High End Kitchen Design on a Budget?

[azlee]

Maybe you could post links to the cabinets styles you are considering?  Perhaps something similar in a brand that could handle the weight could be found.

Maybe a floorplan as well.  I just keep thinking there has to be room for some standard size stuff in there somewhere!  :-)

-john

←

I'll try to get some links to cabinet styles up in the next couple of days. Does anyone know if there's a good floorplan software for Macintosh? Thanks

Azlee

[jongchen]

planning on Stainless countertops. If I go with Ikea, what do folks suggest? I'm worried that natural stone may be too heavy for the Ikea cabinets. Thanks

←

I have Ikea cabinets and Quartz countertops. The Quartz is approximatly 1" thick all the way around and very dense. In other words it's really heavy. The cabinets supports the weight just fine. The Ikea cabinets may be inexpensive but they are very well constructed (especially for the price). My contractor has done many kitchens with Ikea cabinets and natural stone contertops and he hasn't had any problems.

Edited January 13, 2005 by jongchen (log)

[azlee]

I know for a fact that GE makes counter depth refrigerators because that's what I had planned to buy.  There are other brands, but I can't think of them at the moment.

Drimmer's (Coney Island Ave in Bklyn) opened a showroom in Manhattan not to long ago.  I think it's under the name of Manhattan Kitchen & Bath.  You might want to go there to look at appliances.

←

Thanks. The folks at Drimmer's recommended the Dacor gas range EGR30 and the Dacor convection/microwave/vent PCOR30, the Miele 18" Incognito dishwasher and the 30" wide Liebherr which is just about counter depth and quite a bit less than the Subzero 700TC. Does anyone have these appliances? I'm most curious about the Liebherr. Thanks

Azlee

[azlee]

Maybe you could post links to the cabinets styles you are considering?  Perhaps something similar in a brand that could handle the weight could be found.

Maybe a floorplan as well.  I just keep thinking there has to be room for some standard size stuff in there somewhere!  :-)

-john

←

I am considering the Ikea Applad white cabinets with Lansa handles and the Numerar legs. I'll try to find a link to post. Thanks

Azlee

[helenas]

For all things concrete and cool, check Cheng Design. So inspirational!

[jongchen]

I am considering the Ikea Applad white cabinets with Lansa handles and the Numerar legs. I'll try to find a link to post. Thanks

Azlee

←

I just finished my project using Ikea cabinets which I'll eventually get around to documenting. Be sure to order your cabinets MUCH earlier than you need them. I ordered my cabinets 6 weeks before I needed them (Late October) for a December 1 delivery. They delivered the vast majority of my order but I waited a long time for some items. Some side panels and doors weren't delivered until the Monday of this week Janurary 10 and I finally got my toe kicks tonight Janurary 12. But other than the delay the people at Ikea were great to deal with. They were all friendly and knowledgable. And for the items that were backordered and was shippiable via UPS they sent to me for free. Unfortunatly only a single item that I had backordered was UPS able but they tried.

[azlee]

I am considering the Ikea Applad white cabinets with Lansa handles and the Numerar legs. I'll try to find a link to post. Thanks

Azlee

←

I just finished my project using Ikea cabinets which I'll eventually get around to documenting. Be sure to order your cabinets MUCH earlier than you need them. I ordered my cabinets 6 weeks before I needed them (Late October) for a December 1 delivery. They delivered the vast majority of my order but I waited a long time for some items. Some side panels and doors weren't delivered until the Monday of this week Janurary 10 and I finally got my toe kicks tonight Janurary 12. But other than the delay the people at Ikea were great to deal with. They were all friendly and knowledgable. And for the items that were backordered and was shippiable via UPS they sent to me for free. Unfortunatly only a single item that I had backordered was UPS able but they tried.

←

Which cabinets did you choose and what type of countertops?

Best

Azlee

[Daddy-A]

Thanks. The folks at Drimmer's recommended the Dacor gas range EGR30 and the Dacor convection/microwave/vent PCOR30, the Miele 18" Incognito dishwasher and the 30" wide Liebherr which is just about counter depth and quite a bit less than the Subzero 700TC. Does anyone have these appliances? I'm most curious about the Liebherr.

I can't comment directly on the Liebherr ... but I have several clients who have them and they're all satisfied. They've all been installed within the last 5 years and I haven't heard anything remarkable about service issues.

Dacor ... I have the RSD30 (Preference dual fuel slide-in range). No complaints at all. I love the convection oven. The big benefit of the Epicure line is the 13,000 BTU Infrared Ceramic Gas Broiler! That truly is my only regret as the Preference ranges don't have the gas broiler.

I'd check with the building codes, by if you want to use the PCOR30 over a gas range, you'll probably have to raise it so there's at least 24" of clearance above the grills. This puts the bottom of the microwave at 60" above the floor, which IMO is too high to be useful. Add to that the safety issue of reaching over a flame to get your microwaved popcorn, the likelihood that the warranty on the microwaves touch controls will be voided since it's being installed above a gas range (gas exhaust corrodes electronics) and the fact that any microwave/hood combination does a lousy job of ventilation ... I'd reconsider this appliance

Buy a proper hood, and find a new home for the microwave.

A.

[jongchen]

Which cabinets did you choose and what type of countertops?

←

I used their Akurum cabinets in medium brown. That apparently is a very popular color. I was told that it being popular was responsible for some of my delays.

The countertop that I used was cambrian black quartz from http://www.cambriausa.com/ but I also considered Silestone which is avaliable from Home Depot, or Lowes. The price difference for the various contertops were minimal so I chose the people I liked the most.

[marinade]

Maybe you could post links to the cabinets styles you are considering?  Perhaps something similar in a brand that could handle the weight could be found.

Maybe a floorplan as well.  I just keep thinking there has to be room for some standard size stuff in there somewhere!  :-)

-john

←

I'll try to get some links to cabinet styles up in the next couple of days. Does anyone know if there's a good floorplan software for Macintosh? Thanks

Azlee

←

I was never crazy about over-the-counter floor plan software for PC and I can't speak for MAC. I'm in the process of a galley kitchen makeover to begin in the summer. I made a floor plan in Excel but any spreadsheet software can work. I formatted similar height and the width of the cells. Scaled the cells to 6" to ¼ “ cell ratio and ran the perimeter of my kitchen with window and door breaks to scale. Next I went to into Paint and sketched some cabinet and appliance boxes. Brought them into the spreadsheet and I had a working floor plan. Simple, easy and cheap!

[AzRaeL]

did bulthaup just get a lot cheaper?

there is no such thing as bulthaup on a budget ;)

AGA is freakishly expensive too, no?

Try the industric chic. Use a concrete counter top. Smoothen it if needed. Get a metal fabricator to copy the bulthaup look. Bosch is more branding than true grit. Try brands like Teka instead.

Linoleum is inexpensive and hard wearing.

[azlee]

did bulthaup just get a lot cheaper?

there is no such thing as bulthaup on a budget ;)

←

Well Bulthaup was only a possibility if I stayed within the kitchen's original 5x7.5 footprint, and it wasn't cheap but it was within my budget. I've come to my senses now and I'm going with Ikea and buying great appliances instead. I will still daydream about the 36" wide 80" tall stainless steel Bulthaup appliance garage. Gawd, it was beautiful.

[azlee]

I keep reading about Sub-Zero problems but everyone who I know that has one, is very happy. Maybe it depends which model. Also, I don't think any other manufacturer makes a 27" counter depth unit.

Check out Liebherr. They make good quality products in the dimensions you're looking for. Sub Zero is an excellent product too, but as is the base with exotic cars, the cost to repair them (non-warranty) are high.

A.

←

Thanks, the Liebherr CS1650 is now the front runner for my fridge!

[mikec]

Thanks! I think the GE ones are 36" wide, which is too big for my space. but if they make a 30" it could workout. I did go to Drimmer's Manhattan store for my bath fixtures, so I can check the kitchen appliance prices next time I'm in.

Azlee

←

GE Profile does make a 31" almost counter depth fridge (30 3/8 in deep). I forget the model number.

←

The problem is that most counters are 24" deep. I wonder if you received an incorrect spec on the GE.

[azlee]

Thanks! I think the GE ones are 36" wide, which is too big for my space. but if they make a 30" it could workout. I did go to Drimmer's Manhattan store for my bath fixtures, so I can check the kitchen appliance prices next time I'm in.

Azlee

←

GE Profile does make a 31" almost counter depth fridge (30 3/8 in deep). I forget the model number.

←

The problem is that most counters are 24" deep. I wonder if you received an incorrect spec on the GE.

←

Not sure if there was some misunderstanding. The largest width I can fit in the kitchen is 30-31" but I can only comfortably fit a fridge of that width if it's no more than a counter depth of approximately 24-25 inches. Those are fairly limiting requirements, I know.

Thanks

Azlee

[azlee]

I'm starting to explore Dacor Ranges in both gas and electric and wondered if folks were generally happy with Dacor?

Also saw some new cabinets at the fancy new Home Depot in Manhattan. "First Edition Cabinets" which are from Canada and "Dinovo Cabinets" which are made by Masco the company that manufactures Kraftmaid. The Dinovo Cabinets seem to be knock-offs of some of the sexiest qualities of Bulthaup, Siematic and Valcucine. Has anyone seen or used either First Edition or Dinovo cabinets. yet? Thoughts?

I'm also trying to get a sense of what's a good price per square foot for a stainless countertop with an integrated sink. As ever, any thanks.

Azlee

[jongchen]

I'm starting to explore Dacor Ranges in both gas and electric and wondered if folks were generally happy with Dacor?

Azlee

←

I have a Dacor electric range, RES30. The oven part is great. Very even and accurate heat. Previously my biscuits didn't brown evenly unless I rotated them. Not a problem any more. The range portion is okay. It dosen't seem that much more powerful than my cheapo GE electric coil range even though the specs says so. The thing that is nice is that the burners are offset from each other side to side so it's easier to fit multiple large pans on the stove. It is also a bitch to keep clean. But that I believe is the same for all smooth top ranges. The range surface is black. You can notice a single drop of grease on that thing from across the room (exaggerating). Unless you use the smoothing top range cleaner provided it also streaks like mad when you clean it. Oh yeah don't even consider the "back splash." The back splash was extra money and I have to say the stupidest looking thing that I've ever seen done to a stove. So if anyone is interested in a Dacor stainlessteel and black back splash it's all yours.

Definatly shouldn't be a concern for buying a range but the Dacor does come with two digital timers. They are annoying to use. You have a single up and down button to set the timer. I have no idea why. But you can set time as low as 5 seconds to many, many hours. The software tries to help you out and counts the seconds slowely at first and as you keep holding the button down it starts to count minutes and then hours. It's virtually impossible to get the timer anywhere close to your desired time. The real problem for me is that the display at first shows MM:SS then when you get more than 60 minutes on the timer it switches to HH:MM. It's very confusing. There is a tiny 'H' mark on the display that says if it's showing hours or minutes. I'm so busy watching the stupid time count up on the display that I never notice it.

Edited February 1, 2005 by jongchen (log)

[azlee]

A few complications have arisen, which have delayed the kitchen renovation. My Co-op Board seems reluctant to approve the wall removal to expand the space and I can't get a straight answer about installing a cooking gas line, so I plan to work within the existing 5x7 kitchen footprint, but this means that I will really have to commit to spending the extra for counterdepth appliances like an electric Dacor Range (Millennia) and Sub-Zero 700TC Fridge. Not sure what to do about the electrical supply. The present range and fridge have a 208 volt supply and most newer high end appliances require 240 volts. Is this a simple change for an electrician to make or am I tied to finding lower voltage appliances? Also, is it possible to install a single Fisher & Paykel Dish drawer directly below a sink in one 24" cabinet? I think I need to figure out the appliances first and then see what I have left over for cabinets. Suggestions? Scratch and Dent stores in the NY area? Thanks!

Azlee

[JohnN]

A few complications have arisen, which have delayed the kitchen renovation. My Co-op Board seems reluctant to approve the wall removal to expand the space and I can't get a straight answer about installing a cooking gas line, so I plan to work within the existing 5x7 kitchen footprint, but this means that I will really have to commit to spending the extra for counterdepth appliances like an electric Dacor Range (Millennia) and Sub-Zero 700TC Fridge. Not sure what to do about the electrical supply. The present range and fridge have a 208 volt supply and most newer high end appliances require 240 volts. Is this a simple change for an electrician to make or am I tied to finding lower voltage appliances? Also, is it possible to install a single Fisher & Paykel Dish drawer directly below a sink in one 24" cabinet? I think I need to figure out the appliances first and then see what I have left over for cabinets. Suggestions? Scratch and Dent stores in the NY area? Thanks!

Azlee

←

If you are going electric, you might want to consider an induction cooktop.

Don't know about the F&P Dish drawer. You might check their web site as often mfgs post downloadable installation documentation.

Regarding 240 vs 208, I think most appliances will tolerate the difference. Check with each mfg or mfg spec sheets for details.

-john

Edited March 6, 2005 by JohnN (log)

[azlee]

A few complications have arisen, which have delayed the kitchen renovation. My Co-op Board seems reluctant to approve the wall removal to expand the space and I can't get a straight answer about installing a cooking gas line, so I plan to work within the existing 5x7 kitchen footprint, but this means that I will really have to commit to spending the extra for counterdepth appliances like an electric Dacor Range (Millennia) and Sub-Zero 700TC Fridge. Not sure what to do about the electrical supply. The present range and fridge have a 208 volt supply and most newer high end appliances require 240 volts. Is this a simple change for an electrician to make or am I tied to finding lower voltage appliances? Also, is it possible to install a single Fisher & Paykel Dish drawer directly below a sink in one 24" cabinet? I think I need to figure out the appliances first and then see what I have left over for cabinets. Suggestions? Scratch and Dent stores in the NY area? Thanks!

Azlee

←

If you are going electric, you might want to consider an induction cooktop.

Don't know about the F&P Dish drawer. You might check their web site as often mfgs post downloadable installation documentation.

Regarding 240 vs 208, I think most appliances will tolerate the difference. Check with each mfg or mfg spec sheets for details.

-john

←

Thanks. I have always been interested in induction cooking but I'm not sure if all of my cookware will work with it. I have alot of old cookware from my grandmother that i'd hate to part with if it turned out not to induction compatible. I'll look a bit into what works and what doesn't. Maybe I should just spring for the cooking gas line. Wonder how much of a bite that would take out of my budget.

Azlee

[JohnN]

Thanks. I have always been interested in induction cooking but I'm not sure if all of my cookware will work with it.  I have alot of old cookware from my grandmother that i'd hate to part with if it turned out not to induction compatible. I'll look a bit into what works and what doesn't. Maybe I should just spring for the cooking gas line. Wonder how much of a bite that would take out of my budget.

Azlee

←

I think if a magnet sticks to it, it should work, however for best results you should get stuff that is meant to work with it. Sam called out Induc'Inox line by Mauviel in his Q&A:

In particular, you might look at the Induc'Inox line by Mauviel. They are made with 2.0 mm of magnetic steel fully clad with stainless steel. This means that, rather than having the induction hob heat up a thin layer of magnetic steel which conducts heat into the thermal layer (this is how All-Clad and Demeyere work with induction) with Induc'Inox, the thermal material itself is heated up by the magnetic field.

But I've also read that All-Clad Stainless works well also.

-john

[azlee]

Thanks. I have always been interested in induction cooking but I'm not sure if all of my cookware will work with it.  I have alot of old cookware from my grandmother that i'd hate to part with if it turned out not to induction compatible. I'll look a bit into what works and what doesn't. Maybe I should just spring for the cooking gas line. Wonder how much of a bite that would take out of my budget.

Azlee

←

I think if a magnet sticks to it, it should work, however for best results you should get stuff that is meant to work with it. Sam called out Induc'Inox line by Mauviel in his Q&A:

In particular, you might look at the Induc'Inox line by Mauviel. They are made with 2.0 mm of magnetic steel fully clad with stainless steel. This means that, rather than having the induction hob heat up a thin layer of magnetic steel which conducts heat into the thermal layer (this is how All-Clad and Demeyere work with induction) with Induc'Inox, the thermal material itself is heated up by the magnetic field.

But I've also read that All-Clad Stainless works well also.

-john

←

Thanks, John

I have a few pieces of All-Clad Stainless but use alot of Le Creuset, Staub, Lodge Cast Iron, Mauviel Copper, and Berndes Cast Anodized Aluminum. The rest I am not sure who manufactured. I'll try to magnet test. But don't they also need flat bottoms to work on induction? Thanks

Azlee

[JohnN]

Thanks. I have always been interested in induction cooking but I'm not sure if all of my cookware will work with it.  I have alot of old cookware from my grandmother that i'd hate to part with if it turned out not to induction compatible. I'll look a bit into what works and what doesn't. Maybe I should just spring for the cooking gas line. Wonder how much of a bite that would take out of my budget.

Azlee

←

I think if a magnet sticks to it, it should work, however for best results you should get stuff that is meant to work with it. Sam called out Induc'Inox line by Mauviel in his Q&A:

In particular, you might look at the Induc'Inox line by Mauviel. They are made with 2.0 mm of magnetic steel fully clad with stainless steel. This means that, rather than having the induction hob heat up a thin layer of magnetic steel which conducts heat into the thermal layer (this is how All-Clad and Demeyere work with induction) with Induc'Inox, the thermal material itself is heated up by the magnetic field.

But I've also read that All-Clad Stainless works well also.

-john

←

Thanks, John

I have a few pieces of All-Clad Stainless but use alot of Le Creuset, Staub, Lodge Cast Iron, Mauviel Copper, and Berndes Cast Anodized Aluminum. The rest I am not sure who manufactured. I'll try to magnet test. But don't they also need flat bottoms to work on induction? Thanks

Azlee

←

Yah, the All-Clad, Le Creuset and Lodge will probably work. I'm not familiar with Staub, and the Mauviel and cast anodized aluminum won't work. From my reading at THS forum (see my link about induction cooktops), it sounds like the non-flat bottom stuff will probably work, but not well. You could have the bottoms ground flat tho if you have a problem pan.

-john