Q&A: Braising

[Fat Guy]

The saucepans are the thickest Calphalon pieces. My Dutch ovens and saucepan are from the same Calphalon series -- Professional Nonstick II -- and the saucepan has got to be twice as thick as the Dutch ovens. I wish they made all Calphalon pieces super-thick. I remember the original anodized aluminum Calphalon pieces, very beefy and with those great flat handles. Since then, every Calphalon design "innovation" has been a step backwards.

FYI, check out this link: The International Dutch Oven Society.

Also, 12" Anodized Aluminum Dutch Oven from Clavey River Equipment: "These new 12" Dutch Ovens offer the cooking qualities of cast iron but with half the weight." Could just be hype, but the theory does seem at least somewhat sound.

[slkinsey]

I agree with that, but I might also suggest that the "real world" may be making the wrong choice based on tradition rather than engineering: it is possible that a superior braising vessel could be made out of anodized aluminum and would be half as heavy (not to mention probably half as expensive) as its enameled cast-iron equivalent. And while the walls would be beefy, it's not as though they'd be a foot thick.

It's definitely true that one could construct an aluminum braising vessel that would have the same heat capacity as a similar iron braising vessel with the same internal dimensions without getting too whacky with the thickness. I did a few calculations and came up with the following:

• To have the same heat capacity, the body of an aluminum pan has to be 45% thicker than the body an iron pan
  
• However, since iron braising pans have heavy lids that increase the overall thermal mass considerably while aluminum braising pans do not, an aluminum braising pan has to be twice as thick as an iron braising pan to have the same thermal capacity.
  
• At the same heat capacity, the iron pan will weigh almost twice as much.
  
• With the lid removed, the iron pan weighs about 50% more than the aluminum pan.
  
• With a representative amount of braising material inside (e.g, 5 cm of liquid in an 28 cm diameter x 14 cm height casserole) the iron pan is around 55% heavier than the aluminum pan with the lid on, and around 27% heavier with the lid off.
  

In the real world, of course, even a seemingly small difference like 27% can be significant because it is the absolute differences that matter. If one loaded pan weighs 4.5 pounds more than the other, that is likely to be what matters most when someone is trying to lift the pan. This is overall an advantage for aluminum.

That's just the heat capacity, however. To my mind, there is an advantage to be gained in low/slow cooking by having a cooking vessel with lower thermal conductivity. For most any cooking task there are one or two optimal combinations of heat capacity and thermal conductivity. If we make the iron and aluminum vessels have the same heat capacity, then the main variable is thermal conductivity (3003 aluminum alloy is around 1.63 W/cm K compared to 0.8 for iron). On the other hand, some people love clay and ceramic for braising. These materials don't have anywhere near the heat capacity per cc of iron and aluminum, but may make up for that in the context of oven braising by having extremely low thermal conductivity.

My other nitpick with anodized aluminum is that it's extremely difficult to keep clean. This is something that will become a factor in the context of low/slow dishes where food items may cook on to the surfaces of the pan for a long time. One of the nice things about enameled cast iron is that you can soak it overnight in the sink and most everything will come off. With anodized aluminum, I find that I have to scrub and scrub and scrub and scrub to get it clean.

[Fat Guy]

Most anodized aluminum cookware comes either with anodized aluminum lids or with stainless steel lids. My glass-lidded Calphalon Professional Nonstick II cookware is a difficult-to-find exception.

I don't have a totally firm grasp on how a vessel's heat capacity relates to the metal's specific heat capacity and the construction of a Dutch oven. I understand that twice as much of the same metal will give the vessel double the heat capacity, but in terms of practical effect I'm not sure what that means for a braise. For example, what is the relevance of the lid's thermal capacity? Is the lid somehow radiating heat back into the environment of the vessel's interior? I thought the idea of the lid was mostly just to keep the steam in -- assuming it wouldn't crush it, if you put a 5-pound iron lid on an aluminum foil braising tray, would that increase in overall vessel heat capacity actually make a big difference?

Also, just as the liquid and pot contents contribute to weight, they should contribute to heat capacity. Water has a pretty good heat capacity, I think. I wonder if, the more braising liquid you use, the less the vessel matters.

I'm also wondering whether there's a point at which enough is enough in terms of heat capacity. For example, a 15-pound iron pot may braise better than a 5-pound iron pot, but will a 500-pound iron pot braise any better than the 15-pound one?

In terms of thermal conductivity, I'm wondering how this becomes important. In an oven, it should be a pretty minor consideration within reasonable tolerances. On the stovetop, it would seem to promote even heating but be problematic on electric cooktops that cycle -- again assuming the cycle speed and conductivity combine to make a difference.

[ahr]

Some questions that occurred to me over the course of the seminar:

Did the immersed parts of partially immersed samples differ in texture and/or taste from the fully immersed samples? From the interior of the unimmersed parts of the same samples (to discount for greater exterior caramelization)?

Was the crappiness of FG's foil-tray samples due to a higher ratio of liquid to total vessel volume? If not, then what?

Why is it assumed that temperature stability during cooking (i.e., a vessel with high heat capacity) is beneficial, when reheating experiments showed that cooling and reheating improved flavor? Perhaps fluctuation is a good thing, so long as the high end does not substantially exceed a simmer.

BTW, my old MagPro pots have cast-aluminum covers substantially heavier than the flimsy things accompanying Calphalon, All-Clad, and similar current cookware.

[slkinsey]

I don't have a totally firm grasp on how a vessel's heat capacity relates to the metal's specific heat capacity and the construction of a Dutch oven.

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here. A cooking vessel's overall heat capacity is determined by the specific heat and the amount of the materials of which the cooking vessel is composed. Since iron has a higher specific heat than aluminum by volume, a 1x10x10 cm piece of iron at a given temperature holds more thermal energy than a 1x10x10 cm piece of aluminum. In order for the aluminum piece to hold the same amount of thermal energy, it would have to be 1.45 cm thick.

FWIW, technically a "Dutch oven" is not really what we're talking about. Those are designed (usually with feet and a special lid) to be used in cooking with live coals.

I understand that twice as much of the same metal will give the vessel double the heat capacity, but in terms of practical effect I'm not sure what that means for a braise.

Here's something that I had posted earlier:

I then thought about parallels in other types of cooking, and realized that in baking the mass/thermal capacity of a baking surface makes a big difference. Given a 300 degree F oven, a thin metal cookie sheet performs very differently from, say, a baking stone. The reason for this, as I understand it, is that the baking stone absorbs heat from the oven and radiates it into the food, whereas the thin metal sheet mostly just transfers the ambient heat. As a result, there is  what appears to be an amplification of heat.

It's actually a little more complicated than that. Theoretically, a hot baking surface (thin sheet or thick stone) conducts (not radiates) heat into the cookies. How much heat it conducts into the cookies depends on how much heat it can hold. Since the thin cookie sheet has a minimal heat capacity and the baking stone has a high heat capacity, the stone conducts way more heat into the cookies. As a result, the cookies on the preheated stone should cook much faster (and much more on the bottom).

This is for a hot baking stone, though. What about a cold stone put into a hot oven? Well, the flip side of thermal capacity is that the higher the capacity, the longer it takes to fill up with heat. If a cold thin cookie sheet and a cold baking stone go into the oven, there is a good chance that the cookies on the thin sheet will bake faster. This is because the stone has to suck up a lot of heat before it can effectively conduct heat back into the cookies (for a while it may actually absorb heat from the cookies). I have experienced this phenonenon many times while baking pies because I have a metal pie pan (low thermal capacity) and a ceramic pie pan (higher thermal capacity). The pie in the metal pan always cooks faster.

How does this translate into oven braising? It could work in several ways.

First, the pans with a higher thermal capacity work to keep the heat more even as the oven cycles on and off. Some people noted that the liquid in the foil container stopped simmering when the oven door was opened. This is because, when the oven stopped pouring heat into the cooking vessel, the foil container didn't have stored heat to fall back on and maintain the heat.

Second, unlike when baking cookies, the braising vessels are in the oven long enough to come up to temperature completely long before the food is finished cooking. This means that they are all "filled up" with heat and conducting heat into the food inside, which is more efficient. It is likely that the heavier pans gave plenty of heat to the food items by direct conduction from the pan to the meat (as opposed to from the liquid to the meat), whereas the thin pans didn't have any extra heat to give this way.

Third is the question of thermal conductivity. Boria_A noted that his copper vessel came up to temperature the fastest and stayed the hottest. This is not a surprise, because copper has excellent thermal conductivity at around 4.01 W/cm K. The aluminum and iron vessels also appear to have heated very well (it's harder to say much about the ceramic and pyrex vessels because they are much smaller than their metal counterparts). For the foil vessels, the metal part is so small and inconsequential in terms of thermal capacity relative to the contents that the thermal conductivity is effectively the thermal conductivity of the contents: mostly water. Well, water has terrible thermal conductivity, coming in at around 0.0058 W/cm K.

The transfer of heat from the oven to the cooking vessel by conduction through the air and by radiation is incredibly inefficient. So it appears that there may be a real advantage to having a cooking vessel that is able to store a lot of heat and thus "free itself" from the constraints of this method of heat transfer, and instead rely upon its own inherrent heat properties to cook the contents inside of it.

For example, what is the relevance of the lid's thermal capacity? Is the lid somehow radiating heat back into the environment of the vessel's interior? I thought the idea of the lid was mostly just to keep the steam in -- assuming it wouldn't crush it, if you put a 5-pound iron lid on an aluminum foil braising tray, would that increase in overall vessel heat capacity actually make a big difference?

When the pan is all of one (or reasonably similar) construction, the thermal capacity of the lid effectively adds to the thermal capacity of the cooking vessel. It's all available heat that can be conducted from the lid down to the sides, etc. The lid does radiate some heat back into the environment, but I am not sure that this is nearly as significant as the contribution to the overall thermal capacity. The problems with the "iron lid with aluminum tray" model are 1. that it isn't all of one construction; and 2. that the most important part is the weakest part in terms of thermal properties. If, on the other hand, you added a 5 pound iron lid to a cooking vessel with reasonably good and reasonably similar properties (e.g., thick cast aluminum) it would make a difference, I think. The other advantage of a heavy lid is that it is more effective at keeping the steam inside.

Also, just as the liquid and pot contents contribute to weight, they should contribute to heat capacity. Water has a pretty good heat capacity, I think. I wonder if, the more braising liquid you use, the less the vessel matters.

By mass, water has an excellent heat capacity. In fact, as explained above, it is the reference standard: water has a specific heat of 1. By volume, however, water's specific heat is nov very good. It's still 1, whereas aluminum 3003 alloy has 2.44 J/cm^3 K and iron us up at 3.53. This is because aluminum and iron are much more dense than water. The Law of Dulong and Petit relates thermal capacity to density in telling us that most materials have the same heat capacity per mole.

You are correct, however, in suggesting that it is possible to use enough water to largely mitigate the differences between otherwise similar cooking vessels made from different materials with respect to oven braising. I think it would end up being a lot of liquid, though. Your experiment used far less than the real-world amounts in the various cooking vessels you tested, not really using them the way they were designed to be used. This may be one reason behind some of the observed differences. It's possible that the aluminum and iron casseroles, and perhaps even the foil tray, would produce much more similar results if each one had held 20 short ribs in 5 cm of liquid instead of 2 short ribs in 1.5 cm of liquid. FWIW, I am not entirely convinced we would find wide differences had the various cooking vessels been fully loaded.

I'm also wondering whether there's a point at which enough is enough in terms of heat capacity. For example, a 15-pound iron pot may braise better than a 5-pound iron pot, but will a 500-pound iron pot braise any better than the 15-pound one?

Yes, there is obviously a reasonable limit (although having an infinite heat source would theoretically be ideal). But we have to be careful not to do the old reductio ad absurdum thing. It's possible that a 30 pound braising pot would perform better than a 15 pound one with the same volume capacity. There does come a practical limit, of course. In the real world there is a tradeoff with thermal conductivity and heat capacity. A 500 pound iron pot would be prohibitively difficult to heat and would therefore probably be a less effective braising pot.

In terms of thermal conductivity, I'm wondering how this becomes important. In an oven, it should be a pretty minor consideration within reasonable tolerances. On the stovetop, it would seem to promote even heating but be problematic on electric cooktops that cycle -- again assuming the cycle speed and conductivity combine to make a difference.

Well, clearly it is important on the stovetop. How important it is in the oven is more difficult to say. The principle behind using a high thermal capacity/low conductivity cooking vessel is that once it hits the target temperature, it likes to stay there. Also, if two cooking vessels have the same heat capacity and different thermal conductivity, the vessel with lower thermal conductivity should come up to temperature more slowly all other things being equal. How significant this is in the context of an oven's extremely inefficient heat transfer is more difficult to say.

[Fat Guy]

I might have to order one of these: the retailer I always recommend for stockpots, A. Best Kitchen, has heavy duty "braziers" made from 3004 aluminum alloy in a thickness of 6.4 mm -- that's a little more than 1/4". The 8-quart is only $49, plus $8.94 for the lid if you want it, which I don't because it takes a 10" lid and I already have more 10" lids than I can shake a stick at. Seems they're offering free shipping on this item as well.

Then again, I might have to order one of these: there is a super sale on the Calphalon 8.5-quart "saucier" at Amazon right now. Only $33.88, and free shipping. The claimed list price on this pot is $180.

[slkinsey]

I might have to order one of these: the retailer I always recommend for stockpots, A. Best Kitchen, has heavy duty "braziers" made from 3004 aluminum alloy in a thickness of 6.4 mm -- that's a little more than 1/4".

6.4 mm is an awesome thickness for aluminum. Unfortunately I wouldn't recommend this for braising because it's raw aluminum. Well, to be more precise I wouldn't recommend it for braising if you ever want to braise using anything acidic, like wine, tomato paste, etc. Even most meat stocks are somewhat acidic, coming in at atound pH 5.5 (7 is neutral). This is the real weakness of aluminum. You can often find aluminum at amazingly thick gauges and at ridiculously low prices... but raw aluminum is very reactive and therefore has a lot of limitations.

Then again, I might have to order one of these: there is a super sale on the Calphalon 8.5-quart "saucier" at Amazon right now. Only $33.88, and free shipping. The claimed list price on this pot is $180.

Seems like a good deal for people who like Calphalon. I don't know why they call it a "saucier" when it's clearly not for making sauces (looks like a rondeau to me), but that's neither here nor there. Of course it's probably only about half as thick as the Johnson Rose casserole, and I would have serious concerns about warping at that size if you use it to brown meats on the stove. On the other hand, it is more compatible with acidic products than the Johnson Rose casserole.

[Smithy]

What does "3004 aluminum alloy" mean, and might it be less reactive than raw aluminum?

[slkinsey]

What does "3004 aluminum alloy" mean, and might it be less reactive than raw aluminum?

The aluminum used in cookware is typically not pure aluminum, rather it is aluminum alloyed with other metals. The "3000 series" aluminum alloys are the ones most commonly employed in non-cast aluminum cookware. The other metals presumably make the metal easier to work with and may provide other desirable properties (e.g., hardness), but they also unfortunately reduce the thermal conductivity somewhat. Here is the composition specification for a 3003 and a 3004 aluminum alloy:

  3003 Aluminum Alloy                  3004 Aluminum Alloy
Component        Wt. %               Component        Wt. %
----------------------               ----------------------
Al           96.7 - 99               Al         95.5 - 98.2
Cu          0.05 - 0.2               Cu            Max 0.25
Fe             Max 0.7               Fe             Max 0.7
                                      Mg           0.8 - 1.3
Mn             1 - 1.5               Mn             1 - 1.5
Other, each   Max 0.05               Other, each   Max 0.05
Other, total  Max 0.15               Other, total  Max 0.15
Si             Max 0.6               Si             Max 0.3
Zn             Max 0.1               Zn            Max 0.25

For the most part, when we say "aluminum cookware" we are really saying "aluminum alloy cookware." And while the alloys may be less reactive than pure aluminum, they're still plenty reactive.

[zeitoun]

Sorry if i'm chiming in a little too late however I would like to begin by saying that this is the first seminar I have been reading along since it began. Even though I have not participated in it (and I hope to next time), I found it so informative and enlightening on many aspects. Thanks Fat Guy and everyone else for your participation and intense labor!!

My question has to do with parchment lids during braising (if this was discussed anywhere, please direct me towards the appropriate link). I have seen many recipes call for it in both stovetop and oven braising. I assume regular lids were used during all the EGullet braising labs, yet I was hoping to see some commentary on the benefits and disadvantages associated with the use of parchment lids instead. From what I have observed during my braising experiences, it seems that parchment lids do allow more braising liquid to evaporate than regular tighter lids. In addition, I have always assumed that they were of greater use in the oven since they prevented whatever piece of meat not submerged to remain somewhat moist and not to crust. Yet, and as I stated earlier, their use is also suggested for stovetop braising. Could anyone tell me what is the primary reason for the use of parchment lids vs. regular lids in braising?

[fifi]

I decided to try some chicken, investigating some of the original lab premises.

The pots: The first question I want to address is the pots. Do the pots have any real effect on chicken? I will be using the little Le Creuset, a Corning Ware dish of comparable size, and a cheap foil pan with a foil cover. (I am skeptical about the foil thing, but, oh well.)

How many days: The second question is, does the “next day rule,” or even the “third day rule” hold for chicken, or at least this chicken. I will be using Paula Wolfert’s technique of straining and storing separately and reheating slowly from the cold state.

The chicken: This will be a new experience for me. My local HEB grocery had some lovely thighs that are a new brand, Smart Chicken. It is processed with cold air instead of water and states that there is no water added. It is also all vegetable and grain fed, no meat by-products and no antibiotics. (I am so relieved. The mental picture of little cannibal chickens with bones through their beaks has always been disturbing to me.) They seem to be more dense and firm than your usual grocery store chicken and the skin is beautiful. I normally get rid of the skin when braising chicken, but this was really pretty and I will go with snowangel’s suggestion to leave it on, brown it really well, and remove it later.

The recipe: I started with the recipe from Molly Stevens, “Quick Lemony Chicken with Prunes & Olives.” Of course, I am going to tamper with it. I chose it because it is spookily close to a recipe that my dad developed years ago for a stew he called picadillo. I made some substitutions and additions to Molly’s recipe to approximate my dad’s carefully crafted recipe. I pretty much stuck with Molly’s proportions since my weight for chicken thighs was about the same and I went with my dad’s seasoning since his weight was about the same as well. We shall see.

2 tablespoons olive oil

2 tablespoons chicken fat (could use butter)

8 Chicken thighs, about 3 ½ pounds

Kosher salt

½ cup all purpose flour

1 ½ teaspoons paprika, I used Pimenton de la Vera

1 teaspoon ground cumin

1 teaspoon ground black pepper

½ medium onion, diced

3 garlic cloves, sliced

1 ½ cups white wine

¼ cup white wine vinegar

½ cup green olives thickly sliced (I used a spiced version)

1 tablespoon capers in vinegar, rinsed

Rind from ½ preserved lemon, rinsed and diced

In a large skillet, start to heat the olive oil and chicken fat.

Lightly salt the chicken thighs. Keep in mind that olives and such will be adding salt.

In a large zip type plastic bag (I use a 2 gallon), mix the flour, paprika, cumin and black pepper. Put the chicken thighs in and toss to coat. Shake off excess flour and put into the pan to brown, skin side down. Brown well. Turn and brown the other side. Remove to a plate.

Sauté the onion in the pan and begin to deglaze with the onion. When the onion is translucent, add the garlic and cook a few more minutes. Add the wine and vinegar and stir to get all of the brown bits into the liquid. Add the olives, capers and finely diced preserved lemon.

In the braising pot, distribute the liquid mixture over the chicken pieces. Liquid should come about half way up the chicken. Braise at 250 degrees F.

(Obviously, for this test, I used a large frying pan to brown the chicken and then distributed the pieces into my test pots. You could perhaps use a large Dutch oven and do this as a one pot deal.)

Here we go with the chicken in the pots.

All pots go into the same oven.

After one hour, the chicken in the Le Creuset seems to be noticeably tenderer than in the Corning Ware. The tin pan is more like the Corning Ware. We need more time.

After 1 ½ hours total oven time, I am ready to store for day 2.

After snitching scraps of chicken meat, I would proclaim the Le Creuset ready to eat. (Oh . . . Good . . . Lord! This is GOOD!) The Le Creuset thighs had a hard time holding together while being lifted into the storage container with the tongs. The Corning Ware and tin pan thighs held together fine during the lifting. They were certainly edible but not as melting as the Le Creuset. The flavor of the liquid was the same from all three pots. The liquid from the Le Creuset was maybe a little thicker but that could be due to more surface area on those particular thighs (the flour coating) so I am discounting it. I didn’t deem any of that significant so I combined the liquid from the three pots into one storage container. I will probably have to add some liquid for day two. I did. I thinned with about a half cup of water before chilling.

Day 2: Now, what to do with the skin? Did I mention that I HATE braised chicken skin? I removed it at this point. After the reheating, the Le Creuset is still amazingly succulent. No improvement really. How can you improve on perfection? The Corning Ware improved a bit but such a little bit that I am convinced that a little longer cooking time on day 1 would have done the same thing. The tin pot is still the same. No succulence there. I may run the skin under the broiler and crisp it up to eat as cracklin’s. Hey! Maybe I could use that as a garnish. Stay tuned.

Day 3: No change. I give up. Time to eat.

Served with plumped golden raisins (plumped with white wine), chicken skin cracklin’s and toasted almond slivers. I added the almond slivers because that is what dad did with the picadillo. Also, I toasted them in the little bit of chicken fat that came off of the chicken skin. As for the raisins, I substituted those for the prunes in Molly’s original recipe because I don’t like prunes. And I didn’t even add the raisins in during the cooking. Dad’s original picadillo had the golden raisins added in during the cooking. Certain family members (like me) really didn’t like the sweet note so he started plumping them separately and serving them with the almonds as a garnish. I would add some to my bowl and that was ok for a few bites but I didn’t like them for the whole meal. That is why I did what I did with them here.

This side by side comparison has convinced me of the value of heavy cast iron. My only regret is that I didn’t have a real clay pot to play with. Bottom line, you can get a perfectly acceptable dish with something as cheap as a disposable tin pan. You can also use the ubiquitous Corning Ware and get a perfectly acceptable dish. But the Heavy Metal rules! The Le Creuset produced a succulent, fabulous dish on Day 1 with 1 ½ hours in the oven. And there was a substantial difference. It was not subtle. I know that many of you think that I am prejudiced about cast iron in general and Le Creuset in particular. But I can assure you that, throughout this exercise, the objective scientist in me ruled. I am actually surprised at the difference and somewhat baffled as to why that should be.

The reheating regime did not substantially improve the texture of the meat from the Corning Ware or the tin pot. The texture of the Le Creuset thighs didn’t change either. It stayed excellent. This is not to say that this doesn’t work with other things, like beef. I have done that and it worked. I have also had reheating improve a pork recipe. I am just not seeing any difference with chicken thighs. From now on, I will braise chicken thighs in my Le Creuset, eat it on day 1 and be done with it. If they seem to need improvement, I will do the reheating anyway with hope in my heart.

And . . . I will try this recipe in a clay pot when I get the pot of my desires and will be prepared to be blown away.

I have to say that I have really enjoyed playing with this recipe as a tribute to my dad.

[k43]

Which Enameled Cast Iron Pot?

OK, I'm convinced. An enameled cast iron braising pot will join my collection. While no one mentioned size, I'm assuming 5 quarts. Please let me know if you used the 4 or 7 quart size.

Le Creuset is criticized for its high price and phenolic handles. However, the other brands seem to be in the same ballpark. MSN and Amazon give the following prices:

Le Creuset (5-1/2) $185

Staub $159

Lafont $154

Lodge (enameled) $140

Calphalon Pro NS II $133

Any opinions on the Lafont or Lodge?

With the prices this close, the difference doesn't matter to me. Will the extra 1/2 quart capacity of the Le Creuset make any difference?

On the other hand, the glass top on the Calphalon, and the ability to braise on the stovetop, is tempting.

KRS

[slkinsey]

All these pots will work just fine on the stove. Personally, I think Staub is the best. Heavier construction. I think the matte black enamel is better for browning. And I think the "basting spikes" are cool. But they'll all do well, I think. It's a matter of preference.

[fifi]

As to the size of the pot, the LC in my pictures is actually a 2 1/2 quart but I am cooking for one and am working on cutting down recipes. (I love the little bugger.) But, the one that my friends and I find the most versatile is the 6 3/4 quart oval. It holds a whole chicken, pork roast, beef chuck, etc. quite nicely and works for beans and stews and such for a group as well. Folks also like the 5 quart oval but I found it a little tight for some things and gave it to a friend who was drooling over it. (I owed her a favor.)

[andiesenji]

For anyone who is interested. There is a 7-quart Lodge Logic Dutch oven going for a very reasonable price on ebay with 4 hours to go.

ebay Lodge Logic pan

These have been rated very good by several reviewers and the price is right!

I just want to add that I have purchased several things from this vendor and have never had a problem.

They have a lot of kitchen gadgets (which I collect) and appliances and I have gotten them at very, very good prices. PM me if you want any further info.

Edited February 28, 2005 by andiesenji (log)

[Blondelle]

There are also less expensive options. Staub makes a 5 qt. pot called Staub Basic that is sold on QVC. It has had great reviews. It's less than $50. You can see it at:

Staub Oven

Also do a search for Innova Color Cast on Amazon. A lot of the people using it have both that and the Le Creuset and say it compares favorably.

Which Enameled Cast Iron Pot?

OK, I'm convinced.  An enameled cast iron braising pot will join my collection.  While no one mentioned size, I'm assuming 5 quarts.  Please let me know if you used the 4 or 7 quart size.

Le Creuset is criticized for its high price and phenolic handles.  However, the other brands seem to be in the same ballpark.  MSN and Amazon give the following prices:

Le Creuset (5-1/2)  $185

Staub                      $159

Lafont                    $154

Lodge (enameled)    $140

Calphalon Pro NS II  $133

Any opinions on the Lafont or Lodge?

With the prices this close, the difference doesn't matter to me.  Will the extra 1/2 quart capacity of the Le Creuset make any difference?

On the other hand, the glass top on the Calphalon, and the ability to braise on the stovetop, is tempting.

KRS

←

Staub Pot

[Blondelle]

I've really enjoyed reading about the braising experiments, and also the photos showing the progress along the way, as well as the finished products. I looked forward to daily reading all the new posts. There was so much info though to absorb. Will there be another post summarizing the findings from all these experiments, as to the best vessels, cooking methods, best temps, best amounts of liquid, best braising liquids etc.? I think that would be very informative and helpful to many people, as there were so many threads to follow. Thanks much :-).

Please post questions and comments about the braising seminar here. All members are welcome to post here, whether or not they have completed the labs.

If you have results related to the labs, please use the individual lab discussion threads for those.

Thanks.

←

[k43]

I've really enjoyed reading about the braising experiments, and also the photos showing the progress along the way, as well as the finished products. I looked forward to daily reading all the new posts. There was so much info though to absorb. Will there be another post summarizing the findings from all these experiments, as to the best vessels, cooking methods, best temps, best amounts of liquid, best braising liquids etc.? I think that would be very informative and helpful to many people, as there were so many threads to follow. Thanks much :-).

Here is the summary I made as the week went along:

POTS

– An enameled cast iron (ECI) Dutch oven is best. However, avoid LeCreuset, which is overpriced and has phenolic handles that deteriorate in heat (or get old, metal-handle ones on eBay). Staub is just as good (maybe even a bit heavier) and has metal handles. A matte black surface seems to work best.

ECI cooks faster than other materials. It's not easy to clean, so brown the meat in a sauté pan and deglaze the pan thoroughly into the cooking vessel.

– Copper works very well, but ECI holds, transfers and evens out the heat better.

– Calphalon Professional Nonstick II Anodized Aluminum is almost as good as ECI, has a glass lid and metal handles, produces a good fond and is easy to clean. The best choice overall, and works well on a stovetop braise.

– unglazed clay works well, and the result seems to improve more on subsequent days.

– Corningware (ceramic without metal) gives good results but is slow.

– heavy metal meatloaf pans, very well sealed with foil, are OK for small batches but must be airtight – not as good as ECI, so make a full recipe and keep it for later days, when it’s better anyway.

– Stainless steel clad aluminum is next, Pyrex is poor, and a foil tray is dreadful (and very slow).

- Do NOT use unclad aluminum, which is very reactive, even without acidic ingredients such as tomatoes.

SEALING

Sealing the lid keeps the liquid from evaporating and enhances the cooking. The ancient method is to apply a flour/water dough between lid and vessel. Lifting the lid breaks the seal, so you have to know your oven perfectly. The modern method is to put a double layer of aluminum foil between lid and vessel. Lifting is easy, and the seal is almost as perfect. Parchment paper may also work.

MEAT

Tough, fatty cuts are essential, since the connective tissue breaks down and enriches the sauce. Bones are helpful. Short ribs or flanken (boneless short ribs) are good, and shin and oxtail are even better, with more gelatin. Shoulder and breast of lamb are good.

Starting with frozen meat is just as good as thawing.

SALTING

From André Guillot, a famous French chef: lightly salt the meat the minute you bring it home. You will hardly need to salt later, and you’ll use half as much salt as you would normally. Lightly salted meat will tenderize and mature in flavor when stored overnight in the refrigerator.

After salting, coat the meat lightly with grape-seed oil, which will keep it from drying out; Some blood will run out, but this is insignificant.

BROWNING

A non-non-stick pan on the stovetop is best, since non-stick prevents formation of fond. Cast iron is perfect. Under the broiler is hard to control and can dry the meat out. Unbrowned produces good results, but a different, soft texture on the bottom. The part above the liquid line is identical, browned or not.

For large cuts (e.g., brisket), skip the browning and uncover for the last 1/2 hour.

LIQUID

Wine alone is too strong, especially when reduced. Worth using perhaps 1:3 with stock? The solution is to deglaze the browning pan with wine.

Water is weak and blah.

Stock is by far the best, made even better by adding demi-glace.

Covering the meat leaches out the browning and creates a boiled color and taste.

Standard advice is halfway up the side of the meat, but just 1/2" is even better and gives more tender results.

Beer might be OK.

Mirepoix (carrot/onion/celery) dilutes the flavor and makes the sauce taste like stock. If you must, toss some in during the sauce reduction process. If you use stock as the braising liquid, they’re already in it.

The alternate Tom Colicchio (Grammercy Tavern) stovetop method: when you have LOTS of stock, skip browning, pour stock almost to the top and cook uncovered on the stovetop, turning every ½ hour to keep drying one side while moistening the other.

STOVETOP VS. OVEN

A heavy pot with a tight seal gives excellent results on the stovetop. With the Calphalon glass top, it’s much easier to monitor and handle, too. However, steady heat, coming from all sides in the oven, as in ECI, is perhaps a little bit better

COOKING TEMPERATURE

Low heat (200) results in a little less shrinkage, but no difference in flavor. It’s not worth the much longer cooking time (5 hours still not enough for heavy pork ribs).

Preheat the oven to 325. After 1/2 hour, if the liquid is more than barely trembling, turn it down to 300 or 275. Thus reduces the sauce better and increases caramelization. However, 300 is necessary to melt the collagen and get a proper braise.

CLARIFYING THE SAUCE

From Paula Wolfert. Strain the sauce, pressing down on all the solids with the back of a spoon; cool the entire sauce down; remove all the fat that rises; put the remaining liquid (scum and clear) in a small wide saucepan; and set over heat to bring to a boil. Now, shove the saucepan half off the heat and cook at a slow boil, skimming off all the scum-like solids that rise to the top on the cool side of the liquid for about 10 minutes, or until reduced enough to coat a spoon lightly.

PROCEDURE

1. Brown the meat well. with a small amount of oil, 1 to 1-1/2 min. on each side. A plain cast iron pan works better for this than E/CI or non-stick.

2. Don’t pack the vessel too tight – 1" between pieces and between the meat and the side.

3. Use only a little liquid. The standard is halfway up the side of the meat, but even better is ½" deep.

4. Cook very slowly in the oven.

5. Don't cook the meat to mush. A fork should go in easily and release easily but grip the meat slightly, and the fork holes shouldn’t stay open. For short ribs, 2 hours is about right.

6. Refrigerate, skim the fat and eat the next day.

REHEATING

Always better the next day, and there are significant improvements on the following day.

Reheat uncovered at 275 in a shallow, ovenproof serving dish, to deepen the flavor. Turn once while reheating.

[Blondelle]

Thanks so much for the summary. I'm going to save it to refer to for my first braise. I'm really surprised though at the poor showing for All-Clad, as Cooks Illustrated rated the A-C 8 qt. stockpot a better braising vessel than Le Creuset. There is one tiny discrepancy in your post. In one part you mentioned browning in nonstick to avoid the formation of a fond, while at the end, in the procedure section you mention a cast iron pan is better than nonstick. Thanks much for posting your notes, as it was very helpful to me, and I'm sure to others too.

I've really enjoyed reading about the braising experiments, and also the photos showing the progress along the way, as well as the finished products. I looked forward to daily reading all the new posts. There was so much info though to absorb. Will there be another post summarizing the findings from all these experiments, as to the best vessels, cooking methods, best temps, best amounts of liquid, best braising liquids etc.? I think that would be very informative and helpful to many people, as there were so many threads to follow. Thanks much :-).

Here is the summary I made as the week went along:

POTS

– An enameled cast iron (ECI) Dutch oven is best.  However, avoid LeCreuset, which is overpriced and has phenolic handles that deteriorate in heat (or get old, metal-handle ones on eBay).  Staub is just as good (maybe even a bit heavier) and has metal handles.  A matte black surface seems to work best.

ECI cooks faster than other materials.  It's not easy to clean, so brown the meat in a sauté pan and deglaze the pan thoroughly into the cooking vessel. 

– Copper works very well, but ECI holds, transfers and evens out the heat better.

– Calphalon Professional Nonstick II Anodized Aluminum is almost as good as ECI, has a glass lid and metal handles, produces a good fond and is easy to clean.  The best choice overall, and works well on a stovetop braise.

– unglazed clay works well, and the result seems to improve more on subsequent days.

– Corningware (ceramic without metal) gives good results but is slow.

– heavy metal meatloaf pans, very well sealed with foil, are OK for small batches but must be airtight – not as good as ECI, so make a full recipe and keep it for later days, when it’s better anyway.

– Stainless steel clad aluminum is next, Pyrex is poor, and a foil tray is dreadful (and very slow).

- Do NOT use unclad aluminum, which is very reactive, even without acidic ingredients such as tomatoes.

SEALING

Sealing the lid keeps the liquid from evaporating and enhances the cooking.  The ancient method is to apply a flour/water dough between lid and vessel. Lifting the lid breaks the seal, so you have to know your oven perfectly.  The modern method is to put a double layer of aluminum foil between lid and vessel. Lifting is easy, and the seal is almost as perfect.  Parchment paper may also work.

MEAT

Tough, fatty cuts are essential, since the connective tissue breaks down and enriches the sauce.  Bones are helpful.  Short ribs or flanken (boneless short ribs) are good, and shin and oxtail are even better, with more gelatin.  Shoulder and breast of lamb are good.

Starting with frozen meat is just as good as thawing.

SALTING

From André Guillot, a famous French chef: lightly salt the meat the minute you bring it home. You will hardly need to salt later, and you’ll use half as much salt as you would normally. Lightly salted meat will tenderize and mature in flavor when stored overnight in the refrigerator.

After salting, coat the meat lightly with grape-seed oil, which will keep it from drying out; Some blood will run out, but this is insignificant.

BROWNING

A non-non-stick pan on the stovetop is best, since non-stick prevents formation of fond.  Cast iron is perfect.  Under the broiler is hard to control and can dry the meat out.  Unbrowned produces good results, but a different, soft texture on the bottom.  The part above the liquid line is identical, browned or not.

For large cuts (e.g., brisket), skip the browning and uncover for the last 1/2 hour.

LIQUID

Wine alone is too strong, especially when reduced.  Worth using perhaps 1:3 with stock?  The solution is to deglaze the browning pan with wine.

Water is weak and blah.

Stock is by far the best, made even better by adding demi-glace. 

Covering the meat leaches out the browning and creates a boiled color and taste.

Standard advice is halfway up the side of the meat, but just 1/2" is even better and gives more tender results.

Beer might be OK.

Mirepoix (carrot/onion/celery) dilutes the flavor and makes the sauce taste like stock.  If you must, toss some in during the sauce reduction process.  If you use stock as the braising liquid, they’re already in it.

The alternate Tom Colicchio (Grammercy Tavern) stovetop method: when you have LOTS of stock, skip browning, pour stock almost to the top and cook uncovered on the stovetop, turning every ½ hour to keep drying one side while moistening the other.

STOVETOP VS. OVEN

A heavy pot with a tight seal gives excellent results on the stovetop.  With the Calphalon glass top, it’s much easier to monitor and handle, too.  However, steady heat, coming from all sides in the oven, as in ECI, is perhaps a little bit better

COOKING TEMPERATURE

Low heat (200) results in a little less shrinkage, but no difference in flavor.  It’s not worth the much longer cooking time (5 hours still not enough for heavy pork ribs).

Preheat the oven to 325.  After 1/2 hour, if the liquid is more than barely trembling, turn it down to 300 or 275.  Thus reduces the sauce better and increases caramelization.  However, 300 is necessary to melt the collagen and get a proper braise.

CLARIFYING THE SAUCE

From Paula Wolfert.  Strain the sauce, pressing down on all the solids with the back of a spoon; cool the entire sauce down; remove all the fat that rises; put the remaining liquid (scum and clear) in a small wide saucepan; and set over heat to bring to a boil. Now, shove the saucepan half off the heat and cook at a slow boil, skimming off all the scum-like solids that rise to the top on the cool side of the liquid for about 10 minutes, or until reduced enough to coat a spoon lightly.

PROCEDURE

1. Brown the meat well. with a small amount of oil, 1 to 1-1/2 min. on each side.  A plain cast iron pan works better for this than E/CI or non-stick.

2. Don’t pack the vessel too tight – 1" between pieces and between the meat and the side.

3. Use only a little liquid.  The standard is halfway up the side of the meat, but even better is ½" deep.

4. Cook very slowly in the oven.

5. Don't cook the meat to mush. A fork should go in easily and release easily but grip the meat slightly, and the fork holes shouldn’t stay open.  For short ribs, 2 hours is about right. 

6. Refrigerate, skim the fat and eat the next day.

REHEATING

Always better the next day, and there are significant improvements on the following day.

Reheat uncovered at 275 in a shallow, ovenproof serving dish, to deepen the flavor.  Turn once while reheating.

←

[k43]

Actually ... I wrote "non-non-stick" -- a pan without a nonstick coating.

[Smithy]

Actually ... I wrote "non-non-stick" -- a pan without a nonstick coating.

←

That's a problem in terminology, isn't it? I'm tempted to call it a "stick" pan, but that gives the wrong idea as well.

Good summary, k43.

I have at least one minor quibble with your summary: in my experience the Le Creuset was not difficult to clean, although it looked like it would be. I did not, nor would I in the future, brown the meat in another pan and then transfer it with the deglazing liquid to the LC. One or some other posters said it didn't brown as well as stainless steel, but that was not my experience either.

[fifi]

I will second the LC easy cleaning. The most awful looking burned on mess cleans up after a few minutes soak with hot water and Dawn. Only occasionally have I had to resort to Dawn Power Dissolver. And that was after I did something really stupid. I do get an occasional stain that comes out with about 15 minutes of a soak with chlorine bleach solution.

I just looked on the LC web site and they have changed the wording a bit but they used to recommend setting your burner one notch lower than usual. It does take a little longer but it browns stuff just fine. The only time I don't brown in the LC is if I am in a hurry and want to use my big fry pan so I don't have to do two batches. I have also recently learned in another braising thread about browning short ribs in the oven. Now there is an idea.

My sister has a LC that is at least 25 years old. It has the original knob. I have never replaced one, either. I do like the older design, though. It just looks cooler.

[Wolfert]

I thought the summary was terrific. Thank you so much.

I would like to add a few points that somehow got lost along the way and I think could be helpful to those who like to braise in earthenware and want browned meat to start it off.

I use a shallow heavy bottomed (berndes) pan to brown meat in batches before adding them to a braising pan. (This allows me to use my earthenware daube which coddles the meat in a braise to perfection.)

I heat the empty skillet until really hot, then add the fat or oil, and that sizzles, I immediately add just seasoned cubes of meat. I work in batches and the browning goes very fast. I never have trouble cleaning this particular skillet. IN fact, I can deglaze it and add those browning juices to the daubiere as well.

This method keeps in all the meat juices. If you brown meat cubes in a hot oven, you risk drying out the meat no matter how hot the oven.

The only time I broil meat cubes before braising would be when I am using oxtails for a braise. Their odd shape screams out to be broiled rather than skillet browned.

Also, I noticed the overnight separation of meat and juices was dropped from the summary. I think that methoc really makes a difference in the texture and flavor.

Another comment I would like to add. In some Mediterranean countries, the meat to be braised is browned at the end of the cooking. For example check out recipes for most Moroccan lamb tagines.

Edited March 9, 2005 by Wolfert (log)

[Smithy]

I thought the summary was terrific. Thank you so much.

I would like to add a few points that somehow got lost along the way and I think could be helpful to those who like to braise in earthenware and want browned meat to start it off.

I use a shallow heavy bottomed (berndes) pan to brown meat in batches before adding them to a braising pan. (This allows me to use my earthenware daube which coddles  the meat in a braise to perfection.)

I heat the empty skillet until really hot, then add the fat or oil, and that sizzles, I immediately add just seasoned cubes of meat. I work in batches and the browning goes very fast. I never have trouble cleaning this particular skillet. IN fact, I can deglaze it and add those browning juices to the daubiere as well.

This method keeps in all the meat juices. If you brown meat cubes  in a hot oven, you risk drying out the meat no matter how hot the oven.

The only time I  broil meat cubes before braising would be when I am using oxtails for a braise. Their odd shape screams out to be broiled rather than skillet browned.

Also, I noticed the overnight separation of meat and juices was dropped from the summary. I think that methoc really makes a difference in the texture and flavor.

Another comment I would like to add. In some Mediterranean countries, the meat to be braised is browned at the end of the cooking. For example check out recipes for most Moroccan  lamb tagines.

←

Thanks for adding those points, Wolfert. The separation of meat and juice during storage does seem to make a difference in texture and flavor. Another practical benefit I've noticed is that it's much easier to get the congealed fat off the juice if there isn't meat cluttering up the container.

Would you please expand a bit on the idea of browning at the end of the braise? Is that done by leaving the lid off and turning the meat as the liquid reduces? Is this a stovetop or oven technique, or both? I like the idea that it saves me from having to mess up a pan for browning when I plan to braise in a clay pot. What difference does it make to the final product whether the browning happens at the beginning or the end?

Moderator's Note: We've split Wolfert's response to this question and the posts that followed into a separate thread on Moroccan tagine cooking. Click here for that discussion.

[fifi]

I have gotten the pots of my dreams . . . Black Chamba, an unglazed clay from Columbia. And, let me add, it is all Wolfert's fault that my Amex card is now lying, pitifully wheezing, on my desk. (Actually, these things are a remarkable bargain.) So, with pots in hand, I am going to braise some chicken.

I am using a recipe that I have done dozens, maybe hundreds of times. I chose it because I have done it so often, I should be able to detect a "clay pot effect" even though this is not exactly a scientific comparison.

The recipe originated with a friend's treasured cook and housekeeper about 30 years ago. We call it Lily Mae's Chicken. It couldn't be simpler. Lightly brown seasoned chicken pieces, or not. (Lily Mae didn't if she was cooking for 100 at the summer house across the lake.) Mix up enough sauce to provide liquid about half way up the chicken: 1 part good olive oil, 1 part fresh squeezed lemon juice, 2 parts dry white wine. Add as much garlic as you can peel. Braise at about 250 to 275 degrees F until meltingly tender, about 2 1/2 to 3 hours, basting intermittently and taking the lid off for the last half hour or so. You can add other seasonings if you like. I do from time to time and that might be capers, olives, some herb mix, minced preserved lemon to kick up the lemon flavor.

Just to demonstrate the main pot and its babies, and to show that I am doing it "Wolfert's Way," this is a shot of the main pot ready to go into a cold oven and turned on to 250 degrees F. (That is just my preference.)

That is the 2 quart bean pot and the 2 cup individual casseroles. Under the parchment are four chicken thighs with about a cup and a quarter of the sauce, a head of garlic and a couple of tablespoons of capers. I did sprinkle on some Greek Seasoning I got at Penzey's because it caught my eye and seemed like a good idea at the time. (It was.)

It was done after about 2 1/2 hours. A few notes: With the parchment, I didn't do the usual basting. As it turns out, I didn't need to. In braises like this, I quit peeling garlic a long time ago. I just whack a head in half and dump it in. It isn't hard to pick the peels out after cooking. Perversely, I actually enjoy doing that.

I have just been remembering that russ parsons, back in the dried bean thread, noted that his epitaph will read "Did not soak dried beans" or something like that. Well, mine will say "Always cooked four chicken thighs." Hey, it works for me, remember I am now cooking for one.

Anyway, having strained and stored, I am ready for the reheat step. This is where the baby pots come in. My strategy is to store the meat and liquid but be prepared to reheat in individual servings. In these pots or for a normal serving I would normally reheat two thighs. Unfortunately, I kept picking at the darn things and only had one presentable thigh left. Oh well, that is all I want for lunch anyway.

Here we go with the jelled juices and a bit of the olive oil. I put the cover on and into a cold oven, turned to 250 degrees F and it was done in 30 minutes.

Houston, we have lunch!

Final verdict? Clay pots produce absolutely excellent chicken. And, they are so darn pretty. Parchment paper gave me the same results as the usual basting for this recipe. I am now a believer. I can't wait to try this with beef short ribs. It also occurs to me that the milk braised pork would look fabulous in the black pots, and then there is that beef short rib recipe with pieces of red tomato, then . . .

Uh oh. Here is hoping that I am not at the beginning of another serious pot addiction.