Home Builder

[jscarbor]

I build small semi luxury townhomes near downtown Houston. I have a little plan that has a small room behind the kitchen. As an upgrade I was thinking about putting in either a wet bar area or a built in coffee bar area. Does anyone have any ideas for an area like this? Should the coffee maker be one of those built ins? Should I just include a good coffee machine? Thoughts...

[phaelon56]

Thoughts? Yes - plenty. First is that the few espresso or coffee machines available which are designed to be built-in are inherently a compromise. There's a big upcharge for that feature yet for less money you can get machines just as good. And for the same money you can get machines that are far better.

How high end are you talking? If I had a customer or potential customers who would be interested in the best possible quality of drinks but with a simple mechanical installation and a short learning curve for using the gear here's what I'd sell them:

1) La Marzocco Swift grinder - auto grinds and auto-tamps and has two bean hoppers - one for decaf and one for regular beans (or two varieties of regular beans - one targeted at straight espresso and the other at milk based drinks)

2) La Marzocco GS3 espresso machine (available at some point in 2006 but not sure exactly when). It's compact, runs on 110V and allows you to either plumb in both the water supply and the drain tray or have both of them manually filled and drained.

3) You should have a 15 amp circuit for the grinder, another one for the espresso machine and a third for peripheral equipment and lighting.

4) Make sure the "plumbed in" option is available to choose from (it's so much easier). Under the counter be sure to include a cold water supply that branches off from the sink supply line and have it feed a built in cartridge style water filtration system (unless you already have a very good quality whole-house filtration system). Also include a drain with open end that the drain tray hose can empty into. This can Y into the drain running off the sink.

5) Yes - the sink. A small relatively deep sink is crucial. You'll need a place to scrub portafilter assemblies, rinse milk steaming pitchers, rinse and wring wiping cloths etc.

6) Very small refrigerator for milk - dorm size cube refrigerator under the counter should be sufficient (if it will fit). If this will see intermittent use I'd opt instead to have a small square stainless steel well in the counter with a drain. Fill it half full of ice and keep the milk in there when you'll have guests and will be using the coffee bar.

7) Knock box for grounds built into the counter or built into a drawer just under the counter.

I'm sure I'll think of more later. But don't make assumptions about work flow when determining where things go.

Also - an easy option is a superauto machine - there are some Franke and Schaerer machines (and even a high end Jura) in the $5,000 to $6,000 range. Some even have an auto sensor that supposedly simplifies milk steaming. But the compromises are many - you will never ever get stellar quality drinks from a superauto. Good perhaps but not good enough for anyone who's really serious about great quality in coffee and espresso.

Also - if auto grinding and tamping was not crucial and you could live with having a separate pump/motor assembly under the counter it would be worth considering the Mazzer Mini-E for a grinder (you'd need two) and the Synesso Cyncra 1 group 110V machine.

[phaelon56]

Further thought. If you opt for a pour-over style machine (ie.. not plumbed in) or get one that simply offers that as an option... and if one presumes that the potential client may have a strong enough interest in learning hwo to make good espresso... you could just do a flexible design that might lend itself to both a wet bar and/or an espresso and coffee bar.

For those willing to learn the basics of grinding, tamping etc there are some very good "E61 style" machines in the $1,000 to $2,000 price range and some excellent grinders available for $275 to $600.

But I strongly recommend against including the espresso gear as part of the purchase price. Sell someone a wet bar that includes a fancy bar blender for making frozen drinks and they won't cal you to find out the bets way top make a frozen margarita. But include some expensive (or moderately priced) espresso gear and you're sure to get calls from people wanting to better understand how to use the equipment.

Best bet IMHO is to set up a space that is flexibel with all the water supply connections, drains and water filtration that they'll need for coffee or a wet bar and let them decide.

[jscarbor]

Great ideas, even if I don't know half of what you are talking about. But what I have decided to do is make the space flexible like have a bar sink, electrical outlets, a flex space for wine chiller storage or a small refrigerator.

These houses are smallish for houston with emphasis on interior amenities close to downtown. We sell them for $200-250K. We sell mainly to young males and I think the bar option will be a bigger draw but coffe bar would be nice for the non drinker.

[jsolomon]

jscarbor, I don't know how much you plan on taking all of phaelon56's suggestions to heart, but aside from everything else, his suggestion to have multiple circuits (not just outlets) is certainly the most helpful.

Believe me. I am suffering through a post-war house that has 6 total circuits in it. Washer/dryer takes up 1. Furnace takes up 1. Water heater takes up 1. Stove takes up 1.

So, I have 2 functional circuits in my house. Not satisfactory. You have the power to change this to your customers' delight.

[phaelon56]

We sell mainly to young males and I think the bar option will be a bigger draw but coffee bar would be nice for the non drinker.

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Some of them might even "evolve" from alcohol drinkers into espresso drinkers _ I did (but evolve is hardly the right word to use in my case).

Yes - multiple circuits. I'd give two 20 amp circuits to that little room. The previous owner of my house upgraded the entire electrical system from incoming service right to the outlets and got 100 amp instead of 150 or 200. What was he thinking? Now I don't have enough juice left to run a 50 amp circuit to my kitchen and put a commercial 4 group espresso machine there. And that's a shame.

[fifi]

Great ideas, even if I don't know half of what you are talking about. But what I have decided to do is make the space flexible like have a bar sink, electrical outlets, a flex space for wine chiller storage or a small refrigerator.

These houses are smallish for houston with emphasis on interior amenities close to downtown. We sell them for $200-250K. We sell mainly to young males and I think the bar option will be a bigger draw but coffe bar would be nice for the non drinker.

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Thanks for this topic. I am not a coffee freak but you have given me some good ideas since my kitchen will have a "beverage area." Just so folks in other parts will know, $250,000 buys a lot more in Houston than in most places.

[jsolomon]

This will be familiar territory to you, fifi.

Think of a kitchen as the laboratory when designing it. Too much utilities (power, water, sewer, HVAC) is almost enough.

You can never supply too many amps, gallons, cfm's (I originally had cfu's... I wonder what I was thinking!), or garbage suck.

Edit to add: and storage. Too many square feet are almost enough, too.

Edited December 20, 2005 by jsolomon (log)

[Moopheus]

I build small semi luxury townhomes near downtown Houston. ...Should I just include a good caffe machine? Thoughts...

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Maybe I am getting cynical from watching too many home makeover shows, but it seems a lot of those sorts of things are intended for people with more money than sense, or to put it another way, they care about having luxury items more than they care about having good coffee. In which case I suppose you should stick them with whatever the market will bear. A buyer who is really knowledgeable about coffee (admittedly a small number) is going to see that as not a good value. At the other end of line I suppose, is the buyer who is just not interested in spending money on coffee equipment. Which is basically a long way of saying that I basically agree with Owen that a flexible space that allows people to put in what they want for a "beverage center" is probably best.

[Mayhaw Man]

We sell mainly to young males and I think the bar option will be a bigger draw but coffee bar would be nice for the non drinker.

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Some of them might even "evolve" from alcohol drinkers into espresso drinkers _ I did (but evolve is hardly the right word to use in my case).

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I would argue that evolution is the perfect word for that process. But, of course, I argue about all kinds of stuff that, in the end, really doesn't matter. It's all about the end result.