Roasting Turkey

[Dave the Cook]

The pan drippings can be quite salty, so taste the gravy often as you are making it and have some good unsalted turkey/chicken stock on hand to dilute (depending on your recipe).

Excellent tip.

I usually buy some wings and roast them the weekend before to make stock, if I remember in time. The wings have plenty of gelatin, and the stock can be substituted for chicken in generic situations, should you make more than is needed.

[Tonyfinch]

All this brining sounds like a faff.

I roast a turkey every Xmas using Delia Smith's method and it always turns out perfect.

Stuff the turkey with whatever then smother with salt,pepper and butter.

Wrap it up in a foil parcel ensuring that it is airtight and that there is enough room above the breast for the air to circulate

Roast on a high heat for 40 mins to get it all going then turn it down and leave it for approx 20 mins per lb.

Pull away the foil from the breast and baste regularly with the buttery juices for the last 40 mins until the breast is golden brown.

Leave to stand for 20-30 mins.

Carve.

[Kenny R]

Yes--Brining is great insurance against a dry bird.  The meat is moist, salty, and delicious.

I've never brined a turkey before but I'm tempted to this year. "Salty" concerns me a little. I always have a few Seniors for Thanksgiving. I fight the battle between bland and spicey when I cook for them (spicey usually wins ) However if the meat tastes "salty" I think I'll get compaints. Any experiences or opinions?

Thanks

[Dave the Cook]

All this brining sounds like a faff.

I roast a turkey every Xmas using Delia Smith's method and it always turns out perfect.

Stuff the turkey with whatever then smother with salt,pepper and butter.

Wrap it up in a foil parcel ensuring that it is airtight and that there is enough room above the breast for the air to circulate

Roast on a high heat for 40 mins to get it all going then turn it down and leave it for approx 20 mins per lb.

Pull away the foil from the breast and baste regularly with the buttery juices for the last 40 mins  until the breast is golden brown.

Leave to stand for 20-30 mins.

Carve.

This will indeed make a nice turkey. Brining would make it better.

Calling it 'faff' doesn't change the science behind it. Why not try it and see for yourself?

[CathyL]

D the C, excellent treatise on brining. And ditto on letting the brined bird air-dry overnight.

[Toby]

Brining turns the taste and texture of turkey from boring to elegant. The first time I ate a turkey that had been brined, I could hardly believe it was turkey. Also, get the best turkey you can find -- organic, free range.

[tommy]

has anyone here actually done an experiment that is at least *slightly* scientific? such as, cooking 2 birds, bought from the same place, under the same conditions, one right after the other, in the same oven, equal amounts of basting, same aromatics, one brined and one not, and compared them side-by-side? (col apparently has done this with chicken parts to some extent).

i'm betting the number of people who can answer "yes" is way off from the number of people who opine that "brining really does make a difference."

personally, i'll be brining for the first time this year. and i'm under no allusion that i'll be able to confidently say that the result will be markedly better than any other year. that said, i'm thinking that brining can't hurt.

[Dave the Cook]

I've never brined a turkey before but I'm tempted to this year. "Salty" concerns me a little. I always have a few Seniors for Thanksgiving. I fight the battle between bland and spicey when I cook for them (spicey usually wins ) However if the meat tastes "salty" I think I'll get compaints. Any experiences or opinions?

Thanks

It's a matter of opinion, but I would not characterize a properly brined bird as salty--I would say 'well-seasoned.' I've never had a complaint about saltiness.

I am convinced that under-salting during cooking results in over-salting at the table. Turkey is particularly susceptible to this because dried-out breast meat has practically no flavor, and people reach for the salt cellar instinctively.

When you first prepare a brine, you might be shocked at how much salt is required. But keep in mind that you only need all that salt because you need a lot of water to cover that big bird. The amount of brine that ends up in the turkey is actually pretty small.

I suppose you could make an approximation of how much sodium is getting into the meat by doing a before-and-after weigh in. Figure the difference, and, knowing the density of the brine, make a calculation. But I am pretty sure that the total sodium content would not be above that of one of those pre-injected turkeys that are so common these days. If one of those would be OK for your guests, I think you could brine a natural bird without reservation. Alternatively, you can adjust the strength of the brine. Just don't brine a pre-injected bird, or a kosher bird. Kosher turkeys, while technically not brined, are processed in such a way that you will get a similar result. I've tried both, and I prefer brining, because I can control the seasoning. Also, kosher turkeys are quite expensive.

CathyL:

[tommy]

I've tried both, and I prefer brining, because I can control the seasoning. Also, kosher turkeys are quite expensive.

dave, nice avatar.

how much could a kosher turkey possibly cost? is it that much better? i'm thinking that the extra expenditure once a year probably isn't a big deal in the big scheme of things.

[Ron Johnson]

has anyone here actually done an experiment that is at least *slightly* scientific?  such as, cooking 2 birds, bought from the same place, under the same conditions, one right after the other, in the same oven, equal amounts of basting, same aromatics, one brined and one not, and compared them side-by-side?

Yes, the first year my father brined a turkey there were skeptics in the family, and because we have to do two turkeys anyway, he did one brine and one sans brine. The difference was obvious in juiciness and flavor. The brined turkey meat was very juicy and had a lovely seasoned flavor.

I have also done one turkey on the weber grill, indirect method (no brine) and one turkey in the oven (no brine) and the weber grill turkey was much better.

So, I am guessing the ultimate turkey would be brined AND weber method. However, that is only a hypothesis at this point and without scientific studies.

[tommy]

Yes, the first year my father brined a turkey there were skeptics in the family, and because we have to do two turkeys anyway, he did one brine and one sans brine. The difference was obvious in juiciness and flavor.  The brined turkey meat was very juicy and had a lovely seasoned flavor.

I have also done one turkey on the weber grill, indirect method (no brine) and one turkey in the oven (no brine) and the weber grill turkey was much better.

So, I am guessing the ultimate turkey would be brined AND weber method. However, that is only a hypothesis at this point and without scientific studies. 

junk science. phooey.

[Wilfrid]

Phooey, maybe (although I prefer "pfui"). But brining is so easy and so cheap that I say "Why not?" Maybe the same bird would have been great without being brined, but why take a chance?

[tommy]

But brining is so easy and so cheap that I say "Why not?"

it takes up more space

it takes more thought

it takes more equipment in the way of a large vessel

the first-timer runs the risk of having an over-salty or over-sweet bird

your family looks at you funny when you suggest it

your family looks at you funny because you're wilfrid

steak

[Dave the Cook]

I've tried both, and I prefer brining, because I can control the seasoning. Also, kosher turkeys are quite expensive.

dave, nice avatar.

how much could a kosher turkey possibly cost? is it that much better? i'm thinking that the extra expenditure once a year probably isn't a big deal in the big scheme of things.

It's not a big deal, especially if you compare it to free-range and/or organic turkey. I mention it because not everybody will want, or have the opportunity, to splurge, and your basic supermarket bird will benefit from brining. Besides, every penny saved on turkey can be spent on wine.

it takes up more space put it outside in a cooler with a pile of gel packs

it takes more equipment in the way of a large vessel see previous

it takes more thought you seem like a pretty bright fella

the first-timer runs the risk of having an over-salty or over-sweet bird follow directions and go easy on the sugar until you know your taste--oh, wait a minute, that requires thought. See previous.

your family looks at you funny when you suggest it only when you suggest it?

your family looks at you funny because you're wilfrid can't help you there

steak well, there is that

Avatar: right back atchya, tommy

[GordonCooks]

A test turkey is a great idea is alleviate that first time anxiety (so to speak)

GordonCooks what stove did you purchase?  Do you like it?

Just a Cheapie Amana Gas Range. I usually move every 18-24 months because I like to buy a house - rehab it - rent it or sell it. I got a great deal on the unit because it was the only Stainless unit Lowe's had. It was 1279.00 marked down to 995.00 (about 200.00 cheaper than the GE Profile with better features. (5000 btu simmer, 10,000 backs and a 13,000 front) The 5 cu ft + oven gets to temp pretty fast also and has a warming drawer. I thought it was a steal.

I have my old 36" Range sitting in storage. Too much of a gas hog and little too big for this kitchen. Here a construction pic (mostly of the new tile but you can see the range)

[awbrig]

Alton Brown's technique brines the turkey, he doesnt stuff it w stuffing - bacteria concerns, doesnt truss the turkey, and he roasts it at 500 degrees...

http://www.foodtv.com/holidays/thanksgivin...0,6849,,00.html

what have been your results for the people that have used these techniques such as not tying the bird or roasting it that hot...

[tommy]

OK, we've determined the following:

1) gordon has a nice floor

1a) gordon is a slum-lord

2) brining is for pretentious twits with too much time on their hands who figure "it can't hurt."

3) run-of-the-mill store-bought birds might benefit from brining, and are surely for tourists

4) kosher birds are better than run-of-the-mill store-bought birds

now, my question is, should i get one of them there "fresh" birds?

please discuss.

[Schielke]

has anyone here actually done an experiment that is at least *slightly* scientific?  such as, cooking 2 birds, bought from the same place, under the same conditions, one right after the other, in the same oven, equal amounts of basting, same aromatics, one brined and one not, and compared them side-by-side?  (col apparently has done this with chicken parts to some extent).

i'm betting the number of people who can answer "yes" is way off from the number of people who opine that "brining really does make a difference."

personally, i'll be brining for the first time this year.  and i'm under no allusion that i'll be able to confidently say that the result will be markedly better than any other year.  that said, i'm thinking that brining can't hurt.

No experiment needs to be done, it really is obvious when you taste it. Like night and day.

Ben

[tommy]

No experiment needs to be done, it really is obvious when you taste it.  Like night and day.

Ben

the scientific process must be applied and followed.

observe

hypothesize

experiment (controlled)

analyze results

repeat until i'm correct

[awbrig]

That is a nice floor and a nice oven...

Tommy here is a good link that discusses the different types and qualities of turkeys...about 1/2 way down the article or so...

he didnt really recommend fresh turkeys...i think you'll like the article

http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/SeasonMisc/...yTranscript.htm

also on foodtv.com they have a short video series on preparing and cooking a turkey

[maggiethecat]

My husband has managed to find a different turkey preparation method for every single bird he has ever cooked. Certainly keeps the stress level High on the big day.

Brining was last year. I didn't find that the results were worth the negatives that Tommy mentioned. And it was too damned salty.

Somewhere, "Cook's", I think, recently did a test and found the much-maligned frozen Butterball to be a perfectly good turkey. They have done the brining for you.

I cooked one for Canadian Thanksgiving at my mother's a few weeks ago. It was damn good.

Fresh is good, but not really worth the difference in price.

And DO NOT try the Pepin partially steamed over water method. One of Jacques's few flops. Even His Handsomeness didn't go back for seconds. The cats made out for weks.

[aliwaks]

Brined Turkey (takes 24 hours)

You need: One BIG 5 GALLON BUCKET with lid

Note: You can use what ever fruits you like, orange, red onion mix would work as would raspberries or frozen peaches or mangos

Part One:

• One Free range and/or organic Fresh (not frozen) turkey @ 18-20 lbs

• 2 gallons apple juice or apple cider (100% juice)

• 4 Apples, halved

• 3 onions, halved

• Rosemary

• 1 head garlic, cloves separated & smashed

• 2 cups brown sugar or maple syrup

• 4 cups Kosher Salt

• Handful toasted black peppercorns

• 3 bay leaves

1. Wash Turkey, remove giblet package

2. Put turkey in BIG BUCKET

3. Put Fruit, Veg & herbs in Big BUCKET

4. Mix together salt & sugar or maple syrup and dilute with water

5. Pour water/Sugar/Salt mixture over Turkey in BIG BUCKET

6. Add Apple Juice/Cider to cover turkey (if that is not enough add more water)

7. Let sit in a very cool place for at least 18 hours (outside in cold weather , in fridge, or surrounded by cold packs in a cooler

PART 2

The Roasting the Turkey

(If you change the fruits in the brine I would continue with the same here)

• ½ cup butter softened

• 2 sprigs thyme

• 3 pears

• 1 head roasted garlic (peeled)

• Juice from one lemon

• salt

• ground black or white pepper

• 1 lemon, quartered

• 4 onion, quartered

• 3 shallots, peeled

• rosemary stalk

• bunch of sage leaves

• 4 carrots

• 3 ribs celery

Preheat oven to 425

1 Remove Turkey from Bucket, discard liquid, fruit, veg etc

2 Pat dry inside and out (If you have the time you can let the turkey sit uncovered in fridge for about 3 hours will crisp the skin even more)

3 Salt & Pepper the inside of the bird and stuff with lemons, onions, shallots, rosemary ½ the sage, 1 pear

4 Mix together butter, thyme leaves, roasted garlic cloves, lemon juice to form paste

5 Stick you hand under the skin of the turkey separating the skin from the meat (I know it sounds gross and it kind of is but it is ultimately for the best)

6 Smear the butter all over between the skin and meat

7 Thinly slice the pear length wise and insert pear slices and sage leaves over the butter under the skin

8 Place carrots, remaining onions, shallots, & celery in bottom of roasting pan, place under rack

9 Place buttered tinfoil over rack

10 Put turkey breast side down on foil, roast this way for 1 ½ hours

11 Turn Turkey, lower heat to 375 roast until dark meat reads 180 degrees

Don’t need to baste, skin will stay crispier if you don’t and brining + upside down + butter will keep meat moist

Part 3

Gravy Foundation

• Giblets

• 1 cup white wine

• 2 cups chicken or turkey stock

• 2 diced carrots

• 2 ribs diced celery

• 1 diced onion

• 5 sage leaves

• ½ cup brandy

• ½ cup butter

1 Sauté (in large sauce pan) carrots, onions & celery in butter till translucent

2 Add giblets + sage leaves and brown

3 Add wine + stock + brandy

4 Simmer on low for remainder of cooking day

5 Add turkey basters full of pan drippings as you go

6 Once turkey is done remove & set aside giblets & Veg & Veg from roasting pan (discard stuff from inside turkey)

7 strain liquids and pan dripping, return to pot

8 Take half the veg from pan & half the stock veg & the liver of turkey and blend in blender or food processor

9 Add veg mush to pot and reduce approx. 15 –minutes till thick enough for you season with salt & pepper to taste

[Huevos del Toro]

Yes--Brining is great insurance against a dry bird.  The meat is moist, salty, and delicious.

I've never brined a turkey before but I'm tempted to this year. "Salty" concerns me a littleThanks

Not only concentration and time affect the saltiness, but the crystal shape and size of the salt can have a profound effect. If the brining instructions call for 1 cup of salt, assume they mean regular table salt (fine crystals). If using Morton's kosher salt, increase by 25-percent. If, however, using Diamond Crystal kosher salt, double the amount called for. Morton's has a larger crystal size than table salt. Therefore 1 cup will not weigh as much as table salt. Diamond Crystal has much larger crystals. So 1 cup will weigh approximately half that of table salt.

[Priscilla]

I've cooked expensive organic free-rangers and less-expensive "fresh" California brand-namers and artisanal family-farmers like Pomona's own Shelton Poultry, and some have been good and some not as good. (Shelton's ducks are ceaselessly superior specimens, while we're on poultry, however.) Kitchen ovens, and in-the-garden Webers and New Braunsfelds and briquettes and mesquite and so on. Unbrined, and, also, brined.

However last year for some reason we brined and cooked a big old cheap-ass supermarket turkey, Honeysuckle White brand, at whatever superlow pre-Thanksgiving loss-leader sale price it was, and it was the Best Turkey Ever. Lemons and oranges and a hit of brandy in the brine, after I think a suggestion by Mr. Emeril Legasse.

And I am taking to heart the letting-it-dry overnight before cooking, and gladly, because slightly flaccid skin, even after the requisite long long cooking, was the one slight drawback to brinage, I thought. But there's THAT little problem corrected, then.

[Human Bean]

3) run-of-the-mill store-bought birds might benefit from brining, and are surely for tourists

I almost always buy the low-end, tourist-class birds, and, 'round here they're almost always pre-brined. You'll see a statement something along the lines of, "DEEP BASTED WITH UP TO 8% OF A SOLUTION of broth, salt, and a few other random chemicals we decided to throw in" on the label. They've been injected with this chemical gunk, so it isn't necessary to brine them. And they taste okay.

I'd love to have one of those organic free-range line-caught kosher turkeys every year, but the expense isn't worth it. My objective is mass gluttony, not fine dining (the HORROR!) and the audience (family) isn't that critical anyway.