THE BEST: Pastries in New York

mascarpone · June 8, 2005

What was the name of the dessert you had at that Middle Eastern restaurant in Brooklyn that made your date somewhat ecstatic. I seem to recall the place was reviewed in the Times and it was not around Atlantic Avenue but was way out in Bay Ridge.

Do they have that at Damascus? Is it as good as at the restaurant?

Was the dessert called Knafe?

I also like the Baklava at Mamoun's Falafel Restaurant

Middle Eastern

119 MacDougal St, New York 10012

Btwn Bleecker & W 3rd St

Phone: 212-674-8685

Keep in mind that this place is a closet, extremely small.

Pan · June 8, 2005

What was the name of the dessert you had at that Middle Eastern restaurant in Brooklyn that made your date somewhat ecstatic. I seem to recall the place was reviewed in the Times and it was not around Atlantic Avenue but was way out in Bay Ridge.[...]
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You have a good memory. The name of the place is Tanoreen. And yes, the dessert that made my dining partner ecstatic was knafeh (their spelling).

Do they have that at Damascus? Is it as good as at the restaurant?
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Knafe is a standard dessert at Middle Eastern bakeries, and I'm just about positive I've seen at least one version of it for sale at Damascus. The thing that was most unusual to me about Tanoreen's rendition is that it was hardly sweet. I really can't compare Tanoreen and Damascus, because Tanoreen is a full-service restaurant and one serving more unusual foodstuffs (for New York, anyway). As a bakery, Damascus is quite good. As I note below, it's a good side trip if you're going to Sahadi's or the Yemen Cafe & Restaurant across the street.

I just did a search and found an old thread about Damascus Bread & Pastries. In the first post of the thread, I describe the thing I've liked most there:

[...]I had a nice, hearty early dinner at the Yemeni restaurant across the street, and followed it with a trip to this great bakery. I bought a little date cake (sorry, I forget the Arabic name), and I loved it so much that I immediately went back with my partially-eaten cake and bought 4 more. It had some rose water in it and some wonderful combination of spices. If you're in the area, you really owe it to yourself to give this place a try. It's just about right next to Sahadi's.
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David McDuff · June 8, 2005

Payard at 74th and Lexington. The bistro in the back is good but the real artistry here is in the pastries and chocolates, for sale to carry-out or to indulge in at the bar or in the cafe seating area up front. The place has a great reputation and the staff know it -- they can sometimes be a bit "oh so very...". Don't let that stop you. It's worth many visits.
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Have you been recently? I stopped going there after I detected a sharp decline in the quality of the pastries a few years ago.
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Not being a native or resident New Yorker, I only get to Payard two or three times a year. That said, I've been going for several years and have never been disappointed by any of the pastries or other confections.

mascarpone · June 8, 2005

Although not exactly a baked item, I will mention the budino di castagne con salsa cocciolata (or was it hazelnut ?) at:

Gnocco

Cucina & Tradizione

Italian

337 E 10th St, New York 10009

Btwn Ave A & Ave B

Phone: 212-677-1913

Fax: 212-477-7610

(Perhaps call ahead to check if they still serve this item.)

Edited June 8, 2005 by mascarpone (log)

zeitoun · June 8, 2005

Knafe is a standard dessert at Middle Eastern bakeries, and I'm just about positive I've seen at least one version of it for sale at Damascus.
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Just a quick note that if you like Knafe there is a Jordanian bakery on Steinway Street in Astoria called Laziza that makes an excellent rendition of it. They also make excellent baklava, mamoul, ghraibe etc..

The bakery was featured in this Newsday article last year.

mascarpone · June 8, 2005

Wow, great article. Thanks for the tip on this place.

Luna Calvados · June 8, 2005

I, too, second Payard Patisserie ( website at http://www.payard.com/) at 1032 Lexington Avenue, but would pass on Fauchon. However, my favorite French pastries--mostly chocolate, of course--are found at La Maison du Chocolat (website at http://www.lamaisonduchocolat.com/) at 1018 Madison Avenue (between 78th & 79th Streets). LMdC has a small selection of delicacies, including items such as eclairs, lemon pound cake, macarons, etc., which are displayed in the front window and can be eaten in the back room with a chocolate drink or taken away.

mpav · June 8, 2005

I would confirm all those who have mentioned Payard. If you like Italian try Veniero's on 11th between 1st & 2nd. Or is it 2nd & 3rd? I don't really like Italian pastries, but when I pass by I must bring home a few pignoli cookies and a cannoli or two.

I don't know of any pastries I'd spend the calories on in GCT; ditto The Little Pie Company or the Doughnut Plant.

Pan · June 8, 2005

I would confirm all those who have mentioned Payard. If you like Italian try Veniero's on 11th between 1st & 2nd. Or is it 2nd & 3rd?[...]
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It's 1st and 2nd, and I think it's fine but not exceptional. I haven't checked out DeRoberti's for a long time. Truth be told, it's been some time since I've been to Veniero's, too, even though I live about 4 blocks away.

mascarpone · June 9, 2005

Although both are good, I prefer the fruit tarts at Cafe Bruno to those at Veniero's. The crust of the tarts at the later are the hard-as-steel fork bender kind that are not to infrequently flung across the dinning room by accident in an effort to cut a off a bite size portion.

ludja · June 9, 2005

Has anyone been here? I've never been there but wonder if it is worth checking out sometime for the pastries or cakes. I gather it's an institution of sorts but not sure if that is based more nostalgia.

Hungarian Pastry Shop

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1030 Amsterdam Ave Manhattan

Phone: 212-866-4230

Hours:

Mon-Sat 8am - 11:30pm

Sun 8:30am - 10:30pm

"Located near Columbia University, the Hungarian Pastry Shop is a comfortable place to enjoy some unique desserts. You'll find Rigo Janci (a chocolate mousse Hungarian-style), Dobos Torte (a multi-layered yellow cake and chocolate buttercream torte on layer of caramel), sacher torte, linzer torte, and a traditional Black Forest cake, among the offerings. Don't forget to try the coffee. "

Todd36 · June 9, 2005

Hungarian Pastry Shop is not worth a trip I think, it's a local place.

Bruno Bakery is fine, but not that good and not that special. I don't think there realy is a good Italian pastry bakery in Manhattan.

La Maison du Chocolat is good but the selection of pastry is small.

Damascus Bread & Pastries is good, above average for that sort of thing, but not worth a long trip, its not that much better than average.

bergerka · June 9, 2005

Has anyone been here? I've never been there but wonder if it is worth checking out sometime for the pastries or cakes. I gather it's an institution of sorts but not sure if that is based more nostalgia.
Hungarian Pastry Shop
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1030 Amsterdam Ave Manhattan
Phone: 212-866-4230
Hours:
Mon-Sat 8am - 11:30pm
Sun 8:30am - 10:30pm
"Located near Columbia University, the Hungarian Pastry Shop is a comfortable place to enjoy some unique desserts. You'll find Rigo Janci (a chocolate mousse Hungarian-style), Dobos Torte (a multi-layered yellow cake and chocolate buttercream torte on layer of caramel), sacher torte, linzer torte, and a traditional Black Forest cake, among the offerings. Don't forget to try the coffee. "
←

I would disagree with Todd36 (that's ok, I disagree with him about the Silver Moon, too...I frequently go out of my way to stop there) and say that the Hungarian Pastry Shop IS worth a pilgrimage, if only to eat some unusual (and delicious, did I mention that?) pastries while looking over at St. John the Divine and enjoying the bustling, college-town atmosphere.

K

Pan · June 9, 2005

[...]Damascus Bread & Pastries is good, above average for that sort of thing, but not worth a long trip, its not that much better than average.
←

I agree with your assessment (good, above average) and that it's probably not worth a long trip by itself, only in combination with a trip to Sahadi's or/and some other place(s) on Atlantic Av., but I don't know what kind of average place has those date cakes. They just aren't common in New York, are they?

My opinion is colored partly by the fact that whereas I've been to Naples (Italy, not Florida) twice and therefore know what real Neapolitan pastries are like (and they're way, way better than Veniero's), I have spent very little time in the Middle East and have never been to Syria (I was in Israel for one week in 1977 and unfortunately had a stomach virus for part of that trip but not before having some delicious Arab pastries in Akko/Acre). However, I spent parts of two summers in Nice, which has a large population of Jews and Muslims from Tunisia and excellent Tunisian bakeries. I love the Tunisian pastries with date or fig paste and wish I knew where there might be a Tunisian bakery in New York.

I've also been to Hungary, and never found the aforementioned Hungarian bakery that great even way back when it started as a sideline to the now long-closed Green Tree (and long before my trip to Budapest). I haven't been there in years, though.

Maybe we should have a thread about how visiting a country or region can make a person jaded in the presence of comparatively colorless renditions of those cuisines elsewhere.

Edited June 10, 2005 by Pan (log)

zeitoun · June 9, 2005

[...]Damascus Bread & Pastries is good, above average for that sort of thing, but not worth a long trip, its not that much better than average.
←
I agree with your assessment (good, above average) and that it's probably not worth a long trip by itself, only in combination with a trip to Sahadi's or/and some other place(s) on Atlantic Av., but I don't know what kind of average place has those date cakes. They just aren't common in New York, are they?
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The date cakes (mamoul tamr) you are referring to are available in the ME pastry shop i mentionned upthread. They also make them daily with pistacchio or almond filling. They are in my opinion some of the best in NY.

mascarpone · June 10, 2005

Ahh yes i have seen her online.. She is in charge of the burger club.. I would love a list of potential pies as well as how far i would have to go for them.. I remember someone selling them on the street on the upper west side on this board.. I think it might have been her..
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Elyse specializes in Pecan Pie. That is my girlfriend's favorite and so I get it once a year for her b-day. Elyse can probably bake most anything I would think, although I have only ordered Pecan Pie in the past. She is in the 80's on Riverside Drive.

Edited June 10, 2005 by mascarpone (log)

Todd36 · June 10, 2005

Has anyone been here? I've never been there but wonder if it is worth checking out sometime for the pastries or cakes. I gather it's an institution of sorts but not sure if that is based more nostalgia.
Hungarian Pastry Shop
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1030 Amsterdam Ave Manhattan
Phone: 212-866-4230
Hours:
Mon-Sat 8am - 11:30pm
Sun 8:30am - 10:30pm
"Located near Columbia University, the Hungarian Pastry Shop is a comfortable place to enjoy some unique desserts. You'll find Rigo Janci (a chocolate mousse Hungarian-style), Dobos Torte (a multi-layered yellow cake and chocolate buttercream torte on layer of caramel), sacher torte, linzer torte, and a traditional Black Forest cake, among the offerings. Don't forget to try the coffee. "
←
I would disagree with Todd36 (that's ok, I disagree with him about the Silver Moon, too...I frequently go out of my way to stop there) and say that the Hungarian Pastry Shop IS worth a pilgrimage, if only to eat some unusual (and delicious, did I mention that?) pastries while looking over at St. John the Divine and enjoying the bustling, college-town atmosphere.
K
←

Taste is of course a matter of individuals.

If you're looking for Hungarian type things like Dobos, you're much better off at Cafe Sabreky's in the Neue Gallary. Hungarian Pastry shop is very standard, right down to the giant cans of pre-made fruit fillings (not even Hero brand) visible in their kitchen as you walk by. Silver Moon is better than that, but I think a number of bakeries are better, Financier on Stone Street for example.

The US really isn't a fine pastry kind of place. I think a strong bakery in Paris blows away anything in New York. The best baked goods I've ever had in NYC were by far at ADNY. On the other hand, I didn't really like the Sachertorte when I was at the Hotel Sacher in Vienna, but that was a long time ago and perhaps my taste buds are more refined.

And you thought I only babeled about Japanese restaurants....

mdhl · June 10, 2005

city bakery (18th st btwn 5th + 6th).

not fancy or frou frou, just plain awesome.

every one of their breakfast pastries is done perfectly.

mascarpone · June 10, 2005

Has anyone been here? I've never been there but wonder if it is worth checking out sometime for the pastries or cakes. I gather it's an institution of sorts but not sure if that is based more nostalgia.
Hungarian Pastry Shop
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1030 Amsterdam Ave Manhattan
Phone: 212-866-4230
Hours:
Mon-Sat 8am - 11:30pm
Sun 8:30am - 10:30pm
"Located near Columbia University, the Hungarian Pastry Shop is a comfortable place to enjoy some unique desserts. You'll find Rigo Janci (a chocolate mousse Hungarian-style), Dobos Torte (a multi-layered yellow cake and chocolate buttercream torte on layer of caramel), sacher torte, linzer torte, and a traditional Black Forest cake, among the offerings. Don't forget to try the coffee. "
←
I would disagree with Todd36 (that's ok, I disagree with him about the Silver Moon, too...I frequently go out of my way to stop there) and say that the Hungarian Pastry Shop IS worth a pilgrimage, if only to eat some unusual (and delicious, did I mention that?) pastries while looking over at St. John the Divine and enjoying the bustling, college-town atmosphere.
K
←
Taste is of course a matter of individuals.
If you're looking for Hungarian type things like Dobos, you're much better off at Cafe Sabreky's in the Neue Gallary. Hungarian Pastry shop is very standard, right down to the giant cans of pre-made fruit fillings (not even Hero brand) visible in their kitchen as you walk by. Silver Moon is better than that, but I think a number of bakeries are better, Financier on Stone Street for example.
The US really isn't a fine pastry kind of place. I think a strong bakery in Paris blows away anything in New York. The best baked goods I've ever had in NYC were by far at ADNY. On the other hand, I didn't really like the Sachertorte when I was at the Hotel Sacher in Vienna, but that was a long time ago and perhaps my taste buds are more refined.
And you thought I only babeled about Japanese restaurants....
←

That is because the Hotel Sacher is a tourist trap, their Sachertorte is the tourist bait. :biggrin:

Megan Blocker · June 10, 2005

I think Silver Moon is good...more for their brioche and bread than for their sweets, though. I used to go there most weekends when I lived on the Upper West Side.

I would come out in strong favor of Payard and La Maison du Chocolat. I'm also a newly-created fan of Lady M, on 78th just west of Madison. Amanda Hesser wrote about their Mille Crepes cake a few weeks ago in the Times Magazine, and it is truly delicious. Their other pastries are quite good as well. You may have to wait a bit for a table, but the excellent capuccino is worth it.

VivreManger · June 14, 2005

Poseidon Bakery, 629 Ninth Avenue 10036-3721 (44th West Side), NY, 212-757-6173

http://www.wheresyourhead.com/poseidon/pt.html, 9 until 7:00 PM

Should be added to the options.

A few weeks ago, I tried their:

Spanakopita - Spinach pie with feta cheese.

Tiropita - Cheese pie with ricotta, cream cheese, feta and mint.

Kreatopita - Beef pie with special seasonings.

Trigona - An almond paste triangle wrapped in phyllo with honey syrup.

Afali - Also known as "Bird's Nest" has a roll of chopped pistachios surrounded by phyllo and dipped in honey.

Kataif - Often mistaken for shredded wheat, Kataif is a treat of shredded dough surrounding crushed walnuts and almonds dipped in honey.

Galactobouriko - Our famous rich custard pastry.

I brought a few boxes to a Greek friend of mine who used to be in the business and she and all the rest of us gave our seal of approval. I particularly recommend the Kreatopita and Galactobouriko.

Thanks to Pan for the recommendation.

Edited June 15, 2005 by VivreManger (log)

VivreManger · June 15, 2005

I rescued some old pastry-crawl notes from a trip to NY in January '04.

They might still be of interest.

Payard, disappointing.

Petrossian, good.

Ceci Cela, very good, a very nice surprise.

Pain Quotidien, mixed

To elaborate on NY patisseries.

First to dispense with the one not in the running: Pain Quotidien. As the name suggests it is a bakery not a patisserie, but since one of its branches is across the street from Petrossian and a few minutes from where we were staying I thought it worth trying. Their bread is respectable. Pain poilaine it is not, but they bake an honest loaf. The baguette was rustic, chewy, and tasty. The large wheat round bread is a substantial piece of gluten with good hearty wholewheat flavor. I have yet to sample the multi-grain, but it smells good.

Their croissant is better than the supermarket variety, and is comparable to the sub-standard issue all too common in Paris, but it does not match what a croissant should be, a flaky, light buttery, brief crumbling communion with warm and wonderful wheat in a field of sunshine. The contrast between the outer dark crunchy crust and the inner yielding white dough should have been more elaborate.

They make a so-called Belgian brownie that is bigger and better than the standard supermarket issue, but nothing spectacular.

On the other hand their pastries are horrid. I bought two tarts: one lemon and one caramel creme brulee. The base of crust might as well have been cardboard. It was nearly hard as a rock. The toppings were even worse. The so-called creme brulee tasted like a layer of cookless -- the kind kids whip up in the kitchen -- butterscotch pudding on top of a thin layer of vanilla pudding.

However I can recommend them for one virtue, a virtue that flows from their vice. Since they are not a patisserie, they know how to pack their product to go. In striking contrast to Payard, the villain of the piece, they know that not all their customers transport their products home on a gyroscopically and aerodynamically balanced pastry conveyor mounted on a special platform of their chauffeured Rolls. PQ offers small hard plastic containers that snap shut and neatly hold the pastry in place. Better to buy them than the pastry they hold.

I should have realized what Payard was like when I called them early in the day to place my order. I explained that I would be carrying the pastries home a distance and I wanted to pack them carefully. I suggested that each tart could be placed in a small box all its own and that would minimize damage. They evinced no idea of what I was talking about. In Paris, I take that reaction for granted since one shops at the neighborhood patisserie -- as one should -- and the walk home is only a few feet away. But in mobile car-driven America, I would expect a different response. Their reaction actually encouraged me to expect something as good as Paris, one explanation of their cluelessness.

When I picked up my order that evening the tartes were all crowded into one weak large fancy yellow Payard box, more decorative than effective. I suggested that they could put some bakery tissue paper between each of the half dozen or so pieces so they would not move so much. Two responses: the paper would itself acquire the adjoining pastries and why don't I buy one more so there would be less free space. Of course I should have said better the paper than the pastry. I don't really care for chocolate berry melange mousse, but a bit of berry mousse on its own wrapping paper can always be licked off.

By the time I got around to ordering, the Louvre -- various mousses in dark chocolate -- was gone, but I did try a Japonais, Manhasset, Chocolate chiboust tart, two NY, NY, and a chocolate mousse in a tin cup to fill the box. I also picked up a few macarons, rose and chocolate.

Payard love mousses and I do too, but they are not Bouley mousse makers. I tried the cassis mousse in the Manhasset, the chocolate mousse in the Japonais and in the Notre Dame. None of these were bad, but none of them puts Payard in the major pastry league. Their problem is that for all their mousse might, they don't know how to make pastry dough. The sable Breton in the Manhasset Cassis mousse was as hard and tasty as a rock, a horrid contrast to the delicate cookie at Bouley the night before. The sweet dough in the Chocolate Chiboust Tart made the cookie at the base of the chocolate bas relief in Lu's Le Petit Ecolier, seem like a gossamer fairy delicacy. The pastry is not well-baked. I wonder if they share recipes with Pain Quotidien.

As for the macarons, their center was dry and tasteless. I expect the best French patisserie in New York to be inferior to those in Paris, but at least they should be comparable. The divide in quality between Pierre Herme and Payard is far greater than the ocean between them. Payard could not survive in Paris.

As I was getting ready to pay, I did notice they had a tarte tatin for sale, but I had already bought enough and the apples on this tarte were far too pale and insufficiently carmelized to tempt me.

For your convenience here is what appears on their website.

Japonais Milk Chocolate Mousse, Yuzu Citrus Cream, Sacher Biscuit

Louvre, Hazelnut Mousse, Milk Chocolate Mousse, Hazelnut Dacquoise Covered in Dark Chocolate.

Manhasset Cassis Mousse, Passion Fruit Cream with a Sable Breton

NY, NY Lemon Sponge, Berry Syrup, Fresh Berries and a Cream Cheese Mousse with a

Manhattan Skyline Silk Screen -- incidentally the twin towers till stand.

Notre Dame, Chocolate Biscuit, Chocolate Mousse and Vanilla Bavarois.

Saint-Honore, Pastry Filled with Sweetened Whipped Cream and Dipped in Caramel

Paris Brest, Choux Pastry Filled with Praliné Cream.

Mont Blanc, Sweet Dough, Chestnut Cream, Meringue, Whipped Cream, Chesnut Vermicelles and Candied Chestnuts.

Chocolate Chiboust Tart Sweet Dough, Caramel Ganache, Candied Nuts and Chocolate Chiboust Cream.

I know Petrossian as a purveyor of caviar and smoked salmon and I was surprised by the suggestion that I try their pastry. Their website lists none and when I appeared at their shop in the morning none were yet on display. Sight unseen and on blind trust I ordered a few. Quickly I realized I was dealing with a staff very different from Payard. One pastry I intended for a friend with a very rare digestive disorder that restricts her diet. One of the few fruits she can eat is blueberries. When I learned they make a blueberry blackberry tarte, I asked if they could make it all blueberry. Though surprised, Gigi quickly agreed.

When I returned later to pick them up, I was not disappointed. Petrossian uses as its base, fillo-like flaky dough, a mille-feuille. The result is an extremely light and delicate foil for the fruit above. I gave away three of the pastries to friends at home and so have fully tasted only the raspberry tarte, but it is a very impressive creation. Not too sweet, a slight date-like base below. I could not identify the fruit. I took a small taste of the apple in another tarte. I did not like it as much, but the dough below it seemed equally scrumptious.

I also bought a fruit strudel and a savory cheese role. The strudel I have yet to try. I have had better cheese rolls.

Ceci-Cela Pâtisserie 55 Spring St Bet. Lafayette/Mulberry (212) 274-9179

Raspberry with brandied cherries, strawberry, apple, creme brulee, meringue, cherry flan.

My original itinerary had not included Ceci Cela. From 2nd Avenue I had been planning to take the F train to Lafayette and change to the Lexington Ave. line Uptown to get to Payard. However I discovered that you can't get there from here. I would have to get out, add a fare and cross to the Uptown entrance. Rather than waste my two bucks on Lafayette St. I decided to go down one stop to Spring on the 6 train and check out the Spring St. Ceci Cela which is right next to the station entrance. I was very glad I did.

Ceci Cela is what I would call, to paraphrase Pan, a very good ordinary patisserie -- it is a concept I do accept. I don't consider the tartes sampled from Pain Quotidien to have reached that level. CC is the kind of reliable unpretentious purveyor that you can usually find in a Paris neighborhood. Not everything is great, but the standard is high and the price-quality ratio is good. The pastries are a little more than half the price of the uptown shops and the size is almost as large. Everything looked good. Of what I tried -- raspberry with brandied cherries, apple, creme brulee, and cherry flan -- the raspberry cherry tart was the best, the apple the least successful. I also bought some eclairs and a strawberry tarte, but I gave those away without a taste. The pastry dough is neither too hard or thick -- like that in Pain Quotidien and Payard -- nor too soft with the risk of sogginess -- like that of Petrossian. Instead it is of the typical classic French style. The strawberry tart had a rich eggy custard. The raspberry-cherry had a layer of nuts as well.

I also very much preferred the atmosphere to any of the other places, narrow and tight as it was. Locals were coming in and out, to be greeted with a familiar word of welcome. But a stranger was also quickly made welcome as well. The Frenchman -- owner, employee?? -- who was running the counter had an easy friendly manner. Although the quality is not as high as the Bontè of yesteryear, the atmosphere was similar.

Ceci Cela does not have the precious pretentious quality of the mid-town and uptown patisserie, nor the corporate multi-outlet enforced good behavior of the multi-branch Le Pain Quotidien -- 6 in Manhattan and 3 in LA. I believe CC has two branches downtown and I can well understand the preference for this branch. The other, which I happened to drive by a day earlier, is much less intime.

By the way I did not try the croissant or brioche. In general, the best croissant I have had over the last year or so, between sampling in Paris, Montreal, and New York, has to be at Duc de Lorraine in Montreal.

Edited June 15, 2005 by VivreManger (log)

mascarpone · June 15, 2005

My gawd, VivreManger, what a post! Waddaya dink dis is, a doctoral dissertation? :raz:

Edited June 15, 2005 by mascarpone (log)

Pan · June 15, 2005

[inside information: Mascarpone is writing a doctoral dissertation. Carry on...]

mascarpone · June 15, 2005

Ahem . . . my name is spelled with a lowercase "m" (mascarpone), thank you very much. :raz:

Edited June 15, 2005 by mascarpone (log)

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