Sustainability Luncheon at C

[annanstee]

Hmmm. I can't say I disagree. It would have been nice to have a little more interchange. Honestly though, both the speakers and the food deserved our full attention- so maybe in future we could have speakers first?

[appreciator]

The Sustainability Luncheon at “C” was, in all honesty, one of the best functions/luncheons/events that I’ve ever been to. The food was extraordinary… I agree with Keith Talent (though I can’t believe I missed the opportunity to meet such a legend amongst the egullet glitterati – you were the dude in the shades in the sunshine yellow shirt right? ) regarding the crispy oyster with the shot of GI lager - totally amazing; the slow roasted salmon – never tasted salmon so moist; the sablefish collar –melt-in-your mouth sublime (though personally I found the hazelnut bubble to be a bit surreal - the flavour was good, texture, somewhat unexpected); the seared Kagan bay scallop with roasted pork etc… the stuff of legends; and last but not least, the fromage frais cheesecake with rhubarb salad, praline and organic maple syrup. After the scallop dish, I didn’t think things could get any better, but that cheesecake was certainly worthy.

(Side note: my first visit to "C" certainly not my last)

The speakers were very informative, though I too would have liked to have had a bit more time hearing what they each had to say. A longer discussion time perhaps – maybe next time each one of the “experts" could actually sit at different tables…stand up to present their piece to everyone then proceed to have more “round table” type discussions with the people sitting at each table. Maybe participants could even rotate seating between courses.

The conversation at the table I was at was lively and engaging. I enjoyed meeting some new (to me) EG participants: Sasskitty, Annanstee, Chloe, Zucchini Mama, Angela (whose EG nickname has slipped from my mind) and Bob, whom I don’t think has an EG name… perhaps he lurks: laugh: (hope I didn't miss anyone )

Anyway…a great day… great food, great conversation, great wine, great learning, great company, great weather…what more can you ask for (aside from another word besides “great” ).

My gratitude to all involved: Jamie, Arne, Harry, Leonard, Rob - squared, Tom, Sue, all the speakers, the servers, etc. A brilliant afternoon.

Very much looking forward to the next “sustainable” event.

Though one thing I'll just throw out there. I wonder if there is a way for this type of event to be accessible to people who do not have quite so much discretionary income. Personally, I would be willing to chip in a few more bucks to enable someone who would not otherwise be able to afford an afternoon such as this, an opportunity to attend. Not sure how that would work but just wanted to throw it out there. I don't believe these type of events should be only for the "elite" (well, not that I qualify but I'm sure you all know what I mean).

Edited June 30, 2005 by appreciator (log)

[*Deborah*]

Sarah, I think most of us there would not have been surprised to see a bill for $150 or $200/person for that meal (with that wine!), so I would say it's already pretty heavily subsidized by the host. For which I am grateful.

I'm still dreaming about that pork shoulder...

[appreciator]

Sarah, I think most of us there would not have been surprised to see a bill for $150 or $200/person for that meal (with that wine!), so I would say it's already pretty heavily subsidized by the host. For which I am grateful.

I'm still dreaming about that pork shoulder...

←

Deborah, I think you misunderstood my point. I am not questioning the value of our meal in any way shape or form... would have gladly paid more than the “entry fee” for the scallop dish alone (well, maybe not quite but you get the drift).

However, I do think that there may be (and probably are) a number of EGers out there for whom $40 would simply be too dear. I was merely suggesting that, maybe, we could look at a way of establishing a slush fund of sorts that would enable more of the membership to participate. That’s all.

[Radio7]

Wow. I am in awe.

I'll be coming back home to Van. on a visit this july - I get to see my best friend and everything - for the first time in approx. 7-8 years. Clearly, 'C' should be on my list, though I'm a bit afraid of the cost! lol Those food pics look beyond perfect!

I hope I can get a meet up going, once I have the date I'll have to post. I would so very much like to meet you all, and get some rec's.

[*Deborah*]

Sarah, I think most of us there would not have been surprised to see a bill for $150 or $200/person for that meal (with that wine!), so I would say it's already pretty heavily subsidized by the host. For which I am grateful.

I'm still dreaming about that pork shoulder...

←

Deborah, I think you misunderstood my point. I am not questioning the value of our meal in any way shape or form... would have gladly paid more than the “entry fee” for the scallop dish alone (well, maybe not quite but you get the drift).

However, I do think that there may be (and probably are) a number of EGers out there for whom $40 would simply be too dear. I was merely suggesting that, maybe, we could look at a way of establishing a slush fund of sorts that would enable more of the membership to participate. That’s all.

←

Oh, a slush fund or a kitty. I wonder how we could decide who could attend "on us"? (not being argumentative, just wondering.)

My point (which was not well expressed) is that the restaurants already go out of their way to make these events accessible to as many of us as they can...so I would say that asking them to toss in a freebie is probably asking too much.

[Ducky]

I think that it's high time for us to educate ourselves by studying the base source material (Monterrey Aquarium et al) and then direct others--especially chefs and proprietors--to follow suit, because unfortunately, ignorance about both our own and offshore fisheries runs much deeper than the oceans. And solutions for aquaculture such as the Suzuki Foundation is proposing, certainly seem to make sound sense.

In short, this is not a Birkenstock issue but rather cuts across all political stripes and income brackets. Sustainable food, after all, is what we live for and vice versa again.

←

It would undoubtedly be very useful and interesting if someone would post just what the message or "takeaway" from this lunch was. Anyone?

[Daddy-A]

It would undoubtedly be very useful and interesting if someone would post just what the message or "takeaway" from this lunch was. Anyone?

I think that would depend upon the individual.

From where I sat, the message was pretty clear: What we consume from our oceans has a direct impact on their health. We can't keep harvesting the same types of products in the same way we have been. The oceans can't take it.

The salmon and scallop producers featured at the lunch are two examples of how some planning from the producers end can make the industry sustainable. The Ocean Wise programme is an example of what we can do at the consumers end.

And just to reiterate, if sustainable scallops taste as good as what we had on Saturday, I say bring it on!

A.

[jamiemaw]

I think that it's high time for us to educate ourselves by studying the base source material (Monterrey Aquarium et al) and then direct others--especially chefs and proprietors--to follow suit, because unfortunately, ignorance about both our own and offshore fisheries runs much deeper than the oceans. And solutions for aquaculture such as the Suzuki Foundation is proposing, certainly seem to make sound sense.

In short, this is not a Birkenstock issue but rather cuts across all political stripes and income brackets. Sustainable food, after all, is what we live for and vice versa again.

←

It would undoubtedly be very useful and interesting if someone would post just what the message or "takeaway" from this lunch was. Anyone?

←

Ducky,

Ther was a lot of information given during the course of the afternoon. When Andy Lynes finishes his Vancouver-Okanagan-Harrison/Aggasiz-Vancouver Island tour, he and I are going to attempt to collate that information as it relates to sustainabilty (and parallel aquaculture) issues and post it here. In the interim, a good starting point for you would be to take a look (if you haven't already) at the Ocean Wise, Suzuki and Monterrey Aquarium websites.

Cheers,

Jamie

[Zucchini Mama]

Generally, what I came away with was how important the stewardship of our food system is right now. There are many passionate people who are developing responsible stewardship of our food resources, but on the other hand there are many more who are just trying to make a quick buck. There's also the people who are just trying to survive by farming in any way they can.

As consumers we need to vote for responsible stewardship by where we spend our money and by voting for responsible and enlightened politicians.

I see the need for a conference where the land and water-based issues are discussed and some kind of umbrella organization is formed in order to strengthen the ties among all the stewardship-oriented organizations because the issues involved are all interconnected.

In terms of accessibility, I think a potluck event, say on UBC farm would be a fun and inclusive eGullet event. I'm sure the people there would be into talking about some of the issues they're dealing with.

Zuke

Edited June 30, 2005 by Zucchini Mama (log)

[annanstee]

Sarah, I think most of us there would not have been surprised to see a bill for $150 or $200/person for that meal (with that wine!), so I would say it's already pretty heavily subsidized by the host. For which I am grateful.

I'm still dreaming about that pork shoulder...

←

Deborah, I think you misunderstood my point. I am not questioning the value of our meal in any way shape or form... would have gladly paid more than the “entry fee” for the scallop dish alone (well, maybe not quite but you get the drift).

However, I do think that there may be (and probably are) a number of EGers out there for whom $40 would simply be too dear. I was merely suggesting that, maybe, we could look at a way of establishing a slush fund of sorts that would enable more of the membership to participate. That’s all.

←

Oh, a slush fund or a kitty. I wonder how we could decide who could attend "on us"? (not being argumentative, just wondering.)

My point (which was not well expressed) is that the restaurants already go out of their way to make these events accessible to as many of us as they can...so I would say that asking them to toss in a freebie is probably asking too much.

←

I think this is a very interesting idea.

Andy Lynes noted that this is a watershed event for Egullet. If the Society as a whole moves in part into expanding its role in educating on these issues, something like this might work.

As an example,Hollyhock is a retreat on Cortes Island which regulary hosts forums on Sustainable Business among many other things. The Hollyhock Leadership Institute is a nonprofit that provides support and training for those working toward sustainability. Part of their mandate is to provide scholarships to attend courses at Hollyhock, although they are not part of Hollyhock.

(Disclosure: I used to work at a foundation somewhat affiliated with the above.)

Anyway, as E-Gullet evolves, some kind of small subsidy pool might work for educational events like these. It need not involve the hosting restaurants providing a freebee.

Something that bears discussion anyway.

Edited June 30, 2005 by annanstee (log)

[Ducky]

Ducky,

Ther was a lot of information given during the course of the afternoon. When Andy Lynes finishes his Vancouver-Okanagan-Harrison/Aggasiz-Vancouver Island tour, he and I are going to attempt to collate that information as it relates to sustainabilty (and parallel aquaculture) issues and post it here. In the interim, a good starting point for you would be to take a look (if you haven't already) at the Ocean Wise, Suzuki and Monterrey Aquarium websites.

Cheers,

Jamie

←

That's great Jamie...I look forward to this.

Given the various threads that gave rise to the lunch, I was rather expecting a call to arms of some sort to follow. An EG boycott of shops selling seabass, or perhaps even a course in mild eco-terrorism. Or at the very least a Piscatory Manifesto of do's and dont's that addresses the various issues of sustainability (and political correctness about sustainability) that had previously been debated here.

Sorry I had to miss this. It sounds like it was a brilliant lunch.

[Andy Lynes]

I will be looking into the possibility of re-creating the event in London as soon as I get back home.

←

I have made a little progress on this already in terms of interest from the Vancouver organisations in having some input in such an event. This thread will be very useful indeed in explaining the idea to interested parties in London so thank you all for your input and keep it coming.

[Chocoholic]

I wasn't able to attend this event (still sad about that) but I was inspired by the slow-cooked salmon. I gave that a try last night with a piece of wild spring salmon. Rubbed it with EVOO, a bit of salt and pepper and cooked it at 190F for about 30 minutes. The piece was quite thick (almost 2 inches) so I cooked it a bit longer than the 20-25 minutes mentioned in this thread. The result was impressive, soft, succulent and juicy, definitely a success.

I served it on some organic greens with a blueberry dressing and fresh blueberries. I am addicted to these little bursts of goodness and the salad went well with the fish.

Worth a try if you haven't done so already!

[Andy Lynes]

I'm going to start posting the speeches made at the luncheon. Please bear in mind that they are verbatim transcriptions of off-the-cuff speeches made in a relaxed, casual environment. They will not be edited in anyway due to restrictions on my time, but I think they stand by themselves and give a good flavour of the event for those not able to attend, and those that were there but couldn't hear!

[Andy Lynes]

Dr. John Nightingale - President, Vancouver Aquarium Marine Science Centre

"Seafood is not only a hallmark of a coastal city like Vancouver, but it’s really good for us; proteins, amino acids fatty acids. Most seafoods are great. If there was more seafood for people around the world to eat, people in general would be better off. The problem is that in the oceans of the world we have over harvested a good many of the stocks of the different species. So when you think about seafood there are species of fish – blue fin tuna is an example – there are blue fin tuna all over the world but they don’t swim from America to Samoa to Iceland, they live in different stocks. As scientists have learned more in the last few years, they are more and more concerned about these stock units or giant extended families where there is interbreeding and interaction.

A paper by a Canadian scientist Ran Myers a couple of years ago set the world on its ear because it demonstrated that 90% of the animals over 6 feet long in the ocean are gone. They’ve been caught and harvested and that includes whales, big fish like the marlin and the sail fish, big sharks, they’re gone. So clearly we’re changing the balance of the ocean's eco system.

That used to something that just a bunch of biologists cared about. But one of the things that we know through our work at the Vancouver Aquarium is that a lot of ordinary people care too. None of us wants to feel like we’re part of the problem we’d all like to be part of the solution. Happily there is an answer, and that is just paying a little more attention to where our seafood comes from and learning enough that we can tell with some help from organisations and maybe even the eGullet.org website, that we can begin to tell what is sustainable and what isn’t, what is a little more sustainable or a little less sustainable.

So it’s not an environmental harangue, it's not a tree hugger thing at all, its just natural human inclination to want to not be part of the problem. From our point of view, restaurants like C who were a pioneer in starting a focus on sustainable seafood and actually sustainable food and practices in general, that’s terrific. So we throw out weight behind those kinds of efforts.

Over the last several years, we started with Monterey Bay Aquarium’s Seafood Watch programme which is one of two programmes the other being the (?) Institute in the US started focusing on sustainable seafood. Well, we evolved from there and Jason will tell you about Oceanwise which is a programme for restaurants.

The number is somewhere between 60 and 70% of the seafood, certainly over 50% of the seafood gets consumed in restaurants in the lower mainland. So while we all take it home and cook, a lot of people who enjoy food also enjoy eating out. There are a lot of restaurants now hopping aboard and they’re doing the new work of thinking about where does our food come from, not being dogmatic or didactic or hard nosed about it or preachy, but just trying to do a little better. Our applause goes to Robert and Carrie and the work that C has done as a pioneer, but there’s a place there for every one of us and that’s really the thrust of what the Aquarium is working on.

Everybody can get involved whether it’s when were dining out or in our own kitchen. Its not hard work, what is hard is getting the information. So I think that’s why a lunch like today is great for staring to spread the focus of people thinking about it a little bit and if we can find a channel like eGullet.org that’s great as a way of disseminating some information about stocks and species or where do things stand. Often the answer is “we’re not quite sure” but at least asking the question helps and we’ll try and follow up and provide as much information as we can. From the Aquarium’s point of view, we’re delighted to be here today for us it’s a major new connection into people who enjoy food."

[annanstee]

One thing I would have liked to ask John Nightingale about is the fish that they use for Salmonchanted Evening, which is a major fundraiser for the Aquarium. They use (or used to use) farmed salmon-I assume from enclosed pens. I would have liked to hear more about this sustainable alternative provider that they use. I reject all farmed salmon in the stores, but if I knew it came from a "new era" farm, I might think again.

[Andy Lynes]

Jason Boyce - Program Coordinator, Ocean Wise, Vancouver Aquarium Marine Science Centre

I've been working at the aquarium for about 4 years now on conservation programmes. When the opportunity arose 6 months ago to head up a new programme called Oceanwise I jumped at the chance. Oceanwise really came from our involvement with the Monterey Bay Aquarium with their seafood watch programme which we’ve been involved with for around four years as well. Though the years we've been working with them and our involvement here with C restaurant, the founding sponsor for Oceanwise, with the work they've done with sustainable fisheries there was a natural linkage to put together the information about sustainable fisheries and how you can find the market and suppliers for it with all of the restaurants in Vancouver as a seafood city.

The Oceanwise programme is focused on giving consumers the information they need to identify restaurants that serve sustainable seafood choices and then working with those restaurants to give them the resources and information they need to find those choices.

We do it on a restaurant by restaurant basis and a seafood case by case basis. We have 16 restaurants currently signed up across Vancouver and that’s just what we announced in April. C has done a lot of work with us to spread that knowledge around the community of chefs and restaurants.

We focus on four aspects of sustainability: we want to make sure that the seafood that is stocked is abundant and resilient; that it's well managed; that the harvesting of the seafood has minimal impact on habitat; that there is minimal bycatch.

We look at seafood on a case by case basis because it's really difficult to make generalisations about sustainability across the board, which is something I know for consumers is difficult because you'll go out there and say, "I know I want to find a sustainable seafood product that is caught this way and caught in this location but who knows the answer to that question? And who do I go to ask?", and that is the need that Oceanwise is trying to address.

So you'll server will know because we'll do information sessions and training with the restaurant staff and there's an Oceanwise logo beside those options that fit that sustainable seafood mentality. (Holds up Oceanwise card) This is the rack card that has not only a list of the restaurants that are currently on board but a brief description of the programme as well and also a website to go to find out more information.

It's good to come here to C restaurant today especially with all the work we've been doing together and to have a full menu that is all sustainable and that is something that we work to with each of the restaurant partners. Some restaurants will go all the way some will do as much as they can, but you'll always know what options you can buy because of that logo. So we make the option easy and its all about personal options really and personal choices.

Q&A

(The first question asked and Jason's reply were not audible on the recording)

Question from Andy Lynes

You've got 16 restaurants signed up, that quite a small proportion of the total number of restaurants in the city. Do some restaurants have objections to the scheme, or do they not understand what it is?

Answer:

It's not something that can happen overnight. We announced the programme here at C restaurant in January and within 2 months we had 16 restaurants on board and those were the initial adopters that jumped on real quick and then as the news gets out in the media and as we do publicity we have another 8 signed up. Everyone we talked to had no objections to wanting to do it, it's just finding the right time and taking the process slowly so that its effective and viable for restaurants.

AL – So you anticipate it's just a matter of time…

Jason – It's going to snowball.

Q by unknown person – Who funds the project and is there a cost to each restaurants?

Jason - There is no cost to the restaurants involved. We are funded by a foundation called The Packard Foundation which does a lot of funding for environmental good around the world. And they provided funding to the Oceanwise programme.

[Andy Lynes]

My apologies to Jason for what now reads in black and white as rather a rude question. Just in case my question is misinterpreted - it was not my intention to criticise the efforts of the Oceanwise team. Its obvious that Jason and his team have done incredibly well to get so many establishments on board in such a short period of time. I can guess that the programme represents a significant committment in time and effort from both the Aquarium and the restaurants involved, and in particular C, who are sharing their expertise with others. It's a great model and one other cities should follow. Next stop London?

[jamiemaw]

My apologies to Jason for what now reads in black and white as rather a rude question. Just in case my question is misinterpreted - it was not my intention to criticise the efforts of the Oceanwise team. Its obvious that Jason and his team have done incredibly well to get so many establishments on board in such a short period of time. I can guess that the programme represents a significant committment in time and effort from both the Aquarium and the restaurants involved, and in particular C, who are sharing their expertise with others. It's a great model and one other cities should follow. Next stop London?

←

Andy,

Jason will be making his case tomorrow evening to a meeting of the Chefs' Table Society of BC being convened at DuBrulle for veteran and new members. I expect the number of members will triple overnight. Further, I've mentioned the Ocean Wise program in an article on sustainability that will be published in several weeks. By the fall, I suspect, not having an Ocean Wise logo on a menu--especially for any self-respecting seafood houses--will be a black mark. I also suspect that it will be more difficult to bring Japanese (blue fin) and Chinese (snapper, ling cod) restaurants on board, so to speak.

[Andy Lynes]

Heather Deal - Suzuki Foundation

"We are one of the higher profile not for profit environmental organisations here I'm sure you've heard of us, and we're doing a lot of work right now under the concept that its easy to say no, its much harder to find things to say yes to. We're starting to find things that we can say yes to and embrace. I'd very much like to congratulate C for having a programme we can embrace and whole heartedly support and Jamie for his initiative here today. We've got a programme called Sustainability Within a Generation which were working with the government to promote and it has 9 suggestions for a sustainable society including produce healthy food. So I’ll talk a little but about our food programmes. I've got three things I'll mention briefly, two of them are very good news stories and one of them is a note of precaution.

In terms of aqua culture now you’ve all heard us address farmed salmon in the media and we realised we were talking a lot about the things we don’t want to see and that we should start talking about what we do want to see. We’re now working with a large coalition of conservationalists and we've come up with a plan and were working with the government to implement it. That plan is to have in place by 2010 two commercial scale closed containment fish farms. Now this means in the ocean salmon being grown in a closed container, a closed tank of some kind. And there are different types of floating concrete tanks and big sacks that sit out in the ocean. There are many technologies available to us. And so we're working with government to provide tax incentives, we have the economists working with us to establish if there is a significant market and were talking with industry. It's been very positively received and in fact we think that the US market for fresh fish is significant enough that the export market will support this.

We also have a brochure called Seas of Change which has 10 recommendations for sustainable fishing practices.

We're working with the Aquarium on something called Seafood Savvy. We recognise there are many different stages as was mentioned at which people make choices about seafood. There’s how you harvest it, how you wholesale it, there’s retail, there’s restaurants and there’s consumer choices. So were working with partners like the Aquarium and other partners to come up with a full chain of ownership from birth to gullet. And we're going to be producing, this has been a long time coming because we've all had to look at all the different seafood cards and all the different programmes and agree that we're using the same criteria for saying something is sustainable. We're getting there, it took a little while but we're there now and shortly we’ll be publishing what’s called Sustainable pack (?) which tries to address the entire lifecycle of products. It more intensive than those little cards, it gives a lot more information, it has technical information on the back and a 1 to 5 star system on the front. So well be launching that working with C and the Aquarium and others in the future.

My third issue is sustainable shellfish. You'll be hearing from a scallop farmer in a moment, you've heard a lot about shellfish being the next sustainable seafood industry in fact helping people get jobs where logging and fishing and other industries aren’t providing the jobs they'd hoped they would or that they used to. So we set out to define best practices for shellfish aquaculture in terms of sustainability. What we found was that we couldn’t define best practice because the research simply hasn’t been done. So were working closely with several fisheries with the industry and ? University college to define what research needs to be done and help set priorities that we thing are important for the sustainability of this industry.

We have concerns about 3 practices in particular:

Beach culture of clams, where they lay them out on beaches and lay nets over them to prevent birds eating them. There are huge, huge areas now under nets and that and that’s one of the primary migratory bird routes for the Pacific Northwest Highway. We have concerns about this we feel it should not be encouraged. We’ve done the research to see in fact if it is a problem. If it isn’t, fill your boots.

We also have concerns about some of the down line operations. The others ways that affects the scallops and oysters are grown is hanging in the deep ocean. Probably very low impact, but in some areas like Birch (?) Harbour they’re in a closed area and you put a lot of these rafts in with the oysters hanging below them and they start to decrease the natural nutrient levels within that area. We don’t if that’s a problem and we don’t know about the effects on the ? at the bottom of the ocean beneath it. Those things we are currently looking into, research hasn’t been done. They’ve done carrying capacity studies to see how many oysters they could grow, but they haven’t done the sister studies that show the impact on the other parts of the eco system.

The third issue is that almost every single commercial shellfish in this province is an alien species. There’s some work into geoduck right now but all of our oysters, all of our clams, mussels and scallops are alien species, some of which have been found to be highly invasive in other countries. There are reasons for that, just as there are reasons that we grow cows instead of deer - they grow faster they grow bigger and they are cheaper to grow. But we think there is room there for leadership in trying to return this industry to growing native oysters.

We have produced a guide called sustainable shellfish but because the research hasn’t been done this is largely a precautionary message at this time."

Q&A

Jamie Maw – Something that was of some discussion on out forums was the invasiveness of parasites in fish aquaculture industries. The report that was sponsored out of the University of Alberta but was actually a UBC (?) Professor who was one of the authors. Could you comment on the Suzuki Foundations approach to that and your opinion of the severity of the problem?

Heather Deal - There are three primary reasons for promoting close containment and you’ve identified one; parasites, disease and waste, a fourth is escape of course. In terms of the parasites there’s been a lot of research done but the peer reviewed research have all said that lice are a serious, serious problem. As you know lice are found naturally on wild fish you expect them there. In fact, if you are fishing at the mouth of a river, if you can find lice on it it’s a sign that it’s a good fresh fish, it’s just come in from the ocean, because in fresh water those lice die. Unfortunately when you farm fish they never go into fresh water and the lice never die, so there’s a year round source for these parasites in a huge bag of very dense amounts of fish and we get very large amounts of lice that never go through their natural life cycle.

And as a result, when young fish are coming past these farms, normally they would not be running into lice but they are because of the farms. There is just no question, there is a whole lot of data that shows that the fish that come through those areas of the farms are picking up those lice and not surviving because young fish don’t hold 7-10 lice each and survive. So in addition to pushing for the closed containment that will eliminate that problem, we also feel that sighting of existing farms is something that can be dealt with right now. And I actually wanted to mention one positive thing with closed containment – you use less food you have less chance of having to add antibiotics or sea lice killer because you’re not exposed to outside diseases. And what happens is that you get waste that is quite pure. I’m a gardener and fish compost is like gold for gardeners and I think there is a huge opportunity to use the waste on the farms as an economic driver.

Jamie Maw – They’re growing Northern (?) Coho in Aggasiz British Columbia in a land-based contained environment and they’re using the waste nutrient to (?) Wasabi. Who would have thought?

Heather's response to a question not picked up on the tape:

There are consumer cards which we think are wonderful and we’ve worked with Monterey, the Aquarium , Sierra club does one as well, they’re all overlapping here and there . But we also think there needs to be a choice at the wholesale level as well that’s one of the largest gaps. If we get enough market pressure from this end then that’ll trickle back and they’ll stop, you know purchasing things wholesale that they can’t sell at the retail level. But we think that in the stores the restaurants at the wholesale level at the consumer level and also at the harvest level, put that market pressure in there, that market awareness filtering throughout the system, then the industry will do it for itself.

[jamiemaw]

Andy,

Many thanks for transcribing the tapes and getting these important presentations on the record.

Jamie

[Andy Lynes]

Apologies for the gaps and missed or mis-heard words. Some of the Q&A have not recorded because the person asking the question was just too far from the recorder for their voice to be picked up, and then the speaker moved away from the recorder to answer the question. It wouldn't really have been appropriate for me to be running around the patio to make sure I picked up everything, especially as I would have got in the way of food and drink being served.

[Daddy-A]

It wouldn't really have been appropriate for me to be running around the patio to make sure I picked up everything, especially as I would have got in the way of food and drink being served.

You've obviously never been to a Vancouver/Western Canada Burger Club dinner!

Thanks again for all your efforts Andy.

A.

[Andy Lynes]

Robert Clark - Executive Chef, C, Raincity Grill

From a chef’s point of view, sustainability and quality are directly related. I always use the example of the wine industry; there are certain rules and regulations for any wine producing region about how much of a particular wine they can produce off of x amount of hectares. The reason for that is the more you produce the quality’s going to go down. It’s no different in seafood. Our salmon, Fred and Linda probably catch half of what the fishing boat (?) but they handle every one. They bring it on board alive, they put in the holds in their tank until all the lactic acid and adrenaline leaves the system, and then they slaughter it just like you would a calf. You make sure its as calm as possible, there’s a lot of reasons for that. Very few fish are harvested in that manner, but it gives us the quality. The shelf life in our fridge is phenomenal because of that. That’s our take on it, sustainability is so important.

When we first started talking to the Vancouver Aquarium it was kind of like “Well, why are we together?” Why I love the Aquarium and the Suzuki foundation, why I like any organisation that is on board with this that has no connection. More people aren’t going to go the Vancouver Aquarium because of the Oceanwise programme; there’s nothing in it for them. The Suzuki foundation isn’t going to become a multi billionaire million international corporation because they’re concerned about where our food comes from.

The fish industry says “we’re getting better, we’re getting better” and it is getting better but my first question is, “If the Suzuki foundation weren’t nipping at your heels, would you be getting better? Or would business just be as usual?” The truth is, humans are all the same, and we’re going to take the easiest route every time we can. Especially if at the end the big dollars are there. Sustainability doesn’t have to be more expensive. I argue with people all the time. They say, “Well you’re the chef at C restaurant and a main course costs over 30 bucks, you can afford to use sustainably harvested seafood. The fact of the matter is that except for these scallops (which we lose money on!), all our sustainable seafood is no more expensive per pound than buying crap. And actually pound for pound it’s actually cheaper because nothing gets thrown away.

When I arrived here in Vancouver 12 -15 years ago, I was like, I want to be close to fresh seafood. I grew up on the eastern coast of Canada so I’m very accustomed to fresh seafood. When I got here the first restaurant I was in, very high end restaurant with awards, with the fish coming through the door the question was, “Is this good enough to serve tonight?” Not even is this good enough to serve tomorrow. And that question had to go through you r mind for every fish that came through the door. Now that’s sad – its actually stupid. Especially being on the water on the West coast in Vancouver ? We should have access to the freshest and highest quality seafood available

And its out there and we have little operations that are producing that, but their voice cannot be heard, because of the larger picture of big business. And I love big business, they made my shoes, they made my pants; but for us, for restaurants and people that really care about food, to get to the small person you will be rewarded, because they care more passionately about what they’re producing then most chefs care about what they’re cooking.

It took a lot of trial and error for us to get to where we are with our menu but something like the Oceanwise programme now, what it’s going to do is to show the way for other restaurants that it is economically viable to make the right choices. And at the end of the day, it’s really about asking questions. Being in a democracy, if everybody says, “You know what, I’m really not interested in sustainably harvested seafood and I really don’t care that there’s going to be a spot prawn tomorrow”; if we decide that then that’s democracy, but the important thing is that you know when you’re making choices, that’s going to be the end result.