Sweet corn on the cob, in France

[naguere]

Tomorrow I set off for France, Roscoff my first call and without doubt all through the countryside I will cycle between fields of corn, all for animal fodder I know (at times I have stolen a couple of cobs and cooked them... plain is the taste) .

In shops and supermarkets all that there is available are tiny cobs (two or three inches), or four packs of sweet corn cobs no bigger than six inches long , leaves and silk stripped , topped and tailed. Now I know size doesn't matter, but what is the story on sweet corn in France? Why is proper hunky chunky sweet corn, with leaves and silk still attached unavailable?

It seems to me anyway.

[ludja]

Although I'm not sure of the reason, corn on the cob has not traditionallly been "people food" in most of Western Europe.

[Bux]

Corn, on or off the cob, has not traditionally been people food in France. That it's animal fodder is not going to help, although it does appear with greater frequency than it did forty years ago when it was never seen on a plate. I think I've mainly seen corn in salads, mixed or composed salads and somehow in exotic salads entitled "Mexican." Give the French time. They had to be tricked by Parmentier to get them to eat potatoes. Somehow, given French table manners and the degree to which those are ingrained, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting to see corn on the cob however.

[Bux]

Perhaps Lance Armstrong, in a yellow jersey might be able to sell corn on the cob.

[troyml]

Although I'm not sure of the reason, corn on the cob has not traditionallly been "people food" in most of Western Europe.

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One of my favorite experiences while visiting the Netherlands on a short term Christian mission in High School was spending the evening at a Dutch farmers farm. He was entrepeneurially trying to introduce Sweet Corn into the Dutch diet, and we feasted on bushels of the most fantastic Sweet Corn ever. I got the impression he wasn't having much success overcoming the perception that corn was 'pig feed.'

[ludja]

Interesting story, troyml.

Some of my relatives in Austria with ties to the farm did eat corn occasionally, but it was definately a country treat eaten among family rather that anything you would see in a restaurant. They used the same corn that was used to feed the pigs and chickens, etc. and I think it may have been a harvest treat at the end of the season. Now that the part of my family over there is not farming anymore, I don't think they east this anymore.

The preparation is to strip the corn of its husk and then lay the corn directly on the coals, turning it until it is roasted. The kernels range in color from yellow to brown to black. Wipe off the ashes and then eat with salt and butter.

Over here in the U.S., my family and I do still grill corn like this sometimes and the roasted flavor is delicious. This prep works better though, with the heartier, 'less sweet' yellow type of corn can be harder to find nowadays.

Edited July 1, 2005 by ludja (log)

[Carlsbad]

This post made me realize I can't remember ever having corn in France. I get the sweetest corn here, picked the day we eat it. It doesn't even need butter or salt, but sometimes we cut it off the cob and add a little cream, and it is equally as good and a little more elegant. It's interesting that the French don't eat it.

spelling edited.

Edited July 1, 2005 by Carlsbad (log)

[chefzadi]

I recall seeing cornfields in France, but rarely seeing corn in markets for human consumption. I think most of the corn grown in France goes to making flour and feeding animals. I never ate it in France. Ptipois probably knows more about this than I do.

My wife bought some slow roasted corn from a vendor in front of a Mexican grocery store in LA. It was delicious, plain, nothing added.

[Ptipois]

I recall seeing cornfields in France, but rarely seeing corn in markets for human consumption. I think most of the corn grown in France goes to making flour and feeding animals.  I never ate it in France. Ptipois probably knows more about this than I do.

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Corn on the cob is known in France, but not widely consumed. And we do it wrong: most of the times, corn ears are sold stripped of their husks, so not good anymore. Living in the US I understood how much of a national dish corn on the cob is. Americans took it to a point of perfection. Eating boiled corn on the cob may seem simple, but it is by no means universal.

However, it is possible to find corn in the husk at Asian markets like Paris Store or Tang Frères. Some good fruit and vegetable vendors (like Cours des Halles, Palais du Fruit, etc.) sell it too.

Corn is very popular here in its canned form. Sometimes a bit too popular, judging by buffet salads and some ready-canned salads.

[menton1]

It's not a matter of being "people food", it's more a matter that corn is relatively new to the resistant-to-change European cultures. The first European to discover corn, or more correctly, maize was, yes, that's right, Christopher Columbus. Maize had been used by the native Americans for thousands of years. It has made a very very slow trip across the atlantic, and is barely cultivated by farmers because it's just not a widely used food in the culture.

It is interesting, though, that maize has been widely accepted in Nepal and severay Himalayan folk as a staple in their diet. But they are probably very culturally similar to the Native Americans.

Great corn is still only found in North America. We'll just have to "settle" for those great haricots verts to compensate!!

[chefzadi]

Yes, we have heard of this Cristophe Collomb.

I'm still doing some research on how corn entered North Africa. Probably the Spanish, but I don't know enough to make a statement about that yet. In Algeria we make it into flour. It's not eaten off the cob. I think it might have to do with the variety of corn. The corn there is tougher and starchier.

Hasn't the corn in America been bred to be sweeter and more tender?

[Ptipois]

It's not a matter of being "people food", it's more a matter that corn is relatively new to the resistant-to-change European cultures.

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Just because boiled corn on the cob is rare in France doesn't mean there has been resistance against it, or even against corn. I'm amazed that European cultures should be labeled "resistant to change" just because they have not adopted an American recipe as an everyday dish.

Corn has been widely consumed in some regions for centuries: as polenta (polinte) in Savoie, Dauphiné, Bresse and Bugey since at least the 17th century, also in the Soutwest of France as gaudes, miques, millas, every kind of corn-based mush, cake or pancake. The French below the Loire have been using find cornmeal, coarse cornmeal, yellow maize flour and in some places white maize flour for quite a while. They never usually ate corn in its fresh state because they didn't grow the right kind of corn for this. And I won't mention the use of cornmeal in Italy, Rumania and Portugal. As you see, there wasn't really a resistance to corn in Europe, but to everyone their way of adopting foods according to their soil, climate and preferences.

[chefzadi]

I think the perception of 'resistance' to change' is culturally based.

I've never thought much of these things until I moved to the States. Ptipois is correct when she says

there wasn't really a resistance to corn in Europe, but to everyone their way of adopting foods according to their soil, climate and preferences.

This is true of all cultures. Guess what Magrhebis do with corn? Make it into couscous of course! And Khobz bread.

Back to my original statement about perceptions. American cuisine, because the country is 'young' is still forming and absorbs changes, new ingredients almost instantly. I chuckle a bit sometimes when Americans dismiss pied noir cooking as nouvelle fusion. It started in the 1800's for crying out loud. It's important enough to pied noirs to still publish cookbooks about it and have their own food forums.

Also in America there are Native Americans and Mexicans (and other Latin Americans) who the European explorers/colonizers got all these 'New World' ingredients from to take back to Europe, Asia and Africa.

The best corn on the cob I've ever had was the slow roasted Mexican style. I recall that it wasn't the typical sweet kind with the smaller kernals. This corn had bigger kernals, maybe it was an older variety of corn cooked to bring out it's goodness.

For some strange reason we don't have alot of Mexican corn vendors in France.

[Ptipois]

This is true of all cultures. Guess what Magrhebis do with corn? Make it into couscous of course! And Khobz bread.

I'd be curious to know more about this khobz. The idea of corn bread is quite foreign to the French mind (with its dedication to crusty, springy, light bread), but I came across corn bread in Southern Portugal (Algarve) and I'm wondering whether it may be similar to Khobz, Algarve cuisine having many common points with North African cuisines.

I chuckle a bit sometimes when Americans dismiss pied noir cooking as nouvelle fusion. It started in the 1800's for crying out loud.

And the use of corn as human food in Western Europe is, at any rate, older than the first corn on the cob boiled in the US... As early as the 16th century, maize was a staple in the Basque country. It was quickly adopted elsewhere in the Southwest. In Italy, polenta as a staple dates back to the 2nd half of the 16th century. Maize/corn was adopted much more easily than the tomato and the potato, for it never had the reputation of being toxic.

[therese]

Maize/corn was adopted much more easily than the tomato and the potato, for it never had the reputation of being toxic.

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Making it all the more interesting that is was, in fact, functionally toxic: maize was imported from America, but the appropriate means of corn meal preparation (pre-soaking in an alkaline solution) was not, resulting in niacin deficiency (aka pellagra), a widespread problem in areas where polenta formed the basis of the diet.

As for the people/animal food question, a Dutch friend pointed out to me a couple of years ago (while we were driving through a rural area) that corn grown for animal fodder could be grown on land that would not have been approved for growing produce for human consumption, apparently due to soil contamination of some sort. So that might contribute to some wariness re corn on the cob.

[chefzadi]

I'd be curious to know more about this khobz. The idea of corn bread is quite foreign to the French mind (with its dedication to crusty, springy, light bread), but I came across corn bread in Southern Portugal (Algarve) and I'm wondering whether it may be similar to Khobz, Algarve cuisine having many common points with North African cuisines.

Some preparations are similar if not identical to Portuguese cornbread. Others include a mixture of semolina instead of regular flour.

There is also a cornmeal porridge made from white hominy grits. It's cooked for hours.

[Ptipois]

As for the people/animal food question, a Dutch friend pointed out to me a couple of years ago (while we were driving through a rural area) that corn grown for animal fodder could be grown on land that would not have been approved for growing produce for human consumption, apparently due to soil contamination of some sort. So that might contribute to some wariness re corn on the cob.

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This doesn't really make sense because in rural France, corn-growing regions have known for centuries animal-fodder corn as well as human-food corn, which was widely consumed, though not on the cob. There never was a "wariness" about corn on the cob, it just wasn't common use, that's all. As I wrote before, there's no reason why corn on the cob should be universal.

The fact that your Dutch friend referred to is more, I believe, a modern problem. Fodder corn, that is now grown all over Europe, does exhaust soils and is not suitable for human consumption. It forces growers to rely on more chemical fertilizers, hence making soils poorer and poorer and unfit for other cultures. This is a quite different situation than the traditional one, in regions where people have been growing corn to feed poultry and people in a polycultural context (Landes, Bresse).

[PassionateChefsDie]

Just a little comment I worked with a German Chef and he thought the same about Parsnips, that they where only for animals.

Then he couldn't understand our bread sausages I use to tell him I there's nothing wrong with a bread sausage. Though his homemade ones came in at near on 100% pure fine meat, and I've yet to taste anything similar.

I do believe that the perception of fodder food does leave it's stigma, though writing this I was trying to think wether there was one for the UK? If not why not? I think cultural boundarys and influences play a lot in this subject, and maybe even class.

Stef

[chefzadi]

Just a little comment I worked with a German Chef and he thought the same about Parsnips, that they where only for animals.

Then he couldn't understand our bread sausages    I use to tell him I there's nothing wrong with a bread sausage. Though his homemade ones came in at near on 100% pure fine meat, and I've yet to taste anything similar.

I do believe that the perception of fodder food does leave it's stigma, though writing this I was trying to think wether there was one for the UK? If not why not? I think cultural boundarys and influences play a lot in this subject, and maybe even class.

Stef

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I think it's the non-French in this thread who made the animal fodder or food for just animals comments.

I did point out that it used for making into flour, as well as food for animals. That's NOT the same as saying it's animal fodder.

Ptiopois pointed out all the varieties of ground corn products regions of France have been using for a long time. As well as the popularity canned corn and corn in buffets salads or something.

It's not just a "French thing"

As for cultural boundarys and influences, it was touched on that France doesn't have an indigenous population of Native Americans and Mexicans, France has North Africans instead. I also mentioned that in North Africa it's ground for flour, made into couscous, porridge and breads. But not eaten on the cob.

EDIT: to add 'NOT"

Edited July 5, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

[PassionateChefsDie]

Just a little comment I worked with a German Chef and he thought the same about Parsnips, that they where only for animals.

Stef

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As for cultural boundarys and influences, it was touched on that France doesn't have an indigenous population of Native Americans and Mexicans, France has North Africans instead. I also mentioned that in North Africa it's ground for flour, made into couscous, porridge and breads. But not eaten on the cob.

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You've got me intrigued I'll start a thread about peoples peception of Foods that are Animal fodder, I'm interested to see what cultures and wether all have some people that buy into this.

I use to just smirk at the Chef it amused me that he thought about parsnips and sweetcorn this way, my argument if it tastes good eat it and have to say do like my veggies!

[Bux]

Stereotyping of a culture or a "people" is far eaiser than reaching some understanding of the cultural complexities. It can be dangerous to act on what amounts to such cultural prejudices, but I think we can discuss them here in a friendly and educational manner if we deal with them as casual first impressions. It's also worth noting that even when the stereotype applies to a vast majority of a population there are other factors that will drive changes in the society. If people believe the French are entrenched in their own cuisine, I've usually felt the Spanish are even more so, but a small movement of chefs there has managed to make the country appear as the avant garde in terms of cuisine at the moment. What also may make the French seem resistent to culinary change in some eyes may not be an actual resistance, but merely the outgrowth of a very strong national cuisine that takes what it can use and quickly makes it seem French.

[Adam Balic]

Tiined sweet corn in salads seems ubiquitous in Tuscany, yet the corn on the cob when sold, while being maize, is not particularly sweet and is mostly used for animal food. On the one occasion when I ate fresh corn it was BBQed at a communist fair, I found it un-edible.

My sister-in-law that lives in Tuscany found this lack of fresh sweetcorn to be a problem so she brought back some seeds with her from Australia. Her Italian father-in-law grew the corn for her and they got a very good crop, but none of her Italian friends or relatives would eat it. Far to sweet and 'funny' tasting.

[touaregsand]

I think traditionally in Europe the corn on the cob is probably a starchier and tougher older variety, more suitable for grinding into flours and such. The newer supersweet corns aren't as readily available, except in cans. This seems to be case in other parts of the world. The typical corn in Korea sold by street vendors is boiled or steamed to death. The kernals are big and toothsome. Canned corn is popular there as well. It's only been in the past 6-10 years that supermarkets over there started carrying supersweet corn, husked in cellophane packages. There is a thread on the Japanese love of corn, I haven't read the fascinating thread from beginning to end, but most of it corn I've seen in Japanese dishes is canned.

So it's not a French thing, a North African thing, a Korean thing, or a Japanese thing to resist corn or corn on the cob in particular. Corn is eaten in countries where it's been introduced, sometimes with great gusto, but not in the same ways it's eaten in America. Not surprising since these countries aren't, well, American and very far away to boot with different culinary traditions and eating habits. For instance corn off the cob is difficult to pick up with chopsticks, so it shows up in 'fusiony' salads and snacks in Korea and Japan.

A little history of corn in America.

Corn - From Sweet to Sweeter

There are three types of sweet corn. They are normal sugary (su), sugary enhanced (se) and supersweet (sh2). These types refer to the sugar content and sweet flavor in the kernels when mature. The normal sugary (su) sweet corn will convert kernel sugar to starch immediately after harvest. This means the sweet flavor is rapidly lost. The supersweet or "shrunken two" (sh2) type was discovered in 1950 by Dr. J. R. Laugham, University of Illinois using traditional breeding techniques.

Btw, don't Americans make grits with tougher, starchier corn? Is it fancier to call it a type of polenta? The Portuguese and North Africans were probably making cornbread before the pilgrims landed on Plymouth rock.