The Garbage Plate

[philadining]

A snowy Saturday evening seems like a good time to take a break from the debates about molecular gastronomy in Manhattan. So, about as far away as you can get, and still be in the New York forum, I give you:

The Garbage Plate.

Rochester, NY is not the home of many culinary innovations. Sure, they created Jell-O nearby in LeRoy, but it’s not as if anyone gushes - “Rochester!! Be sure to try the Jell-O while you’re there!”

There are a few other regional quirks: I’ve never encountered Grape Pies anywhere else, but they’re pretty specific to further south, around Naples, and primarily in the fall; there’s a mania for the Friday “Fish Fry” that extends well beyond observant Catholics and Lent, but sadly doesn’t seem to be raised to a high art despite its ubiquity; and white (all-pork) hot dogs are pretty unique, but not a real destination food. Nothing has reached the iconic status of a Philly Cheesesteak, NOLA Muffaletta, Chicago Hot Dog, or a NY Deli sandwich.

Except, perhaps, The Garbage Plate.

Yet the Garbage Plate is an odd regional specialty. It's well-known, but not widely-consumed, there are plenty of Rochesterians who have never eaten one, and out-of-town guests are rarely dragged out to experience it. (If they’re foodies, they’re taken to the Pittsford Wegman’s supermarket, it’s the one consistently awe-inspiring food destination…)

The Garbage Plate most probably reached legendary status more by reputation than by actual first-hand experience. It’s a perversely excessive pile of diner food, an almost perfect post-drinking-binge beer sponge, therefore holding a fond place in the hearts of the U of R and RIT frat-boy diaspora. But it’s also an inexpensive, filling meal, and popular with more sober patrons all day long.

The basic formula is a pile of home fries, a scoop or two of macaroni salad or baked beans, piled on a plate as a base. Layered on top are most commonly grilled hot dogs or hamburgers, but one can often find the plates offered with chicken, sausages, toasted cheese sandwiches, or anything you’re likely to pull off of a diner flattop. Whatever one has chosen, it’s next slathered with brown mustard, sprinkled with chopped onion, and drizzled with “hot sauce” which in this part of the world means a thin, cinnamon-tinged meat sauce, bearing a vague resemblance to Cincinnati-style chili. And if that’s not quite enough, some bread and butter on the side. They usually sell for about 5 or 6 bucks.

The components are not all that different than what one might find at any diner in America, but piling everything together in an unruly heap is the innovation, hence the name. The hot sauce, and ordering it with white hots, make it more regionally specific, but it really could be done anywhere.

There are many places in Rochester that serve this concoction, under slight variations on the name: Trash Plate, Sloppy Plate, Dumpster Plate, etc. Oddly, there doesn’t seem to be much debate about who makes the best ones, most Rochesterians just don't seem to care. But there's some grudging fondness in the collective unconscious, and whether or not the current version is the best, there's no argument that the Garbage Plate originated at Nick Tahou, on Main Street in Rochester.

The restaurant is in a run-down building, and used to be downright seedy, bordering on dangerous late at night. This original branch now closes pretty early, which eliminates much of the unique Nick Tahou experience: there's something about eating one of these things while wondering if your car will be there when you get back to the parking lot. Back in the 1980s, at about 3am, a buddy and I were offered three less-than-legal opportunities within 15 feet of the back door... But on a recent visit, in the daylight, it seemed pretty calm and safe and actually disorientingly clean, even if the building still looks a bit run-down.

There’s something to be said for drinking from the headspring, and indeed Nick Tahou still makes a fine Garbage Plate. Cheeseburgers were nothing special, but the white hots were quite good, split and grilled dark on the flattop. Home fries were fresh and crispy and not (too) greasy. It’s the hot sauce that really makes these distinctive. It’s not as thick or chunky as chili, it’s not a pepper sauce like Tabasco (it’s not especially spicy - the “hot” refers more to the fact that it’s served warm) but the ground meat and array of spices adds a complimentary texture and tang.

Considering the components individually, it’s just routine diner food. But taken together, with a dash of self-effacing truth-in-advertising in the name, a good Garbage Plate can be greater than the sum of its parts.

It might be interesting to see a careful side-by-side comparison of the different local variations, but I’m not sure any mortal can eat more than one of these in a day.

Except Daniel.

Hey Daniel, any of your roadtrips heading to western NY?!?

[Rebecca263]

Wow! For some reason this sounds fascinating to me. I don't think I could eat half of it, but it would be interesting, especially once you explained the "hot sauce". I'd go for the cheese sandwich bit, myself. Rochester is 6 1/2 miles away, hmm.

[philadining]

Rochester is 6 1/2 miles away, hmm.

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Ummm... 6 1/2 hours from jersey! That's probably what you meant. There's actually a place in Easton PA that does a credible version, more on that here. It would be closer if you're really jonesing for a Garbage Plate.

[Rebecca263]

Rochester is 6 1/2 miles away, hmm.

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Ummm... 6 1/2 hours from jersey! That's probably what you meant. There's actually a place in Easton PA that does a credible version, more on that here. It would be closer if you're really jonesing for a Garbage Plate.

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Heh, heh, yup! I'm from South Beach, my brain is a little sun baked and it doesn't work so well during snow storms!

[docsconz]

While not a "garbage plate" per se, your description, Jeff, reminds me of Dirty John's dirt dogs in Glens Falls. They are hot dogs with onions and similarly styled sauce. Clearly they are lacking a number of the ingredients that the garbage plate possesses, but the similarity extends beyond the smothered hot dog to the seediness and personality of the original location. I can't say that I eat then myself, though

[philadining]

Dirty John and Nick Tahou sound like kindred spirits at least!

That general type of "hot sauce" is fairly common around the area, probably not too hard to find in much of upstate NY. From the spicing, I had guessed it was a Greek diner thing, but it's really common to find similar sauces at mom and pop hot dog stands in western NY as well, so maybe not. And it's not too different from another chili-ish sauce I've gotten even down here in PA, at Yocco's in Allentown.

Holly probably knows the story.

[philadining]

If for some odd reason, people want more details, there's a disturbing amount of info on the web.

Probably the main reason for the Garbage Plate's fame is the Sterns' Roadfood book, and now website.

A purported recipe.

The wikipedia entry.

A brief travelogue.

The self-declared definitive guide.

and on and on...

[raji]

Could someone cross-reference this with incidence of heart disease???

This thread makes me want to suck on lard

[Double 0]

In Jersey you can get a similar plate at most Texas weiner places, Frenchy all the way. It consists of french fries, mustard, chopped raw onions, and Texas weiner sauce. Add a couple of Texas weiners to the plate and some hot sauce and ketchup (the way I like it) and you've got a masterpeice. One place I know uses tater tots instead of FF.

[JohnL]

Damn! that thing looks pretty good.

For a brief period of time I attended college in the Rochester area.

I remember--"beef on a weck"--IMOP--one of the great sandwiches in the world --more Buffalo than Rochester though.

also I recall something called a "Bermuda Steak sandwich"--definitely Rochester.

anyone know anything about this creation?

Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse--one can get some pretty good eats in this "golden triangle,."

[Rebecca263]

In Jersey you can get a similar plate at most Texas weiner places, Frenchy all the way. It consists of french fries, mustard, chopped raw onions, and Texas weiner sauce. Add a couple of Texas weiners to the plate and some hot sauce and ketchup (the way I like it) and you've got a masterpeice. One place I know uses tater tots instead of FF.

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Well, Frenchy is always a good adjective, in my book! Where, exactly, in Jersey, are these places? Kiddle will be ready for another meat meal in a week or so.... (watching 16 year old rub her tummy after finishing off a pound of fresh rare roast of cow.. ).

[Double 0]

In Jersey you can get a similar plate at most Texas weiner places, Frenchy all the way. It consists of french fries, mustard, chopped raw onions, and Texas weiner sauce. Add a couple of Texas weiners to the plate and some hot sauce and ketchup (the way I like it) and you've got a masterpeice. One place I know uses tater tots instead of FF.

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Well, Frenchy is always a good adjective, in my book! Where, exactly, in Jersey, are these places? Kiddle will be ready for another meat meal in a week or so.... (watching 16 year old rub her tummy after finishing off a pound of fresh rare roast of cow.. ).

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Hot Grill in Clifton or Johnie and Hanges in Patterson/Fairlawn if you like the Tater Tot style

[lesfen]

Should I be ashamed that those pictures actually made me salivate?

[rlibkind]

Should I be ashamed that those pictures actually made me salivate?

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Hey, you live in Akron. You can go for Barberton chicken. Here in Philadelphia and NJ we can't do that (though I'm planning to make a detour on my next Phila-Wisconsin drive).

[JohnnyH]

Damn! that thing looks pretty good.

For a brief period of time I attended college in the Rochester area.

I remember--"beef on a weck"--IMOP--one of the great sandwiches in the world --more Buffalo than Rochester though.

also I recall something called a "Bermuda Steak sandwich"--definitely Rochester.

anyone know anything about this creation?

Buffalo, Rochester and Syracuse--one can get some pretty good eats in this "golden triangle,."

←

I used to be a reporter for The Buffalo News -- beef on weck is buffalo all the way. There's a lot to be said for a city full of old-school bars where the barman can make you a great sandwich simply by walking over to the carving board in between pouring pints. A dying breed.

[philadining]

I remember--"beef on a weck"--IMOP--one of the great sandwiches in the world --more Buffalo than Rochester though.

Indeed! Warm, thin sliced beef, warmed in jus, topped with a bit of horseradish, on a fresh kimmelwick roll (a kaiser-ish roll with caraway seeds and coarse salt on top, for the uninitiated), deserves to be WAY more famous than it is. But it's pretty rare even in Rochester, definitely more of a Buffalo/Grand Island/Niagara Falls thing. (although you can get the rolls in Wegmans.) I'm fairly sure that in and around Buffalo, one is required by law to serve beef on wick at all events that more than 6 people attend. Yes, that includes weddings.

[lesfen]

Should I be ashamed that those pictures actually made me salivate?

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Hey, you live in Akron. You can go for Barberton chicken. Here in Philadelphia and NJ we can't do that (though I'm planning to make a detour on my next Phila-Wisconsin drive).

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Yum. That looks like the perfect summer cookout plate.

I actually work in Barberton, altho' I haven't hit the chicken houses in quite some time. It might be about that time...

[Holly Moore]

I remember--"beef on a weck"--IMOP--one of the great sandwiches in the world --more Buffalo than Rochester though.

Indeed! Warm, thin sliced beef, warmed in jus, topped with a bit of horseradish, on a fresh kimmelwick roll (a kaiser-ish roll with caraway seeds and coarse salt on top, for the uninitiated), deserves to be WAY more famous than it is. But it's pretty rare even in Rochester, definitely more of a Buffalo/Grand Island/Niagara Falls thing. (although you can get the rolls in Wegmans.) I'm fairly sure that in and around Buffalo, one is required by law to serve beef on wick at all events that more than 6 people attend. Yes, that includes weddings.

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Standard fare during my college years in Ithaca. The beef couldn't be rare enough. Enough horseradish to make it a rite of passage. And beer. Lots of beer. Utica club as I recall.

[rlibkind]

And beer.  Lots of beer.  Utica club as I recall.

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What, not Genny Cream?

[phaelon56]

And beer.  Lots of beer.  Utica club as I recall.

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What, not Genny Cream?

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Genny Cream was made from the sparkling waters of the Genesee River if I recall correctly but Utica Club was brought to us by the same fine folks who offered the Beer Ball and the notorious Maximus Super (No - not a Roman emperor - just a high alcohol content beer).

From the Sabomedia.com web site

Have you heard of Maximus Super Beer? Oven bags? Master Blend coffee? Pringles. Aw, Pringles. Procter and Gamble, you know that pesky soap company that has never visited the cutting edge, they believe in two boring concepts: Research. Test markets.

Students at Syracuse University witnessed a remarkable event in the Spring of 1972. Beer buzz kill. Syracuse was a popular test market. Companies would test the viability of their product and advertising there. Maximus Super beer was special. It tasted like beer. Looked like beer. But had twice the alcohol content. Sure enough, students drank it like normal beer and were whacked out of their minds twice as fast. There weren’t enough ambulances.

I think the Buffalo - Rochester - Syracuse axis has a few commonalities but also a surprising number of differences. Beef on a weck was unknown in Syracuse when I was growing up and even now we do have Clark's Ale House serving a fantastic version but they're the only ones in town who really have it.

We have white hots here (aka coneys or cooneys) but no one here would dream of buying or eating a Rochester brand or any made outside of this area - it's Hoffman's or Meir & Ranz or nothing.

The Garbage Plate never caught on here yet we've had countless diners for years that have filled that late night alcohol sop-up service with giant frittata's. Italian sausage, potato chunks, pepperoni, onion, green pepper, red pepper, eggs... and whatever else will make a mound big enough to cover a 12" platter about 6" high.

And that sauce used on the garbage plate? Plenty of Greek diners here but no such sauce.

Salt potatoes don't seem to have made it more than 20 miles outside of Syracuse in any direction in terms of their popularity. Speaking of which.... just last week the community was shocked to learn of the

Not So Mysterious Case of the Counterfeit Salt Potatoes

As for Friday fish fry - it's still very popular here but only a handful of places still use fresh genuine haddock - that accounts for why so many people think most fish fry doesn't taste as good as it used to - because it's true.

[philadining]

We have white hots here (aka coneys or cooneys) but no one here would dream of buying or eating a Rochester brand or any made outside of this area - it's Hoffman's or Meir & Ranz or nothing.

Interesting... I hadn't known there was that kind of parochialism, but true enough, in RaChaCha Zweigle's white hots are pretty dominant, and I'm sure buying some other brand would be considered as big a sin as putting Fuji film in that Instamatic.

I've certainly encountered salt potatoes out west of Syracuse, but I wouldn't call them common.

And what's up with the fixation on Haddock? Fish Fry is one thing, but I've even seen it on menus striving for gourmet heights, tarted-up in swanky presentations usually reserved for Chilean Sea Bass and Halibut in most modern kitchens.

(And let's just not talk about the Genny Scream Ale...)

[flinflon28]

When I was in college in Washington D.C my roomate would have these mailed to him in dry ice overnight from Nick Tahus. I'm not kidding.

Edited February 14, 2006 by flinflon28 (log)

[lambretta76]

In NYC, Bonnie's in Park Slope, which is owned by some Buffalo ex-pats, serves great wings and beef on weck. Oh, and Genny Cream Ale, too!

As for Garbage Plates, I had way to many of these while living in Syracuse. (I was in a band in Rochester whose practices usually culminated with a trip to Java Joe's and then a trek over to Tahou's.)

I remember that if you didn't finish your plate, within seconds of getting up one of the panhandlers within would sit down and start eating your leftovers. Disgusted the hell out of me, but man I loved those plates.

Outside in the parking lot, there used to be a stalagmite of grease underneath one of the vents. One night I wasn't paying attention and slipped in this, just missing the pile. I imagine I would still smell like a Garbage Plate if I had had a direct hit.

Edited February 14, 2006 by lambretta76 (log)

[JohnL]

Anyone remember something called a "Bermuda Steak Sandwich?"

As I recall from my days in the late sixties at Genesee State:

It was a rectangular chopped meat (beef) patty on a rectangular roll with

onion (Bermuda of course?) lettuce and a sauce (I vaguely recall as mayonnaise based) and maybe some other fixins.

Obtainable at the local diner.

Also--Beef on a Weck is basically a French dip --the roll is special to Buffalo. My understanding is the French Dip originates from a place in Los Angeles. I am not sure of the timing.

[GordonCooks]

If for some odd reason, people want more details, there's a disturbing amount of info on the web.

Probably the main reason for the Garbage Plate's fame is the Sterns' Roadfood book, and now website.

A purported recipe.

The wikipedia entry.

A brief travelogue.

The self-declared definitive guide.

and on and on...

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That's not the real recipe - Nick (the father) had to give it up at a card game years ago (he's since passed on)