Lunch

[Suvir Saran]

Where does one go to eat a good Indian meal at lunch time.  

What does one order?

How does it affect the workday?

Any different from the many other options one has?

[anil]

Where does one go to eat a good Indian meal at lunch time.  

What does one order?

How does it affect the workday?

Any different from the many other options one has?

Is this in India ? or indian meal at lunch outside india ? I'm confused  :confused:

There is not much of a choice in cities outside india, except for a few big ones.

[Jinmyo]

Most Indian restaurants that I have encountered have buffet steam tables at lunch time. I've tried but I just can't eat anything that (visibly) came from a steam table.

I've tried ordering from the menu but the staff get all shirty about it.

[Suvir Saran]

I deliberately left the topic loose so we can discuss it across many cities...

Anil lets begin with the major cities around the globe where you know of good lunch venues.

And jinmyo.. where are you eating these lunches, where waiters are not happy serving from the menu.  One would think they would want to make more money... duh... Silly waiters.

Perhaps the chefs are lazy and give the servers a hard time.. that could be a reason for the server not being too thrilled.

[jhlurie]

The question this is leading to may indeed be... can a buffet style lunch (Jinmyo's "steam tables") EVER measure up to a freshly prepared item?

The "obvious" answer is no.

But turn the question around a bit.  Are these buffet lunches ever good enough to be more worth the money, and yet still edible?  I know we "foodie" types generally aren't supposed to talk about about economics, but I certainly can imagine people asking for lunch buffet recommendations for that reason.

Actually... in my experience Indian food "holds up" better in a buffet style than most other food, especially compared to Chinese food.  That's not a ringing endorsement of Indian buffet, just an opinion that there are worse things.

Still... give me a menu instead most days.

As for the "shirty" staff, Jinmyo, I'm sure they were used to having a bit of a break at lunch time.    And YOU ruined it.  

And Suvir, I'm not sure that the logic that they should want to make more money holds up.  I'll bet that the buffet makes more money for them if they push consumption of it by a high enough volume of their customers.  

In other words, the attitude may be coming from the owners, not the chef or the wait staff.  Doubtless, volumes of material have been published on the economics of buffet style service... and I'm counting on one of our food egg-heads like Fat Guy or Bux to find references to it, since I'm lazy.

Still, the attitude is absolutely inexcusable.

[Suvir Saran]

Economics of it are better I agree... but with a guest wanting foods off the regular menu, often one has increased likelihood of other sales... wines, water, desserts, teas etc.. and these are what would excite some owners.. but I am talking about the higher end restaurant... but I suppose, when  you have a buffet, you have a short staff and are wanting to drive your sales through quick volume and you are correct in your statement.

[jhlurie]

I wonder.  I've been in some reasonably expensive Indian restaurants in New York who STILL felt obligated to have lunch buffets.  

Do the numbers still work for a $18 buffet in what is normally an expensive place, as oppossed to a $8 buffet in a more moderate one?

[Suvir Saran]

I once was a partner in a higher end Indian restaurant.  The lunch numbers did not make any sense.  And our lunch buffet, which we had to have at the request of the customer and a point that may have led to my parting ways with the others involved in that concept, was $25.00 many years ago.

The buffet did help the food cost, but a lunch ticket of $50- $80 per person would make us all smile.

And Indian food does fare better in buffets, I think it has such large amounts of sauce in so many dishes, that it can stay fresher longer in those chafing dishes.  I find the idea of eating a buffet very sad.

But many in NYC love them for lunch and expect it when thinking Indian.  We need to see that change as Indian food becomes more known in NYC.

[Simon Majumdar]

Suvir

Do you find buffets sad or the sort of buffet offered in restaurants at lunch time sad?

Buffets play a large part in indian food, from the array of chat offered in homes when guests come to visit, to the vast groaning tables that appear whenever there is cause for celebration ( which can be anything from a Tendulkar century to a marriage ) these buffets can often be extraordinary depiction of the glories of a region.  I mentioned before a family wedding where a buffet was offered with the best dishes from each of he neighbouring villages.  Cooks from each village had been sought to cook their finest

The lunchtime buffet in restaurants is however just a means of saving time, and limiting choice.  If you know you are going to cook 10 dishes and people can take their pick it makes your life a lot easier.  It depends on the restaurants if this is any good.  In Brick lane it is invariably abysmal.  In the Bombay Brasserie, it is often better than their evening offerings.

[Bux]

the economics of buffet style service... and I'm counting on one of our food egg-heads like Fat Guy or Bux

Please, egg-heads are above both financial considerations (although you could pay me to be concerned) and buffets.

If nothing else, I can offer an impartial view of Indian food. I know next to nothing about it. Most of what I've had has not been very good, but it's been exotic and not without its temptations. A lot of the Indian food I've had has been (intentionally) over cooked by western standards. The same can be said for middle eastern food and if the truth were told, when you move away from haute cuisine, the French tend to over cook vegetables. All that aside, much of the food I've had would not suffer at a hot buffet. Chinese stir fries, on the other hand, should be a disaster. One sees Italian pasta buffets all the time, or the equivalent fast food service. Clearly if one had to have a buffet, Indian food has to be a thought.

I wish I knew the range of the cuisine to know how sad it is that Americans associate Indian food with all you can eat buffets. I suspect it's sad, but that may be my prejudice against buffets. I feel the same dispair (well alright, that's much too strong a word) about how Chinese food is thought of as take out.

[Suvir Saran]

I have just finished cleaning from a buffet like dinner I had at our home tonight.  For my cook book editor and agent.  While we did not have any chafing dishes.. The food was served without being plated..... What we call family style.  It is the only way I like hosting Indian dinners.  It makes for very sensuous tables and very happy guests.

Restaurant buffets are very sad.  And a shame.  They do very little justice to the cooking.

And yes, Indian food fares much better at the buffet table than other cuisines generally.

Bux, some Indians compare the American need to eat raw vegetables of undercooked vegetables as a certain bovine tendency on their part.  Some Indians believe Americans to be like cattle, eating anything as they graze.

[Simon Majumdar]

Suvir

Would you be happy to share with us the dishes you cooked for P at your dinner last night.

It would be an interesting contrast to my own experience at one of London's oldest Indian restaurants last evening ( see UK board )

I would love to know what dainty dishes you put before the Queen of US cookery publishing

S

[Suvir Saran]

Simon,

She ate a very humble meal.  We were testing the rice chapter.. and I had a very full weekend.  I was embarassed that it was not all that I would have liked to share with her.

Rassam ( South Indian Soup )

Pakoras - spinach and scallions

Chaat Paapri - street food from India

Indian Fruit Punch

Shrimp Stir Fry

Malikaye Masoor Kee Daal

Lamb Biryaani ( a secret recipe that will be shared in the book)

vegetable biryaani

3 Desserts

I am not sharing the details as it would take away from the charm of  the book to be.

The Queen of Publishing, ate a humble meal.. but I feel lucky to have her editing my book.  SHe knows so much about Indian food.  And about food in general.  Makes me feel safe and protected.

[Bux]

Of course food hot from the stove on the buffet may be closer to a platter passed around at the table than to a buffet in a restaurant.

I understand the views from other cultures quite well. The trick is developing a plalate that will allow you to appreciate both foods, or perhaps the foods of an even wider variety of cuisines.

[Jinmyo]

I must admit that most of the Indian food I have ever had in restaurants, if that was all I had ever had, would have left me with a very bad impression of the cuisine. It can be difficult to determine what the vegetables actually are, what the meat is, because they are so thoroughly cooked out and so heavily spiced. With food like that, steam tables probably make little difference.

But continued heating in chafing dishes for subtly nuanced Indian food is abominable.

I think that family style service is very appropriate to the style of food and would like to see it used when possible in restaurants.

[Simon Majumdar]

Suvir

I am sure that the meal was presented and received with great humility, but it sounds anything but humble.

As I said before, your book could not be in better hands.  When is it planned for publication and do they know to whom they will be selling the rights in the UK?

S

[Suvir Saran]

Simon,

The manuscript is due this fall and it is due to be out next fall.  I am not sure of the UK rights issue.  May be too early yet, dont you think?  But I am sure PK must have an idea.

[Simon Majumdar]

It is never too early to be selling Co-editions Suvir.  I am working on books with my US clients for 2004.

The costs on such things are so high, particularly with the exhorbitant fees we have to pay our authors that in the UK at least, we have to make sure to run at least the US edition along side our printing to make it work.

Such grubby things as business aside, I am more dismayed to think that I will have to wait over a year to have your recipe for Lamb Biryaani.

[Suvir Saran]

The recipe for the lamb biryani is wonderful and unlike any you would find in books... without garlic or onions.. it is amazing.. very subtle and will make you happy you waited.

Maybe you can ask PK about this... she would be happy hearing from you.

She has just as much to say about you.. and nice things.. as you have for her.

Mutual admiration I see.