A Tale of One City

[jamiemaw]

It will come as no blinding revelation to you that Vancouver scooped a Conde Nast Traveler award as "Best City in the Americas" at their annual ceremony in New York. We've written here at length about the outside validation that Canadians seem to require (wine awards, wayward actors et al) from that, ahem, slightly larger market to the south of us.

I mention this award because--after a summer frequently dedicated to hosting American food journalists, the city is reaching the tipping point of culinary acknowledgement as well. In fact, some of them wouldn't leave, maybe because we're about 21% happier to see them.

My point is that this award is at least somewhat due to Vancouver's (and other parts of the province's) emergent reputation for culinary tourism, and not just because we're beautiful. Anyway, here's a much-abbreviated rendition of the Tourism Vancouver press release.

OCTOBER 8, 2004

"Vancouver voted Top City in Americas by Conde Nast Traveler"

"VANCOUVER, BC: Last night Condé Nast Traveler magazine voted Vancouver the "Best City in the Americas" at their annual Readers' Choice Awards ceremony held in New York. Vancouver won the top spot over Victoria and Quebec City.

The poll divides cities into five specific geographical divisions including the Americas, which covers Canada, Central America and South America. Cities are scored on ambience, friendliness, culture and sites, restaurants, lodging, and shopping, to give a final ranking. Last year Vancouver was ranked second in the same category.

This award is at the top of a long list of accolades that Vancouver has received in recent years. The city has also been honoured with top rankings by groups such as the American Automobile Association and the International Air Transport Association, and consistently ranks as one of the most liveable cities in the world.

Also recognized at the ceremony were Vancouver's Fairmont Waterfront Hotel, which was voted the best hotel in Canada, and Vancouver Island, which won the "Best North American Island" category over Nantucket and Prince Edward Island."

(Edited)

Edited October 9, 2004 by jamiemaw (log)

[Sam Salmon]

To quote from another Internet Forum-"Is there a shallower more pretentious and lame magazine extant?"

[jamiemaw]

To quote from another Internet Forum-"Is there a shallower more pretentious and lame magazine extant?"

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Shhh, Sam. Don't tell the hoteliers and restaurateurs of Vancouver. Last time I looked they kinda liked those Yankee greenbacks. What was it that made your love go away?

And besides, I thought "shallower, more pretentious and lame" referred to the Zagat guides. Or at the very least, O--the Oprah Magazine.

[Coop]

I have no problem with the Conde Naste magazines. They are what they are. I hate that cliche but it applies here. They are advertisments with strategically placed editorial that pimps the products that are advertised within. Jamie perhaps you should look away at this point. I wouldn't want to emberass you with my praise.

That's why I respect Vancouver mag so much because of the great writers and thier basically counter culture opinions inter-sprinkled with glossy adds.

[jamiemaw]

. . . counter culture opinions inter-sprinkled with glossy adds.

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Coop,

I tried to look away but it was already too late. Besides, one of my favourite expressions is counter culture seeing as that's where I live and all. And you know Coop, that's why they pay us the medium bucks . . . to keep the ads from bumping into each other.

Now how's that vertical of Olde Fireweed Mead coming that you promised for November 5th?

Cheers,

Jamie

PS--I'm a very big fan of the full page glossy for Oakridge this month.

Edited October 9, 2004 by jamiemaw (log)

[Andy Lynes]

Isn't it a bit mean spirited to say " we got voted number 1 but we don't care because the magazine that ran the poll sucks"? I think this is fantastic news. Even if you think the magazine is a dumb ass publication and its readers no better (which I don't by the way) the very least you can say is "well, at least they got something right."

[map]

Well said Andy!!!

[Sam Salmon]

Isn't it a bit mean spirited to say " we got voted number 1 but we don't care because the magazine that ran the poll sucks"? I think this is fantastic news. Even if you think the magazine is a dumb ass publication and its readers no better (which I don't by the way) the very least you can say is "well, at least they got something right."

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Andy you have spent very little time here.

It's a nice idea to be generous and 'give thanks' but there's no obligation for us to validate those we consider shallow and vacuous.

The hordes of lumbering waddling tourists attracted by reviews like that mentioned bring no benefit for most city dwellers that we can't do without.

It's the same in all so called 'tourist destinations' around the world.People here have yet to develop that hard shell that one encounters in many places but it's slowly happening.I witnessed a tourist being cursed for not moving out of the way of shoppers @ Granville Island Market this past summer-a first for sure but not the last time it'll happen.

[jamiemaw]

Andy you have spent very little time here.

It's a nice idea to be generous and 'give thanks' but there's no obligation for us to validate those we consider shallow and vacuous.

The hordes of lumbering waddling tourists attracted by reviews like that mentioned bring no benefit for most city dwellers that we can't do without.

It's the same in all  so called 'tourist destinations' around the world.People here have yet to develop that hard shell that one encounters in many places but it's slowly happening.I witnessed a tourist being cursed for not moving out of the way of shoppers @ Granville Island Market this past summer-a first for sure but not the last time it'll happen.

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I disagree with everything you have said here, especially the 'hard shell' that you ironically disdain in others while semingly tolerating in your own remarks by way of your salutation to Andy.

Andy you have spent very little time here.

Andy lives in Brighton and works in London; both are popular tourist destinations; London is obviously one of the most popular in the world. Somehow the locals have come to terms with the fact that we really love them (to paraphrase Sally Field) and enjoy visiting their city. Thay have found a way to co-exist with us for several centuries.

You make the classic case of the NIMBY--I live here but don't want to share it with you. Further, I can assure you that most Vancouverites (and epecially the restaurant industry) do indeed benefit hugely from tourism, whether the tourists are fat and waddling; trim and fit; or merely the curious shoppers whom you cite. To say otherwise is ignorant of how British Columbia's--and this city's--economy works.

For every anecdotal case of a local being rude to a tourist, I have seen a hundred cases of kindness to strangers here this summer. I'm sure that you too are helpful, pausing from your routine to give directions or offer advice. This city is renowned for its friendliness and, I dare say, this was just one reason why CN Traveler subscribers saluted us.

Culinary tourism is a large and growing component of the city's carefully planned growth. I say that the more tourism we enjoy, the more interesting and cosmopolitan our city will be, and ultimately the better our restaurant culture will become, both for us and for our visitors.

Count on it.

Jamie

Edited October 11, 2004 by jamiemaw (log)

[nwyles]

Andy you have spent very little time here.

It's a nice idea to be generous and 'give thanks' but there's no obligation for us to validate those we consider shallow and vacuous.

The hordes of lumbering waddling tourists attracted by reviews like that mentioned bring no benefit for most city dwellers that we can't do without.

It's the same in all so called 'tourist destinations' around the world.People here have yet to develop that hard shell that one encounters in many places but it's slowly happening.I witnessed a tourist being cursed for not moving out of the way of shoppers @ Granville Island Market this past summer-a first for sure but not the last time it'll happen. 

Wow. Where did that come from ? Get caught behind a tour bus one day ? A Japanese guy get the last lobster out of the tank at Blue Water one night ?

As a restaurantuer , I welcome any and all press, reviews and accolades to our fair city. I hope you do not presume to speak for all of us Sam !

I can only speak for myself and how it affects me to have tourists flocking to our city. I enjoy a fair tourist trade in my restaurant throughout the summer. Lots of people in Yaletown travel in the summer so the local trade drops off a bit. This is replaced by lots of shiny happy tourists gracing our streets. It puts bread on the table and shoes on my kids feet ! I would imagine 50 % of my summer trade is from tourists. Bring it on. I love them ! ( Bring on the steak eaters !! )

Have we forgotten what sort of thing that exposure to the world has done for us ! I can remember a day when there was no drinking on Sundays – Expo 86 saw that changed . We were set upon a world stage and somebody realized that we needed to come into the new century. Good !

Think of all of the tourist destinations in our city that certainly enhance our lives – Cap. Susp. Bridge, Canada Place, Stanley Park, Robson Street , Granville Island Market, etc. These things certainly would not exist in their current form with the traffic and tourist dollars. Lots of us would not even visit them if we were not showing off for visiting relatives.

I for one will not be developing a “ Hard Shell” to any people who want to come and experience what our city has to offer.

Perhaps you long for the good old days when Silk Tassel was a premium vodka, Kraft American slices was imported cheese , Roma tomato was an exotic vegetable and pineapple came in a can. We certainly don’t want to get anybody on a rant about Government support for tourism or their failure to recognize how important it is to our economy ( we have a few pages on that in egullet ). Are you living in a cave or perhaps under a tree in Stanley Park ? I might then understand your disdain for the tourists as they might be keeping you awake !

Wake up and smell the French roast coffee. It is a big world out there and we are a well regarded, admired part of it.

[Sam Salmon]

"It is a big world out there and we are a well regarded, admired part of it. "

Indeed having travelled in a good part of the world I know the truth in that statement.

However I fail to see how the Capilano Suspension Bridge has failed to enrich my life-or anyone else's apart from the owners.

In fact I am on record as calling it "a tourist trap of the coarsest and shittiest variety" and I stand by my words.

If anyone would like to see the future of Vancouver after the Olympics-not all the future but a good sized glimpse-I suggest they drive by the 'lumbering waddling hordes' descending from tour busses en masse outside the Crapilano Suspension Bridge.

Rumours of new Kevlar cables for the bridge in advance of the Olympics-said to be needed to handle the strain from behemoth tourists-are just that no tenders have been called to date.

BTW-I live very comfortably in Kitsilano and have for 25+ years now.

I need no one to tell me my life is lucky and your picayune criticisms are worth the paper they are written on.

Of course someone could say the same about mine and they are Welcome to!

Anyone wishing some very different perspective on this sort of back patting that Vancouver is so notorious for should Click Here

and Click Here as Well

The posts are funny as hell and there's some real biting commentary-something that's rarely found in this warm comfy self congratulatory clubhouse.

[nwyles]

I am not sure where this post is going or how to respond. I have noted your disdain for the bridge from other posts. You certainly are on record in that point. It was an example and your opinion is clear. Replace that with Gastown, Grouse Mountain , whatever.

What is it that you find offensive - Tourists, Vancouver, Conde Nast .....?

Tourism puts bread on the table. My table at least. I certainly do not pretend to be part of the " Culinary Tourism " group. I will leave that to others. But the regular people rolling into town to have a look around sure do cross my doorstep. For that I am grateful. This is what I chose to do so whatever $$ come my way, great.

Vancouver being noted in an international travel magazine is good for everybody, no matter what you might think of the publication. In someway or another, it generates $$, and that makes the wheels go around.

Do tourists walking slowly down Robson Street four abreast without a clue that hordes of people are trying to get by frustrate me, oh man , you have no idea !

Are there some days I wish the shopping on Granville Island was a full contact sport so I could push people out of my way, yes, sadly I do

Do I enjoy the dollars that they are spending here because of publicity like the Conde Nast. Yes I do. Do I like the city I live in being recognized by others as a first class international city, sure I do

Do I see this board as a warm comfy self congratulatory clubhouse ? I never thought so. I thought it was about food and drink and the things that go along with that. I enjoy most of the posts here and read this site every day. You just seemed so bitter so I felt I had to respond. That is only my picayune opinion ( nice word - I had to look it up )

Anyway, this has taken up too much time. Time to go home and be with the kids.

Until tomorrow Sam...............

[Daddy-A]

Am not!

Are too!

Am not!

Are too!

BTW-I live very comfortably in Kitsilano and have for 25+ years now.

I need no one to tell me my life is lucky and your picayune criticisms are worth the paper they are written on.

Of course someone could say the same about mine and they are Welcome to.

Well, you're nothing if not consistent Sam ...

gastropimp-I have to wonder if you weren't 'under the influence' when you posted this bit of nonsense.

It sounds like you'd like to rebuild Kits Beach/destroy the pool/existing walk and put up more buildings to sell F&C?.If so check out Steveston first.

As a longtime Kitsilano resident-my 25th anniversary is May 15-I can say with certainty the last thing this neighbourhood needs is more concrete and noise.

As to that 'prime locale' it's going to be tough for them to operate under the constraints in place plus that expensive new condo development 'coming soon' next door isn't going to like a noisy bar operating late.

No more bothersome transient renters complaining it's going to be ratepayers phoning City Inspectors about various and sundry infractions.

Interesting times ahead Yes indeed!

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NIMBY.

A.

[Coop]

If you want to know what Vancouver would look like without the dollars and culturism that flows in because of tourism come out to Maple Ridge. Even better live in some backwoods community like Corning California. I myself find the hordes of people at Granville Island who are there to look at food and shake thier heads in amazement that anyone would buy a lobster mushroom a pain in the ass. I also know that they aren't all tourists. There are enough ignorant people in the 2 million that live in the lower mainland. Do I want them all to shove off? No. It's called tolerance.

Even a lumbering waddling tourist can enrich ones life if given a chance. Sam I think you need to go out there and give one a hug. Buy him a coffee and try to see life through his aviators. Chances are they have spent a lot of money to come here. Somehow they have earned that money. Perhaps when they aren't travelling they are at home working on the cure for cancer or raising children or planting a garden. You don't know. With the attitude expressed here I doubt you will ever know.

Many a time I've been paired on the gold course with tourists who barely spoken english. Never by the end of 18 holes did I find the experience in any way negative. I can't say that about every local I've played with.

[montrachet]

Many a time I've been paired on the gold course with tourists who barely spoken english. Never by the end of 18 holes did I find the experience in any way negative. I can't say that about every local I've played with.

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I totally agree with this last comment. -m

[jamiemaw]

However I fail to see how the Capilano Suspension Bridge has failed to enrich my life-or anyone else's apart from the owners.

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Love the double negative, Sam!

Enough said.

[jamiemaw]

From the desk of: F. Morris Chatters

Communications Director

Capilano Suspension Bridge and Ye Olde Souvenir Shoppe

"SUSPEND DISBELIEF"

North Vancouver, BC

Dear Mr. Salmon,

We were shocked and appalled to read your denigrating remarks regarding our clientele. I'll have you know that we are an Equal Opportunity tourist trap and are in no way predjudiced against either the picayune or the morbidly obese. In fact we have little control (whether they be Jumbos or merely garden-variety Double Wides) over who walks across our not inconsiderable chasm.

Speaking of chasms, we are always on the lookout for new business opportunities and would be very interested indeed in building a bridge to assist you in connecting your logic. Although, truth be told, our engineers remain unsure that even Kevlar would be sufficient. With your permission, we thought we might name it A Bridge Too Far. We believe that it would easily qualify as the longest (unsupported) suspension bridge in the world but first we would want to ensure that you would be comfortable in becoming a major tourist destination.

Although many of your aquaintances inform us that you are a chap of even disposition, i.e. a chip on both shoulders, we rush to assure you that we remain amused by your Small Earth theorems.

We would very much like to convince you as to both the veracity and the beauty of our operation, and would be very pleased to host you for a guided tour of the Bridge and an up-close view of the canyon. My colleaugues and I are confident that you will find it the thrill of a lifetime.

Wishing you only the best and sending congratulations on the occasion of 25 years of successful living in Kitsilano, until we meet again . . .

Salmon chanted evening,

We remain, etc.

F. Morris Chatters

c. Ms. Enid Plews, Director of Communications, CN Traveler

Edited October 11, 2004 by jamiemaw (log)

[Bux]

I was in Vancouver, maybe five or six years ago. People seemed to treat me well enough and I hope I managed to stay our of everyone's way. What I remember most was being well fed, well wined and dined as a matter of fact. The beer was good too, although I'll not forget not being able to get a rare burger. There was more than enough compensation in geting my foie gras cooked right. We ate well in restaurants and we even conned a local friend of a friend we had entertained once in NY to invite us to dinner at home. Some here may have seen that as a civic duty so I wouldn't waste restaurant chairs reserved for locals. People are nice to you, but you never know what they're saying behind your back. The truth is, if you build a better restaurant, they'll come for dinner. Anyplace worth living in is worth visiting as long as it's got good restaurants. Of course if it hasn't got good restaurants, it's not worth living in or talking about. That may not be universally true, but it's kind of accepted at eGullet.

And you guys have a bad attitude about wine. You don't ship it here. I've got to go there to get it. Actually I have no problem going where I'm not wanted--if the food's good. To paraphrase a successful campaign phrase, it's the food. That's why people come. They come to Vancouver to eat the food and they come to eGullet to talk about the food. The tourists who come here for other reasons are not enriching my life. They're also not posting in accordance with the agreement they made before being allowed to post here. Can we take the tourism politics, at least that which is unrelated to the quality of the food, off the board before we reach the point where we have to delete the thread.

[map]

According to the web site at Conde Nast it is about the food and the restaurants, here is what two of the categories scoring is based on, at least part of the scores are food related.

For Cities

Ambience

Friendliness

Culture/Sites

Restaurants

Lodging

Shopping

Hotels and Resorts

Rooms

Service

Food/Dining

Location

Overall Design

Activities/Facilities (resorts only

[Bux]

According to the web site at Conde Nast it is about the food and the restaurants,

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The award is about food and restaurants, at least in good part and that's why Jamie's original post was on topic and why some of the recent thread hasn't been.

[jamiemaw]

I was in Vancouver, maybe five or six years ago. People seemed to treat me well enough and I hope I managed to stay our of everyone's way. What I remember most was being well fed, well wined and dined as a matter of fact. The beer was good too, although I'll not forget not being able to get a rare burger.

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Let's bring it back on topic by adressing Bux's distress: Rare burgers are available at The Fairmont Waterfront Hotel but you have to sign a liability waiver form.

Culinary Tourism is an engine of growth and as we've alluded to on this thread, will, over time, deliver even better restaurants. The BC Restaurant and Food Services Association has recently empanelled a commitee to organize a Route des Sauveurs type of culinary trail such as that very successfully rolled out in Quebec and other jurisdictions over the past few years. Further, Cuisine Canada's recent conference, Northern Bounty, held a two hour pleneray session to address the issue. The whole concept has gone well beyong lip service, if you'll excuse me, into the type of mainstream marketing that find industry and tourism assocaiations can sink their teeth into. That's in some part because the marketing of hard assets (Queen Elizabeth Gardens, Canada Place, Science World et al) is saturated; the marketing of soft assets such as dining has lots of legs. Just look at the success of Dine Out Vancouver to know how willing they are now to promote what we eat and how we eat it.

Edited October 11, 2004 by jamiemaw (log)

[nwyles]

Let's bring it back on topic by adressing Bux's distress: Rare burgers are available at The Fairmont Waterfront Hotel but you have to sign a liability waiver form.

I spoke to my friendly neighbourhood health inspector the other day on that topic. She seemed to think that there was no legislation on serving rare burgers but that cooking bugers more than rare was a firm suggestion. She also quoted an example in the U.S. where someone insisted on a rare burger at a restaurant, contrary to the advice of the operator. Stamping their feet and quoting " the customer is always right etc. got what they wanted. They got sick , sued the restaurant and won. I guess the restaurant should have known better and not served the guest.

I too hope that this thread gets back on topic. Mr. Salmon provided an easy distraction but not really worth the "cyber" paper it is printed on.

[map]

I have to say the very best burger I have ever eaten (rare or not) was last week at PJ Clarkes in New York City, washed down with an excellent pint (or two) of Rolling Rock.

[Sam Salmon]

Love the double negative, Sam!

Enough said.

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Wow!

You are sharp Jamie!

All that MSG must be good for a person!

[Andy Lynes]

Andy you have spent very little time here.

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Enough to know that I'd like to be back waddling the streets again sometime soon, getting in the way of native Vancouverites at Granville Market and being told off for taking photos in Urban Fare. Hell, I might even bring my family along and chill out on Kitsilano Beach for a day or two. I'll be the very pale one shouting at my badly behaved kids in a Southern-English accent. Maybe you can buy me a beer if you happen to passing.