What's with the bread?

[mikeycook]

A group of us had a great meal at Veritas the other night but one thing we noticed was that the bread was nothing special, something that I noticed as a common thread through several restaurant week destinations (including Lupa and Union Square Cafe). In fact, it seems to me that it has been a while since I have had decent restaurant bread (went to L'Impero and Gotham Bar & Grill end of last year and neither of them had good bread either).

A lot of the restaurants seem to offer the same thing, a basket with three (sometimes four) options, usually olive, ciabatta, and something else. The breads do not taste particularly fresh and are not warm (which I wouldn't care about if the bread was fresh). They all have the appearance of having been gotten from the same source.

Is there a common bakery that most restaurants are using now?

When we used to dine at Bouley more regularly, fresh-baked breads were one of the hallmarks of the meal, something I always looked forward to. Now bread, even at top places, seems to have taken the role of filler starch.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

In addition to Bouley, how about some other top restaurants that are making their own bread?

[weinoo]

Falai on Clinton St. bakes bread during service - and if you're lucky, you get some right out of the oven (after cooling off, of course). Always love the bread at Balthazaar & Schiller's.

[Bux]

. . . .

In addition to Bouley, how about some other top restaurants that are making their own bread?

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The bread at Daniel is baked in house.

[oakapple]

Although I cannot recall every specific instance, I agree that the bread service at many New York restaurants is not up to the level of the rest of the food.

[mikeycook]

Does anyone know if restaurants that don't bake their own buy from many of the same sources? It seems there is an incredible sameness to a lot of the bread. For a while, I used to see the round white roll with the flat disk piece on one side (it seemed every restaurant in Tribeca used it). The olive and ciabatta bread I had at Veritas seemed identical to what I had at Union Square Cafe. Is it possible they all use a similar bakery, like City Bakery, to get their bread?

[alanamoana]

i don't think city bakery is a wholesale bakery so much as a restaurant with great baked goods...the upper end restaurants who don't bake in house would probably get their bread from any of the following:

amy's

sullivan street

blue ribbon

tomcat

i'm sure there are more.

it is disappointing most of the time (bread service, that is). i do think that most restaurants don't care enough about the bread as it is a giveaway item and has to be figured into food cost.

[menton1]

The bread at Daniel is baked in house.

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Sometimes these restaurants would be better off to buy their bread from a great bread bakery, rather than making it themselves. Remember, Subway advertises that they bake their own bread...

I do second Balthazar, though. They have great bread, and they also sell it retail.

[chefboy24]

well,

most restaurants get their bread from huge bakerys like sullivan street or pain d'avignon or amy's...around 8 am......and they sit in a paper bag from then until dinner service at 5:30 pm where some backwaiter who couldnt give a damn will start slicing the long loaves and loading rolls into baskets. which is why the bread tastes old. because it is...about 12 hours old and sitting out all day.

sad fact.

Edited February 10, 2006 by chefboy24 (log)

[mikeycook]

well,

most restaurants get their bread from huge bakerys like sullivan street or pain d'avignon or amy's...around 8 am......and they sit in a paper bag from then until dinner service at 5:30 pm where some backwaiter will start slicing the long loaves and loading rolls into baskets.  which is why the bread tastes old. because it is...about 12 hours old and sitting out all day.

sad fact.

←

Thank you. That is what I suspected, but wasn't sure.

Does anyone know if there is a reason why they don't at least warm the bread? Is that considered passe? If it isn't going to be good, at least it could be warm.

Edited February 11, 2006 by mikeycook (log)

[chefboy24]

well,

most restaurants get their bread from huge bakerys like sullivan street or pain d'avignon or amy's...around 8 am......and they sit in a paper bag from then until dinner service at 5:30 pm where some  backwaiter will start slicing the long loaves and loading rolls into baskets.  which is why the bread tastes old. because it is...about 12 hours old and sitting out all day.

sad fact.

←

Thank you. That is what I suspected, but wasn't sure.

Does anyone know if there is a reason why they don't at least warm the bread? Is that considered passe? If it isn't going to be good, at least it could be warm.

←

interesting. most restaurants don't these days.

maybe the bread is already cooked to done and anything more would dry it out further....?

more rustic breads are fine at room temperature to me , but bread right out of the oven is nice.

Edited February 11, 2006 by docsconz (log)

[eatrustic]

Warming bread creates labor issues as well as equipment issues. I don't recall having warm bread in any of the European restaurants that I have eaten in. (Although I've mainly dined in Italy and almost never in 3 star places).

As nice as warm bread is it's not good for digestion and we always eat more than we should. (Another reason restaurants don't like to heat the free stuff.)

Any good quality bread that comes from a place like Sullivan St., Amy's etc. should be quite acceptable 12 hours later (unless you want squishy soft). Sure if it's presliced and left to sit in the open air it will stale fairly quickly but unless the restaurateurs are paying lip service to their bread offering it isn't that hard to preslice a certain amount of bread and keep it covered.

Of course we can always go the route of the coperto (Italy) which is an automatic charge on your bill (for what better be damn good bread).

[M.X.Hassett]

Anyone know how much bread is exported from the NJ Balthazar to the NYC branches?

[FabulousFoodBabe]

Anyone have an opinion on whether the bread was better pre-Atkins?

[rich]

How about BYOB - bring your own bread. Solves the problem

Edited February 11, 2006 by rich (log)

[weinoo]

Had dinner at Bouley last night and the bread service was great. They start you off with two house-baked rolls, butter, and then another 15 minutes or so later a cart rolls up and they slice whatever of 6 or 7 varieties of bread you'd like. Of the 4 we tried, not a clunker in the group. One of the best bread services I've had in any restaurant.

[mikeycook]

Had dinner at Bouley last night and the bread service was great.  They start you off with two house-baked rolls, butter, and then another 15 minutes or so later a cart rolls up and they slice whatever of 6 or 7 varieties of bread you'd like.  Of the 4 we tried, not a clunker in the group.  One of the best bread services I've had in any restaurant.

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In my opinion, Bouley has long been a great source of bread. I used to go for their apple bread alone.

That being said, a lot of the substandard bread I've had at other restaurants isn't even sliced. It's rolls. I just can't see how the bread can have turned bad in twelve hours unless it's a) older than that or b) wasn't that good to begin with.

I can understand restaurants not wanting to deal with heated bread. If it's good bread, I prefer not to have it heated.

Maybe bringing my own bread is a good idea.

[IML]

mikeycook: Most of the bread served in restaurants in NYC is made by either Sullivan Street Bakery, Amy's Bread, Pain D'Avignon, or Tom Cat Bakery, and all use a combination of a "natural starter" and commercial yeast, the latter to ensure a full, plump bread that rises on a strict timetable. These are all large-scale bakeries, where the dough tends to be overmixed (and consequently overly oxidized), resulting in a light, pliable bread that exhibits sufficient oven spring. Take into account that most of the baking is finished by seven a.m. even though it's not served until dinner service; that most of the loaves served at restaurants are shapes (rolls, batards, baguettes and their variants) with a large surface area to crumb ratio; and breads that do not retain moisture very well -- and, well, you get the picture.

Most high-end restaurants that have in-house bread service in NYC, with the exception of Bouley, make direct-method breads (i.e., without the use of pre-ferments or a levain) that are baked in conventional gas-fired ovens, resulting in fresher, if more boring, specimens.

il

Edited February 12, 2006 by IML (log)