wd-50 2004 - 2007

[philadining]

I found the folks at WD-50 to be very willing to switch things around, quite readily and pleasantly making substitutions to avoid food allergy problems, etc. So I'll bet they'd be happy to work with you.

In your position, I might contemplate the nature of some of the cooking processes: the fried mayo has already been mentioned; the very nature of sous-vide holds foods at lower temps for extended periods; I had a piece of fish cooked in a pan, but a very low temp, etc... None of that made me worried about my own health, and I'm quite sure these techniques are executed with care and with good attention to food safety, but in the particular circumstance of a pregnant woman being extra careful, it's worth contemplating.

Again, I found the staff to be very gracious and accommodating, I'm sure a phone call could answer many questions. But I'm not sure there's a bulletin issued from the Weird Techniques in the Kitchen Society pertaining to the propriety of any of these preparations for pregnant women. I don't know whether sous-vide and other low-temp cookery should be a concern. But it's worth thinking about.

[Dryden]

Considering that the "official" position of everything we've read indicates that pregnant women should be eating things medium-well to well-done, there's no way any pregnant woman should be eating anything sous vide unless it's finished under a broiler.

[Pork Neck]

Planning on heading here next month with a party of 6 or 7-Wondering what the best approach would be? Tasting menus for all? Do they do different tastings? Does everyone HAVE to get the tasting?

Any and all suggestions appreciated

[tb86]

I want everyone who has been to wd-50 to check out the egullet forum in australia going on right now there is a restaurant in Melbourne called interlude who has been ripping off food from wd-50 moto and alinia and copying it exactly ie shrimp noodles with smoked yogo,Sams miso icecream and caramalized apple and plum ,grapefruit on grape fruit and a bunch of grants food.It gets better he also has taken photos of it and has it on his website letting people think its his food check it out

[peteswanson]

It truly is stunning....I've never seen something so blatantly ripped off....one can certainly justify using similar ideas or flavors, but in this case, these are very distinct dishes (christ wylie and sam and heston singlehandedly made transglutaminase known to the public with their efforts, and at WD, made one of the most incredible and memorable dishes with this product......certainly many people use TG now, but to steal THAT particular dish upright is unreal) At least we can tell who the true "community" is around here for respect for ones peers, and ones who outright take advantage of others hard work. In other news I'm planning on adding bone marrow and caviar to my latest menu...I can't wait for everyone to see the pics of it....until I post it, you can probably find it in one of the El Bulli books....but I really am progressing with it!!!

[ulterior epicure]

... yeah - the skate with brown butter powder on interlude's site - had that myself at alinea a few weeks ago! and, the bowl with litchi halves in a green chervil sauce and servruga caviar - had that at alinea last year!

shameful.

u.e.

[ulterior epicure]

This may be buried in the pages upthread, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

How different of an experience would I get with the Tasting Menu v. ordering a la carte? I may be able to go to WD-50 with some colleagues who will decidedly (unfortunately) not be adventurous enough to do the tasting with me. (I'm assuming the tasting is only offered for the whole table... PLEASE TELL ME IF I'M WRONG). However, they may be persuaded to go if we order a la carte. I figure better go than not at all... right?

Would love some feedback on this.

Anything particular I should know about ordering a la carte?

u.e.

[BryanZ]

I think the fun part about wd~50 is the tasting menu. Although I have not eaten off the a la carte menu, a dining companion of mine who has done both VERY strongly prefers the tasting menu.

[docsconz]

This may be buried in the pages upthread, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

How different of an experience would I get with the Tasting Menu v. ordering a la carte?  I may be able to go to WD-50 with some colleagues who will decidedly (unfortunately) not be adventurous enough to do the tasting with me.  (I'm assuming the tasting is only offered for the whole table... PLEASE TELL ME IF I'M WRONG). However, they may be persuaded to go if we order a la carte.  I figure better go than not at all... right?

Would love some feedback on this.

Anything particular I should know about ordering a la carte?

u.e.

←

I think you will be fine. You can order some things from the tasting menu a la carte if you find something particularly interesting.

[philadining]

They're very accommodating there, and I doubt they'd insist on a whole table doing the tasting menu, but I think you'd have a logistical problem doing a tasting if your friends are ordering a la carte. The time I did a tasting menu there, it took a LONG time, and a table next to us was seated midway through our meal, had apps and entrees and left well before we were done.

You'd probably end up with rather bored friends, so I think Doc has the right idea, order some stuff off the a la carte menu, and if there's something you're eager to try from the tasting menu, ask about it, you could probably get it. You'll still get to experience some interesting cooking.

But Bryan's right too, the tasting menu is way more fun, if there's any way to talk your friends into it.

[Sneakeater]

The tasting menu is more fun than a la carte (as such things tend to be), but I think it's silly to think there's anything wrong with ordering a la carte there. I've had plenty of wonderful meals there off the regular menu. It really isn't any different from any normal restaurant in that respect.

Edited March 24, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

In fact, I'd ever go so far as to say that there'd be something seriously wrong with a restaurant where the a la carte menu wasn't worth ordering from (but only the tasting menu).

[Sethro]

In fact, I'd ever go so far as to say that there'd be something seriously wrong with a restaurant where the a la carte menu wasn't worth ordering from (but only the tasting menu).

←

Heh...are we supposed to infer Morimoto from that?

[ulterior epicure]

Heh...are we supposed to infer Morimoto from that?

LOL!

Thanks for all of your input... it seems pretty agreed upon that the tasting is by far the way to go at WD-50... I don't think logistics would be a problem as my friends are patient - after all, they know they're being a drag on my stomach by being so limited. I think as long as they have enough to eat, we'll be fine.

That being said, if I can't persuade them, I think I'd rather at least get the opportunity to visit than foregoe altogether... I'm not sure when I'll be NY next. As I've learned from Studio Kitchen - grab the chance while you can! Right?

u.e.

[ulterior epicure]

I'm back from WD-50... I'm sad to say I was terribly bored (oh, boy, I'm hearing protests and hate letters already )...

All of the meat preparations were excellent. But, everything that accompanied the meats ranged from interesting to awful... I didn't care for the pasty "French-fry"-like logs of reconstituted foods...

For me, the flavors were really just off - the combinations just clashed. I was really looking forward to WD-50, and my (admittedly one) visit has left me deflated. Maybe it was just the menu items we tried? I'm still really wanting to like this restaurant as much as everyone else has...

u.e.

[ckkgourmet]

As I said in a recent Devi post, I dont' think tasting menus are always the best way to get to know a restaurant, even if they frequently are the restaurants highest expression of itself.

At WD-50, I love some of Wylie Dufresne's classics at WD-50 as much as anything on the tasting menu (I probably haven't had the most recent tasting menu, however).

I was once told that Dufresne removed dishes from the menu if they were "too popular", that he refused to rehearse a dish if it had found too many fans and threatened to become an institution on the menu. I have no real way of verifying whether or not this is true, but it makes sense given his ceaseless experimentation and desire to upset the rules. Sometimes his dishes strive to be unacceptable on some level, looking for a sort of poetry in their very ugliness. I like to tell friends that if they want to get involved with his cuisine they have to accept that they won't be happy with everything precisely because they will be frequently tasting of the chef's experiments (not always successful). Many of the dishes are quite challenging. Others come and go, and one misses them.

I remember last year having a wonderful pineapple desert. I think the pineapple was roasted in pine needles. It was totally odd and very very good. It wasn't on the desert menu the next week!

[ulterior epicure]

As I said in a recent Devi post, I dont' think tasting menus are always the best way to get to know a restaurant, even if they frequently are the restaurants highest expression of itself.

We ordered a la carte.

I was once told that Dufresne removed dishes from the menu if they were "too popular", that he refused to rehearse a dish if it had found too many fans and threatened to become an institution on the menu. I have no real way of verifying whether or not this is true, but it makes sense given his ceaseless experimentation and desire to upset the rules.

Well, when I was there, I did notice that his popular "pickled beef tongue with fried mayonnaise" was still on the menu...

I remember last year having a wonderful pineapple desert. I think the pineapple was roasted in pine needles. It was totally odd and very very good. It wasn't on the desert menu the next week!

Odd can be very good if it is very good. The menu items we had were odd - in a bad way... but to each his/her own...

u.e.

[Sneakeater]

This is very interesting to me. Because when I first went to WD-50, shortly after it opened, I didn't really like it much. Over repeated visits, I've come to like it a lot. I've wondered whether the difference was that I was coming to better appreciate DuFresne's style and aesthetic, or that his cooking was getting more sensual (my initial objection having been that the cooking was too cerebral, not bothering enough with such minutia as tasting good).

This last exchange makes me think that maybe I've changed more than Wylie has.

Edited April 2, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[ckkgourmet]

This is very interesting to me.  Because when I first went to WD-50, shortly after it opened, I didn't really like it much.  Over repeated visits, I've come to like it a lot.  I've wondered whether the difference was that I was coming to better appreciate DuFresne's style and aesthetic, or that his cooking was getting more sensual (my initial objection having been that the cooking was too cerebral, not bothering enough with such minutia as tasting good).

This last exchange makes me think that maybe I've changed more than Wylie has.

←

You know, maybe your initial thought is right: maybe he's changed and you and I have not!

[ulterior epicure]

This is very interesting to me.  Because when I first went to WD-50, shortly after it opened, I didn't really like it much.  Over repeated visits, I've come to like it a lot.  I've wondered whether the difference was that I was coming to better appreciate DuFresne's style and aesthetic, or that his cooking was getting more sensual (my initial objection having been that the cooking was too cerebral, not bothering enough with such minutia as tasting good).

Wow, that's really a thoughtful reflection of your personal experience. Thanks for that observation.

I don't know what cerebral and sensual mean to you. I would say that the his dishes were very sensual to me... the presentations and combinations seemed almost too-strange to be cerebral... but unfortunately, they fell flat on, and in many instances offended, my palate.

This last exchange makes me think that maybe I've changed more than Wylie has.

Hmmm... that's very interesting.

u.e.

[ckkgourmet]

As I said in a recent Devi post, I dont' think tasting menus are always the best way to get to know a restaurant, even if they frequently are the restaurants highest expression of itself.

We ordered a la carte.

u.e.

←

Sorry for the confusion. Your one post above made it seem that you were really going to press those friends of yours in the direction of the tasting!

[ulterior epicure]

Sorry for the confusion. Your one post above made it seem that you were really going to press those friends of yours in the direction of the tasting!

Yeah, well things don't always go as one hopes... Although, the way things turned out, I'm glad I saved my wallet the grief...

u.e.

[Sethro]

Ate there again tonight for my 30th birthday.

1st course: Cod Threads, Pistachio Yogurt Asparagus

The cod was very dry and chewy, like munching on flakes straight out of the bag, but without the strong salty flavor. It and the yogurt were actually both quite devoid of flavor. The asparagus was somewhere short of crisp, and slightly slimy. Oddly, although WD-50 is my favorite restaurant bar-none, I've rarely had a first course that worked for me there.

2nd Course: Carrot Coconut Sunny-Side-Up

I thought this would have made a much better opener, being "breakfast" and such. The carrot flavor in particular really popped, aided by the perfect amount of black pepper, with just a mild sweetness. The coconut "white" actually tasted stronger of green cardamom than coconut, but thats fine with me.

3rd Course: Foie Gras, Candied olives, Pea Soil, Beet Juice

For my money, no restaurant in New York does a better job with foie terrine than WD. I thought I'd never like a foie dish more than last year's offering with the nori caramel, but this was even better. The terrine itself was a perfect soft cream, with perfect textural balance from the pea soil and perfect sweetness from the beet. The dish would have been a 10 out of 10 even without the candied olives, which put the dish out of the realm of human comprehension and somewhere into the kingdom of etherea. I asked if I could have a bag of candied olives to go, and I was not kidding. Those things are AWESOME. The plate was stunning too, colorful and clean, with a great use of negative space.

4th Course: Shrimp Cous Cous, Dehydrated Papaya, Avocado Puree

We opted away from the shrimp canneloni, having already sampled it twice in the past. This was basically a re-working of last years scallop cous-cous. I enjoyed this alot more though, mosty because the cous cous hit the table hot, and tasted like it had the help of some beef or bacon fat. The papaya was ok, but the avocado was completely lost. Decent dish, but nothing spectacular.

5th Course: Hangar Tartare, Bernaise Ice Cream, Asian Pear

We also opted away from the tongue standard, having already sampled it twice as well. This dish was another stand-out. The meat was rich and perfectly seasoned, and the bernaise ice cream was as good tasting as it is cool sounding. What really did the trick for me was the healthy dose of clove and rice vinegar (I think) which dressed the pear. I loved everything about it.

6th Course: Langostine, Celery Root Fry, Bannana Mustard

Probably the best cooked piece of langostine I've ever had; absolutely butter in the mouth. Everything else on the plate was forgetable to me, but man was that a well cooked crustacean.

7th Course: Corned Duck, Chinese Vinegar Reduction, [something I can't remember]

The duck didn't really taste corned. Also it's skin wasn't crisp, and it was a little under-seasoned. The squid ink and vinegar reduction could have been a little more assertive. It wasn't a bad dish, just nothing I would order twice.

Intermezzo: Tangerine Sorbet, basil, olive oil

I liked this alot, although it was clearly a granite and not a sorbet at all. The citrus and olive oil worked great together, but I wish there was more basil. You really can't have too much basil.

1st Dessert Course: Coconut Cream Chese Sorbet, Carrot Foam, Carrot Cake Crumbs

Loved the hell out of this! This was basically last year's Grapefruit-in-Grapefruit updated, but even better (which is saying alot). So smooth and so bright, the perfect dessert.

2nd Dessert Course: Manchego Cheesecake, Pineapple Foam, Bosc Pear

After all the hype on Eg, I was actually a little let down. It was a very good cheesecake, but nothing new or unique. The pineapple foam was great and stood up on the plate like a champ for about 5 minutes, and played well with the cheese. The pear was pretty unnecesary and there was a manchego tuille that I thought was way too savory for a dessert course, and actually pretty nasty. Still, it was very good overall.

3rd Dessert Course: Kumquat Confit, Carob Ice Cream, Soy Caramel, Thyme Syrup

This was my favorite dish of the night; everything on the plate worked in complete harmony. The kumquats were so juicy and tender, yet still pleasingly bitter. The carob ice cream was so earthy and rich. The soy caramel carried a perfect salinity to it that really tied the dish together. I could probably rate this as one of the best desserts I've ever had. I would have liked a bit more thyme syrup though, it was important to the dish and there was only a ridiculously tiny drizzle of it.

4rd Dessert Course: Butternut Squash Sorbet, Pumpkin Seed Cake, Chocolate Soil, Mole Paper

I loved the flavor of the cake, although I wish it was slightly more dry and firm. I also loved the soil, and would gladly eat a bowl of it it with milk every morning. Unfortunately the sorbet really clashed texturally with everything else on the plate. I think it would have been better suited as an ice cream, which also would have subdued it's sweetness, which was mildly cloying. The mole paper was impossible to taste, which is a bummer because I really wanted to taste it!

5th Dessert Course: Caramelized Banana, Stout Foam, Smoked Chocolate Ice Cream

This had a very interesting and chalenging flavor profile. The guiness for the foam had not been reduced or decanted at all, so it carried alot of hops and sourness, which really battled with the abundant smokiness of the ice cream for dominance of the tongue. Bananas...well I hate banana in desserts, so It's not really fair for me to even judge. I think I would have really liked the ice cream alone, but the foam just wasn't doing it for me.

1st Additional Dessert: Braised Pineapple, Mustard Ice Cream, Coconut Foam

Cooked pineapple has a really peculiar taste that I've never fully been able to wrap my palate around. I liked the ice cream pretty well, but with the pineapple, everything was SO bright and SO acerbic. If the foam was a little more coconut-y it might have helped cut the sourness, I really couldn't taste it. It was a huge helping of pineapple too, and looked kind of heaped on the plate. A strange dish, and one that I'm not sure if I liked or not. I think it would have benefited from something mealy and earthy, like pine nuts, soy nuts, or some type of grain or rice. It felt a little unraveled.

2nd Additional Dessert: Chocolate Mousse and Orange Tuille "Birthday Candle"

First of all, as a pastry chef, I looked at this and instantly thought "Hello! How could nobody have thought of this before?!?" The tuille formed a cylidrical "lamp shade" which enrobed the candle atop the chocolate base. Godamn ingenius and pretty damn tasty too!

Petit Fours: Red Pepper Gelee, Chocolate Curry Almonds

The almonds are still great, and the red pepper is a nice addition; a pate de fruit that actually isn't too sweet.

DISCLAIMER: I feel the need to be totally objective when reviewing food, but I don't mean to come across as snide. Wylie and Sam take a lot of chances with their direction, and more often than not the result is something delicious and more importantly stimulating--inspirational even. I have tons of respect for what they do, regardless of whether I love every single dish they produce.

Edited April 3, 2006 by Sethro (log)

[docsconz]

Sorry for the confusion. Your one post above made it seem that you were really going to press those friends of yours in the direction of the tasting!

Yeah, well things don't always go as one hopes... Although, the way things turned out, I'm glad I saved my wallet the grief...

u.e.

←

I'm sorry that you had such a negative experience, but what precisely did you have? I would be curious to know your specific reactions to specific dishes. It seems as with Alinea either your experiences at the restaurants or your preferences with food are vastly different than mine.

[ulterior epicure]

I'm sorry that you had such a negative experience,

Me too... As you know, doc, I was particularly excited to try WD-50.

... but what precisely did you have? I would be curious to know your specific reactions to specific dishes.

Our party tried a number of starters and main courses. We were so disappointed that we just passed on desserts (was that a mistake? ). In general, the meats were extremely fresh and excellently prepared. What was disastrous were the accompaniments that came with the meats. They weren't necessarily bad by themselves - but together on the plate, it was just discordant. I think the most offensive part were the consitancies of some of these side items. I'm rarely put off by textures, but Dufresne seems to really be into what I call "pastes" or "babyfoods" - pureed and reconstituted foods that just didn't work for me.

Starters

Pickled Beef Tongue: The pickled beef was very tasty and the most tender tongue I've ever had. In fact, one could easily mistake the tongue for soft prosciutto. Unfortunately, everything else on the plate was just poorly matched (for my palate).

First, can anyone tell me what is so astounding about fried mayonnaise? I've read rave reviews about the fried mayonnaise - I just don't get it... what's so special?

Second, if anyone has had the pickled beef tongue starter, can you tell me what was the dark-coloured paste? It was deep and sweet - I want to say figs or prunes? It wasn't bad, but didn't quite work with the fried mayo and tangy beef tongue.

Third: I didn't get the "onion strudel" - I couldn't figure out if that was the little assembly of translucent little gelatin crumbles and or whether it was the dark paste (which didn't taste like onion strudel at all).

Octopus: The octopus was succulent. It had been confited and then grilled. The celery pesto it was served with was rather flavorless - unnoticeable. Also, there were curls of pineapple carpaccio that had been carmelized. These were good on their own - but didn't work with the dehydrated crystals of tuna and Marcona almonds. Just didn't work.

Hangar Steak Tartare: This appetizer had the most potential. Indeed, the pickled Asian pears and the Bernaise ice cream were all acceptable accompaniments... but... unfortunately, I found the hangar steak to be a poor choice of cut of meat to serve tartare style. Although it wasn't unbearably tough, it was tougher and more stringy than I like my tartares. The smooth creaminess of the Bernaise ice cream the crispness of the pears were frustrated by the chewy meat... boo! Here, the flavors were there, the textures didn't work.

Main Courses

Ocean Trout: OHMYGOSH silky fish. As I had posted in the comments on my flickr site, the fish was so tender that I wondered whether it had been prepared sous vide... But, since that preparation is banned in NYC ( ), I assumed not. I don't know how they prepared this fish, but it was in an impossible state between raw and rare. WOW. Unfortunately, the two filets sat on a schmear of pita puree (enter: babyfood reference). It was just bad... imagine pureeing pita bread and then serving it cold. I can imagine how one might think it'd be like hummous? It wasn't...

Enter also the paste reference: logs of what are billed as "tomato-chickpea." Imagine tomatoe-flavored hummous made into a thick french-fry and then either baked, or more likely fried? Either way, they were served cool and had the consistancy of cooled mushy paste - think tomato-chickpea flavored cold mashed potato.

I'll assume that the crispy crouton-like crumbles were the "falafel spices." They were good, and welcomed textural addition since everthing else on the plate was soft or mushy.

Beef Sirloin: The cuts of meat were wonderfully done to my medium-rare liking. Unfortunately, this dish was injured the "incidentals" on the plate. Wilted water spinach was a treat - except it was unsauced/unseasoned and therefore bitter. Compounding the bitterness was a "whipped horseradish," which despite its name, was not what imagined - a whipped cream version of horseradish sauce... rather it was bitter foam of horseradish - without any flavor but bitter. IMO, it could have used more flavor.

The only splash of flavor on the dish beside the meat was a "red pepper tart." This was an unfried/unbaked version of the tomato-chickpea logs on the Ocean Trout dish. Two slabs of the cold cream/paste came with two savory shortbread-like crackers. Although I appreciated the sweetness of the red pepper flavor (at least there was some flavor, unlike the rest of the items), the consistancy was actually gross.

Skate: Again, the meat was EXCELLENT. In fact, I have never had a cut of skate so thick as this one. And, the rectangle of fish was beautifully cooked and well-seasoned.

But, here again, Dufresne does wrong by a facial-cream-like eggplant-raisin puree... that tasted of eggplant and slightly of raisin... a horrible combination that just didn't work with the fish. All of us left it untouched after a tiny sampling.

Dufresne's reconstituted logs showed up again on this plate - this time derived from "fried rice." These logs affected more of a steak fry-like form - but were limp and not crispy on the outside at all (I don't know if there supposed to be). Also, these tasted nothing of fried rice - in fact, these did taste like lumpy cold mashed potatoes. Pasty.

The other winner on the plate besides the fish was a fat beautifully grilled cut of king oyster mushroom.

Maybe I was mixing flavors and elements that weren't supposed to be... But, overall, I was really turned off by the combinations that did happen, for one reason or another. Either "eating instructions" were not communicated correctly, or the dishes were just not to my (nor my companions') palate's liking, I'm sorry to say that WD-50 was a disappointer...

Upshot: All of the meats were excellent and tasty - but, unfortunately, there were too many wrongs to out-do these rights... Nearly all of the accompaniments fell flat or were distasteful - in texture and/or flavor. I just remember the meal as being too "flavor-messy."

You know where to find the pictures...

It seems as with Alinea either your experiences at the restaurants or your preferences with food are vastly different than mine.

doc, you're right, it seems that we're "ships passing in the night" with regard to meals!! I'd be really curious to eat with you now! I bet it would make for one interesting experience.... Although, didn't we agree on at least one restaurant??? Sushi Yasuda?

u.e.

Edited April 3, 2006 by ulterior epicure (log)