I might as well start the Yin/Yang ball rolling. Carrot Top posed this question on The Lychee Thread

A question: Do you think that it is possible to "sense" the difference between yang and yin foods by the sensory input (i.e. taste biggrin.gif ) of the food and the way it makes you feel?

^ Well...to answer this question, we have to look into:

1. The constitution of a person...whether he is more Yin or Yang

2. The effects/properties/flavor of the food

3. Yin and Yang Illnesses

4. How the Yin and the Yang is affected by the seasons

People, feel free to expound on the above. I'll chip in later...er...I'm a bit busy at the moment. This is going to be interesting because Yin-Yang describes a relative state....a thing is never just Yin or Yang.

[Ben Hong]

OOOoooooMMMmmmmmmmm.

[jo-mel]

--- or is it your own yin yang need that makes you seek out those yin/yang foods.

(or is that what you are saying?)

Do we normally seek out yin/yang foods to maintain our normal balance, and is it when we are imbalanced that we have a natural need to rebalance? Like eating too much salt and then drinking water to offset it. (drinking is yang and eating is yin -- isn't it?)

Ben ---- You are toooooooo funny!!

Edited February 23, 2006 by jo-mel (log)

[Tepee]

OOOoooooMMMmmmmmmmm.

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Oh, Ben-Sook! Don't laugh at me! I was trying to sound as serious and un-quack as possible. Seriously.

There are indeed some amongst us - my sister's MIL and my MIL for instance...notice the keyword MIL - who are obsessed with how the food is going to affect their system. Tell them what you're going to cook that evening, and, if you're not careful with your menu, you'll be bombarded with, "This will make you...blah blah blah..."

sigh....I've to shoot off again. To be continued.

[maggiethecat]

OOOoooooMMMmmmmmmmm.

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There are indeed some amongst us - my sister's MIL and my MIL for instance...notice the keyword MIL - who are obsessed with how the food is going to affect their system. Tell them what you're going to cook that evening, and, if you're not careful with your menu, you'll be bombarded with, "This will make you...blah blah blah..."

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Tepee: I'm a "westerner" and I am really fascinated by this passage. Could you give examples of what these inestimable MILs feel are good or bad for their systems?

[Pan]

How does yin and yang relate to the humors, if at all?

[OnigiriFB]

I would love to find out more about this. Every year I go out to eat dim sum at the Empress Pavilion and my friend makes me drink tea because dim sum is "hot" and tea is "cooling". THen we got into if you eat to much meat you must balance it with vegetables. So one day I went to a churrascuria (sp?) and the next he took me a wonderful chinese vegetarian place that I would go back to in a heartbeat! I also remember in in Thailand my cousin's wife was Chinese and after she gave birth her Mom told her to drink ginger? Said it was good for the system. Would you know why?

[Ben Hong]

Tepee, sweet Moi Moi, I was leaving my "humor(s)" out of it, that is not laughing. Just setting the stage for what I believe will be a great discussion.

The whole idea of the yin-yang dichotomy is based on the concept of balance as the ancient Taoists saw it... dark/light/, male/female, hot/cold, etc. In that concept, neither part of each equation should be predominant over the other, otherwise you create imbalance with leads to all kinds of troubles with the harmonious flow of chi, or life forces which drives nature, including our bodies .The concept of yin/yang also gives the founding theory to feng shui.

Ever since the days of Lao Tzu, 2600 years ago, the Chinese have tried to live life in balance, or in harmony with nature and within themselves. Some old PoPos still won't let their grandkids or any other young children sleep on the ground, advocate against exposure to the evening mist, and most importantly advise against eating too much of one type of food (a good thing) because of their interpretation of the yin/yang "rules" and their ideas of balance. For certain, the average Chinese family dinner is subconciously, but rigidly guided by the old Taoist principles, in food selection and the variety of cooking methods.

This is about all I can stay awake for, so tomorrow we'll discuss food, the real head of the Chinese family and other quasi religious beliefs that guide 1/4 of the world's population.

[Tepee]

... I also remember in in Thailand my cousin's wife was Chinese and after she gave birth her Mom told her to drink ginger? Said it was good for the system. Would you know why?

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I'll tackle this (easier) question first, having gone through 3 (and a miss) childbirths and the default confinement diet....though, this can be a whole 'nother topic. No...no...I'm not going to be swallowed into that. Just quickly, the purpose of eating certain food after childbirth is:

1. To cleanse the womb of 'dirty blood';

2. During cleansing, not to be opened to 'wind'...which will result in lots of aches in old age;

3. To strengthen the weakened system (loss of blood).

Consuming copious amount of ginger (for eg. in the date/ginger drink, ginger tonic chicken) helps in purpose #2, as ginger is very warming for the stomach as well as the spleen. Moreover, it helps to open up the pores to ease toxin release. Heat vs Cold/Wind....Heat wins with ginger. The measure of how full of 'wind' you are is that a postpartum mother is able to take the heat of ginger without feeling the usual after-effects of consuming it. Some fathers who can't resist pinching partaking in the wife's confinement food suffer the consequences of losing their voices from the ginger's heat and having a face exploded in pimples.

Edited February 23, 2006 by Tepee (log)

[Tepee]

Well-spoken on the yin-yang concept, Ben-sook...indeed, like a chinese sage. But, before I go any further, I would like to indemnify myself...my 'quacky' knowledge of this fine balance of food effects is based on old wives' precipitation, no scientific/mollecular-whatnot-basis at all. And, as such, Michael, I'm sorry to say I am unable to be of much help on the humors connection (Ben-sook helped). Also, I'll just be contributing on and off - please help, people! - as my SAHM day-schedule is suffocating.

I'll just lump Item #1 above with #3.

Generally, a person who has a lot of energy, feels hot easily,and, is extroverted, is said to be more Yang. They are susceptible to Heat conditions, ie. fever, swellings, thirst. They need to take food which are cooling, calming to tone down their Yang.

A Yin person takes life at a slower pace. A person with too much Yin suffers from chronic problems which develops and drags over a period of time. They need warming food to rid the Dampness. Let's welcome our very own eG fine example (of a man)...Ben-sook. Here, in the same Lychee thread, he tells of his resistance to the heaty effects of the lychee. That's because the Yin in him is clearly dominant.

Because of the relative state of transition of YY forces, you may not know for sure if you're more a Yin or a Yang person; you may find at times you're more a Yin and at others more Yang. This will only be more apparent as you age, which helps, because you will then know how to maintain the YY balance by consuming the right herbs/foods for you.

Gosh...hope I haven't lost y'all in the YY circle so far. I'll save the food discussion for later. I'm sure Ben, recharged from a good Yin sleep, will stimulate our appetites.

Edited February 23, 2006 by Tepee (log)

[mizducky]

Well-spoken on the yin-yang concept, Ben-sook...indeed, like a chinese sage. But, before I go any further, I would like to indemnify myself...my 'quacky' knowledge of this fine balance of food effects is based on old wives' precipitation, no scientific/mollecular-whatnot-basis at all.

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Hey, "quacky" knowledge is my favorite kind!

Seriously ... I am pretty fascinated by this stuff. Like I said in the other topic, my only major exposure to the whole yin/yang food philosophy is filtered through macrobiotics, which I experimented with briefly a couple of different times in my life. But I'm not at all certain how much the macrobiotic version of yin/yang philosophy may have been changed from the Chinese version. (Besides the obvious difference that macrobiotic practice focuses on Japanese ingredients and cooking techniques.)

But even beyond that, this exposure was all either just book-learning, or study with, frankly, a bunch of mainly Caucasians who did not grow up eating that way. What I miss, and really want to hear, is exactly the kind of knowledge you have, Tepee, garnered from the proverbial old wives (after all, a lot of those old wives really knew their stuff. ). I do want to hear how this tradition is applied in everyday life in its original culture, including what your senior relatives noodge you about in terms of "now, eat your [insert food item here], it's good for you" trips. Because I really relate to that, and besides, I think it's cool.

[hzrt8w]

Keeping this Yin and Yang on how it relates to food:

When we feel that we are "over heated" (Yang) - meaning we have a sore throat from eating too much fried food or too much dog meat in hot clay pots , we need to cool it down by introducing some Yin - e.g. drink some herbal tea.

When my MIL cooks Chinese vegetables - especially Chinese (Napa) cabbage - she always put a few slices of ginger. It's because eating Chinese cabbage is too "Yin" for her. After eating it she will feel cold. To balance it, she cooks the vegetable with some ginger, which is "Yang", to balance it... gives her some heat to counter the cooling effect.

Edited February 23, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[miladyinsanity]

And then there's the fact that food prepared in different ways will affect you differently.

There are a couple other factors, including the timespan between the preparation and you eating it--or so my beloved, late grandma always said. She would throw away rice porridge at night because it would have a lot of Wind, and likewise, sugarcane juice had to be drunk right away as well.

My youngest brother doesn't get anywhere near cabbage--which is no big deal since he doesn't eat green stuff anyway--because he is asthmatic, and therefore has a lot of Wind. Preserved vegetables--at least the kind you use to make soup with--are another killer too. Okay, not killer, but you get what I mean.

[Tepee]

Oh...good, good, the ball's rolling.

Like Ah Leung Gaw mentioned..about adding ginger to cabbage...cooling food can indeed be neutralised. Such is the transient properties of food. Another example of zapping out the undesirable cooling properties (symptoms being coughs and dampness) is barley drink and old cucumber soup. Both are considered cooling if boiled for under one hour. However, they will produce neutral, even soothing effects, if you continue to boil it (over a slow fire) for up to 3 hours.

The wind in most vegetables is tolerable for most people, except, for cabbage and oong choy/water convulvulus (sp?)/water spinach. Women approaching their menses and those who are within the confinement month, should approach the aforementioned veg with caution, lest they suffer abnormally severe cramps/bleeding. Even women who are not in that state, and who are going about their everyday merry way, can experience unwelcomed dampness...(er...discharge).

[Tepee]

For certain, the average Chinese family dinner is subconciously, but rigidly guided by the old Taoist principles, in food selection and the variety of cooking methods.

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Amen!

Well, mizducky-who-appreciates-quackiness-in-all-forms, I shouldn't put the blame on the older generations, for naggingly controlling the what's and why's we eat, because I, myself, have unwittingly taken over the task of feeding my family with such 'balanced' meals, explaining to my children the effects of some foods over and over again. I bet they roll their eyes when I do that, but I (and, they, in future) can't help it, we're chinese!

Edited February 23, 2006 by Tepee (log)

[aznsailorboi]

HAHA I'm like a day late on this idea. lol but at least I'm at the same page as everyone.

so back to the subject....

can somebody explain the different conditions that the body can be in? ie. hot, cold, damp etc.

[Ben Hong]

For certain, the average Chinese family dinner is subconciously, but rigidly guided by the old Taoist principles, in food selection and the variety of cooking methods.

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Amen!

Well, mizducky-who-appreciates-quackiness-in-all-forms, I shouldn't put the blame on the older generations, for naggingly controlling the what's and why's we eat, because I, myself, have unwittingly taken over the task of feeding my family with such 'balanced' meals, explaining to my children the effects of some foods over and over again. I bet they roll their eyes when I do that, but I (and, they, in future) can't help it, we're chinese!

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But Tepee, that is what I was driving at. I will state here in plain view and in complete control of my senses that THE CHINESE WOMAN IS THE MAIN REPOSITORY OF CHINESE CULTURE. As such, all the folklore, the keeping of rituals, the observation of festivals, the regulation of the family wellbeing, the direction of the family path, family continuity, etc., etc is laid squarely on her strong shoulders. Therefore, Tepee, you are just carrying on what is "only" your duty. Sometimes these "duties" are so ingrained that they are second nature, almost genetic. What you are saying and doing now with your daughters, they will in turn, do and say with their families, unless of course they become so "bananafied" that they chose to ignore these things.

Where does the Chinese man fit in a TRADITIONAL household? Well, if he were wise he would keep his mouth shut and do as he's told and eat what is put on the table. Chinese men are basically Mama's boys...who are cared for and catered to by their mothers, until such time as they marry and their wives take over. (Hhmm, leads to another topic which may or may not reappear).

To be continued....

[aznsailorboi]

hmmm soo true what Ah Koo BenSook said (im kinda uncomfortable calling my elders by their name....well specially knowing that most of you uncles and aunties are around my parents age, i'll just start calling you guys Ah Koo=uncle and Ah Yi=auntie), you see the females in the family the most active during gatherings, and other family events. but you never see the men....they're in the back yard or porch playing mah jong or poker drinking, and dont appear until food is ready...and this is what mostly happens for all occasions in my family.

[Kent Wang]

Are there Chinese therapeutic beliefs that are not connected with yin-yang or the elements? My mother always told me to eat lots of garlic if I have a cold but never justified that in terms of yin/yang.

[mizducky]

I will state here in plain view and in complete control of my senses that THE CHINESE WOMAN  IS THE MAIN REPOSITORY OF CHINESE CULTURE. As such, all the folklore, the keeping of rituals, the observation of festivals, the regulation of the family wellbeing, the direction of the family path, family continuity, etc., etc is laid squarely on her strong shoulders. Therefore, Tepee, you are just carrying on what is "only" your duty. Sometimes these "duties" are so ingrained that they are second nature, almost genetic. What you are saying and doing now with your daughters, they will in turn, do and say with their families, unless of course they become so "bananafied" that they chose to ignore these things.

Where does the Chinese man fit in a TRADITIONAL household?  Well, if he were wise he would keep his mouth shut and do as he's told and eat what is put on the table. Chinese men are basically Mama's boys...who are cared for and catered to by their mothers, until such time as they marry and their wives take over.  (Hhmm, leads to another topic which may or may not reappear). 

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Heh. Now see, I think this is part of why all these aspects of Chinese culture so resonate with me--you could have just as easily been describing the gender roles in the older generations of my Jewish family there, Ben. Right down to the possible breaks in passing on traditions due to assimilation issues.

This is not the first time I've noticed intriguing parallels between Jewish and Chinese culture ... although I will admit that Jewish matriarchal admonitions about food, while no less passionate, are a good bit simpler (the proverbial chicken soup therapy, etc.). Plus somehow in Jewish-American culture mah-jongg has pretty much exclusively become a women's game... but I digress.

Dragging this comment back on topic ... on a practical level, I do want to hear more about yang-ifying a diet that's running pretty heavily to yin foods, as I find myself eating a lot more fruits and vegetables than formerly. Interestingly, my personal food preferences seem to be trying to correct this almost unconsciously, in terms of sometimes preferring cooked vegetables to raw ones, and dried fruit to fresh. (My understanding is that cooking and dehydrating are yang-ifying processes.) Any further grandmother/auntie-type advice on this? (Already making a note to replenish my stock of ginger root...)

[aznsailorboi]

Are there Chinese therapeutic beliefs that are not connected with yin-yang or the elements? My mother always told me to eat lots of garlic if I have a cold but never justified that in terms of yin/yang.

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garlic i believe is a yang food, its very warming, not sure if it belongs to warm, or hot though.

[petite tête de chou]

Very odd. Not as a result of this thread, but I recently decided to return to my yin/yang sense of balancing my diet- both food-wise and spiritual-wise. I believe that there is nothing "quack" about this rather enlightened sense of health/spiritual maintainence through food.

I'm fortunate that I prefer vegetables (haven't yet met one that I didn't appreciate), whole grains, a few meats (I prefer crab, salmon, mussels, scallops, shrimp etc.), no fast food or deep fried stuff. A real kill-joy, I am.

Although I am a nearly a complete novice in present company I wanted someone to know that this Westerner, at least, embraces the "Chinese Philosophy of Food," as far as I'm aware of it. Simplicity is, really, where I'm at in most things.

An example of my attempts- I made a large batch of tabouli- soaked bulgar, parsley, tomato, green onion, mint, lemon juice and a smidge of olive oil. I'll be eating this through out the week with a variety of side dishes. Such as steamed sweet potatoes with sesame seed oil, cauliflower, tofu (I prefer it uncooked but I almost get the shakes after eating it because I get so cold, even after adding minced ginger, green onions and a spicy oil), a broccoli, carrots etc.

I tend to wake up with a cup of coffee with milk and white sugar which, while I mentally find it soothing, does little for me physically. I greet the day with an acidic and curdled milk tummy. Out of sorts. During the evening I tend to drink green tea, mint teas, a variety of herbal teas (tisanes?). And while I know that drinking lots of water through out the day is good (I drink about a half gallon) it makes me cold- even if its warm or room temperature.

Yikes. I think, in my round-about way, I'm asking for suggestions or opinons on how to balance my diet within the Chinese philosophies concerning food. Thus far, my pantry has lentils, bulgar, adzuki and pinto beans (must get to the store for more beans), green split peas, whole wheat pastas, a variety of rice and barley. I have a few different type of vinegar which I think are needed for making pickles (important, how exactly? something with the bodies ph?), a scant few Chinese sauce-type things (oyster, black bean/garlic, hoisin, etc).

Oddly enough, after three days of this diet I feel more calm, my skin condition (slight eczema) is, actually, gone and the um..the bathroom facilities are more pleasant.

These are a couple websites that I've perused, any thoughts? Website one Website two

[Ben Hong]

MizDucky,

you shouldn't be surprised at how concentric and parallel our repective civilizations are. Two societies as old as ours are, are bound to discover and evolve along similar paths. In the hippie-dippy sixties, it was my good fortune to share an apartment with a Jewish medical intern whom I had known for a long time before we became roomies. There's a saying that you really don't know a person untoil you live with him, well we got to know each other very well, because he and I challenged each other by discussing our respective cultures daily and became better people for it. (We lost our other two roomies on the way, philosophically )

Sailorboi:

Your respect for us "elders" is much appreciated. But Ben-sook as Tepee and others call me is already "Uncle Ben". Koo or kiew is redundant in this case.

Petite tete de chou:

(love the handle). Be careful not to go overboard with the whole Yin/Yang thing. It is far, far away from panacea. That whole concept was developed by the mythical "Yellow Emperor " (not really by Lao Tzu, although the Taoists co-opted it) and his muse to use as a "guideline" for people to live in harmony with nature. This concept is represented by the tai ji, the familiar circle with two "fishes" head to tail symbolizes "balance". Even though we think that the two parts of the Yin/Yang dyad as distinct and separate, nothing could be farther from the truth. It is a continuum. Every traditional Chinese family subconciously eats a balanced diet over the long term, if they weren't caught in another famine. One should strive for balance, and moderation.

Practically, the cook of the household, is bound by tradition, more than his or her knowledge of any high falutin' philosophy. The Chinese family dinner, with all the sung in the middle of the table and each diner with a bowl of rice, has evolved over the years with the Y/Y principles in mind . There is usually a soup , a stirfried dish, a moist cooked dish and a steamed dish, at a minimum depending on the number of diners. (Did you know that there are over 35 terms in the Chinese lexicon to describe various methods of cooking with heat?) Foods whether they be Yin or Yang, are cooked by various methods to achieve an overall balance.

You will see any number of lists segregating all foods into yin, yang and neutral columns. No two are exactly alike. That's because over the years, the people who kept track of such things added some "editing" and personal prejudices to those lists. But, not to worry. There are ways to moderate any food, be it yang or yin. refer back to those 35 cooking methods for the answer. for example, a neutral potato can be converted into a horrendous pile of Yang by deep frying.

The more I learn of these philosophies, the less susceptible in slavishly adhering to them I am. As with everything I do, I take these precepts in moderation. Once the Taoists got corrupted away from the One Truth, that religion (teaching) became less than strictly pure. But that does not mean to say that I am not a believer, nor do I mean to scoff at anything that my mother, aunts, grandmothers, Tepee, Dejah, etc do. Being a true Chinese Mama's Boy, in my childhood I was surrounded in a house jammed pack full of Yin people, and I dearly and deeply loved them. Besides, I loved being catered to.

Edited February 24, 2006 by Ben Hong (log)

[hzrt8w]

(Duplicate post)

Edited February 24, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[jo-mel]

Ben -- to me you are Xiao Ben!

A Jewish friend of mine spoke of the affinity of Chinese food by Jewish people because of Jewish dietary laws concerning dairy -- and therefore the popularity of Chinese restaurants in Jewish neighborhoods.

Who came first? The Yellow Emperor or P'An Ku --- or are they one and the same?

As for yin/yang (or is it yang/yin?) ---- isn't it just balance? A spaghetti dinner is balanced by a salad. Even the steak and fries eaters have a yin beer to balance all that yang.

If we seem naturally to lean toward balance, why do Westerners reach for iced tea on a hot day?