Wine

[cachan]

I drink very little alcohol so when I go to the restaurant with my wife we do not have any wine at all, we just have still bottled water.

I have observed that most fellow diners for lunch and dinner do drink wine and I am wondering why anyone should drink any liquid other than pure water with their gourmet food as we should not wish to detract or adulterate our experience of the food, especially when in any of the many top restaurants in the world, such as MENU and Grill at the Connaught.

Additionally, I have heard that one should not drink too much liquid when eating otherwise the digestive juices are diluted and we feel uncomfortable.

I drink only still bottled water so that I can truly taste and feel the ingredients without any other substance altering the experience and I can clear my palate in between experiencing different items.

Many gourmets and many chefs and cooks refer to the complimentary effect that the appropriate wine can have on each food. I do not understand this. I wonder if most gourmets have tried to dine without wine and with just pure water.

Any opinions ?

[Gary Marshall]

is it may the first or april the first ?

what you need to think about is that many people love wine as much as food, if not more.

as you don't drink much the pleasure that to me is very obvious of a meal with champagne, white wine , red wine, desert wine and digestifs will never compute for you.

much as i don't smoke so can't see the point of it at any time, and i never will.

cheers

gary

[balex]

snip

I drink only still bottled water so that I can truly taste and feel the ingredients without any other substance altering the experience and I can clear my palate in between experiencing different items.

Any opinions ?

←

Cooking is all about altering the experience -- by cooking, by adding herbs, and so on. Accompanying wines is just one more element. Bear in mind also that wine is such an integral part of European haute cuisine that most chefs will implictly factor into their dishes the fact that they will be eaten with wine.

[Paula Jonvik]

A great point...

However, most folk feel that dining upon these types of dishes without an accompanying glass of complimentary wine is like making love without a kiss... Not as enjoyable, not complete.

The world of wine is a daunting topic at the very least, but having just finished reading Chef Michel Jr.'s (of Le Gavroche) newest book entitled "Matching Food and Wine- Classic & Not So Classic Combinations"- and it has aided me in understanding the reasons for selecting the proper wine to pair with several dishes. It is not a book on wine, rather a Chef's point of view on why certain wines are paired with certain foods and what to avoid and why.

After all, it is all down to personal preference.

I am a Champagne head, thankfully, as it goes with everything!

Micro brewed beers (as we like to refer to them here in Seattle), are making head way in upscale diningrooms across the globe, and the pairing of them with dishes is on the rise.

But it is never wrong, IMHO, to remain a purist and simply enjoy the creations as they are. I just happen to like a kiss with my lovin'!;)

Dine on and enjoy your water! Time will soon come whe bottled water will cost as much as wine anyway!

By the way... Most restaurants don't really make a profit on their food, rather the wine sales are where the profit comes in. So that may be the reason some folk look sideways at you when you don't order wine with your meal. They see their profit margin shrinking.

Paula

[jennahan]

Although one can absolutely enjoy the taste of expertly prepared food by itself, wine does indeed enhance the flavor. The acidity of wine allows more flavor molecules to stimulate our chemoreceptors, and thus allow us to taste food better (like adding lemon to fish, or vinegar to a dish). I also find that it can cut through very fat-heavy dishes and make them seem lighter to the taste. The whole point of food-wine pairings is to match the instrinsic flavors of a particular wine with the dish so that they enhance eachother, rather than clash. Sushi with red wine is definitely wrong...making both the wine and the sushi less palatable. However, eat sushi with champagne, and something just clicks. In essence, I see wine as just another ingredient.

[Rebel Rose]

I also find that it can cut through very fat-heavy dishes and make them seem lighter to the taste.  The whole point of food-wine pairings is to match the instrinsic flavors of a particular wine with the dish so that they enhance eachother, rather than clash. 

That's a very key point, and when I teach seminars on food and wine pairing, it's the one I stress the most. A successful food and wine pairing leaves the palate fresh and ready for more. In fact, while I usually eschew red, fatty and marbled meats because they're too rich for my taste, I find that a slightly tannic and acidic red cuts the oily taste of the meat, making each bite seem like the first one, and the fat and rich taste of the meat counterbalances the tannin in the wine, making each sip seem like the first one.

Another key to enjoying a successful food and wine pairing is to sip and evaluate, not gulp, during the meal. (Unless you're dining with in-laws or annoying people.)

Cachan is right, it's better for digestion to consume only small amounts of liquid during a meal. It always amazes me to see people absent-mindedly gulping water, ice tea or wine while eating. It dilutes the flavor of the meal, and dilutes the stomach acids and enzymes necessary for proper digestion.

[Craig Camp]

Wine IS a food.

[JMayer]

Hello,

Perhaps in order to understand why people like to eat wine with their meals you should do a little field research . I would suggest the ultimate peering (well at least to me) Foie gras and Sauternes!! Or perhaps lamb chops with a Bordeaux. For me there is nothing better then great food and great wine, and I have eaten many great meals with just water and while these meals are still quite enjoyable nothing beats a meal with great wine. However, I do understand where you are coming from, I shared your opinion for many years (mostly because age prohibited me from drinking) but now I have seen the light!

Cheers,

Justin

Edited May 3, 2005 by JMayer (log)

[Brad Ballinger]

I am a Champagne head, thankfully, as it goes with everything!

←

And I thought I was the only one.

[jrufusj]

Sushi with red wine is definitely wrong...making both the wine and the sushi less palatable.

←

While I agree with everything else you've said (and said very well), I do have to take issue with this comment.

These links (#1 and #2) discuss the match.

Rather than rewrite what others have said, I will simply say that:

(1) Some significant members of the wine and sushi communities are enamoured of the red burg-sushi pairing.

(2) I've tried it more than once and have found that it often works, but not always. At times it is revelatory.

It's not for everyone (and shouldn't have to be), but "definitely wrong" is a mighty strong pair of words.

Explore and enjoy!

Jim

[redwinegulper]

I had to laugh at the inlaws comment. I cook Thanksgiving every year, and the first bottle of wine is open about a half-hour before the in-laws arrive.

Although many of us love food, we equally love our wine.

Edited May 6, 2005 by redwinegulper (log)

[jsolomon]

Cachan is right, it's better for digestion to consume only small amounts of liquid during a meal.  It always amazes me to see people absent-mindedly gulping water, ice tea or wine while eating.  It dilutes the flavor of the meal, and dilutes the stomach acids and enzymes necessary for proper digestion.

←

I think this is rather a red-herring-esque argument, as your stomach can produce acids and digestive enzymes at different rates depending on necessity. No one ever discusses how taking in excess water dilutes the initial digestive juices of saliva, etc in your mouth, because there is constant production that can change its volume and composition as necessary. This is the same throughout your digestive tract.

I will submit that wine is food just as much as cheese, yogurt, vinegar, bread, and coffee are foods (that generally have fermentations steps in their production). These foods and aesthetics about application of these foods evolved throughout history to our modern food aesthetic.

To say refute that wine is an integral part of fine dining is tantamount to saying that bread, also is not an integral part of fine dining. You can have fine--and even spectactular--meals that do not have one or the other, but you deny millennia of history, wars, science, art, and humanity that have sprung up from the appreciation of these many splendored, scintillating showcases of what a little time, knowledge, and a lot of love can do.

God bless Dom Perignon.

[Carolyn Tillie]

Wine IS a food.

←

Best argument I've heard!

[Daniel Rogov]

Cachan, Hello....

Your point that drinking wine will interfere with the pleasures of the cuisine can be carried ad absurdum - that is to say, that if one is to enjoy the purest flavors and texture of any food item, that itemshould not be served with either sauces or side dishes, each of which distracts the palate.

Sorry to disagree so emphatically but wine and food were born to be paired one with the other, each highlighting the flavors, aromas, textures and other sensations that impact on our sense of smell, taste and sight.

[malcolmjolley]

Wine IS a food.

←

Best argument I've heard!

←

Amen.

[StevenC]

... I am wondering why anyone should drink any liquid other than pure water with their gourmet food as we should not wish to detract or adulterate our experience of the food...

←

Because food tastes better with wine, and wine tastes better with food.

[EHPete]

Also, some things we taste are alcohol soluble, not water soluble - so there are flavors you simply will not taste in the food without wine accompanying it.

[Pan]

When I saw the subtitle to this thread, I thought the issue would be different: Whether wine is really necessary for a great meal. I would strongly argue that it is not, though such an opinion is really personal and not some kind of universal principle. But far be it from me to suggest that wine cannot add to the enjoyment of a meal. I certainly don't think wine could have improved my meal at the Li Family Restaurant in Beijing, but though I am only an occasional wine drinker, I have certainly had meals that were enhanced by one or more glasses of well-matched wine.

[jsolomon]

I agree with you, Pan. Wine is not a necessary condition to have a great meal, but (pardon the mathematical/philosophical academic language here) in the set of Great Meals wine definitely has a place.

What I find uniquely interesting, though, is that almost invariably, when I think of "great meals" I am thinking of an extravagant supper, usually with wine or beer.

However, when I inventory the great meals that I've had, usually they end up being a breakfast (almost exclusively sans alcohol), lunch, or dinner--farm definitions.

What I've come up with, and this is a very initial, personal hypothesis, is that the more things like preserved fruits (jams, jellies, syrups), especially sugar-preserved, the less I'm likely to drink wine. What are other people's occasions to not drink wine?

Yes, I'm even noticing with "breakfast for dinner" types of meals, I rarely have wine with them.

[StevenC]

What I've come up with, and this is a very initial, personal hypothesis, is that the more things like preserved fruits (jams, jellies, syrups), especially sugar-preserved, the less I'm likely to drink wine.

←

Spread some strawberry jam on a warm brioche and then pour yourself a Muscat-based sparkling wine... the combination hits a pleasure center in the brain that morning coffee can't approach.

I agree, though, that there are many foods that go better with other drinks. For example, I prefer to drink beer with a lot of spicier Indian or Mexican dishes, and despite my best efforts with various Rieslings, I find wine with Chinese food to be a stretch. Even caviar, which has a traditional wine pairing, works better with something else. I think the saltiness of the fish eggs needs to be counterbalanced by sweetness in a wine, which is probably why caviar and Champagne arose as a classic combination--a century ago the average bottle of Champagne was sweeter than it is today. Unfortunately, I find that a sweet wine can easily overwhelm caviar (on the rare occasions I get to eat it). I think a much better pairing is chilled vodka, which gets a phantom sweetness from its high alcohol content.

[Rebel Rose]

Actually, now that you mention it, I don't like wine with eggs. So when we have a frittata for dinner I prefer ice tea. I also prefer ice tea with pizza. In fact, I really really like unsweetened herbal ice tea--I make my own with orange, mint and hibiscus, and often prefer the tea over wine, even with more elaborate dishes.

[Busboy]

I once got into a bit of a spat with the proprietor of one of DC's old-line and well-respected wine shops (Bells, for you locals) when, as he hekld one of his regular Saturday tasting sessions I said that I was looking for an inexpensive red for an dinner of omlette and fried potatoes with garlic and parsley. He, and the other tasters were aghast: "you can't drink red with an omlette!" they cried. The moral being that I do like a butchy little red with eggs if I'm matching them with fried foods and there's pork to be included (like a bacon omlette or Eggs Benedict).

As to the larger question, I don't see fine dining as an intellectual exercise, demanding that senses and palate remain pristine throughout the evening. Rather, it's an exercise in delight, in which food, companions and, perhaps, something intoxicating come together in a mysterious alchemy, each element bringing out the best in the others. I prefer to eat a meal, rather than dissect it, knowing that there is no exam to follow.

One of my favorite meals ever was lunch at the old 4-star Bouley and Mrs. B and I got completely whacked on excellent Burgundy (then available for less then the cost of a new car), to the point where we were reduced to wordless giggling at how fucking good the food was. Would I have a more precise memory of the roast duck with wheatberry (or was it barley? I knew less then) Chef Bouley served as my entree? Probably. But would the meal itself have been as memorable? Absolutely not.

[cachan]

Is it true that restaurant critic A. A. Gill does not drink wine with his restaurant meals ?

[Peter Green]

I would have to agree that a great meal is not necessarily dependent upon the availability of wine.

I find that beer and spirits can both serve suitably depending upon the cuisine!

(And, of course, there's Maekhong, coke, and soda for Thai food!)

[Fat Guy]

Is it true that restaurant critic A. A. Gill does not drink wine with his restaurant meals ?

←

He is a recovering alcoholic, so that would follow ("he was an alcoholic until the age of 30").

I can't imagine it's all that big a deal for any critic, but certainly it's not a big deal for Gill since he barely writes about food anyway.