dried chilis

[highchef]

before adding to a marinade. does it matter, or just depend on whether it's dry (rub) or wet. I know it's a dumb question, but I wonder about transfer of flavor..

[KatieLoeb]

The best chile advice I ever received was from Chef Robert Del Grande of Cafe Annie in Houston. A summary of what he told me appears at the beginning of my Chili recipe in RecipeGullet HERE

He was definitely right about toasting the dried chiles and then softening them in a liquid before pureeing in the blender. He also said not to mix dried and fresh chiles in a recipe, which I thought was interesting.

I think if you plan on using the chiles for a dry rub, then just running them through the coffee grinder should be enough. You could possibly toast them first as well, but you;d probably have to wait for them to "dry" a bit afterward so it didn't all clump up from the oils when you tried to grind it.

[highchef]

The best chile advice I ever received was from Chef Robert Del Grande of Cafe Annie in Houston.  A summary of what he told me appears at the beginning of my Chili recipe in RecipeGullet HERE

He was definitely right about toasting the dried chiles and then softening them in a liquid before pureeing in the blender.  He also said not to mix dried and fresh chiles in a recipe, which I thought was interesting.

I think if you plan on using the chiles for a dry rub, then just running them through the coffee grinder should be enough.  You could possibly toast them first as well, but you;d probably have to wait for them to "dry" a bit afterward so it didn't all clump up from the oils when you tried to grind it.

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I was going to roast them, it was after that that I was wondering about. That's interesting about not mixing dry and fresh. Thank you, I think I'll grind today and just go for a rub. I need to play with these things more and get more comfortable using them. Any suggestions are welcome, I've got some good marinade recipes from another post to try too. Thank you.

[fifi]

I certainly second what Katie said.

For most of the recipes that I do, I have come to prefer the chile paste made after soaking them. Sometimes I toast them, sometimes not. It is a little different flavor. But there is definitely a place for ground as well. I would just try it both ways in a basic chile, for instance, and see what you like best. At least, you will get a feel for the different flavor notes. I would start with anchos, the most common base, and do some really basic meat/onion/garlic/cumin chile using paste, toasted paste and ground. That will give you a good feel for it. That is what I finally did years ago to get taste for this when confusion reigned.

I am not sure I understand the not combining ground and paste. I have been known to add a bit of ground cascabel for instance when just the anchos needed a kick. Come to think of it, I have done the same with chipotle powder. In that case, the ground is definitely a minor flavor note. I suppose that I am usually deciding after I am into the recipe that I decide it needs something. At that point, I am too lazy to get into the toasting, soaking and blending thing again. I suppose that if I were confident of the flavor and heat level of the other chiles, I would toast and blend them together with the basic paste.

Edit to add: Do yourself a favor. Get a copy of Zarela Martinez's Food From My Heart and make a batch of her chile paste marinade from the "Chiapas Style Roast Pork." Not only is that a good example of using a paste like you would a dry rub, but I will also challenge you to run out of ideas for using this fabulous concoction. You will thank me. You can PM me for instructions for how to contribute to my retirement fund.

Edited April 16, 2005 by fifi (log)

[Chris Amirault]

This thread prompted me to add my recipe for chipotle ancho rub to RecipeGullet (great interface, by the way!) so that I could suggest the method in it. After toasting the chiles in oil and grinding them up with a few other things, the rub maintains a wet consistency that can be dried out in the oven if you want a dry rub or combined with liquid (we use lime but you could also use bitter orange, beer, a few other things) and oil to make a marinade.

[scott123]

I've taken anchos and toasted them to just about every shade imagineable, and I can say, with utmost certainty, that I don't like toasted anchos. Untoasted they have a strong raisin and light chocolate/dried tomato notes. Toasted, it all goes murky, almost like the dark/irony quality of an overcooked tomato sauce. At least that how it is for me.

I'm not anti-toasting, btw. I would never think of eating 'raw' cumin. But anchos... not for me, thanks.

[fifi]

I've taken anchos and toasted them to just about every shade imagineable, and I can say, with utmost certainty, that I don't like toasted anchos. Untoasted they have a strong raisin and light chocolate/dried tomato notes. Toasted, it all goes murky, almost like the dark/irony quality of an overcooked tomato sauce. At least that how it is for me.

I'm not anti-toasting, btw.  I would never think of eating 'raw' cumin.  But anchos... not for me, thanks.

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I am with you on this one. Having done a side by side comparison, I have rarely toasted anchos since. Perhaps it is a personal preference. I have to say that for toasting, I finally evolved to removing the stem and seeds and flattening strips before toasting on a hot skillet. I found that I could control the toasting better that way. There may be something lost by not having the seeds in there but that is better than scorching points of contact of the uneven blob that is an ancho.

[highchef]

Thank you. All advice will be heeded. I really want to know this stuff, and buying cookbooks is one of my favorite things. I do have a cookbook called Big Flavors of the Hot Sun by Chris Schlesinger and John Willoughby that has been my go to book, but it really scares me a little because it has a man's approach to cooking a la Mr. Bourdain. but not as clear. example. 'Grilled Orange Rabbit with Green Sauce and Toasted Pecans from Hell'. Now, like I'm gonna do that? Without foreplay? Guys, when you write cookbooks you got to be specific and please let me know where you've been before you throw the bunny on the grill!!

But it's summer and the grill is clean so I shall use and appreciate the help from you all.

[Chris Amirault]

Hmmmm.... Maybe a taste test is in order the next time I whip up this rub....

[highchef]

Hmmmm.... Maybe a taste test is in order the next time I whip up this rub....

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Yes, but you are an e-gulletter...I can trust you.

[fifi]

Hmmm . . . Chris, I just read your recipe. I have never "toasted" anchos in oil. That is probably a very different thing. The recipe sounds terrific. I have also never toasted the oregano but that makes sense as well. I will be trying this recipe.

I am beginning to think that the noble ancho may have multiple personalities . . . all good.

[Mr. Fagioli]

I appreciate this thread because until now I've been using and abusing various dried peppers (mainly ancho, mulato, pasilla, amarilla, chipotle) by sheer naive experimentation. Now maybe it's time to listen to sage advice instead.

Anyway: my experimentation led me to the following handling of these peppers. I remove the stems and membrane and tear the meat into smallish pieces. I then marinate the meat and seeds in olive oil for about an hour (more if the peppers are dried to the point of being brittle) with some minced garlic and possibly some fresh peppers. However I've found that fresh peppers don't really add much, so I save them for the late stages where they can contribute aroma. (Especially if I have highly aromatic habaneros.)

After the oil has had a chance to soften things up, I puree the peppers in the food processor. (Oil and all -- I try to keep the amount just sufficient to soften the peppers; they don't swim.) Typically I'll use the resulting paste in a black-bean stew. Until now I've simply allowed them to stew -- no sauteeing beforehand.

Comments? Correction? Chastisement?

[Chris Amirault]

Hmmm . . . Chris, I just read your recipe. I have never "toasted" anchos in oil. That is probably a very different thing. The recipe sounds terrific. I have also never toasted the oregano but that makes sense as well. I will be trying this recipe.

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Let me know how it goes; I have had to tweak the proportions quite a bit (especially the salt) and would appreciate feedback.

As for referring to "frying" as "toasting": yeesh! I completely spaced on that! At least I can blame the new born!

[backpedaling] They do take on a distinctly toasty flavor, though.... [/backpedaling]

[Chris Amirault]

After the oil has had a chance to soften things up, I puree the peppers in the food processor.  (Oil and all -- I try to keep the amount just sufficient to soften the peppers; they don't swim.) Typically I'll use the resulting paste in a black-bean stew. Until now I've simply allowed them to stew -- no sauteeing beforehand.

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Maybe you should halve the next batch and bring some up to a low sautee for a few minutes to see what happens. If you don't burn them, it ought to deepen the flavors some.

[Mr. Fagioli]

After the oil has had a chance to soften things up, I puree the peppers in the food processor.  (Oil and all -- I try to keep the amount just sufficient to soften the peppers; they don't swim.) Typically I'll use the resulting paste in a black-bean stew. Until now I've simply allowed them to stew -- no sauteeing beforehand.

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Maybe you should halve the next batch and bring some up to a low sautee for a few minutes to see what happens. If you don't burn them, it ought to deepen the flavors some.

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I will try that, and I should be able to manage it without burning anything. I'm not the best cook around, but I do have a reasonably delicate touch with the heat (of the stove). Should be sometime in the next week...

Edited April 19, 2005 by Mr. Fagioli (log)