Please help with cannele recipe

[Jim Dixon]

Ken's Artisan Bakery in Portland makes incredible canneles...they flavor them with a bit of orange zest, and I know the molds are lined with a butter-beeswax blend.

I watched the batter going into the molds, and it was very thin, if that helps.

Jim

[Michael Laiskonis]

Parisians consider Poujauran to have the definitive classic cannelés in the city. They're very good but I hate the women who work there.

I definitely sense that people either love or hate Poujauran. I'm in the former group. I think his basic pastry (financiers, cannelés, etc.) is as good as his bread. We tend to stay in that neighborhood when we go, and Poujuaran is always the first stop once we hit the pavement. When the girls are snooty, I actually find it a bit amusing!

The best cannelés I've had stateside were indeed the ones at La Brea Bakery in Los Angeles.

Edited February 23, 2003 by Michael Laiskonis (log)

[thelastsupper]

I have only seen the beeswax method. And it was melted by a torch (which helped the overall color of the canneles). I was in Bordeaux and the Périgord this summer and of all the ones I sampled, all had flecks of vanilla. Yum. Fill them full (or as full as you had them to get them barely puffed, rather) and let the beeswax take care of the color! Maybe.

[Louisa Chu]

nightscotsman, I've got pastry tomorrow so will definitely ask then. I'm dying to find out. Doing regional cakes tomorrow so this will be interesting.

An aside, most of my classmates hate when I ask questions. It sometimes depresses me. I wish we had the kind of discussions there as we do here.

Michael, as for Poujauran, I have a love/hate relationship with them. I like their more interesting boulangerie items - especially a crusty mini fig/nut bread - but have not been impressed with their viennoiserie - find their croissant au beurre almost always a bit sloppy and overbaked - canneles good - but a little lacking in toothsomeness sometimes. But their rudeness, shocking. I will not buy from there - if I want something, I ask a friend to pick it up.

Just wanted to add - they're not being snooty. In fact it's quite the opposite.

Edited February 23, 2003 by loufood (log)

[Joni]

Jim....Ken's Bakery is where I tasted them!! Then I read the recipe from Fleur de Lys in Williams-Sonoma... so I am going to buy the silicone form for canneles from them..that way the "mold" problem of sticking should not be a worry! Now...to get them to taste like Ken's!!

[kitwilliams]

Beeswax. Interesting topic and perhaps should be a new thread but, as I will use it only in conjunction with canneles, I'll leave it here...

I have a swarm of bees living on the side of my house. They have built the most amazing honeycomb -- five feet in length and about 15" at the widest spot. Is there any way I could put some of their wax (the honey is delicious) to use? Anyone here know how beeswax gets to the state where it can be used to coat canneles molds?

[Louisa Chu]

Asked one of the pastry chefs - Chef Pascal. He's only made them once so he warns that he's not an expert with this one - though I assure you he is with just about everything else. Described your problem - "C'est bizarre, non?!" - and thinks that you may want to cook your batter first a bit like a pate a choux. When he's seen them made the batter's been quite thick.

I will ask some of the other chefs too. Pastry again tomorrow.

Also, can you check out Dorie Greenspan's Paris Sweets? I think she has the Poujauran recipe in there. I'll be seeing her next week - gallery talk and book signing at La Hune - and will try to ask her then.

More later this week.

And kit your bees sound so cool!

[kitwilliams]

And kit your bees sound so cool!

They are, lou...we love them! But our neighbors are scared to death (ooh -- they are probably killer bees!!!) and keep threatening to call local authorities.

Just let them try

I'm going to move my question to a new thread so that it might get the attention it undoubtedly deserves. Ha!

[nightscotsman]

Asked one of the pastry chefs - Chef Pascal. He's only made them once so he warns that he's not an expert with this one - though I assure you he is with just about everything else. Described your problem - "C'est bizarre, non?!" - and thinks that you may want to cook your batter first a bit like a pate a choux. When he's seen them made the batter's been quite thick.

I will ask some of the other chefs too. Pastry again tomorrow.

Also, can you check out Dorie Greenspan's Paris Sweets? I think she has the Poujauran recipe in there. I'll be seeing her next week - gallery talk and book signing at La Hune - and will try to ask her then.

More later this week.

And kit your bees sound so cool!

Thanks for asking, lou. The pre-cooking sounds interesting. All of the recipes I've tried so far produce a very thin batter and require chilling for at least 24 hours. I baked the Herme recipe again last night, including chilling the molds, though I used a combo of butter and lecithin to coat them. Same problem, but still tasty (they are addictive). I will try to get some beeswax, though I doubt if that would make a difference since I'm not having any sticking problems. I wish I could actually watch somebody make these things.

Oh, and I just checked Dorie's book and didn't see a cannele recipe. It would be great if you could ask her if she's made them and might have some tips. Thanks!

Edited February 25, 2003 by nightscotsman (log)

[thelastsupper]

I don't think that the beeswax is used to prevent sticking necessarily-- rather to help it get the proper color before the inside overcooks. It also imparts flavor and helps give the cannele a little crunch.

[hedgehog]

A version of the official recipe for canele de Bordeaux was published in Food Arts about 2 years ago

The canelé de Bordeaux is the official cake of the city, while cannelé Bordelais is the name used in Paris, New York City, Osaka, Los Angeles, or wherever.

In the article, it describes lining the copper molds with a film of "white oil" a blend of melted beeswax, melted butter and a tasteless oil. Then the molds are stored in the freezer until ready to fill and set in the oven to bake.

Edited March 1, 2003 by hedgehog (log)

[Louisa Chu]

nightscotsman I haven't forgotten about your question. In fact it's haunting me! I have not had a chance to ask the other pastry chefs at school yet but will try again next week. The one whom I think would know is prepping for the MOF competition in 2 weeks and I have not been able to catch a free minute with him yet. I'm going to try to go over to Poujauran next week and ask. They don't make them in my local patisserie. And then there's Dorie Tuesday. There's got to be an answer!

[nightscotsman]

Thanks, lou - I appreciate it. I made another batch today using Nancy Silverton's recipe, and this time used beeswax mixed with butter and oil to line the molds. These are much closer to what I'm looking for. They didn't rise up out of the molds and the outside is a beautiful deep brown all over as it should be. Nancy's recipe uses mostly egg yolks rather than whole eggs, so I think that may have been the major difference. Also they are baked at a 375 instead of 400. The only think I wasn't quite happy with was the crust, which is quite thick and hard rather than crisp/chewy like the ones I had in France. I wonder if I baked them at the higher temperature for a shorted time I would get a nicer crust?

[hedgehog]

I wonder if the thickness of your canele de Bordeaux was caused by using too small a mold. The copper, tin-lined molds come in three sizes . I am sure Nancy Silverton's recipe calls for the 3 oz.capacity which is the traditional size. (I think she wrote she learned it from a Paris based Bordeaux baker). Her oven temperatures would correlate with that size mold.

I like them a little crunchy. But in Bordeaux Baillardain sells them "very cooked" which is pure black in color and very crunchy. You can buy them " medium cooked" which is mahogony in color and crisp, and "golden brown" which is as stated in color and chewy.

I love caneles one hour out of the oven. Unfortunately, within five or six hours they begin to turn spongy. I know that bakers have tricks to revive them.

Edited March 2, 2003 by hedgehog (log)

[mamster]

I ate some of nightscotsman's canneles--in fact, I just had one for breakfast--and they're amazing. I've never had one before, and they're unlike any other food. Thanks everyone for teaching him how to make them.

Chocolate and rum next?

[nightscotsman]

I wonder if the thickness of your canele de Bordeaux was  caused by using too small a mold. The copper, tin-lined molds come in three sizes . I am sure Nancy Silverton's  recipe calls for the  3 oz.capacity which is the traditional size. (I think she wrote she learned it from a Paris based Bordeaux baker). Her oven temperatures would correlate with that size mold.

I like them a little crunchy.  But  in Bordeaux  Baillardain sells them "very cooked" which is pure black in color and very crunchy. You can buy them " medium cooked" which is mahogony in color and crisp, and "golden brown" which is as stated in color and chewy.

I love caneles  one hour out of the oven. Unfortunately, within five or six hours they begin to turn spongy. I know that bakers have tricks to revive them.

I just checked my molds and they appear to be 3 oz (2 x 2 inches, right?). I would call the last batch of canele "mahogany" with a very crunchy crust. Even the next day, stored in a covered container they are still fairly crisp. If I wanted a little less crunch in the crust, but still cooked through, would I bake them at a higher or lower temperature? I'm not completely unhappy with this attempt - just fine tuning. Thanks to everyone for their help and encouragement!

Glad you liked them, mamster. Now that I think I've solved my major problems, I will have to try Bau's chocolate version - thanks for reminding me.

[hedgehog]

If you are using a 3 ounce (1/3 cup approx) capacity mold you don't change the temperature you change the baking time.

In other words,remove and rap one out about 10 minutes before total baking time. If its mahogany, let it turned out crisp on a rack until cool.

I think the best caneles are made in a convection oven. If you have one try baking the caneles at 375°F for 1 hour and 15 minutes for a deep, dark brown shade. In a regular 400 degree oven it will take longer.

Another trick I have learned is to place the chilled filled molds 1 1/2" apart on the baking sheet so they bake evenly.

By the way, I've noticed that caneles that rise out of their molds do drop back down if left to bake long enough. The recipe I use take about 1 3/4 hours to bake properly.. The insides are completely custardy while the exteriors are crackling black.

re: your rum and chocolate which sounds fantastic: Canelés de Bordeaux is the "politically correct" name for the bordeaux recipe. Additions or alterations to the recipe will run afoul of the "canelés gendarmes," transforming the baked product into cannelés Bordelais.

Edited March 3, 2003 by hedgehog (log)

[kitwilliams]

I spoke to the Honey Man at the Berkeley Farmer's Market last Saturday so now know how to process the beeswax hanging on the side of my house. Question is, what are the proportions of beeswax to butter to oil needed to produce the perfect coating for the canneles molds?

Also...have any of you canneles experts baked them in both copper and silicon molds and, if so, is it possible for the silicon molds to produce the same crust as the copper?

Thanks.

[hedgehog]

I melt 1 ounce of bee's wax in an old glass or porcelain cup in the microwave (but you can do it over simmering water); add 2 tablespoons warm melted butter and stir in enough safflower oil to make it thick enough to coat the back of a spoon...about 1 1/3 cups. You might need more.

Beware: bee's wax is highly flammable.

When you're ready to use the white oil, simply reheat it in the cup and brush or pour a little into each mold; swirl the mold and turn upside down on a rack set over a pan with sides to remove excess. You don't want too much oil in the mold. THINK SHEER. In fact, you could put the molds still on the rack set over the pan into a warm oven in order to remove excess oil. (This is important because you don't want to much oil puddling in the curves which create what is known in Bordeaux as "white asses" in other words, puddling deters the tops from browning properly.)

I always pour any excess oil back into the cup to use at another time.

For those who don't have access to beeswax, you can try jerry price at J&N Sales

(765/459-4589;www.jerryprice@myself.com.)

You ask about the rubberized molds. Personally, I didn't like the glassine exterior.

You could make a make belief squat canele using nordic ware's mini bundt molds ...you don't need the bee's wax and you can bake them in half the time. They don't look like caneles but they sure taste similar.

One more thing, you didn't ask but I thought you might want to know that you should heat the milk to 183 F before adding it to the flour, butter and sugar mixture. Strain, chill and go for it.

[Louisa Chu]

nightscotsman I'm so relieved that the problem seems to be solved. There's nothing more vexing than this kind of thing. And your cannele travails now have me on that inevitable path back to Poujauran - ooh I just hate them. And hedgehog may I ask about your intensive familiarity with the canneles? They're an old-fashioned little cake not found much even in Paris. Thanks.

[kitwilliams]

(This is important because you don't want to much oil puddling in the curves which create what is known in Bordeaux as "white asses" in other words, puddling deters the tops from browning properly.)

Nightscotsman: it looks as if the French actually have a name for the trouble you've had with your canneles! "White Asses!" But all it takes is a little beeswax and butter to cure it -- perhaps that is the same mixture as in Bain de Soleil!

[nightscotsman]

(This is important because you don't want to much oil puddling in the curves which create what is known in Bordeaux as "white asses" in other words, puddling deters the tops from browning properly.)

Nightscotsman: it looks as if the French actually have a name for the trouble you've had with your canneles! "White Asses!" But all it takes is a little beeswax and butter to cure it -- perhaps that is the same mixture as in Bain de Soleil!

Great, now all I have to do is spread some of that stuff on my ass and lay on the beach at Cannes. Of course, good pastry is worth it.

And loufood - Gerard Mulot in the 6th has good canneles, if happen to be in that area.

[hedgehog]

loufood:

Caneles have recently gained cachet after years of neglect. They are Bordelais in origin. Many recipes don't carry a tale; the canelé carries many. One of the

oldest refers to a convent in Bordeaux, where, before the French Revolution, the nuns prepared cakes called canalize (or something like that...not sure) made with donated egg yolks from local winemakers, who used only the whites to clarify their wines. ( Hence the almost exclusive use of egg yolks !)

The popularity of canelés has risen and fallen numerous time over the years. Twenty five years ago, when I first started spending a lot of time in Bordeaux, I never heard of these little cakes. No local guide or notable cookbook published since the start of the 20th century even mentioned them. Later, I heard that a few Bordeaux bakers were working to revive their local specialty.

It didn't take long for these darling cakes to begin cropping up in all sizes and flavorings throughout France.

Edited March 4, 2003 by hedgehog (log)

[Louisa Chu]

hedgehog, what I meant was what's your obsession with them? I'm quite fond of them as well. Gerard Mulot! Another place where the service drives me insane - thanks for the tip.

[hedgehog]

LOU: "The fox," you see,"knows many things," wrote the ancient Greek writer Archilochus, "but the hedgehog knows one big thing." For all the fox's cunning, he is defeated by the hedgehog's one great defense---rolling himself up in a ball to protect himself on all sides with his coat of prickly quills. " Isaih Berlin