When buying organic pays (and doesn't)

[Gifted Gourmet]

Consumer Report article here

Know when it pays to buy organic food products to reduce your exposure to pesticides and other additives, when it might sometimes pay, and when it’s a waste of your money. Use this section the next time you’re making a grocery list.

Section #1

Buy these items organic as often as possible

Section #2

Buy these items organic if price is no object

Section #3

Don’t bother buying these items organic

Each section gives the organic foods, why to buy those, and what you'll pay for them ... quite an eye opener! See for yourself!

related article can be read here from Consumer Reports

For many shoppers, the decision often comes down to money. On average, you’ll pay 50 percent extra for organic food, but you can easily end up shelling out 100 percent more, especially for milk and meat. Nevertheless, organic products are one of the fastest-growing categories in the food business. Nearly two-thirds of U.S. consumers bought organic foods and beverages in 2005, up from about half in 2004. While some buy organic to support its producers’ environmentally friendly practices, most are trying to cut their exposure to chemicals in the foods they eat.

[eje]

Interesting that Consumer Reports is now lending its gravity to this study.

We talked about this earlier after an article was published.

I think PatrickS' thoughts on the validity of the study are really interesting food for thought.

It's also good to remember that "Organic" is only part of the equation, when considering what food to buy.

A couple interesting tangential facts I've run across since posting the original thread.

A winery who I respect gave up on organic certification after getting frustrated with many of the seemingly arbitrary rules imposed. If I remember correctly, the clincher for them was when they were told they could only use "natural" sulphur to spray their grapes. Otherwise, they are a model of stewardship of their land, responsible water use, and treating their employees decently.

I recently read an article about the Peruvian coffee industry. Since there is now a greater demand for fair trade organic coffee than supply, Peru has jumped on the bandwagon, and is now clear cutting large swaths of rain forest so they can plant new fields, get them certified, and sell Organic coffee.

And to piggyback a little more on Patrick's thoughts, just because a substance is "organic" or "natural" there is no real guarantee that it is not toxic. Many of the most deadly poisons known to man are organic. Ricin, Botulin, Pyrethrin, etc. are all naturally derived substances. That makes them no less poisonous to man or other animals.

[slkinsey]

This keeps on coming up. Here is another thread talking about more or less the same thing. This is all based on a horribly biased scare-tactic "report" by the Environmental Working Group, and as I detailed in the above-referenced thread, Consumers Union has been slammed for publicizing this stuff in the past.

Above and beyond the naturally-occurring pesticides produced by the vegetables themselves, there are also the "natural pesticides and fungicides" that organic farmers are allowed to use on their crops . . . like copper sulfate and other things far nastier than their "artificial" cousins.

[divalasvegas]

Pardon my ignorance, but would purchasing Kosher or Halal meat and poultry be considered organic? Should one assume that because the meat or poultry is certified Kosher or Halal that those products would easily qualify as organic? I had been considering purchasing these forms of meat and poultry, at least as much as I can afford.

Especially in avoidance of mad cow disease, I believe the Kosher way of butchering an animal makes anyone eating Kosher meat at nearly a zero risk of contracting that disease; same goes for ecoli. I don't know about Halal meat/poultry products in that regard.

[docsconz]

Especially in avoidance of mad cow disease, I believe the Kosher way of butchering an animal makes anyone eating Kosher meat at nearly a zero risk of contracting that disease; same goes for ecoli.  I don't know about Halal meat/poultry products in that regard.

←

How might this be so?

[Pan]

Pardon my ignorance, but would purchasing Kosher or Halal meat and poultry be considered organic?  Should one assume that because the meat or poultry is certified Kosher or Halal that those products would easily qualify as organic?

←

Nope.

Especially in avoidance of mad cow disease, I believe the Kosher way of butchering an animal makes anyone eating Kosher meat at nearly a zero risk of contracting that disease; same goes for ecoli.  I don't know about Halal meat/poultry products in that regard.

←

Please elaborate. I suppose you're suggesting that kosher meat is less likely to have spinal cord tissue in it and won't include "downer" cattle, but that does not guarantee that there is no risk of transmission of mad cow disease. I wouldn't be sure that e coli contamination is impossible, either.

Kashrut in slaughtering has more to do with the way the animal is killed (cut to the throat) and whether a rabbi is supervising than what the animal is fed or how clean the meat is. I'd like to think that cleanliness is a requirement of kashrut, but I've read too much about dirty kosher shops in England and so forth to believe that.

[loiosh]

I personally find that it's not so much the organic-ness as the other values that tend to be found with it which sometimes make these better products. One is that organic producers often choose less-common, possibly 'heirloom' varieties of the crops they grow. The second is that organic stuff is often sold closer to the source, so among other things, it can actually get ripe before it goes on the shelf.

What's really funny or depressing, depending on my outlook that day, is going to the 'natural foods' store (in Australia) and seeing all the same products on the shelves which you might see at a Whole Foods. How much better is it for the environment if we buy organic cereal that's been shipped by an enormous diesel-belching container ship from Canada or the US? (And just to make things *extra* ironic, they put a dang koala on the box.)

[divalasvegas]

Especially in avoidance of mad cow disease, I believe the Kosher way of butchering an animal makes anyone eating Kosher meat at nearly a zero risk of contracting that disease; same goes for ecoli.  I don't know about Halal meat/poultry products in that regard.

←

How might this be so?

←

From what little I know--and I admit docsconz it's not a whole lot--it's the handbutchering of the animal, in this case a cow and the fact that certain pieces of the cow is considered to be unfit/not Kosher. Years ago in Minnesota (can't remember the city or town) for instance people began getting ill and the local health experts finally figured out it was the ground beef. Well, the processing plant had until recently been owned by Jewish people who butchered all of their meat by hand (for decades with no problems), avoiding cutting the colon/other intestinal tracts. The new owners, however, decided to "modernize" and did everything mechanically with the result being that contents of the colon were mixed in with the processed/ground beef and people contracted e-coli. Also I believe meat from the spinal cord area and the cord itself is considered to not be Kosher.

Edited for additional comments/clarification (and the fact that my fingers aren't working very well today).

Edited January 11, 2006 by divalasvegas (log)

[docsconz]

Thanks, DLV. That certainly makes sense vis-a-vis e.coli. I'm not so sure about the mad cow even if the spinal cord, etc. is avoided, although that probably wouldn't hurt.

[divalasvegas]

Pardon my ignorance, but would purchasing Kosher or Halal meat and poultry be considered organic?  Should one assume that because the meat or poultry is certified Kosher or Halal that those products would easily qualify as organic?

←

Nope.

Especially in avoidance of mad cow disease, I believe the Kosher way of butchering an animal makes anyone eating Kosher meat at nearly a zero risk of contracting that disease; same goes for ecoli.  I don't know about Halal meat/poultry products in that regard.

←

Please elaborate. I suppose you're suggesting that kosher meat is less likely to have spinal cord tissue in it and won't include "downer" cattle, but that does not guarantee that there is no risk of transmission of mad cow disease. I wouldn't be sure that e coli contamination is impossible, either.

Kashrut in slaughtering has more to do with the way the animal is killed (cut to the throat) and whether a rabbi is supervising than what the animal is fed or how clean the meat is. I'd like to think that cleanliness is a requirement of kashrut, but I've read too much about dirty kosher shops in England and so forth to believe that.

←

Thanks Pan. Sorry to hear about the dirty Kosher shops in England. As I had stated in an earlier post, the case I referred to in Minnesota was documented in excrutiating detail and it was the conclusion that, at least for that particular meat processing plant, when the animals were butchered by hand there was never any e-coli contamination. It was only when it became mechanized that this happened. Of course, I'm sure the care taken when hand butchering a cow would vary from establishment to establishment.

[Patrick S]

Especially in avoidance of mad cow disease, I believe the Kosher way of butchering an animal makes anyone eating Kosher meat at nearly a zero risk of contracting that disease;

←

Well, since Mad Cow disease only occurs in cows, humans are already at zero risk of contracting it. On a more serious note, since the risk is vCJD is so extremely low to begin with (there is no evidence that anyone has ever contracted it from eating US beef), and the spread of BSE among cows is linked to feed practices like rendering that are no longer used, that I would spend my meager health-risk-reducing food premium on something else.

If I recall correctly, one two cows in the US have ever tested positive for BSE, and both were born before the rendering ban took effect. In UK, by contrast, about 200,000 cows were positive for BSE, and even so, only about 150 people in the UK have died of vCJD, and it is estimated the total number of deaths from vCJD will be about 200 (Valleron et al, 2001. Estimation of epidemic size and incubation time based on age characteristics of vCJD in the United Kingdom. Science 294(5547):1726-8).

[Csaville]

I recently read an article about the Peruvian coffee industry.  Since there is now a greater demand for fair trade organic coffee than supply, Peru has jumped on the bandwagon, and is now clear cutting large swaths of rain forest so they can plant new fields, get them certified, and sell Organic coffee.

←

Any idea where you might have read this? I am looking for some background on this very topic!!

Thanks,

Chantal

[eje]

I recently read an article about the Peruvian coffee industry.  Since there is now a greater demand for fair trade organic coffee than supply, Peru has jumped on the bandwagon, and is now clear cutting large swaths of rain forest so they can plant new fields, get them certified, and sell Organic coffee.

←

Any idea where you might have read this? I am looking for some background on this very topic!!

Thanks,

Chantal

←

It was a website not a magazine article:

Peruvian Coffee

[Csaville]

←

[TAPrice]

Consumer Reports offers its opinion on when to buy organic:

"When Buying Organic Pays (and doesn't)"

For those who don't want to click, here is the magazine's short answer:

Buy these items organic as often as possible: Apples, bell peppers, celery, cherries, imported grapes, nectarines, peaches, pears, potatoes, red raspberries, spinach, strawberries, meat, poultry, eggs, dairy, and baby food.

If price is no object: Asparagus, avocados, bananas, broccoli, cauliflower, sweet corn, kiwi, mangos, onions, papaya, pineapples, sweet peas, breads, oils, potato chips, pasta, cereals, and other packaged foods, such as canned or dried fruit and vegetable.

Don't bother buying organic: Seafood.

[kiliki]

The article assumes the only possible reason anyone would buy organic is for "added health value." Most people I know (including myself) don't like to support companies that use pesticides since they pollute groundwater and streams, harm wildlife, and have significant impacts on the health of agricultural workers. I hate to think that people will read CR, think "Great! It's fine to buy non-organic bananas since there aren't many pesticide residues left on them!" while ignoring the larger harm caused by pesticides.

[jackal10]

Not sure I would agree about not bothering with organic seafood.

Wild seafood maybe, but even there its vital to ensure they are from sustainable populations. For farmed seafood - prawns and salmon, for example, organic is much better quality and kinder to the environment. You really wouldn't want to ingest some of the chemicals and additives they treat farmed fish with.

[Patrick S]

The article assumes the only possible reason anyone would buy organic is for "added health value." Most people I know (including myself) don't like to support companies that use pesticides since they pollute groundwater and streams, harm wildlife, and have significant impacts on the health of agricultural workers.

←

Well, I assume that you are aware that "organic" does not and never has meant "pesticide-free," and that organic farmers are free to use, and do use, a number of pesticides that are toxic to non-target widllife, so long as they are not synthetic? For instance, organic farmers are free to use rotenone, which is derived from Derris root, but not the similar synthetic compounds fenazaquin, pyridaben, amidinohydrazone, hydramethylnon or perfluorooctanesulfonamide, even though rotenone, the organic pesticide, appears to have the higher acute mammalian toxicity among these compounds. Maybe the environmental farms have a lower aggregate environmental toxicity when all the pesticides, their relative toxicities and application rates are considered. I don't know. But I do know, from conversations with friends, that a lot of organic consumers are under the mistaken assumption that organic produce is grown without the use of pesticides.

Edited January 14, 2006 by Patrick S (log)

[russ parsons]

and also that there is not a black-and-white separation between "pure" organic farming and "evil" chemical farming. there is a huge gray area that involves the responsible use of chemicals when they are absolutely necessary. i think it is a real shame that "organic" has come to be shorthand for what i prefer to call "artisanal" farming. most of the best farmers i know--the ones who grow the best produce--are either non-organic (but barely) or are very upfront about being organic only for the financial incentive that comes with the label.

[fifi]

and also that there is not a black-and-white separation between "pure" organic farming and "evil" chemical farming. there is a huge gray area that involves the responsible use of chemicals when they are absolutely necessary. i think it is a real shame that "organic" has come to be shorthand for what i prefer to call "artisanal" farming. most of the best farmers i know--the ones who grow the best produce--are either non-organic (but barely) or are very upfront about being organic only for the financial incentive that comes with the label.

←

Gee, russ. I see the topic of an article in there. (That is if you haven't already written it.)

I have talked to a few (3) of my colleagues that retired when I did last year and that are toying with the idea of raising stuff for the "specialty" market. We are talking heirloom fruits and vegetables, exotic birds, herbs and such. They have looked at the requirements for getting "organic" certification and are really pretty dubious that such a thing really has much to do with being better, healthier or more environmentally friendly. These are knowledgeable folks with science backgrounds and years of experience growing and raising foodstuffs as a hobby. They are pretty much of the opinion that the only reason they would go for the certification is for a marketing reason. All of them have always practised responsible gardening and such. I suppose I would consider them "artisanal" according to russ's definition.

[kiliki]

Well, I assume that you are aware that "organic" does not and never has meant "pesticide-free," and that organic farmers are free to use, and do use, a number of pesticides that are toxic to non-target widllife, so long as they are not synthetic? For instance, organic farmers are free to use rotenone, which is derived from Derris root, but not the similar synthetic compounds fenazaquin, pyridaben, amidinohydrazone, hydramethylnon or perfluorooctanesulfonamide, even though rotenone, the organic pesticide, appears to have the higher acute mammalian toxicity among these compounds.

For a number of years I worked for a local chain of natural food co-ops, and through this job I got to know dozens (hundreds?) of organic farmers, many that have been in business LONG before it was fashionable. Most of these folks believed in land stewardship that went above and beyond the letter of the law. Many considered legal organic standards far too lax and fought hard against federal standards that were far lesser than existing state laws. So while I understand your point that indeed, people should understand there organic doesn't have to mean pesticide free (I think the piont Russ makes about "gray area" is a good one), you also can't assume that all organic farmers simply use the label as a marketing strategy and do take advantage of laws that allow them to use pesticides.

Maybe the environmental farms have a lower aggregate environmental toxicity when all the pesticides, their relative toxicities and application rates are considered. I don't know.

I don't know the answer to this either, but it seems prudent to understand this before coming to the conclusion that "organic" is virtually meaningless.

[russ parsons]

let's make sure we're not getting into more black-and-white here. there are some very good farmers who are organic and the organic movement overall has affected the way lots of non-organic farmers operate, both by proving that it can be done and by proving there is an incentive for doing it.

but organic is not an answer in and of itself. read julie guthman's very good critique of california's organic movement, "agrarian dreams." it's important to realize that what a lot of us think we mean when we say "organic" is not necessarily the full picture. there are 2,000 acre industrial farms that grow organically.