Grand Sichuan International

[Felonius]

Admin: 2004 Discussion of Grand Sichuan International may be found here.

Following a recommendation frin the Fat-Guy site, I had dinner last night for the first time at Grand Sichuan (the midtown location at 50th and 9th ave.).  As usual, Steven was right on target with his rave review.   <p>Overview of dishes ordered:<p>Wonton soup - an excellent rendition of this standard, very delicate and flavorful dumpings.   Overall, a bit mellow for my taste, but my date ordered this as she doesn't like particularly spicy food.<p>Sichuan dumpling with chili oil - I think this is what I ordered, either this or it was the Sichuan version of wonton soup.  Anyway the waiter recommended it and it was about the best ?.00 I've ever spent in my life (the regular wonton soup is only ?.50!!).  Basically it was the same dumplings as in my date's wonton soup, but they were bathed in a small pool of reddish brown chili-infused oil/sauce.  A wonderfully spicy counterpoint to the mild dumplings.  Also it was just spicy enough to have some kick, but not too spicy for those diners who have tender palates.<p>Sichuan pork with chestnuts - recommended by the waiter as a milder dish to try.  Quite good, but a bit simple for my taste (my date loved it though).  The pork was cooked to a point where excess fat had been reduced, but was still tender, reminiscent of good chinese duck preparations.   <p>Kung Pao chicken - WOW!  For anyone who loves sichuan food and has had the good fortune to try the real thing in China, look no further.   Chicken was very flavorful and succulent.  The fresh peanuts perfectly crunchy, not mushy or mealy as they often can be.  The spice mix of ginger and chili peppers mingled perfectly in a rich brown sauce, which was supplied in just the right amount to coat the chicken but not overwhelm it (as is far too often the case in Chinese restaurants).  Beware if you do not like spicy food, as this dish has a slow burn that quickly mounts to a crescendo of chili heat.  My date found it too hot, but I loved it.  This is how the dish is served in China, and I was glad to finally have food that wasn't "dumbed down" for the American market.  Now if only I could find a Thai or Indian place that does the same!   Note that when properly done, the chili heat is not there for heat's sake alone - it is a  wonderfully flavorful and intense aspect of the dish for those who like spicy food.  The key is to get the complexity and chili flavor balanced with the heat, which Grand Sichuan has done in this case.<p>My date and I each had two courses, with more food than we could eat, along with beer.  Total tab before tip ?.00.   We could have easily split one main dish and gotten out of there for ? had we had the same level of desire for spicy food.<p>Overall - very friendly and efficient service, bargain prices, and superbly executed food.  If I lived in the neighborhood I'd probably eat there several times a week.   The atmosphere is nothing special (rather bright lighting and generic decor), but at these prices who the #### cares.  Note that if you want the spicy Kung Pao chicken, ask the waiter to show you the special chicken dish section at the back of the menu - otherwise you may accidentally order a milder version of the same from the "americanized" section in the front of the menu.<p>A must visit for those seeking real Sichuan food.  Thanks to Fat-Guy for another great recommendation!

[Jason Perlow]

Ah yes. The kung pao chicken at Grand Sichuan. There is nothing else like it anywhere in NY.

[Fat Guy]

And I would like to thank Eric Asimov, who told me about Grand Sichuan -- though I will take credit for specifically publicizing the kung pao (kung bao on that menu) chicken.

[lullyloo]

Mmmmmmm.  Yes, thank you, Steven.  I took my mother and brother there after reading your review.  I was never a big fan of Kung Pao Chicken in regular Chinese restaurants but this was a completely different and outstanding dish.  Finally a dish I didn't have to add extra chili sauce to!

I would also recommend the many vegetarian options there.  My brother is vegetarian, so we ordered a few.  They have a wonderful variety of Chinese vegetables (not your run of the mill American veggies prepared with gloppy oyster sauce), also pea shoots, spinach and asparagus.  We ordered the Chinese broccoli - a huge portion came.  They were very fresh and stir-fried a bright green crisp-tender - without any noticeable sauce or grease but extremely flavorful and spicy.  I can't wait to go back.

[Jason Perlow]

just remember we are talking about Grand Sichuan International Midtown on 50th and 9th. Its not related to the Grand Sichuan downtown.

[Fat Guy]

It is related to the one in Chelsea, which is also very good. It used to be related to the one in Chinatown, but my understanding is that it is no longer.

[foodgeek]

I ate at the Grand Sichuan location in Chelsea a couple of weeks ago, and wasn't crazy about the food. The soup dumplings were great, but all the other dishes I had (pumpkin soup, dan dan noodles, king pao chicken) had both good and bad elements to them. I was comparing them to Lion Pavillion (when it was good.)

Saturday night I brought a small group to the 51st Street location since I have often heard on chowhound.com that it is the better Grand Sichuan location.

The food was much better that the 24th Street location, with the exception of the soup dumplings which were soupless.  

Some higlights:

The beef in chile sauce was excellent and very spicey (yay). The shredded duck w/string beans was good. The soup dumplings were very tasty even if they were soupless. The scallion pancakes were interesting. I even liked the seseme chicken although it wasn't an item I chose.

I will definitely be going back to try more dishes.

[Fat Guy]

Both branches have their partisans. I've been to each several times and found some inconsistency at both places. Uptown is probably a bit better on the whole, though not every time.

[Mao]

If anyone is interested, Kung Pao is actually pronounced Gong Bao.  There are two commonly used formed of romanizing Chinese sounds into English.  Wade-Giles was the first popular romanization scheme used in Nationalist (pre 1949) China and still loosely employed in Taiwan today.  Pinyin is the official romanization scheme employed in the PRC.  The Wade-Giles rendering of the Chinese dish is Kung Pao, and the Pinyin version would be Gong Bao, though the Chinese pronounciation is the same in either case.  Both romanization systems have their weaknesses and strengths, and ironically Gong Bao is the perfect word to highlight Wade-Giles's weaknesses. If Kung Pao were pronounced as most people think it should sound in English, that is Kong Pao, the Wade-Giles for this would be K'ung-P'ao.  If I recall correctly, the Chinese means something like "Palace Treasure Chicken"

The dish is a pretty ubiquitous (almost standard) dish all over China, not just in Sichuan, though the best version of it that I have had has been in Beijing.  

[Fat Guy]

Mao, I'd actually be interested in hearing a lot more about Chinese food terminology and pronunciation. I encourage you to post such information as frequently as you can, whether in response to another post or just because you have something interesting to tell us. Thanks!

[georgegeorge99]

Does anyone have additional recommendations for dishes to try or avoid?  The Fat Guy's review mentions but a single dish, though in great, respectful detail.

[Fat Guy]

If you feel the need to order more than one dish, order several portions of kung pao chicken!

[Jason Perlow]

The shredded Dried Sauteed Sichuan Beef is also really good there, as is the Ma Po spicy tofu and dan dan noodles.

Its kind of hard to screw up there.

Kung Pao is still what draws me, though.

[wingding]

A few weeks ago,I had a dish at Grand Szechuan uptown called sizzling rice with pork.I think that the cooked rice must have been deep fried very quickly in really hot oil,and brought right to table,with pork in a brown sauce.It was delicious,and not too greasy.I also love the dumplings in red chili oil.

[Bux]

I haven't seen sizzling rice dishes on menus in a while. Some forty years ago when I was first introduced to Chinatown there was a restaurant in the basement on Doyers Street that featured sizzling rice. It's long been gone.

[Wilfrid]

I ate Kung Pao frog last week.  It was at a Malaysian restaurant, the name of which escapes me:  it's on the west side of Baxter Street right opposite the entrance to Bayard Street - big windows, tropical decor, you can't miss it.  They have quite a long list of frog dishes, as well as some fish head stews and other unusual items.  Some of the food I have had there has been a little sweet.  The kung pao frog was medium hot, and slightly tricky going with the small bones and dried chili pods, but I was happy to have eaten it.

I only mention that in case you're all tired of kung pao chicken.

[mamster]

I reviewed Grand Sichuan earlier this year:

http://www.mamster.net/food/restaurants/nyc2001.html

To sum up, I loved the auxhou chicken (which was basically fresh chicken with a thousand szechuan peppercorns) and the shrimp in szechuan sauce (related to but leagues better than the similar-named dish found on every Chinese menu), but the real standout was this simple celery salad which they called Growing Grass in Spring Must Be Like Green and Threaded Silk.  Seriously.

[Fat Guy]

All this talk of Grand Sichuan motivated me to head there last night for an inspection. I'm pleased to report that standards are still being maintained. This is great -- and unusual -- news. Few restaurants persist at such a high level of vibrancy beyond the opening-months burst. Grand Sichuan may be a lifer.

We started with the Sichuan pickled cabbage. This is just about the best spent ũ.50 that exists in a Chinese restaurant. It's nothing particularly complicated -- just cabbage and a few kinds of peppers, pickled to medium-crisp (I assume with sugar and salt as well). It's also available in a Ū.00 version with spicy red oil, but it's quite piquant without that addition.

Along with that we had two of the roast pork buns. These are the best I've had anywhere. Not that the bread itself is remarkable (I've never had a Chinese bread product I thought was impressive), but the big chunks of tender pork inside just scream with that sweet pork flavor you rarely see anymore. In general Grand Sichuan does a great job with pork because it uses very fatty pork, and cooks it until much of the fat is gone, resulting in a tender and moist end-product. This is the whole point of pork. But the American consumer has somehow been duped into wanting lean pork, which is little better than the denatured protein they eat in science fiction movies.

We also had the "Green Parrot with Red Mouth," which is a mildly dressed green with some red coloring at the ends of the stalks. I didn't ask about it in detail -- does anybody know the exact composition of this dish? Also nice for warming up the palate.

Finally the dumplings in red oil. Nice, thin-skinned potstickers swimming in soy-based dumpling sauce and hot chili oil. This or the dan-dan noodles are de rigeur starters here.

For entrees, kung pao chicken and chicken with hot peppers (green ones). Both from the freshly-killed chicken menu (makes a big difference because it is "not long time refrigerated"). King pao is all dark meet and the other is all white, so it's a nice contrast to get both.

Also the sautéed pea shoots. Again, I'm usually unimpressed by Chinese-restaurant vegetable dishes, but the Grand Sichuan kitchen is very strong on this front: Cooked al dente and not swimming in oil.

Finally, a dish from a relatively new page of the menu: Sichuan spicy soft-shell crabs. Really outstanding, big soft-shells in great condition, pretty much just flash-fried with a huge quantity of dried red peppers. I felt as though there should have been a recycling bin for the peppers, since they easily could have seasoned ten more portions of this dish.

Did I mention there were two of us? The waitress after taking our order said, "You realize you have five appetizer and four main course?" I said I had counted four appetizers, but she observed that she was counting each of the two pork buns separately. A fair point.

All this plus two beers each came to ๥ and change with tax but before tip (left 贄 even).

[macrosan]

Reminds me of the very first Chinese meal I ever had in the USA. An (English) friend and I found a restaurant at random in Mott Street. We chose the dishes we wanted as we were used to doing in England. I was halfway thru placing our order with the very large and smiling waiter when he stopped me and asked "You very hungry, mister?". I replied in the affirmative, and he said "I bring you this. You want any more, you ask and I bring it no charge".

Boy, was he ever right. That was my introduction to US-size portions.

[anil]

FG wrote "All this talk of Grand Sichuan motivated me to head there last night for an inspection...."

Hmmm, we were there too same night. This was our first Chinese meal in NYC after a nine-night 3-1/2 meals a day, feasting in HKG/MAC (HongKong & Macau).

So we ordered the spiciest with a vengence - DanDan Noodles, Spicy Crabs,Marinated Cabbage with Chili,Spinach with ginger&garlic (This is No: 1 on the list the special menu in the back, and No: 4, Diced Chicken with chilli and scallion)

We talked a bit about a  few dishes I had in HKG and the waitperson said that next time I wanted that - I should call in the morning in advance to have it ready by dinner.

[Fat Guy]

Anil: Do you recall what time you were there? Did you notice the guy eating alone who ate the whole fish? I had to respect that.

[anil]

Quote: from Fat Guy on 9:38 pm on Dec. 8, 2001

Anil: Do you recall what time you were there? Did you notice the guy eating alone who ate the whole fish? I had to respect that.

Between 7:45 - 8:00. I do not carry a watch. We were too self absorbed in ourselves, and I had come from a cocktail hour else where :)

[tommy]

we went searching for Little Szechuan last night.  i heard it was great and cheap.  however, when we arrived at 5 e. b'way, we saw dimsum go-go.

does anyone know if Little Szechuan is still around?????

thanks.

[Budinado]

I greatly appreciate the Fat Guy's informative recommendations but also recognize that food tasting is a highly subjective experience. My field trip to Grand Sichuan Int. Midtown was very positive overall and the restaurant was definitely authentic and competent considering all the dishes sampled.

I was especially eager to try the Kung Bao chicken from the special menu as this is one of my all time favorites, sampled with delight at scores of retaurants. Grand Sichuan's rendition was, unfortunately, a major disappointment. Chinese chicken is normally delicious, but the dish was so heavily overspiced with hot chillies that critical tasting became impossible. The sauce was too sweet, too thick, and generally cloying. Its orange brown color was another turn offf. My wife, the daughter of a master Chinese chef was equally turned off. Sorry Fat guy, but on this one (and on pizza!) we have to part company.

So what IS the best for Kung Po? My pick goes to Jade Palace in Flushing (163-14 38 Ave) Queens. I invite all eGullet tasters to sample both and report back your vote in this forum. While at Jade, sample the lobster with ginger and scallion (my favorite dish there).

(Edited by Budinado at 10:25 pm on Jan. 27, 2002)

[Fat Guy]

Another of my most Chinese-food-knowledgeable friends hates the kung pao/bao/whatever chicken at Grand Sichuan. And I think with him, as is probably true in your case, issues of authenticity are foremost. I've spent so little time in Asia that I can't possibly judge authenticity, so I don't try. Perhaps if you travel to wherever this dish originated, and you find the person making the most authentic rendition, it won't taste anything at all like what they serve at Grand Sichuan. I just think the dish they serve there is good, and that seems to be the consensus of the people I normally look to as a reality check (including some folks I consider to be aficionados of Sichuan cuisine). I'm always wary of the information I get via e-mail, but too many people have written to me, expressing an eternal debt of gratitude for turning them on to this dish at Grand Sichuan, for it to be just a quirky preference on my part. As for spiciness masking the taste of the chicken, that perception can vary a lot from person to person. To me, it's not a question of how much heat, but rather the balance between heat and other flavors. In this dish, I enjoy the counterpoint of heat and sweetness -- I don't see it as too much of either.