Going to Japan on a pauper's budget

[Druckenbrodt]

I know this sounds a bit silly - if you have no budget why go to Japan? To explain: I'm going on a work related trip, however it's my first time there so I've also booked two weeks off to explore and I really can't wait. Although am rather worried about the hole it's going to burn into my bank account. Basically it's a once in a lifetime opportunity, at the wrong moment, financially...

I reckon there must be some great food things to try out that are cheap, and thought this might be a fun challenge for you Japan experts. My boyfriend is also coming out and we plan to spend a lot of our time out there touring on our bikes, which we are also bringing! We'll be aiming to cover about 100 miles a day, which means we'll be needing lots of carbohydrates (rice, rice and more rice perhaps?) and looking for lots of road side stall/street food snacking opportunities Not sure exactly where we'll be travelling to yet but we'll start and end in Tokyo. There's a vague plan to zip up to Hokkaido and then cycle back down. We're not afraid of mountains either since we regularly do bike races in the Alps in France where we live. I bet there's some good hearty mountain food just waiting to be pounced on. I'm particularly interested in weird and wonderful things that you rarely come across in the West, or simple rustic 'peasant food.'

I'll have a few days on my own in Tokyo too - so also interested to hear any survival tips for a lone girl with zero language knowledge!!

Of course we're not just going to eat boiled rice - will definitely find the budget to push the boat out on occasion, before you get too concerned...

My B.F. is vegetarian so any thoughts along those lines would also be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

[sanrensho]

I think that food costs will be the least of your worries as long as you don't eat extravagantly all the time. There are many places where you can have a very filling and well-balanced meal, which is important when you're spending that much time on the bike. I would look for the neighbourhood/local teishoku (Japanese set meal) restaurant wherever you go, as well as specialty restaurants in each region. Lunch will also be reasonable and filling if you look for ramen/soba shops, etc.

The big problem will be the language if you try to eat where the locals eat. However, many restaurants will have a menu with photos, so I would learn how to ask for the menu to peruse before sitting down. (Menuu wo saki ni mite iidesuka? Can I see the menu first?) As a fellow biker, I'm aware of the need for keeping up on your carb intake, so you need to ask if there are free refills on the rice. (Gohan no okawari wa jiyuu desuka? Are there free refills for rice?)

Tokyo will be a piece of cake with zero language skills.

Hopefully, you will meet up with locals and possibly Japanese bikers that will invite you into their homes for a home-cooked meal. I would also explore the hot springs and public bath options wherever you go. I can't think of a finer way to rejuvenate sore legs than a leisurely soak in steam and hot water.

What kind of bikes will you be riding?

ADDING THIS LINK, just in case you don't have it:

http://www.japancycling.org/v2/

Edited October 7, 2005 by sanrensho (log)

[Druckenbrodt]

Arigato Sanrensho! And thank you for the handy language tips. And thank you also for the website tip off - very useful!

LOVE the idea of exploring hot springs - now that's my kind of touring holiday. We were in Taiwan last year (my boyfriend's work this time!) but somehow we always missed the hot springs and ended up cycling through the mountains in the middle of a typhoon. It was certainly... an experience.

Great to hear back from a fellow cyclist and food lover! I may be misguided here, but I feel like you can always trust a cyclist. And by the same token, you can never trust someone who doesn't enjoy food. Also I find the two things complement eachother perfectly; the more you cycle, the more you can eat!

We'll be on our beautiful steel custom built touring frames with fancy lugwork made by a small family company in Derbyshire in England called Mercian. They've been building frames for the last 50 years. Here's their website: www.merciancycles.com (check out the gallery section for a glimpse into the mad, obsessive world of Mercian obsessives, and yes, I admit, I'm a bike nerd.) I'd quite like to watch some keirin racing while we're in Tokyo. Do you have any tips??

So, back to food. I reckon the simple stuff could be really delicious, no? Refills for rice is a very handy thing to learn to ask for. Which is the word for rice in that sentence, out of curiosity? I love ramen and soba noodles... I love miso soup... I love pickles... I also love that thing when you grill a whole slice of aubergine (with a sweetish miso paste on top? I think?... I've only had it once.) No idea what it's called... I'm even beginning to like sweets with red bean paste although that is quite an acquired taste which I wasn't too interested in acquiring initially.

How can you tell, from looking at it, whether a place is serving up good, honest, tasty food? (Apart from that fact that it's full of locals!) And do the Japanese eat at a very specific time in the evenings? (I guess that depends on whether you're in the country or a city?)

I'd like to also visit the Tsukiji fish market while I'm in Tokyo - I've also heard that there are great 'hole in the wall' type stands cooking up maybe a big bowl of soup or noodles which sounds great.

Also: Is 'arigato' ok in most situations for thank you? And is there a good word/phrase for 'excuse me' in the sense of "I'm sorry I knocked over your bowl of soup" and also in the sense of "can I get past so that I can take a closer look at that amazing stew thing?".

Oh, I can't wait!!

[dornachu]

[

So, back to food. I reckon the simple stuff could be really delicious, no? Refills for rice is a very handy thing to learn to ask for. Which is the word for rice in that sentence, out of curiosity?

Gohan is rice.

How can you tell, from looking at it, whether a place is serving up good, honest, tasty food? (Apart from that fact that it's full of locals!)

I was in Tokyo last year, and i've yet go to a restaurant where there are alot of foreigneers, some of the Ramen places are very cheap, i ate at this yummy place in shinjuku. I also had a yakitori meal for quite cheap.

And do the Japanese eat at a very specific time in the evenings? (I guess that depends on whether you're in the country or a city?)

Not that i know of in Tokyo, however, it can get very busy so eitehr go early or late.

I'd like to also visit the Tsukiji fish market while I'm in Tokyo - I've also heard that there are great 'hole in the wall' type stands cooking up maybe a big bowl of soup or noodles which sounds great.

I've seen many of those, and those noodles sure look yummy. They also have these egg thingy (tomago something) that is piping hot, and it's absolutely delicious!!

Also: Is 'arigato' ok in most situations for thank you? And is there a good word/phrase for 'excuse me' in the sense of "I'm sorry I knocked over your bowl of soup" and also in the sense of "can I get past so that I can take a closer look at that amazing stew thing?".

Sumimasen

Oh, I can't wait!!

←

[sanrensho]

Great to hear back from a fellow cyclist and food lover!  I may be misguided here, but I feel like you can always trust a cyclist.  And by the same token, you can never trust someone who doesn't enjoy food.  Also I find the two things complement eachother perfectly; the more you cycle, the more you can eat! 

I agree wholeheartedly. Every meal tastes better after a good bike ride. "Live to ride, ride to eat!"

We'll be on our beautiful steel custom built touring frames with fancy lugwork made by a small family company in Derbyshire in England called Mercian. I'd quite like to watch some keirin racing while we're in Tokyo.  Do you have any tips??

I've heard about those bikes. Very nice. Another good thing about Japan is that you don't have to worry about theft to the extent that you would in most countries.

Sadly, I have never seen a keirin race so I can't be of much help there. I was out of cycling for nearly 20 years (sob!), which happened to coincide with the 6 years I lived in Japan (double sob!). However, I do plan to go back at some point to ride some of the mountains in the Japan Alps, as we have relatives in Nagano Prefecture.

I love ramen and soba noodles... I'm even beginning to like sweets with red bean paste although that is quite an acquired taste which I wasn't too interested in acquiring initially.

I was going to suggest ramen and soba as the perfect lunch, especially if you are riding during the fall. Every region has their specialties in terms of noodles (soba, kishimen, udon, houtou, etc.). The ramen is also very distinct from region to region (and shop to shop).

If you have time, try to stop in at the local wagashiya (traditional Japanese sweets shop) wherever you are for a break. They should be very accommodating with a few samples and hot tea. You could think of wagashi as Japanese Gu energy gels!

How can you tell, from looking at it, whether a place is serving up good, honest, tasty food?  (Apart from that fact that it's full of locals!)

About the only places I would not recommend are budget Chinese restaurants, which are usually not very authentic, and family restaurants, which are often mediocre. With two weeks to spend, I would try to target regional specialties and as many of the specialty restaurants as you can afford (tempura restaurant, unagi-ya or eel restaurant, sushi-ya, okonimiyaki or Japanese pancake, etc.). There are some excellent ideas in this thread:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=73962

Needless to say, I'm really jealous of your trip. I think you'll have a great time. I'll post some additional information on the weekend.

-Kenji Watanabe

('04 Kona Jake, '98 Rocky Mountain Team Scandium)

[Druckenbrodt]

Thank you for the excellent advice dornachu and senrensho. Thinking about regional food specialities and checking out that regional egullet thread is making me very excited indeed!

I'm going to be there first half November. Are there any seasonal specialities/food festivals which we should try to check out?

[JasonTrue]

You didn't say if your accommodations are going to be camping, youth hostel, hotels, or ryokan, but I should point out that in some cases, ryokan can be a very cost-effective way of staying. I've stayed in hotels for $120-160/night and gotten an alarm clock and a bathroom in my room, but then gone to a ryokan for $120-160/night and gotten an elaborate dinner and breakfast. I prefer the latter.

Keep in mind that many ryokan will require some advance planning, and the best ones tend to be in more rural areas, and often associated with onsen. If you're traveling in off-peak seasons, you can sometimes get excellent deals, especially on weekdays.

Ryokan can also be stratospherically expensive, so don't be misled: I'm not saying ryokan are always a budget option, but they can be a cost-effective way of experiencing a lot of great things all at once. They also guarantee that your lunch on such a day will not need to be much more than a quick stop at a soba shop.

Many onsen are only accessible if you are a guest of their ryokan, or you might pay 2000-3000 yen for admission just to the onsen part if they offer that, and you'll have to eat two or three meals anyway. So, even if you are staying in camping areas or youth hostels most of the time, some ryokan may be good way of packing a lot into your "splurge" experiences.

I'm not sure the best way to find the budget options for ryokan, but most Japanese rely on magazines or internet searches. I just relied on my Japanese friends to help me on that

[SuzySushi]

Re: Ryokan. In rural areas, try for Minshuku ("people's inns"). They're similar to ryokan in many ways, but a lot cheaper! You'll sleep on futon, bathrooms are down the hall, many have lovely furos, and the food's usually good. Many of the staff do not speak much English, but they're friendly and you can get by with smiles and sign language.

[helenjp]

Matsudo Keirinjo (velodrome) is a couple of stations away from us on the JR east Joban line. It's at Kita-Matsudo, one station from the Matsudo station, which is 20 minutes by express train from Ueno on the main central Tokyo loop line, the Yamate Line.

We used to live near there, and picking our way through the drunk patrons and their leavings to get to and from the station didn't encourage us to go to the cycle races, but we've been to the kids' festival held there!

The time table has races pretty much every day from the 4th through the 15th, but particularly over the weekends.

I'm not sure what November is going to be like for us, but PM me if you think you'd like to visit.

[robyn]

I recently bought 2 books about eating in Japan. Of the 2 - I'd pick "What's What in Japanese Restaurants" by Robb Satterwhite if I were traveling really light (which is what I assume people on bikes do). Also - my husband has been learning basic Japanese with the use of the Pimsleur system. There's really not enough time to do much before a November trip - but I recommend trying to get through levels 1 and 2 for people who have the time. Robyn

[torakris]

we really have quite anumber of members coming to Japan soon!! Rememberto post something in the ISO thread if you are interested in getting together, I for one love to eat!

I don't know too much about biking but am happy to help with guiding you to food...

If you haven't already check out the pinned thread on Japan for visitors, there is a lot of great information there.

As for traveling cheaply, when you feel you want to splurge for a nice meal do it at lunch, some places you can really get a good deal.

Have you decided what areas you want to bike to yet? Hokkaido can be quite cold and snowy in November. The meibutsu thread (local dishes) can be quite helpful. Once you have decided where you are going you can figure out what foods to eat. It sounds like you will be able to hit many areas so the food possibilities are endless.

Many smaller shops (like noodle shops, etc) don't have picture menus, so it might be a good idea to learn some of the popular kinds of noodles. Such as kitsune udon/soba has a sweetened piece of aburage on top, tanuki udon/soba has tenkasu (deep fried tempura bits), sansai udon/soba is topped with a mix of various mountain vegetables.

I definitely recommend Robb Satterwhites book on eating in Japanese restaurants that Robyn mentioned. It will easily fit in your backpack and is a must if you will be eating in a place without a picture menu.

[prasantrin]

Just a note, if your bf is a strict vegetarian, it may be a little more difficult to eat cheaply. Ramen shops, for example, usually use pork stock, and even the miso soup that comes with most teishoku is made with fish stock. Many of my vegetarian friends operate on a "don't ask, don't tell" policy while in Japan. But for some ideas of vegetarian restaurants, see this site and this one.

[Druckenbrodt]

Thank you for the amazing feed back everyone! This has been an incredibly helpful, knowledgeable and inspiring thread!

We've only just got a guidebook and a map so we're going to start working out where we're going to try to travel over the coming weeks. We are sort of thinking of bringing a tent but I think it will be a bit cold in November for that sort of thing. Not that it can't be done, but you need a few creature comforts... The food guidebook sounds excellent - another for my Abebooks/Amazon list!

I have to establish what's happening when with the work stuff but it would be really fun to meet up with egulleters while in Tokyo!

[sanrensho]

I'm a bit late with my promised post.

I'm including a link to the Japan Youth Hostel Association, since you mention you're on a budget. This would be a good way to meet native Japanese as most of the other hostel guests will likely be Japanese. Some of the hostels do have onsen hot spring baths (look for the tiny bath symbol), although they will not be fancy like a ryokan bath.

http://www.jyh.or.jp/english/

Also, I do know of a few people posting on cycling boards (RBR and CyclingForum) who are living in Japan. I don't know any of them personally, and I seem to recall that most are living south of Tokyo. However, I could tell you where to contact them if you have any cycling-specific questions. Send me a PM if you want this info.

Which part of France are you living (and riding) in?