Genever (Holland Gin)

[Yojimbo]

The White Hook was tasty, but I'm not sure that dry vermouth is the best partner for genever, speaking personally. I added a barspoon full of Ferrand dry curacao to get more orange flavor, but that didn't quite work either. Looking forward to trying the Dutch Courage if I can get a few more calamondins off my small tree!

[Dangermonkey]

Actually become a fan of Diep 9 Old Genever an aged genever from Belgium. Has the maltiness a lot of the other imports lack.

[Plantes Vertes]

Holland House #3s

1.75oz genever

0.75oz extra dry vermouth

0.5oz lemon juice

0.25oz Luxardo Maraschino

[Rafa]

How were they?

[Plantes Vertes]

Rafa, sorry I missed your question before, and I wish I had answered it when I had a better memory of the drink - they were dry as goddamn, is the main thing that comes to mind now, and the Luxardo was very muted; there was no noticeable cherry flavour. If I remember well I found the vermouth and the genever both held quite distinct so it was a good combination in the sense of allowing them both to stand true, but it set no fires alight.

Today we made Amsterdams from Trader Vic. Only we made them a lot bigger.

Oranges, eh? I reckon four dashes of Regans and an oz of Cointreau are a fair enough way to control for their shortcomings. Those elements push the drink towards a wintery, gently sweet and spiced palate that makes sense of the citrus and of the genever malt.

Edited November 16, 2013 by Plantes Vertes (log)

[ChrisTaylor]

I've almost finished a bottle of Bols Genever. It's the kind in the clear bottle. I'm not a huge fan of the product, although I'll admit it has a place in something like a Last Word. I'm not inclined to replace it with the same stuff. That said, I've been told the Bols stuff in the stone(?) bottle--the corenwyn--is what I want. What's the difference? Is the base flavour profile totally different or basically the same thing? I have access to numerous variations of Bols as well as Bokma and Blankenheym.

[tanstaafl2]

I've almost finished a bottle of Bols Genever. It's the kind in the clear bottle. I'm not a huge fan of the product, although I'll admit it has a place in something like a Last Word. I'm not inclined to replace it with the same stuff. That said, I've been told the Bols stuff in the stone(?) bottle--the corenwyn--is what I want. What's the difference? Is the base flavour profile totally different or basically the same thing? I have access to numerous variations of Bols as well as Bokma and Blankenheym.

Mostly has to do with how much "malt wine" is used as I understand it. Malt wine means the proportion of the grain that has been malted versus unmalted grain that results in grain neutral spirits or vodka. The name Corenwyn implies it is "corn wine" although it is also known as grain wine and in reality the malted grain used can be most anything. Typically it is barley or rye but I suppose it could include corn too. Don't know enough about the details to be sure!

Corenwyn must be at least 51% malt wine whereas oude jenever like the Bols you had is only required to have at least 15% and jonge jenever has less than 15%.

The more malt wine the better I say! I have a 10yo Corenwyn and a 15yo Roggenaer which is basically an all rye malt whiskey with a hint of juniper somewhere in the background. Both are excellent!

But these are sippin' "whiskey" to me. If you want to mix with it you probably want a younger Corenwyn. I think it must have at least some age to be a corenwyn but I have seen 2, 4, 6 and 10yo versions at a minimum.

From a few years back:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/19/AR2008021900685.html

"After the flair, I got down to business and sampled the three basic genevers: oude, jonge and corenwyn. Genever labeled oude, or old, is not aged but rather is made according to a traditional recipe calling for at least 15 percent malt wine.

It's a recipe the Dutch have used since the 16th century, when a chemist in Leyden invented the spirit by adding juniper ("genever" in Dutch) to distilled alcohol. Oude genever has a funky, earthy quality that is unlike anything else; it has become one of my favorite spirits in the world.

Jonge, or young, genever is the most popular spirit in the Netherlands. It follows a recipe that dates from the early 20th century. A more neutral spirit, it still maintains some of the flavorful maltiness of the oude.

Corenwyn (corn wine), a cask-aged genever, must contain at least 51 percent malt wine. The spirit's finest expression, corenwyn shares many of the characteristics of fine aged whiskey.

Corenwyn and oude genever generally are sold in the traditional earthenware bottles."

[Rafa]

Does the Corenwyn taste like liquid sourdough like the regular (for US markets) Genever does? I ask as a big fan of said sourdough flavor.

[Hassouni]

How is the Boomsma compared to the US-distributed Bols? A shop near me has both jonge and oude Boomsma genever for substantially less than Bols..

[Plantes Vertes]

We made a poor man's Improved Holland Gin Cocktail, with Bols rather than Genevieve.

It really was lovely. Great spices and warmth. An example of a super-simple structure that demonstrates the complexity of the ingredients really well. The genever and the dry rye make such a complementary couple; they're like each other's imaginary friends.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Plantes Vertes (log)

[tanstaafl2]

Does the Corenwyn taste like liquid sourdough like the regular (for US markets) Genever does? I ask as a big fan of said sourdough flavor.

How is the Boomsma compared to the US-distributed Bols? A shop near me has both jonge and oude Boomsma genever for substantially less than Bols..

While I like jenever I am by no means an expert!

I did a little taste test refresher this evening. The Bols Corenwyn I have is aged 10 years and is more a fine whiskey to be drunk neat rather than used as a mixer in my opinion. Although it has at least as much malt wine as the US Bols it does not have as much of the sourdough malty flavor that the Bols has. I suspect time in the barrel has softened that considerably as it would do to any white dog spirit.

The Bols is unaged and also has at least 51% malt wine like a Corenwyn according to the bottle despite needing only a minimum of 15% to be called oude jenever. I have no idea why it has such a high content of malt wine or exactly what distinguishes it from Corenwyn other than the lack of aging. Perhaps the type of grain is critical and a Corenwyn must have at least some corn? I would guess the Bols is perhaps mostly a rye malt. What ever the reason this no doubt explains its delightfully strong sourdough or malty flavor. I should note I tend to keep it refrigerated for cocktail mixing and this may decrease the taste a bit compared to both the Corenwyn and Boosma oude jenever.

The Boosma (I have the oude style as noted) is aged for one year, unlike the Bols (although there is a barrel aged Bols available in the US still I believe), and I suspect it has far less malt wine in it than the Bols although the bottle does not specify. So it is not as malty and therefore less appealing to me for old style cocktails. It is more like vodka/gin with a bit of malt flavoring. Presumably the jonge Boosma would have even less distinctive flavor but I have never tried it.

If you can get it I suggest the Bols over the Boosma for cocktails where you want a distinctive jenever influence. I think it is much more interesting.

Oddly the Bols reminds me a bit of the Jack Daniels unaged rye. I suppose that shouldn't really be all that surprising.

Edited November 25, 2013 by tanstaafl2 (log)

[Plantes Vertes]

Thanks for the tutorial tanstaafl2!

[cdh]

I grabbed a bottle, or more accurately a crock, of Diep 9 Oude Genever in the New Hampshire liquor mart while passing through New England recently. Very tasty stuff. Has a better flavor profile than the US formula Bols or Boomsma I've previously tried. Pleasant to consume straight out of the freezer, neat, in a little glass... like the dutch gin I was first introduced to long ago. Worth trying if you get the chance. Now will have to see how it performs in cocktails.

[Czequershuus]

Recently restocked on Bols Genever (at nice discount, no one here seems to buy it, I have seen the same 5 bottles at the store or months) and thought I would try some new stuff out.

Skid Row

2 Oz Genever

0.5 Oz Ramazzotti

0.5 Oz Apricot Liqueur (Apry)

1 ds Orange Bitters (Regan's)

Stir, strain, up, orange twist

Not so sure about this one, just does not mesh for me. I love the funk of genever, but in most cocktails I like it tamed a it more. Here I get all the individual ingredients with no harmony. A disappointment from an exciting looking recipe.

Elixir Alpestre

2 Oz Genever

0.75 Oz St. Germain

0.25 Oz Becherovka

1 ds Orange Bitters

6 drops Asinthe (2 spritzes)

Stir, strain, up

This one was better, the St. Germain really works with the genever. Not an amazing drink, but solid, interesting. I have never had aged genever, but I can picture that working well here.

Occam's Razor Blade

2 Oz Genever

0.75 Oz Drambuie

0.75 Oz Lemon Juice

1 ds Peychauds

1 ds Orange Bitters

1 ds Orange Flower Water

2 Oz Soda Water

Shake, strain, highball, rocks

Now this one works! Drambuie has an excellent affinity with genever, the spice really reigns in the maltiness, like in a nice Rye Ale. The Peychauds gives it a beautiful color, and is also strangely sticks out in the final product. I really like this one.

[Rafa]

Glad you liked it.

[Czequershuus]

Glad you liked it.

Ha, didn't look to see who created it. I tend to copy and paste cocktails I find on the internet to personal to try file, often missing the creator. Well, cheers, it is an excellent drink.

[Rafa]

No problem, I have a few drinks floating around in my to-try files whose providence I neglected to note, which is only a problem when I want to upload them to KC and attribute them properly, but not a problem at all when I just want to enjoy a fine drink.

On topic: what's everyone's preferred ratio for a Holland Razor Blade? And has anyone experimented with infusing the pepper into the syrup rather than floating it as the garnish? I make mine with serrano-infused honey syrup, for a kind of Penicillin-like lush/spicy effect, but it changes the character of the drink considerably, and sometimes I just want a simple Genever Sour with a bit of bite.

[Plantes Vertes]

A couple of days ago we investigated the Gin Daisy from Jerry Thomas's Bartender's Guide. I'm thinking that my conception of a 'dash' is a little large because for me this was gag-makingly sweet. Well, you can't win 'em all.

3 or 4 dashes of gum simple syrup
3 dashes of Maraschino
The juice of half a small 1/2oz lemon juice
1 wine-glass 2oz of Holland gin

Then yesterday we acted more wisely and chose a Treacle by Dick Bradsell:

2 ounces dark rum
1/2 1/4 ounce simple syrup
2 dashes Angostura bitters
1/2 ounce apple juice

[Czequershuus]

About mid February those of us fortunate to be residents of the frozen north start collectively thinking "Well, winter, I think we have had about enough of this" only to remember that we will likely still see snow on the ground for another two months. So something Caribbean was in order

Barbadian Gin Punch Swizzle (The Wondrich modified version on Kindred Cocktails)

2 Oz Genever

2 Oz Coconut Water

0.5 Oz Demerara Syrup

0.5 Oz Lime Juice

2 ds Angostura Bitters

Build over crushed ice and swizzle. Garnish with a lime wheel and add a straw.

The perfect relief from the winter blues. I love the way the richer tones of the coconut water and genever interact. And the Angostura lends just enough spice to make a truly satisfying beverage.

[FrogPrincesse]

On topic: what's everyone's preferred ratio for a Holland Razor Blade? And has anyone experimented with infusing the pepper into the syrup rather than floating it as the garnish? I make mine with serrano-infused honey syrup, for a kind of Penicillin-like lush/spicy effect, but it changes the character of the drink considerably, and sometimes I just want a simple Genever Sour with a bit of bite.

Rafa - I've been using Eric Alperin's version (2/ 0.75 / 0.75) but with espelette instead of cayenne pepper.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

I've been thinking about death in the gulf stream, since Baker is one of the books I keep by my keyboard.  What style of genever would Baker and Hemingway have been using?

 

Baker describes Holland gin as "a vigorously flavored gin... [with] a very potent juniper taste..."

[lesliec]

I think that pretty much sums it up.  I've seen genever referred to as being a sipping spirit, much like whisky, and not originally intended to be mixed.  Traditionally it would certainly have been a 'weightier' drink than gin.

[Hassouni]

I've been thinking about death in the gulf stream, since Baker is one of the books I keep by my keyboard.  What style of genever would Baker and Hemingway have been using?

 

Baker describes Holland gin as "a vigorously flavored gin... [with] a very potent juniper taste..."

 

Disagree, the genevers I've tried have far less juniper than any London dry

 

I think that pretty much sums it up.  I've seen genever referred to as being a sipping spirit, much like whisky, and not originally intended to be mixed.  Traditionally it would certainly have been a 'weightier' drink than gin.

 

Yes, weightier in the sense of maltier. It's like a lighter malt whisky with some juniper notes.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Disagree, the genevers I've tried have far less juniper than any London dry

 

 

Yes, weightier in the sense of maltier. It's like a lighter malt whisky with some juniper notes.

 

That was my point.  I'm wondering if what Baker and Hemingway were drinking and calling Holland gin was a different spirit.

[tanstaafl2]

Disagree, the genevers I've tried have far less juniper than any London dry

 

 

Yes, weightier in the sense of maltier. It's like a lighter malt whisky with some juniper notes.

 

I agree that genevers I have tried are not all that potent in terms of juniper and they were likely very malt-y spirits. Perhaps Genevieve is closer to what they might have been drinking than any routinely available oude genever in the US today? Jonge genever isn't likely close and is just this side of vodka!