The Irish Names of Bordeaux

[docsconz]

In honor of St. Patrick's day and all things Irish, I got to thinking about the plethora of Irish origen names on the vineyards of Bordeaux. The list includes names such as O'Brien (Haut-Brion), Lynch, Smith, MacQuin and others. Indeed some of these names may not be Irish, but I do remember hearing about this or reading about it some time and I believe there is an interesting story to this. Does anyone have any more information or references?

In honor of the day I will be opening a 1995 Pavie MacQuin Sant Emilion tonight

[Busboy]

I have been wrong before, but my understanding is that France became a refuge for many in the Irish gentry when they were being oppressed by the English, with some of them getting out with enough money to go into the wine and spirits business.

[docsconz]

That sounds consistent with the little I remember of the story.

[Brad Ballinger]

Well, there's all those British names for Porto houses -- Taylord Fladgate, Churchill, Dow, Cockburn, Graham, etc. And there are Dutch names of Moet and Jouet in Champagne.

I don't know about Haut Brion to O'Brien. Haut in French means "high." I don't know what Brion means, if it's someone's name, or something else. And it's Macquin (wihout the capital Q), so I'm not totally convinced that one is Irish either. But I do think you posted this with tongue in cheek.

Regardless, please post a tasting note on the 95 Pavie Macquin. I have half a case of that wine in the cellar, and I'd be curious as to how it is coming along.

[chefzadi]

That sounds consistent with the little I remember of the story.

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Did you hear it in an Irish Pub? And how much had you been drinking?

[Carolyn Tillie]

Regardless, please post a tasting note on the 95 Pavie Macquin.  I have half a case of that wine in the cellar, and I'd be curious as to how it is coming along.

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Send me a bottle and I'll be happy to report back!

[docsconz]

Well, there's all those British names for Porto houses -- Taylord Fladgate, Churchill, Dow, Cockburn, Graham, etc.  And there are Dutch names of Moet and Jouet in Champagne.

I don't know about Haut Brion to O'Brien.  Haut in French means "high."  I don't know what Brion means, if it's someone's name, or something else.  And it's Macquin (wihout the capital Q), so I'm not totally convinced that one is Irish either.  But I do think you posted this with tongue in cheek.

Regardless, please post a tasting note on the 95 Pavie Macquin.  I have half a case of that wine in the cellar, and I'd be curious as to how it is coming along.

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The O'Brien to Haut Brion does sound plausible, although I could find no reference to this "legend" in either Hugh Johnson's World Atlas of Wine, 4th Ed. or The LaRousse Encyclopedia of Wine. I suppose this amouints to a wine based "urban legend".

[chefzadi]

Origin of the Surname Brion

Gaelic.  The nobly descended, from Bri, dignity, honor, and an, diminutive of that to which it is annexed, belonging to it; Gaelic, gin or gen, begotten. Bri, Welsh, honor; briadd, honorary. Bailey derives Brion from Bruiant, French, ciamorous. Brion, in the Gaelic, also implies one who is fair-spoken, wordy, specious.

[docsconz]

So maybe as with most myths and legends there is some truth behind the story. Interestingly I read that Haut Brion was the first wine to market itself with the name of the winery.

According to the Larousse Encyclopedia of Wine (1994) pg.137,

Haut-Brion was the first wine estate to sell its wine under its own name, as a branded product, when its owner had it shipped to London in 1660.

[Busboy]

Aren't the British names on port because they were the ones to institutionalize the making of port, create a market, and bottle and export the stuff? Also, because of the quality of the grapes, the blending, the fortification etc., the bottler and his style becomes more important -- to the buyer -- than the grower and his vinyard?They may have been drinking port for centuries in Portugal, but no one got around to branding it until somebody in England invented Stilton and they had to start importing the stuff by the barrelful.

Edited March 18, 2005 by Busboy (log)

[jbonne]

Wine Geese. more on Wine Geese.

[docsconz]

Nice article. I should have had a Lynch-Bages.

[russ parsons]

yes, it seems that making wine to an "international taste" is not something new. the biggest consumers of the top bordeaux historically were british. wine goes where the money is and i guess you could argue that first-growth bordeaux are one of the benefits of empire.

[Capaneus]

Aren't the British names on port because they were the ones to institutionalize the making of port, create a market, and bottle and export the stuff?  Also, because of the quality of the grapes, the blending, the fortification etc., the bottler and his style becomes more important -- to the buyer -- than the grower and his vinyard?They may have been drinking port for centuries in Portugal, but no one got around to branding it until somebody in England invented Stilton and they had to start importing the stuff by the barrelful.

←

Well, almost: during their periodic wars with the French, British claret importers had to find alternate sources of wine. So it was really already-existing British merchant firms that created the Douro wine industry. The fortified aspect of things came along fortuitously, at a later date.

[Capaneus]

In honor of St. Patrick's day and all things Irish, I got to thinking about the plethora of Irish origen names on the vineyards of Bordeaux. The list includes names such as O'Brien (Haut-Brion), Lynch, Smith, MacQuin and others. Indeed some of these names may not be Irish, but I do remember hearing about this or reading about it some time and I believe there is an interesting story to this. Does anyone have any more information or references?

In honor of the day I will be opening a 1995 Pavie MacQuin Sant Emilion tonight

←

Are we certain of the Irish end of this? It was usually *Scots* gentlemen crossing the Channel, entering the King's Scots Archers, and often being granted estates as they got themselves noticed by the King. I'm not aware of any such steady and regularly-rewarded influx of Sons of Eire.

[docsconz]

In honor of St. Patrick's day and all things Irish, I got to thinking about the plethora of Irish origen names on the vineyards of Bordeaux. The list includes names such as O'Brien (Haut-Brion), Lynch, Smith, MacQuin and others. Indeed some of these names may not be Irish, but I do remember hearing about this or reading about it some time and I believe there is an interesting story to this. Does anyone have any more information or references?

In honor of the day I will be opening a 1995 Pavie MacQuin Sant Emilion tonight

←

Are we certain of the Irish end of this? It was usually *Scots* gentlemen crossing the Channel, entering the King's Scots Archers, and often being granted estates as they got themselves noticed by the King. I'm not aware of any such steady and regularly-rewarded influx of Sons of Eire.

←

Certain? Not at all. That is why I started the thread, although I had heard bits and pieces specifically about the Irish in Bordeaux. MacQuin may in fact be a Scottish name, which is why I subsequently stated I perhaps should have opened a Lynch-Bages!

[DonRocks]

I don't know about Haut Brion to O'Brien.  Haut in French means "high."  I don't know what Brion means, if it's someone's name, or something else. 

I'm actually surprised you guys don't know this, as it's pretty common knowledge in the wine world: the original owner of the vineyard had a strong affinity for Chateaubriand, and the name Chateau Haut-Brion is actually a pun on this.

... and if you believe this I have some swampland in Florida to sell you

[jtcookie]

Aren't the British names on port because they were the ones to institutionalize the making of port, create a market, and bottle and export the stuff?  Also, because of the quality of the grapes, the blending, the fortification etc., the bottler and his style becomes more important -- to the buyer -- than the grower and his vinyard?They may have been drinking port for centuries in Portugal, but no one got around to branding it until somebody in England invented Stilton and they had to start importing the stuff by the barrelful.

←

Well, almost: during their periodic wars with the French, British claret importers had to find alternate sources of wine. So it was really already-existing British merchant firms that created the Douro wine industry. The fortified aspect of things came along fortuitously, at a later date.

←

As I recall, the fortification was as a result of the wine having to endure the arduous sea voyage in barrel from Porto to the importers of London and Bristol.

In their natural state the wine was not often successfully landed in England, given the agitation and soaking the barrels would experience. Adding grape liquor to the barrel strengthened and stabilized the wine, and thus ensured a more reliable import.

It also gave us Port!

John

[Really Nice!]

I don't know about Haut Brion to O'Brien.  Haut in French means "high."  I don't know what Brion means, if it's someone's name, or something else. 

I'm actually surprised you guys don't know this, as it's pretty common knowledge in the wine world: the original owner of the vineyard had a strong affinity for Chateaubriand, and the name Chateau Haut-Brion is actually a pun on this.

... and if you believe this I have some swampland in Florida to sell you

←

I was goinig to stomp all over this until I saw the last line. You should have saved this for April 1.

The origin of the name of this place name dates back the Middle Ages when it meant "mound" or "hill".

If you want some details about Bordeaux check out Dewey Markham Jr's book, 1855 A history of the Bordeaux classification. This is the best historical wine book I've ever read. The political maneuvering alone makes this an exciting read. At least to me.

Anyway, here you'll find information about the original family that owned Haut-Brion (Pontac), how in the 1600-1700s Graves red wines were more favored by the British middle class than anyone, and how Pontac even open a tavern called The Pontac's Head in London after the great fire of 1666. "Haut-Brion in particular and Graves wines in general came to define for the English the characteristics that a wine of quality was expected to possess."

Of course we could all go to www.hautbrion.com and click the forums link and read the answer. But that would be too easy.

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Kenneth O'Farrell

Fri Apr 2 2004 at 07:46:21 (597)

What is the origin of the name Haut Brion? Does it mean anything, e.g., a place, a person, or a thing?

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Château Haut-Brion

Fri Apr 9 2004 at 11:45:21 (598)

The name "Haut-Brion" is the name of a place name where we you can find 4 growths which are : Château Haut-Brion, Château La Mission Haut-Brion, Château La Tour Haut-Brion and Château Les Carmes Haut-Brion. The origin of the name of this place name dates back the Middle Ages when it was meaning "mound" or "hill". We hope that our answer comes up to your expectations. Jean-Philippe DELMAS

[Adam Balic]

So maybe as with most myths and legends there is some truth behind the story.  Interestingly I read that Haut Brion  was the first wine to market itself with the name of the winery.

According to the Larousse Encyclopedia of Wine (1994) pg.137,

Haut-Brion was the first wine estate to sell its wine under its own name, as a branded product, when its owner had it shipped to London in 1660.

←

That's pretty good marketing as by April 10, 1663 Pepys wrote "There I drank a sort of French wine called Ho-Bryan (sic) which hath a good and most particular taste which I never before encountered....."

My memory is that this is just after the period when that the red wines of Bordeaux changed from fairly simply and pale wines (hence "Claret" = clear, light, bright, modern French = "clairet") to more modern type wines (although fully modern type wines proberly had to wait until corks where used).

[docsconz]

I don't know about Haut Brion to O'Brien.  Haut in French means "high."  I don't know what Brion means, if it's someone's name, or something else. 

I'm actually surprised you guys don't know this, as it's pretty common knowledge in the wine world: the original owner of the vineyard had a strong affinity for Chateaubriand, and the name Chateau Haut-Brion is actually a pun on this.

... and if you believe this I have some swampland in Florida to sell you

←

I was goinig to stomp all over this until I saw the last line. You should have saved this for April 1.

The origin of the name of this place name dates back the Middle Ages when it meant "mound" or "hill".

If you want some details about Bordeaux check out Dewey Markham Jr's book, 1855 A history of the Bordeaux classification. This is the best historical wine book I've ever read. The political maneuvering alone makes this an exciting read. At least to me.

Anyway, here you'll find information about the original family that owned Haut-Brion (Pontac), how in the 1600-1700s Graves red wines were more favored by the British middle class than anyone, and how Pontac even open a tavern called The Pontac's Head in London after the great fire of 1666. "Haut-Brion in particular and Graves wines in general came to define for the English the characteristics that a wine of quality was expected to possess."

Of course we could all go to www.hautbrion.com and click the forums link and read the answer. But that would be too easy.

----------------------

Kenneth O'Farrell

Fri Apr 2 2004 at 07:46:21 (597)

What is the origin of the name Haut Brion? Does it mean anything, e.g., a place, a person, or a thing?

----------------------

Château Haut-Brion

Fri Apr 9 2004 at 11:45:21 (598)

The name "Haut-Brion" is the name of a place name where we you can find 4 growths which are : Château Haut-Brion, Château La Mission Haut-Brion, Château La Tour Haut-Brion and Château Les Carmes Haut-Brion. The origin of the name of this place name dates back the Middle Ages when it was meaning "mound" or "hill". We hope that our answer comes up to your expectations. Jean-Philippe DELMAS

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Thank you for your fine research. I still like the O'Brien myth, though! It is more romantic So what if it is not true ?