Discovering San Francisco

[Carolyn Tillie]

Perspective is beginning to have new meaning for me in this city; I look at maps and think, "heck, it is only 6 blocks - I can walk that!" Six blocks is easy and turns into eight, then ten, and twelve. It was last Friday afternoon when a much-needed trip to Staples, the bank, and the cel-phone store necessitated an outing a bit further beyond my usual parameters, in an area known as the Polk Gulch of Nob Hill.

Hungry from the trek, Kevin and I stopped in to Casablanca Cafe [1609 Polk @ Sacramento]. From the outside, when one glances in, there is initially only a view of a large wooden bar structure. Once inside, there is a charming array of hookahs set on tables within two cozy pillow-lined bench areas. While enjoying the World Cup, Kevin ordered a Gyro and I, a sampler appetizer platter.

His Gyro was quite good -- not the standard hyper-ground conglomeration of dry meat, but nicely seared chunks of lamb in a thinner than-expected pita (almost tortilla-like). My sampler platter included tabouli which was made from curly parsley instead of flat, making it somewhat strident and bitter. There was also dolmas, falafel, baba ghanoush, hummus, pita, cacek, and a Greek salad, topped with fresh avocado. I liked the flavor of the falafel, but wish they had a more crunchy exterior. The baba ghanoush was exceptional as was the cacek. The hummus, however, was extremely odd. For some reason that I could not determine, it had a smoked flavor which gave it the sensation of tobacco.

The menu was quite extensive including crepes, breakfast served until 2:00, and a myriad of sandwiches. My sampler platter was an affordable $9.95 and was more food than I could eat. The gyro was $8.95 and was more than Kevin could eat. The afternoon was a delight and wish such a cafe were closer to me (even though I'm not a tremendous hookah fan).

[alanamoana]

...ummm...when i lived there, we called it the tendernob...i know, a little graphic, but more fun than polk gulch!

[dvs]

...ummm...when i lived there, we called it the tendernob...i know, a little graphic, but more fun than polk gulch!

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it's also called the "knoberloin"

[Carolyn Tillie]

One never knows when a gem will be discovered. Happenstance brought me to Hayes Valley for an early morning DMV time-suck. A beautiful morning it was and having given the gods their due with standing in line for far too long, a stroll home via Divisadero a gnawing hunger for breakfast grew. Within a block or two of my jaunt, the Bean Bag Cafe [601 Divisadero @ Hayes] presented itself as a viable solution and produced a far more satisfying adventure.

A full array of sweet and savory crepes, omelets, scrambles, and smoothies was on the menu as I opted for The Vienna, a crepe filled with mushrooms, spinach, sun-dried tomato pesto, roasted garlic, almonds, and provolone cheese. Served with a side of roasted potato, one bite convinced me to get the entire amount packaged up so I could take it home and share it; the bloody thing was that good!

Walking home, I advised Kevin I had some breakfast to share and he was pretty apathetic -- until I got home and he tasted this crepe. This is one bad-ass mother of a crepe and for $6.95, a great deal. Not quite in our neighborhood for daily dining (sadly so), but worth an occasional walk up the hill, most definitely.

[IrishCream]

A full array of sweet and savory crepes, omelets, scrambles, and smoothies was on the menu as I opted for The Vienna, a crepe filled with mushrooms, spinach, sun-dried tomato pesto, roasted garlic, almonds, and provolone cheese. Served with a side of roasted potato, one bite convinced me to get the entire amount packaged up so I could take it home and share it; the bloody thing was that good!

Oh my gosh! That sounds like my ideal food. I want it right now! I lived on mushroom/avocado/swiss crepes when I was in college.

Thanks for sharing your adventures.

[IrishCream]

The hummus, however, was extremely odd. For some reason that I could not determine, it had a smoked flavor which gave it the sensation of tobacco.

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Maybe they used roasted tahini which can add a smoky flavor? Crepes AND decent Middle Eastern food? I am getting quite jealous. Need a roomie?

[Carolyn Tillie]

The hummus, however, was extremely odd. For some reason that I could not determine, it had a smoked flavor which gave it the sensation of tobacco.

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Maybe they used roasted tahini which can add a smoky flavor? Crepes AND decent Middle Eastern food? I am getting quite jealous. Need a roomie?

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It was weirder than that -- I've used roasted tahini myself and this was far smokier. I'm wondering if the chickpeas were near a hookah or something!

[NapaRover]

wow. this has been a fascinating read. Carylyn, I did just the opposite...after a decade and half in SF, im now in napa (as of a few months anyway)...yeah, I dyingly miss good ethnic....in throughly enjoying revisiting SF places through anothers persons POV. On the subject of noodles, I actually love Iroha - sister restaurant to Mifume...I think better food..or just different anyway. Its outside the mall...upstairs near the Dennys in that outside courtyard. Their shoyu ramen is reallly great....the gyoza though taste and look like trader joes...but its fun, filling, good broth and cheap!. Keep up the postings (and point me to any ANY good chinese and thai in Napa!).

[Carolyn Tillie]

Another celebration dinner and a desperate need for foie gras brought us to one of the few restaurants in walking distance that could satisfy my liver craving... Bushi-Tei is a restaurant in the heart of Japantown that I had walked by often enough with a sense of intrigue. From the front window, one sees only two four-tops and then a giant, family-style banquet table already elegantly set for 14. A combination of dark wood, natural rock, and abstract textiles provide a sense of austere luxury. Besides the large table, there is a smaller alcove which seats six and a semi-private area that can be separated or joined for parties from two to 10.

Seated upstairs, behind an etched glass barrier, a sweeping view of the restaurant as well as passers-by on the street is afforded. It is worth noting that from that angle, I could see that the banquet table (probably 14 feet in length), was constructed from a several planks of a single tree.

Not being terribly hungry but still wanting to try a number of dishes, we opted for a handful of appetizers. The obligatory foie gras was seared and served with pumpkin pot de crème, pistachio, and a red onion marmalade. I'm not exactly sure where they got pumpkin this time of year, but it was creamy, satisfying, and intense. We countered this with miso-marinated Kobe beef served with peppercress, camembert, sesame brioche, and lemon-pepper oil. While an appetizer course, either of us would have been happy with an entrée-sized portion of this, surprised that the camembert worked so well with the miso flavors.

Wanting a tad more, the waiter suggested the lobster appetizer but sandwiched between our adventures of having Too Much Seafood and heading to Belize for lobster season next week, we were steering away from anything oceanic. We opted for sharing a starter of confit of quail with jamon Serrano, quail egg, almond and aged balsamic vinegar and an entrée course of pan-roasted Sonoma duck breast with spinach, mascarpone-mustard and dried chutney. The quail was served in a mini Staub cocotte which adds to the "cute factor" and keeps the flavors meshed together. Of the two, the quail was the preferred dish as the duck breast had a large vein of grizzle running through it, although the accompaniment was decent enough.

For a change, I was not allowed to peruse the wine list but we shared a nice Burgundy that suffered only by being too young. Of interesting note, one has to wonder about a restaurant that has installed $500 toilet seats with controls mounted in the wall. (They are astonishing, I must admit). The waitstaff were beyond attentive and accomodating and we are pleased to have stumbled upon an upscale restaurant where we can both conduct high-end business meetings and have celebratorial meals -- all within a 2-minute walk.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Back in the saddle of San Francisco dining after several weeks in Central America. While we made some better-than-average sushi with freshly caught Red Snapper in Belize, the first thing I wanted when I got home was Japanese food... After unpacking and settling, we promptly walked over to Japantown for a quick nosh at Sanppo [1702 Post Street]. On the upside, they use HUGE hunks of fish for their rolls. On the downside, their fish is not very fresh and their gyoza too gummy. But with a bento box full of other pickled treats and a bowl of miso, it still tasted good -- I just won't bother going back there...

A day after our return was a BDay celebration for someone special and the gift I gave was a helicopter flight over San Francisco (highly recommend). We took off from SFO but landed in Sausalito. While the tour company offers to drive you back into the city, we opted to stay there for lunch and ferry back. Feeling uninspired to wander the streets of Sausalito reading menus, we went in the first place we saw, The Spinnaker. It is on a pier, jutting out into the ocean with very impressive views of Alcatraz and the city. On a Thursday afternoon, it was filled with mostly septegenarians and we did feel a tad young. The service, setting, and menu is relatively standard for "upscale seafood" without being daring or cutting edge. We started with half-a-dozen oysters which were oddly served with horseradish, ketchup, and soy sauce (I'm sure they thought it was a mignonette sauce!). Kevin ordered an angel hair pasta with shrimp, scallops, sun dried tomatoes, and a decent cream sauce. I had their special of the day, fresh halibut with four different types of fresh wild mushrooms served with a side of steamed vegetables and orzo. Everything tasted good but was hardly inspired. It simply seemed as though the restaurant, the service, and the clientele has not changed in 20 or 30 years -- a throwback to 1978 in the classically elegant form.

Lastly, several consecutive nights have been spent playing pool at my favorite Irish pub, the Abbey, on 5th Avenue and Geary. But last evening upon exiting, the smell of roasted meat was in the air and I insisted on investigating. This is a neighborhood for Korean BBQ and just two doors down from The Abbey, I line stood out the door for Brother's Restaurant [4128 Geary]. I've had a handful of Korean barbecues in my neighborhood, but never have I experienced the full-on spectacle where fresh racks of smoldering charcoal is placed in the hole in the center of the table. In a restaurant that seats about 50 people, we were the only ones who were not Korean which attests to its authenticity. I ran the gambit from the menu and ordered ribs and tripe for the charcoal, a rice dish, and an oxtail soup. Before the dishes themselves arrived, FOURTEEN (yep, I counted them!) individual side dishes were scattered around our table; kimchees, nori, bean sprouts, lettuce, various pickles, sauces, and more. While the BBQ'd ribs and tripe were fun enough, it was the rice dish that most intrigued me and I'm sorry I didn't write down the Korean name for it -- served with a raw egg, the waitress poured a red sauce into the rice and vegetable combination and stirred it together with the egg. The oxtail soup was the least impressive but only because the rest of the food was so flavorful and spicy; the oxtail meat itself was incredibly tender, but the broth quite limpid. Having eyes considerably bigger than our stomachs, the waitstaff added insult to injury by providing an additional course we hadn't ordered -- micro-thin noodles tossed with a sauce and vegetables. I think they thought we were funny to have ordered so much food and saw how much we were enjoying ourselves. In all, we brought home more than six pounds of leftovers and had a great time. Must go back with LOTS of other people!

It is good to be home...

[hzrt8w]

A day after our return was a BDay celebration for someone special and the gift I gave was a helicopter flight over San Francisco (highly recommend). We took off from SFO but landed in Sausalito. While the tour company offers to drive you back into the city, we opted to stay there for lunch and ferry back. Feeling uninspired to wander the streets of Sausalito reading menus, we went in the first place we saw, The Spinnaker.

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Did they fly underneath the Golden Bridge?

The Spinnaker has been my favorite too. Food is good and the view of San Francisco skyline is gorgeous!

[Carolyn Tillie]

A day after our return was a BDay celebration for someone special and the gift I gave was a helicopter flight over San Francisco (highly recommend). We took off from SFO but landed in Sausalito. While the tour company offers to drive you back into the city, we opted to stay there for lunch and ferry back. Feeling uninspired to wander the streets of Sausalito reading menus, we went in the first place we saw, The Spinnaker.

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Did they fly underneath the Golden Bridge?

The Spinnaker has been my favorite too. Food is good and the view of San Francisco skyline is gorgeous!

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Actually, yes! It was very cool that we approached the bridge near the top span and then suddenly dropped down below and under the bridge, swooping back around above at 180 mph. A serious rush that made for a great BDay present!

[Carolyn Tillie]

Kevin and I did an H.G. Wells last night, unexpectedly and in a most bizarre fashion.

We spend an awful lot of time shooting pool at The Abbey Tavern on the corner of 5th Avenue and Geary. I love it because they are capable of pouring my favorite pub drink, a Poor Man's Black Velvet (half cider and half stout) except that they not only have hard apple cider on tap but Wyder's Pear Cider which, when poured with Guinness, makes a great Black Velvet. Kevin loves this place because the pool table is in a remote section of the pub that allows smoking. They also play great music.

When we left the pub last night, we crossed the street to catch the 38L back towards Japantown. The smell of something compelled hunger pangs to look around and enticed us to La Bergerie French restaurant [4221 Geary Blvd., 415-387-3573] and took us back to 1976 in both ambience and cuisine.

The decor is almost surreal; painted leather shields adorn the walls amidst low ceilings and heavy, dark pillars, pink tablecloths with candlelight and roses adorn the tables. Ceramic cherubs look down upon diners from unassuming locales and a very amateurish painting of Provence shows age from water drips from the ceiling and cracked paint. Too much of the upholstered banquets have been taped from wear. Again, all circa 1976.

Then came the food... We started with escargot which was served appropriately in the shells with clamps and the even-rarer long, two-pronged fork. With the restaurant's warm, crusty bread, we made short order of the snails. Then came a split pea cream soup. Not overly thick the way so many pea soups are, this was creamy, smooth, and elegant with an undercurrent of fresh sage. To our surprise, a salad came next; fresh butter lettuce with a perfectly light, creamy dressing. I can't remember the last time a restaurant served a soup AND salad course along with an entree that cost less than $20!

The entrees? Kevin ordered Duck a l'Orange and I, a roasted rabbit. Accompanying sides were fresh haricot verts (a tad overcooked), a sweet potato puree (excellent!), and a savory rice with the duck and a potato gratin with the rabbit. Being too full to stay for the complimentary ice cream, we opted to take home a creme caramel that I still enjoying, bite by bite. In tasting the food, it TASTED the way I remember "fancy" French food tasting in the 1970s. Eating the left-overs today, Kevin suggested that MSG (remember, Accent?) is being used which may give it its 70s flavor. It was wholesome, hearty, and savory. It was not cutting edge. It was not haute cuisine. It was surreal and enjoyable.

As it happens, the restaurant has been open for over 40 years. Ten years ago, two Cambodian brothers purchased it (which may explain why, in a room of a dozen people, we were the only non-Asians). There were only Asian people in the kitchen and on the service floor. Yes, the room and building itself is showing its age. But the service was impeccable and the entire experience memorable. So, two entrees in the $20 range, an hors d'oeuvre, the most expensive bottle of wine on their list (a du Pape for $42), a dessert and tip put us back a little more than $100. Pretty cool in my book. I like retro-eating and look forward to similar dining experiences, when I can find them!

[melkor]

As it happens, the restaurant has been open for over 40 years. Ten years ago, two Cambodian brothers purchased it (which may explain why, in a room of a dozen people, we were the only non-Asians). There were only Asian people in the kitchen and on the service floor. Yes, the room and building itself is showing its age. But the service was impeccable and the entire experience memorable. So, two entrees in the $20 range, an hors d'oeuvre, the most expensive bottle of wine on their list (a du Pape for $42), a dessert and tip put us back a little more than $100. Pretty cool in my book. I like retro-eating and look forward to similar dining experiences, when I can find them!

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Of the places you've mentioned so far in this topic - are any worth a return visit? Any worth going out of the way for?

Just out of curiosity, is 'du Pape' an as-yet unknown slang term for Chateauneuf du Pape?

[Carolyn Tillie]

Of the places you've mentioned so far in this topic - are any worth a return visit?  Any worth going out of the way for?

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With over 4,500 restaurants in the city, I am hard-pressed to want to go anyplace a second time. However, Bix, Piperade, Bushei-Tei, and Kiss are all restaurants I have returned to because of their quality. These are definitely worth both the return visits as well as going out of the way for...

For convenience or relationships with staff and/or chefs, I have gone back to Osakaya, Fillmore Grill, Harry's, and (before it closed) Winterland.

Much of the rationale on the thread is simply discovering restaurants which are seemingly flying under the radar which are more than worthy of attention.

[melkor]

Of the places you've mentioned so far in this topic - are any worth a return visit?  Any worth going out of the way for?

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With over 4,500 restaurants in the city, I am hard-pressed to want to go anyplace a second time. However, Bix, Piperade, Bushei-Tei, and Kiss are all restaurants I have returned to because of their quality. These are definitely worth both the return visits as well as going out of the way for...

For convenience or relationships with staff and/or chefs, I have gone back to Osakaya, Fillmore Grill, Harry's, and (before it closed) Winterland.

Much of the rationale on the thread is simply discovering restaurants which are seemingly flying under the radar which are more than worthy of attention.

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I understand the rationale - I was more curious about what places you've discovered that as you say are more than worthy of attention. There are lots of positive comments on eGullet and other food sites about Piperade and Kiss, Bix gets more mixed reviews and I've heard very little about Bushi-Tei though it seems to appeal to the Yelp demographic.

It seems from a quick glance back through this topic that you find most of the places you end up to be disappointing - do you have a theory on why so many of your restaurant meals fall short of your expectations? There isn't any shortage of great places to eat in this city, at many price points (especially the low and mid range).

[Carolyn Tillie]

I understand the rationale - I was more curious about what places you've discovered that as you say are more than worthy of attention.  There are lots of positive comments on eGullet and other food sites about Piperade and Kiss, Bix gets more mixed reviews and I've heard very little about Bushi-Tei though it seems to appeal to the Yelp demographic. 

It seems from a quick glance back through this topic that you find most of the places you end up to be disappointing - do you have a theory on why so many of your restaurant meals fall short of your expectations?  There isn't any shortage of great places to eat in this city, at many price points (especially the low and mid range).

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I think I got quite spoiled eating (and reviewing) in wine country where most restaurants at least strive towards the ethereal (note: STRIVE). It is as though people expect more when they dine in wine country, possibly because of the tourist factor or the wine-pairing factor. In many cases, the restaurants I eat at here (the neighborhood joints) just suffice. Or, those that excel (Winterland) can't survive.

It would be easy to only go to the San Francisco restaurants with great reputations (Quince, Boulevard, Campton Place, Ritz, Danko), but constant consumption of that caliber of cuisine gets boring. There was a point when I was reviewing that if I saw another "Sonoma duck breast with [insert odd fruit of choice] served with a port-wine, balsamic glaze and [insert lentil/orzo/rice of choice]" I would roll my eyes at the absurdity of it all.

I suppose that is why I get completely charmed with restaurants like La Bergerie or Troya or Harry's Kobe burger which sells for less than $10. They were unexpectedly delightful; decent cuisine at a reasonable price. Part of me really wants to go back to La Bergerie, Casablanca Cafe, or Troya but knows (as you stated) there aren't any shortage of great places to eat at these lower price points. And that is when it gets hard; wanting to return to the tried-and-true, but wanting to find even more along those criteria of providing great food at a great price.

[melkor]

I think I got quite spoiled eating (and reviewing) in wine country where most restaurants at least strive towards the ethereal (note: STRIVE). It is as though people expect more when they dine in wine country, possibly because of the tourist factor or the wine-pairing factor. In many cases, the restaurants I eat at here (the neighborhood joints) just suffice. Or, those that excel (Winterland) can't survive.

I think it really is a mixed bag. In a lot of cases you're right - restaurants in wine country all seem to aim for that $50-$100/person price point that most wine country tourists are comfortable with. I wouldn't say that in general they aim higher, more that they all seem to aim for the same thing. SF restaurants cater to a much, much wider demographic. Saigon Sandwich, Baguette Express, etc wouldn't survive in Napa and they're thriving in SF selling delicious bahn mi for two bucks and change. There's basically no ethnic cuisine in Napa to speak of, aside from the taco trucks and the Mexican grocery store across the street from La Toque.

It would be easy to only go to the San Francisco restaurants with great reputations (Quince, Boulevard, Campton Place, Ritz, Danko), but constant consumption of that caliber of cuisine gets boring. There was a point when I was reviewing that if I saw another "Sonoma duck breast with [insert odd fruit of choice] served with a port-wine, balsamic glaze and [insert lentil/orzo/rice of choice]" I would roll my eyes at the absurdity of it all.

Sure, but no one would suggest eating exclusively at places like that.

I suppose that is why I get completely charmed with restaurants like La Bergerie or Troya or Harry's Kobe burger which sells for less than $10. They were unexpectedly delightful; decent cuisine at a reasonable price. Part of me really wants to go back to La Bergerie, Casablanca Cafe, or Troya but knows (as you stated) there aren't any shortage of great places to eat at these lower price points. And that is when it gets hard; wanting to return to the tried-and-true, but wanting to find even more along those criteria of providing great food at a great price.

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So of the places you've been in the past year you'd recommend La Bergerie, Casablanca Cafe, Harry's, and Troya? How does Harry's burger compare with the other burgers around the city? The General's Daughter up in Sonoma has still got the best restaurant burger I've had.

The real strength in SF at the lower price points are the incredible variety of Asian restaurants. Since you live in Japantown you obviously visit a fairly broad selection of Japanese restaurants. Have you checked out the Thai/Vietnamese/Korean/Chinese options around the city?

Here are a few places I think are worth investigating; while some get more recognition than others, none will set you back more than $20 a person.

In the Sunset:

Old Mandarin Islamic for authentic Chinese Muslim cooking (order the Islamic dishes, not the generic Chinese food)

King of Thai Noodles

Shin Toe Bul Yi for Korean fried chicken - they have lots of other dishes but the fried chicken rocks and it comes with tofu soup

In the Tenderloin:

Baguette Express or Saigon Sandwich for bahn mi (lunch time only)

Pagolac for 7 courses of beef (though we usually just order the raw beef salad, grilled beef, and beef with wild pepper leaf)

Bodega Bistro for shaking beef, green papaya salad, and nems

Shalimar for Pakistani - the tandoori chicken is the best in the city

Thai House Express

[Carolyn Tillie]

I appreciate the list! Shalimar has been on the list for some time with a business client who has wanted to dine there and I've been waiting until I had at least six people to go to Old Mandarin Islamic (although I might break down to see how their duck tongues compare to those I've tried in SoCal). I definitely need to spend more time in Chinatown and investigating the various gastronomic joys there.

I haven't done as much exploration into the Korean/Vietnamese/Thai for mostly whimpy reasons -- I am one of those to whom cilantro tastes like soap so even the much-loved Banh Mi sandwiches hold little joy for me. I am getting better at just suffering through it, especially with my recent Central American trip and the fact that I shall be spending considerably more time there; it is less instrusive when finely chopped as in the ceviches I ate vs. the huge sprigs of fresh cilantro so predominantly used in those southeast Asian cuisines. It just gets tiring having to continually ask to have it omitted.

I did wander through the tenderloin on the way to the Wednesday market last week and noticed a number of other establishments worthy of investigation, mostly notably the Original Joe's. I have always been intrigued with ANY restaurant that has been around in any city for more than 50 years, regardless of the cuisine offered.

[hzrt8w]

[...]

I definitely need to spend more time in Chinatown and investigating the various gastronomic joys there.

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Forget about SF Chinatown. The latest gastronomic activities that worth any salt (or any MSG) all radiated away from the good old Grant Ave. Unless you want to visit some over-the-hill restaurants or do some touristy thing.

New places within the city:

- Along Geary (from 6th on to 25th or so?)

- Along Clement (from 6th to 12th or so?)

- Sunset district - along Noriega, from 19th on to 34th

- Skyline: anchored around 99 Ranch market (Daly City or Pacifica?)

The bests are along El Camino Real at Milbrae:

(Zen Peninsula, Fook Yuen are the bests on my book)

And of course there is Coy Palace in Daly City.

My other favorites include Hong Kong East Ocean in Emeryville and Saigon Seafood Harbor, Daimo and Asian Pearl village in Richmond.

And if you go as far south as San Jose/Milpitas, that's a whole different world...

Edited July 24, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[melkor]

I appreciate the list! Shalimar has been on the list for some time with a business client who has wanted to dine there and I've been waiting until I had at least six people to go to Old Mandarin Islamic (although I might break down to see how their duck tongues compare to those I've tried in SoCal). I definitely need to spend more time in Chinatown and investigating the various gastronomic joys there.

Four people is fine for Old Mandarin Islamic. Be sure to try the 'extremely hot pepper' and one of the hot pots. A few of the tofu dishes are seriously good also. At Shalimar the tandoori chicken, nihari, goat curry, seekh kabab, and chicken karahi are my favorites. Given the choice, I'd take a bigger group to Shalimar. Like Ah Leung said earlier - for good Chinese skip Chinatown and head out to the Richmond or the Sunset (or down the peninsula).

I haven't done as much exploration into the Korean/Vietnamese/Thai for mostly whimpy reasons -- I am one of those to whom cilantro tastes like soap so even the much-loved Banh Mi sandwiches hold little joy for me. I am getting better at just suffering through it, especially with my recent Central American trip and the fact that I shall be spending considerably more time there; it is less instrusive when finely chopped as in the ceviches I ate vs. the huge sprigs of fresh cilantro so predominantly used in those southeast Asian cuisines. It just gets tiring having to continually ask to have it omitted.

As far as Cilantro goes, it isn't used in all Vietnamese/Korean/Thai dishes. There are very few dishes with it at Pagolac or Bodega Bistro. It obviously wouldn't be in the fried chicken at Shin Toe Bul Yi. It does present a problem for bahn mi. Still, you should check out Baguette Express just for the sugarcane juice.

I did wander through the tenderloin on the way to the Wednesday market last week and noticed a number of other establishments worthy of investigation, mostly notably the Original Joe's. I have always been intrigued with ANY restaurant that has been around in any city for more than 50 years, regardless of the cuisine offered.

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The affinity for old restaurants is something I just don't get. There are lots of places all over the city serving horrible food that have been doing so for decades. The fact that they haven't gone out of business doesn't make me want to eat there. I'm not saying there aren't institutions that have been around forever and I'm certainly not saying that restaurants that have been in business for a long time can't be good - but in general I think restaurants tend to rest on their laurels after a while. Compare Trieste to Ritual for example, one has great coffee, a comfortable space, and people who care, the other has been there for 50 years and has horrible espresso.

[reid_butler]

Carolyn,

I am a new poster to the forums here, but enjoyed reading your entries in this thread about moving to SF. I grew up in Pacific Heights and now live in the Western Addition (sounds like about 6 blocks from where you are calling home now).

You talked in your posting about the Mediterranean place on Fillmore and Sutter. I have eaten there a few times, but really feel that La Mediterrannee (http://www.lamediterranee.net/) on Fillmore between Sacramento and Clay is the best for that type of food on this part of town.

Also, for simple solid Italian food in the area we are partial to Jackson Fillmore up the road on the corner of (you guessed it) Jackson St. and Fillmore. It can’t compete with a lot of other Italian places in town, but in our ‘hood I think it’s one of the best options.

[constanela]

Just discovering this forum after over a year of enjoying blogs and Dinner! Carolyn, have you been to Neecha Thai on the corner of Sutter and Steiner? It's in your neighborhood (mine too) and one of my favorite Thai places.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Just discovering this forum after over a year of enjoying blogs and Dinner!  Carolyn, have you been to Neecha Thai on the corner of Sutter and Steiner?  It's in your neighborhood (mine too) and one of my favorite Thai places.

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Coincidentally, we walked over there on Tuesday evening! Kevin makes larb at home and so I found Neecha's a bit wanting (the meat was rather dry and chewy, while the rest of the ingredients were quite nice and fresh).

I wish I knew the Thai names of the other two dishes we had but I enjoyed them immensely; a spicy red soup with mushrooms and shrimp, and a red curry dish with shrimp, tomatoes, and pineapple.

Shamefully, my exposure to Thai food in general has been very limited and I'm told there is an "even better Thai restaurant in the heart of Japantown" which I have to research. Upon leaving, I noticed a number of other courses on neighboring tables which beckoned a return visit!

[hzrt8w]

I wish I knew the Thai names of the other two dishes we had but I enjoyed them immensely; a spicy red soup with mushrooms and shrimp, and a red curry dish with shrimp, tomatoes, and pineapple.

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It sounds like the soup is the popular "Tom Yum Goong".

The red curry may be "Penang Curry" (red) Shrimp?

I like Mai's (Vietnamese Restaurant) on Clement at around 7th? Their Chicken and Rice in Earthern Pot is really good. Pho Tai and Vietnamese egg rolls are good. Quite close to where you are.