Middle Eastern Codified Cuisine

[chefzadi]

Is Lebanese cuisine really strictly codified? Does changing one ingredient change the dish so much that it has a different name? Or make it inauthentic?

I can think of at least ten different versions of Alegerian Chicken with Olives and the names of the dishes don't really change even though some of the dishes are very different.

French dishes of course have very specific names, even for potato preparations that vary only in the type of cheese used for instance or whether or not garlic is used.

So my question is, is there a Lebanese tradition of generations of writers codifying the cuisine and documenting precise names?

[Behemoth]

Since nobody else has stepped up to the plate and I feel like procrastinating:

Is Lebanese cuisine really strictly codified? Does changing one ingredient change the dish so much that it has a different name? Or make it inauthentic?

Depends on what you mean by strictly. If you were to serve an American style bulgar salad with a little parsley in it and call it tabbouli people would think you were nuts. But most people we knew tweaked their dishes a little in one direction or another and it was considered a nice personal touch, so long as the dish remained recognizable. In other words, there is a limit on how much you can change something (and it also depends on the dish...) but nothing as strict as French cuisine.

So my question is, is there a Lebanese tradition of generations of writers codifying the cuisine and documenting precise names?

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Well, just considering the history, it would be hard to have generations of writers talking specifically about Lebanese cuisine as opposed to Levantine or "greater Syrian" cuisine. After all, my grandfather was in the Ottoman army and then a Gendarme .

I have tried over the past few years to look for truly exhaustive, more scholarly sources but there doesn't seem to be much out there that is specifically Lebanese, or even Levantine as opposed to more generally Middle-Eastern. Of course there is practically a glut of Lebanese cookbooks on the market, and maybe that has to some extent codified what certain dishes are supposed to look like (at least for the foriegners and immigrants who bother with them), even though there are always slight variations, and of course they always focus on the popular stuff. In other words, no real formal scholarly attempt that I've come across. The infamous TV chef was the first place I'd seen where there was some effort to even set down what specific region things come from. (Before that I'd mainly heard of these things from my dad who as I mentioned before loved to take us on car trips of questionable safety to introduce us to the local delicacies...)

As to where I've looked, obviously it is easier to search in English, French and German, just because of the existence of stuff like google, amazon and library catalogues. My dad is a book publisher so he is usually a great resource -- he generally likes to feed my various interests but apart from the Ramzi book he sent me I get mostly Arabic poetry and Islamic-era math from him so I've assumed there might not be much out there. Would love to hear if you find anything, or what methods you use to look for books with arabic titles.

[chefzadi]

I've assumed there might not be much out there. Would love to hear if you find anything, or what methods you use to look for books with arabic titles.

There's alot out there. I keep finding more and more and it's really a continuum (correct word for this?) of many writers throughout history. Hey, there was a Syrian historian writing about Maghrebian (couscous) way back when. There's an Andalusian cookbook from the 13th century that documents Mashriqi recipes.

I have tried over the past few years to look for truly exhaustive, more scholarly sources but there doesn't seem to be much out there that is specifically Lebanese, or even Levantine as opposed to more generally Middle-Eastern.

There's been trade and communication between North Africa and the Middle East since ancient times, cradle of civilization, seafarers, traders and all that.

Clifford Wright and Charles Perry are the most rigourous sources in English, not that they wouldn't be in other languages, but they write in English.

EDIT: An example of food scholarship beyond the writer's realm of knwledge and research This article

The Phoenicians, merchants from North Africa, were the first to establish a series of trading ports along the coast of Morocco nearly three thousand years ago

The Phoenicians were from North Africa? :

I emailed them, no response.

Edited August 5, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

[FoodMan]

Other than the French Grand Cuisine, I cannot think of a cuisine that strictly "codified". Well, maybe what Artuzi tried to dowith Italian cuisine can be considered codification, but nowhere near what the French have. We do not have Escoffier or Artuzi in Lebanese cuisine, and just like most of the North Africa-Middle East area our food is the food of the homecook not the Chef.

Like Nadia mentioned, recipes vary but you only change something so much and still call it Tabbouli. Maybe you can call it "Tabbouli" but not Tabbouli .

Now what's up with that:

The Phoenicians were from North Africa?

That has to be the first time I've seen them refered to as North African.

Elie

[Behemoth]

EDIT: An example of  food scholarship beyond the writer's realm of knwledge and research This article

The Phoenicians, merchants from North Africa, were the first to establish a series of trading ports along the coast of Morocco nearly three thousand years ago

The Phoenicians were from North Africa? :

I emailed them, no response.

←

My other favorite dubious factoid:

The entire Mediterranean rim is known for their anise-flavored liqueurs. In the South of France there is Pastis, in Italy you'll find Sambuca, in Greece Ouzo, and in Lebanon there is the ubiquitous Arak. Arak is the national drink of Lebanon. Interestingly, these anise-flavored liqueurs came into existence around the turn of the century as a substitute-out of desperation actually-when the infamous beverage Absinthe became illegal.

edit: if you notice the recipes on the bottom of the Lebanon page -- a fattoush with hummus in it, and a red-pepper hummus. Interesting...

Edited August 5, 2005 by Behemoth (log)

[anzu]

So this person is essentially claiming that people in Lebanon, Greece, etc. were drinking absinthe!!?

I confess to total ignorance of the subject, but this other explanation - that anise flavored drinks came into being due to the availability of anise flavored raw ingredients, as in here (scroll three quarters down the page) for example - sound plausible to me!

This linked page also has the bonus of giving a pastis recipe.

Red-pepper hummus?

Edited August 5, 2005 by anzu (log)

[chefzadi]

So this person is essentially claiming that people in Lebanon, Greece, etc. were drinking absinthe!!? 

I confess to total ignorance of the subject, but this other explanation -  that anise flavored drinks came into being due to the availability of anise flavored raw ingredients, as in here (scroll three quarters down the page) for example -  sound plausible to me!

This linked page also has the bonus of giving a pastis recipe. 

Red-pepper hummus? 

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The linked page also says...

The less picturesque but more plausible reason for Provence being the home of pastis is that ingredients grew wild around the villages and were easy to obtain. Most farmers made their own wine and distilled their own potent liqueurs. Until recently the right of distillation was a family asset that could be passed down from father to son. There are still families that distil their fabulously strong pastis maison.

Pastis is not a French "invention" it is an Arab invention. The French farmers did not invent distilling alchohol or anise flavored alcohol. There is a thread on this somewhere. I'll look for it and link to it.

[chefzadi]

EDIT: An example of  food scholarship beyond the writer's realm of knwledge and research This article

The Phoenicians, merchants from North Africa, were the first to establish a series of trading ports along the coast of Morocco nearly three thousand years ago

The Phoenicians were from North Africa? :

I emailed them, no response.

←

My other favorite dubious factoid:

The entire Mediterranean rim is known for their anise-flavored liqueurs. In the South of France there is Pastis, in Italy you'll find Sambuca, in Greece Ouzo, and in Lebanon there is the ubiquitous Arak. Arak is the national drink of Lebanon. Interestingly, these anise-flavored liqueurs came into existence around the turn of the century as a substitute-out of desperation actually-when the infamous beverage Absinthe became illegal.

edit: if you notice the recipes on the bottom of the Lebanon page -- a fattoush with hummus in it, and a red-pepper hummus. Interesting...

←

Just so we don't confuse other readers even though the regulars here in the Africa/ME forum know this, The Phoenicians are modern day Syrians and Lebanese.

And as far as who invented alcohol, distillation and the origins of arak (pastis) look here. It's an Arab invention, not something that French farmers or monks came up with themselves.

[anzu]

Maybe I misread the page, but I didn't interpret it as saying that arrak, alcohol or the distilling of spirits was invented in southern France. I might be remembering this incorrectly, but I think the same writer has other things elsewhere about alcohol and distillation, and ascribing it to the Arabs.

I was interpreting the page as saying that the flavoring of pastis was inspired by locally grown plants (rather than, as in the first link, being ascribed totally to an abrupt desire to imitate the flavor of absinthe. That original link makes it seem as if all Mediterranean peoples were drinking absinthe, and suddenly and desperately needed to come up with a substitute).

So, to me, it seemed to be suggesting that flavoring of various anise flavored spirits around the Mediterranean were perhaps invented independently as people used those flavoring agents which were readily available to them. Whether this is true or not I don't know.

However, the connection made on the page between monks and pastis is an interesting one to me. After all, is it not the case that some of the confectionary from convents and monasteries in parts of southern Italy (and Spain also?) has preserved the Arab food connection even more rigorously than other types of food in those areas?

Is something similar going on with monks having preserved the distillation skills or certain preferences in flavorings that were first learnt from the Arabs?

(And then of course later failing to acknowledge any debt to the Arabs for this knowledge ).

[Behemoth]

I was interpreting the page as saying that the flavoring of pastis was inspired by locally grown plants (rather than, as in the first link, being ascribed totally to an abrupt desire to imitate the flavor of absinthe. That original link makes it seem as if all Mediterranean peoples were drinking absinthe, and suddenly and desperately needed to come up with a substitute).

That's how I read it too. However, Absinthe was banned in the US in 1912, and in France in 1915. I know of at least one family that has been distilling Arak since 1890, and they are not considered that unusual. Now suppose or argument's sake they were distilling with wormwood rather than anis. I have no idea whether absinthe was ever formally banned in Lebanon, (let's say it was by french mandate...) then given what I know about Lebanese people, a) 1915 is awfully late for people to have forgotten such a major tradition and b)I really cannot imagine people would have stopped doing what they were doing because of a law. Especially when it comes to distilling at home, which lots of people do.

It just seemed fishy.

[FoodMan]

I ahve to agree with Behemoth, we might not have a codified cuisine but claiming that Arak (which we discussed exhaustivly on another thread) is distilled as a substitute for Absinthe is wrong. My grandfather still distills his own arak and he tells me so did his father and grandfather,....this alone takes us back to before the "Absinthe ban".

Now, let us try and keep this thread on track please.

Elie

[chefzadi]

I was interpreting the page as saying that the flavoring of pastis was inspired by locally grown plants (rather than, as in the first link, being ascribed totally to an abrupt desire to imitate the flavor of absinthe. That original link makes it seem as if all Mediterranean peoples were drinking absinthe, and suddenly and desperately needed to come up with a substitute).

It's flavored with locally grown plants in other parts of the Med as well.

I have another project now, tracing the spread of arak.

[pierreverte]

>I know of at least one family that has been distilling Arak since 1890, and they are not considered that unusual.

anise has been used to flavor distilled alcohols in many countries since at least the 17th century. pastis was created mostly as a substitute for absinthe, but appears to have existed in france as a regional home-made southern drink at the same time as absinthe.

>Now suppose or argument's sake they were distilling with wormwood rather than anis.

not very likely as there is no commonly known tradition of absinthe manufacture/drinking in lebanon

>I have no idea whether absinthe was ever formally banned in Lebanon, (let's say it was by french mandate...)

it was not. the french took control of lebanon well after absinthe was banned in france and its colonies and a ban does not appear to have been needed.

there are no laws against it in lebanon now.

Edited August 6, 2005 by pierreverte (log)

[chefzadi]

I have tried over the past few years to look for truly exhaustive, more scholarly sources but there doesn't seem to be much out there that is specifically Lebanese, or even Levantine as opposed to more generally Middle-Eastern. Of course there is practically a glut of Lebanese cookbooks on the market, and maybe that has to some extent codified what certain dishes are supposed to look like (at least for the foriegners and immigrants who bother with them), even though there are always slight variations, and of course they always focus on the popular stuff. In other words, no real formal scholarly attempt that I've come across. The infamous TV chef was the first place I'd seen where there was some effort to even set down what specific region things come from. (Before that I'd mainly heard of these things from my dad who as I mentioned before loved to take us on car trips of questionable safety to introduce us to the local delicacies...)

As far as Algerian I do my research based on what I saw on my visits there, what I understand to be 'traditional' cooking techniques and methods, history of different cities, interviews and shared cooking time with other Algerians and try to place recipes within a historical/cultural context. There are dishes that have names but it's not strict, it usually refers to a a cooking method, a vessel, a set of ingredients (not strict, for instance prunes can be subsituted for apricots, or pine nuts for almonds), description of the primary flavor (such as "sweet", "spicy" or "hot"), the names can be as vague as "meat" or simply name a vegetable for a wide range preparations. Alot of Algerians don't even know bother to give specific names to certain dishes, "We're having eggplant with meat" does not refer to a codified dish. That's why there are so many recipes and variations, alot of inventiveness and very few arguments about "authenticity" although comments like "you put cinnamon into your chorba *ACK*" aren't uncommon.

As far as Lebanese, no I haven't seen anything like what you're looking for, I haven't really been looking at Middle Eastern cooking that much. There are several librarians and researchers who have been very helpful with questions I have, so I'll ask around. I have some good search engines I'll send you.

[theabroma]

What a fascinating give and take! Thanks.

There may be some items of interest - plus the bibliography- in Culinary Thymes, Sami Zubaida, et al., eds.

My sense is that the closest thing one will find to "codification a la francaise" (lord, that sounds like some concoction of cod milt with laitue fatique and petits pois ... ick feh!) will be in records, histories, or receipt books on the court cuisines of the various countries.

Theabroma

[Behemoth]

What a fascinating give and take!  Thanks.

There may be some items of interest - plus the bibliography- in Culinary Thymes, Sami Zubaida, et al., eds.

Thanks for the tip! Having looked it up, I think you meant: "A Taste of Thyme: Culinary Cultures of the Middle East" by Sami Zubeida and Richard Tapper. I'll have to check it out.

[theabroma]

What a fascinating give and take!  Thanks.

There may be some items of interest - plus the bibliography- in Culinary Thymes, Sami Zubaida, et al., eds.

Thanks for the tip! Having looked it up, I think you meant: "A Taste of Thyme: Culinary Cultures of the Middle East" by Sami Zubeida and Richard Tapper. I'll have to check it out.

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You're absolutely right about the title. Was far away from my books and had to peel it out of a rather choppy memory patch!!! It is a very interesting book.

[rjwong]

I decided to browse through my local used bookstore tonight (chefzadi, you know which one) and I found a paperback copy of Claudia Roden's book (1972 copyright). And no, I didn't buy it. Yet. Should I?

Please inform this ignorant foodie here: Would Roden's book be considered the first book on Middle Eastern cuisine in the English-speaking world? I'm not necessarily talking in terms of chronology, but also in terms of prominence and/or popularity and/or authenticity. Am I asking the correct question?

[chefzadi]

I decided to browse through my local used bookstore tonight (chefzadi, you know which one) and I found a paperback copy of Claudia Roden's book (1972 copyright). And no, I didn't buy it. Yet. Should I?

Please inform this ignorant foodie here: Would Roden's book be considered the first book on Middle Eastern cuisine in the English-speaking world? I'm not necessarily talking in terms of chronology, but also in terms of prominence and/or popularity and/or authenticity. Am I asking the correct question? 

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Don't know, I don't speak English. And I think the pigeons ate all the breadcrumbs tracking me back to that place.

Read The Mediterranean Feast first, to give you a sense of history and context. Anyone who is truly nterested in Mediterranean, North African and Middle Eastern cuisines should read this book.

EDIT: I've never seen a copy of Roden's book. I found this.

North African cooking, particularly the splendid fare of Morocco, with its heady mix of hot and sweet, orchestrated to perfection in its couscous dishes and tagines

Moroccan is not characaterized by a "heady mix of hot and sweet" and it's not in the Middle East.

Edited August 7, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

[anzu]

I decided to browse through my local used bookstore tonight (chefzadi, you know which one) and I found a paperback copy of Claudia Roden's book (1972 copyright). And no, I didn't buy it. Yet. Should I?

Please inform this ignorant foodie here: Would Roden's book be considered the first book on Middle Eastern cuisine in the English-speaking world? I'm not necessarily talking in terms of chronology, but also in terms of prominence and/or popularity and/or authenticity. Am I asking the correct question? 

←

It (I presume you are talking about A New Book of Middle Eastern Food ) covers a lot of ground, and she writes well, so if your looking for something which covers the foods from many different countries, I'd recommend buying it. I have a copy myself.

I believe, though, that more recent version(s?) have been revised and so there might be better or different content in the newer version.

I'm not going to answer the second part of your question. I don't know enough.

[caroline]

Roden's book is great. I prefer the first edition to the second which I don't think adds much and is more bulky. She is from Egypt originally where her family held a very distinguished place in the Sephardic Jewish community with contacts around the Mediterranean. She wrote this book in the 50s or early 60s when she was working on her doctorate (in literature) I think in the British Museum (as then was, now library). It is a wonderful, scholarly yet charming evocation of a world she had lost. She was the first to combine the research of Rodinson and Arberry into the medieval tradition with her own contemporary experience. Much of the Zubaida book is written in response, always a sign of a book that is worthwhile.

Of course in 40 years we have learned a lot and Roden's touch gets less sure (obviously) the further she is from her own experience both in time and place--accounting for your worries Chef Zadi. But I would say it should be in the library of anyone seriously interested in the foods of the South Mediterranean.

Rachel

[theabroma]

There is a title listed in the book awards at this site. Scroll down to the Middle East category It is apparently a culinary history of Lebanon, in French. I am not familiar with it, or with the author, but considering the company it is keeping - Patricia Quinana;s Antojiteria and the massive tome on El Bulli, it might bear inspection.

Cookbook Fair

Theabroma

[chefzadi]

Thanks for the link Abroma

Le Patrimoine Culinaire du Liban,

Chef Ramzi N.Choueiri

(Chef Ramzi-Lebanon)

Chef Ramzi has surprised everyone outside Lebanon with his outstanding cookbook. It will become a classic.

Chef Ramzi is referenced in this forum often. I know he has a website, I can't find it at the moment.

[Almass]

Thanks for the link Abroma

Le Patrimoine Culinaire du Liban,

Chef Ramzi N.Choueiri

(Chef Ramzi-Lebanon)

Chef Ramzi has surprised everyone outside Lebanon with his outstanding cookbook. It will become a classic.

Chef Ramzi is referenced in this forum often. I know he has a website, I can't find it at the moment.

←

- The website is simply: cheframzi.com.lb

Please understand that Chef Ramzi's name is bigger than his hat. The man is a TV Chef selected on pure TV grounds of presentation and articulation. He is not the equivalent of Gordon Ramsey or Delia Smith.

All recipes have been researched by different teams for the TV program owned by Future Television. Similarly, the books and magazine are the result of a large team of people and not his alone.

So, let's keep feet on the ground and give credit where credit is due.

He is a TV Chef and not a culinary gastronomic reference.

Edited August 9, 2005 by Almass (log)

[FoodMan]

I guess we should clarify who Ramzi is for those who do not know. Has anyone heard of Emeril Lagasse? Probably. Ramzi is sort of Emeril in the Middle East. He IS a chef and isntructor in a Lebanese culinary school, so I have no doubt that he can cook and is an effective teacher. On the other hand, like Almass said, he is a TV chef with a very popular program aired on satellite all over the middle east. I am sure that he has a staff that does most of the research for him but that does not mean that his book is not worth anything. It is actually the most comprehensive book of Lebanese recipes from all over the tiny country. Like I mentioned in another thread, the recipes seem to need a more extensive round of testing, but I use it with a large grain of salt, mainly to look stuff up and get ideas about how a certain dish is made.

In the context of this thread, we still do not have a codified cuisine. Ramzi's recipes are a collection from restaurants, families, artisans and bake shops from each region of Lebanon. Probably the biggest proof that there is not "codified" cuisine in Lebanon is the fact that for some recipes (like pumpkin kibbe for example), Ramzi provides several different variations depending where in Lebanon he got it from.

Elie