Dave the Cook's Kitchen Reno On the Cheap

[Marlene]

I absolutely refuse to look in my knife block.

Damn you Dave for even making us think about this

[memesuze]

One of the things I like most about the Metro work bench I created was that I could place the top section at whatever height I wanted. My 60-year-old kitchen cabinets/counters are at more than 37 inches, so that with a thick Boos cutting board, my shoulders were hunched up too often as I cut and chopped, even though I'm over 5'7". Now the cutting board is a comfortable three inches lower because I have the stainless steel work surface at 34 inches.

And I turned the plastic-covered wire shelves in my pantry so that the ridge on front creates a lip to keep ornery cans from denting my toes.

Edited to add that I'm familiar with this particular critter hiding place....

Edited October 23, 2004 by memesuze (log)

[andiesenji]

DtheC, this would make a diff if you were stacking non-flat lids up there.  Tremendous capacity, can't you just picture it?  I've mentioned how I store flat lids in the Metro slots, but I do have one non-flat lid that bedevils me, a heavy lovely Descoware skillet lid.  I have it hanging on an s-hook, an imperfect solution that has lasted many years.  I think it could sit quietly up there behind its safety ledge with its friends the Texas Ware bowls and the salad spinner and the other things on the top shelf.

Also I'll be ruminating on squeezing another shelf in the midsection there, ledge-side-up, all shallow-like, for LIDS!  And suchlike.

OK, now off to have a stiff drink in advance of a peek into the old knife block slots.

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I am a bit tired right now and the shelves on which I have the solution to your problem are in the back, behind 3 others and I simply don't feel like moving them around so I can take a photo.

I have had several of these and some of them are on the wire shelves. I place then on the shelf then use wire to secure them from underneath and the wide sections at one end will hold that large domed Descoware lid to the paella pan and also holds the domed lids to my cast iron dutch ovens and also the domed Pyrex lids. The narrower spaces hold flatter and smaller lids.

There is also a stainless steel drying rack that also can be set on the shelves and wired on to hold them in place which have many more spaces and are perfect for holding very flat lids. here

It is, however, more expensive. The first ones are really cheap.

I also have some old Rubbermaid plastic coated wire plate racks that hold extra baking pans or cookie sheets and etc that don't fit in my baking cabinet.

[Dave the Cook]

I absolutely refuse to look in my knife block. 

Damn you Dave for even making us think about this

OK, now off to have a stiff drink in advance of a peek into the old knife block slots.

Not to worry -- or not much. What I learned from the episode (and the exterminator dude) was that, more than food scraps, what roaches seek is moisture and warmth. They can eat practically anything -- wallboard, carboard, sawdust -- but they can't dig wells or make fur coats. So a dry, cool environment is pretty discouraging to them, even if you leave food out on the counter (watch out for ants, though). Not surprisingly, among their favorite hangouts are hot-beverage dispensers. Think about that the next time you drop four bits for a cup of lousy machine-made coffee.

Anyway, this house had leaky everything, and a vintage 1964 floor furnace to boot. The entire crawlspace was like a steam room. There were all kinds of bugs down there, walking around in towels, getting massages, drinking carrot juice, picking up babes. I'm surprised they didn't evict us.

[Richard Kilgore]

Knife Storage: I think it depends what works best for you in your kitchen...and perhaps whether you have ever had anything peering at you out of a knife block. I have had magnetic strips in the past and have had a counter-top block for years now. I like both. In the current kitchen, a counter-top knife block is the only thing that will work well. I have not had any problem keeping this block clean, but I think that depends on the situation.

[fifi]

I have not had any problem keeping this block clean, but I think that depends on the situation.

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And... how do you know that... Hmmmmm?

While I like the concept of the magnetic strip, both this kitchen and my previous kitchens never had a good place for one so I don't have any experience. A few years ago, a few months after I got the knife block, I noticed these little deposits of sawdust. My son kept trying me get me to put the thing in the freezer for a while but I was too curious as to what would eventually emerge. That took a while but it was some kind of little skinny beetle. Test concluded, I did put it in the freezer.

*anxiously awaiting floor pictures*

[Marlene]

Oh man. now I'm going to have to go shake out my knife block.

Thanks you guys

[Richard Kilgore]

Test concluded, I did put it in the freezer.

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Isn't that awfully inconvenient?

[fifi]

Yeah... You tend to get a bit of frostbite from the handle of the french chef...

Actually, a few days in the freezer tends to kill most of the buggers. I do that with flour and other such things.

Speaking of bugs... My sister has one of those grid/fluorescent things now and is after getting rid of it. It tends to collect dead bugs. Mostly she sees moths but they did have an invasion of those big gross roaches one time and she got sick of seeing the dead bodies up there in silhouette. Another reason for Dave to get rid of it eventually.

[maggiethecat]

Mostly she sees moths but they did have an invasion of those big gross roaches one time and she got sick of seeing the dead bodies up there in silhouette. Another reason for Dave to get rid of it eventually.

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Oh. My. God.

I managed to hold down the bile during the knife block discussion, but this sent me over the edge. Oh well, maybe it's nice and dry up there and it won't turn into a buggy bath house.

Have you decided whether you're laying the checkerboard floor straight or on the diagonal? I've been pondering this. Diagonal is really cool, but I'm wondering if all the movement might be a little busy.

[Marlene]

Mostly she sees moths but they did have an invasion of those big gross roaches one time and she got sick of seeing the dead bodies up there in silhouette. Another reason for Dave to get rid of it eventually.

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Oh. My. God.

I managed to hold down the bile during the knife block discussion, but this sent me over the edge. Oh well, maybe it's nice and dry up there and it won't turn into a buggy bath house.

Have you decided whether you're laying the checkerboard floor straight or on the diagonal? I've been pondering this. Diagonal is really cool, but I'm wondering iff all the movement might be a little busy.

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You and me both Maggie.

I vote for diagonal.

[lovebenton0]

Thanks, Dave. I just poured boiling hot soapy water into the sink and scrubbed every knife I own! Just in case. Now the knife block is in the freezer -- thanks, fifi! This is central TX here.

[Steve Klc]

Dave, we had already done one bare-bones bottom-line somehow-achieve-minimal-functionality upgrade like you're undertaking and we made many of the same choices: painted all the walls white but left the old crappy floor tile in place, kept the old laminate countertops with the big st. st. sink but put a better faucet in to accommodate our water needs (you already seem to have at least a decent faucet) we did the exact same thing Shaw and others recommended and which you did with the outdated framed wooden cabs, painting them all completely white--putting some of the doors back, leaving some off for open storage of plates and other stuff we wanted quick access to--as long as these are not above or next to the stove you'll be fine grease/dirt accumulation-wise, put up the pegboard with hooks for all of our hand tools and pots, added two of those IKEA potlid racks, installed a much better natural fluorescent ceiling fixture as per Steven's suggestion, a big Metro shelving unit natch and a butcher block piece for cutting. Kept the old crappy but still functioning gas stove and the less old but still functioning dishwasher but had to buy a new basic all white decidely not chi-chi refrigerator and install a sink disposal. Total price for all this, including appliance delivery and a plumber's visit to install the new disposal plus put in two water shutoff valves that actually worked, we spent maybe $1200. That lasted a year, maybe two. Was it worth doing? Most definitely yes, it helped us decide what we really wanted and why.

Some decisions we made which have been discussed on this thread--we put our microwave (and a small excellent commercial convection oven, which we both had and didn't have to buy) on Metro shelving rather than over the stove or on the countertop. We use both of these a lot. There's a lot you could do with that open over-the-stove space that an ugly-ass too-expensive built-in too-big-anyway appliance would detract from. Put it where you'll use it comfortably within reach and within your usage zones. In our case that was in the slim metro shelving unit next to the fridge, because it sat in there perfectly flush, and all we had to do was turn around from the sink side to get at it or open the fridge door and reach up and to the left to put something in it.

There's also nothing worse than those weak-ass pretend vents which vent nowhere. No range hood is better than an under-powered one which supposedly recycles. Rip it out, hang pots, lids, tools, lighting instead. This space would be a nice area for you to put in some good under cabinet lighting as well if you found it for a price within your budget--and if you are keeping that black stove for a while, and manage to create some pot storage elsewhere and are a little artsy, some nice lighting here coupled with some nice colorful (usually Italian) backsplash tiles and a black shelf supporting a few dramatic red glass vases could refocus your guest's eyes here and keep them off everywhere else. Especially if you painted other tiles, including all those floral motif ones, red as well. This could be done cheaply with a big aesthetic bang.

We lived with that for a while and then this Summer did a more fully realized renovation ourselves over 3 months, a complete overhaul gutting the entire space, changing what we hated aesthetically about the old space (wood, overmount stainless sink, perception of age, framed cabinets and their corresponding inefficiency, general claustrophobic feeling, poor light) getting rid of absolutely every cabinet and appliance and keeping only the white fridge, but even that we moved out of our 10' by 8" kitchen and built it into a pantry just outside the formal kitchen space. We went white, aluminum, stainless steel and glass, creating a very clean, sanitary, bright, smooth, sleek space, with new tiled floor, new and used countertop surfaces of white Corian, one side with a matching white seamless sink, the opposite side a straight run, we also made one island work station topped with a 36" x 26" white/gray/black flecked granite piece which we got at a remnant price, upper cabs have aluminum and glass doors, lower cabs have stainless drawers and shelves, bought a new stove, dishwasher and wine storage unit, also all stainless. No Metro shelving and no wood anywhere, not even a cutting board. Mostly IKEA. But even this we did with a serious eye out for bargains at every step of the way. I talked a little about it on Mayhaw Man's renovation thread--I got a lot from IKEA during 75% off box sales or already assembled in As-is at deep discount, as they were breaking down their display kitchens to change them. I got most of my cabs, drawers, drawer fronts, doors and under cabinet halogens this way, plus I got really lucky with two serious runs of Corian, maybe 3K worth, for $10 each, any stains buffed right back to perfect white in a few minutes.

(By the way, I too coveted that LG microwave with built-in toaster someone mentioned from the minute I saw it at BB but our st. st. one was just fine.)

Now, if I could have done the first el-cheapo upgrade over again, I would have replaced all my old cheap laminate countertops with new IKEA laminate--you can easily do this yourself--laminate has come a long way and the IKEA stuff from France (Numerar) is really exceptional and cheap, much better than the laminates at Home Depot, even if you pay full price for it. It would have improved the space tremendously. We liked it so much we incorporated it into our most-recent overhaul, just not in the formal kitchen areas: we put it into a few kitchen extension "lab" spaces if you will, storage and work spaces which flow out either end of the 10' x 8' formal kitchen space--one piece of kitchen countertop became the top of a low audio-video/storage unit we designed and built from IKEA kitchen stuff and another length became the top of a counter height storage unit we built, also from IKEA kitchen stuff--in our case we paired the Numerar aluminum gray effect countertop with their new line of red acrylic Abstrakt door and drawer fronts, which are made in Italy, just like all the cool red furniture seems to be (page 190 of the 2005 US catalog.)

But back to you, if, unlike me, you like wood as a countertop, that IKEA Pronomen wood countertop halland recommended you slap on top of that now-used-elsewhere-chest is a nice piece and his is a nice idea--especially for the price. The Numerar wood is also great for the price. You could buy these cheaply in their As-is room, if you were near an IKEA, but new they are reasonably priced anyway. (They'd also work well as disposable cutting boards or lengths set on top of existing countertops, which you could throw out and replace when necessary.) Very long perfectly fine 26" wide sections of these Pronomen and Numerar countertops are frequently available for $20 in As-is. If you didn't like your "old" countertops after seeing them and working on them beneath your now white painted cabs--change them. It's cheap to do so, you can do it yourself, put the old sink right into a new countertop, because that's the surface you will be looking at most often when you are "in" your space.

That Varde base cabinet you considered for your A island worktable is really nice--very sturdy--in As-is for as low as $100--but it has one flaw--it has a shitty fibreboard backing tacked on--use it only if you can place it up against a wall or back something else against it--like other IKEA shelving or Metro shelving. But, after looking at your space, you might want to consider using a Varde as a base for an island, remove its top piece or not, and slap down something about as long but slightly wider--say 39" minimum--which would allow people to sit on stools on the B wall side of this A piece.

That would allow you to get rid of your B piece altogether, which would now be redundant. I also wouldn't put something in the C space either, leave it open. The problem with putting anything there is it is not a work zone, it's not where you're gonna be, where you'll want to reach for any gadget, etc. Granted that wheeled Sears toolbox is another way to get red into the space and granted you could always wheel that into your space and wheel it back. But it's still gonna stick out there and take up room.

So, my amateur design recommendation is you'd be better off to focus most of your remaining attention and money on that A space, slap together a large sturdy island work surface that does not move at all, with cabinets and drawers underneath to hold all your pots, pans, sheetrays, gadget/tool crap--but which would still be accessible in your stove work zone. Leave an overhang on the B side and people could sit there, looking inward toward the kitchen where you will be working, if not on the island than near the stove. If you are working on an eGCI lesson, that's where your photographer could set up and shoot your dish or step--on that island. Perhaps you could measure and design an island which would allow you to wheel and store the red Sears toolbox under it flush--you'd still see the red--but it wouldn't stick out taking up physical space, as it would if parked at C. And, making A into a multi-use island still keeps the rationale to cut the pass-through view space-opening hole in B's wall--now, later, whenever.

I have this Varde unit in one of those extended kitchen lab/dining room areas:

http://www.ikea-usa.com/webapp/wcs/stores/...110*10255*10257

But to make it work and match our dining table I had to rip off its very nice wood/butcher block top piece (the same as on the $399 Varde base cab you were considering) and replace it with a stainless steel table top. Now that piece rocks along with our dining room table, which has a matching stainless top, and with our current kitchen and lab spaces. (Both of those wood tables with stainless tops were from the Pottery Barn furniture outlet, cheap.)

Cheaper than the Varde as a partial base for your A island would be mixing and matching Akurum base cabs--back to back, back to side--and then securing a Numerar countertop to it. They make a wider piece that is not the standard 26" wide just for this purpose. You could have any combination of pull-outs, reach-ins, or open shelves underneath. This island could be built very reasonably, it also could be built in stages--meaning you add various doors and drawers in stages, as you could afford more, as how you will work there becomes more apparent to you: leave the stove side of the island open for pots, pans, sheetrays; put the pullout drawers underneath where you think you'll stand and work at the island, put items for long term storage underneath on the B side where you'll have the stools and won't likely want to reach down into often, etc.

In addition to what you've already achieved, I think if the bulk of your remaining budget this time went toward the creation on this island, and you replaced your other countertop pieces with the same surface (IKEA has a Numerar laminate color called "sand effect red" you might like) you could live and work in this space just fine until you could budget enough to upgrade the appliances. Pick up a small remnant piece of granite and one of wood, and you have a pastry board and cutting board which you can move all over your kitchen as needed. That's really all I'd try to do at this stage and budget.

But, should you stay in this space, and you get the urge to upgrade again, you could easily slap a nice full size Corian or granite countertop onto this existing IKEA island cabinetry, whichever look and surface feel you liked better. We like each a lot for different reasons. (You can also dream about this really really nice Italian composite stone surface called Quarella, which has a nice red color option "gemme rubino", if you go higher-end later and want to stay with red countertops. It's just starting to come into the US.) But you may like your red laminate so much you won't want to upgrade. You could even change door fronts as the color scheme of your kitchen evolved in this next phase--that's a nice advantage of those frameless white IKEA Akurum cabinets. And doing it this way means you could upgrade this space in stages, and not have to throw out or give away what you've already done. IKEA comes to Atlanta in the summer of 2005, in the meantime you could drive to TX or DC or have stuff shipped.

Oh, our knives are on magnetic strips and I have a red Kitchenaid piece o crap I could let you have for the right price. It's one of the newer style, wider flatter bowl models and I hate everything about it, so we've rarely used it.

[Priscilla]

Yay! My knife block, bless it, has nothing in it, except its knives and steel!

[Dave the Cook]

Today's lesson, children: RTFM.

Despite a really late start (life intrudes occasionally), I had high hopes as I began to pull up the shoe molding. Things went even faster when I decided that I wasn't going to be able to save it for re-use, and I just started ripping.

With the molding thoroughly trashed, I turned to the adhesive. I had told the guy I'd bought it from what I was going to do (install VCT over sheet vinyl), and this was the stuff he recommended. Unfortunately, the directions on the adhesive disagreed: "not recommended for use over existing vinyl sheet goods," and "embossed floors should be leveled to prevent 'telegraphing.'" If I'd been planning on cooking smething elaborate today, I'd have committed the recipe to memory by now, but of course I didn't see the analogy until this moment. I was egregiously guilty of mis en place deficiency.

Another trip to Home Depot ensued (I've stopped counting). I now have this stuff called "Embossing Leveler," acquired at the teeth-grinding price of $29.44 per quart. Luckily -- according to the instructions -- a quart is more than enough.

As for the proscription against sheet goods, I have two theories, and I hope that anyone with experinece in these things will stop me before I waste another day. First, a lot of sheet vinyl is a) cushioned, and b) coated with stuff to make it as permanently glossy as possible. This floor is not cushioned, and whatever surafce treatment it might have had at birth is long gone. Forgive me Armstrong; there is no gloss in it.

Second, these days sheet vinyl is just rolled out and loosely tacked around the edges. The only glue that's used is at seams, and that's to attach the sheets together, not to attach it to the floor. So if you were to lay a new floor over it (let's use VCT as an example, since heck, that's what we're using), and at some point you had to replace a tile, or if a corner came up and you started to tug at it, you'd likely find yourself in a real mess -- the upper tile, sticking to the loose vinyl below, would pull the entire floor up. But my floor is put down with adhesive all over. It's really tight (insert your own metaphor here).

Have I rationalized this enough? Is it safe?

[fifi]

Ok... To recap... Your sheet vinyl is fully glued down and tight to the floor. Now, the only question is, will the VCT stick. Do you have any doubts about that? IF so, you can try it out in some obscure space with a little scrap and see what it does. However, waiting for that test patch may delay your progress. You could call a flooring specialty store and ask. There are some big ones here that are usually pretty good at offering advice to DIYers.

What is RTFM?

[Dave the Cook]

I am not worried about it sticking. I don't know what I'm worried about, actually, except something completely unanticipated -- like the combination will create a noxious gas, or the new tile will melt down into a pink puddle and slide out the door. I used to write user documentation (from whence comes RTFM = Read The Fucking Manual), so I probably have an unhealthy respect for instructions.

[fifi]

-- like the combination will create a noxious gas, or the new tile will melt down into a pink puddle and  slide out the door. I used to write user documentation (from whence comes RTFM = Read The Fucking Manual), so I probably have an unhealthy respect for instructions.

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My visual mind created a scenario of the tile melting together and sliding out the door. There was this madman chasing the goo yelling... "Back to your places... Back to where you belong!"

BTW... I am curious from a question upthread. Are you going to lay it square or on the diagonal? I have a selfish reason for asking. I have been pondering the same question for the new kitchen since I am considering the classic black and white checkerboard for that and I find the diagonal somewhat strangely disturbing.

[Marlene]

Fifi. This may give you some idea of the black and white checkerboard effect.

the floor

This was a house we looked at but didn't buy.

[Dave the Cook]

Thanks, Marlene. That's an excellent example of the standard layout. I took out about two dozen tiles and looked at it both ways. There's such a strong diagonal component to the standard layout, and we're so used to seeing it that way, that running the tiles at 45 degrees to standard nearly induced a wave of vertigo. If you've ever been on an escalator where someone put up pictures or wallpaper parallel to the angle of the stairs, you have some idea of what it was like. You have to check twice to see if you're standing up straight.

[andiesenji]

Another question: who's going to give me a new red KitchenAid for Christmas? 

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Like this????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...4332308233&rd=1]176.99 on ebay, "buy it now"

Or were you looking for the smaller one that has the head that tips back?

Edited October 24, 2004 by andiesenji (log)

[Marlene]

Another question: who's going to give me a new red KitchenAid for Christmas? 

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Like this????

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...4332308233&rd=1]176.99 on ebay, "buy it now"

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We have a a rule in our house about this time of year. We can't buy anything for ourselves until after Christmas, otherwise Santa will have nothing to bring us.

[andiesenji]

In my house there is just me and my housekeeper now. My family and friends tend to give or send gift certificates because they are aware of my propensity for buying new gadgets and small appliances and what-not, on impulse, when I see it. I simply have no will power when it comes to some things..........

[Dave the Cook]

Floor update:

It's blue:

This is the leveler. For reference, here's what it looked like before (I picked a particularly nasty part of the floor, and boosted the contrast, so you could see what's going on a little better):

You can see what the leveler does -- it just lays down in the debosses, to render a uniformly flat surface. I have tips for anyone who needs to use this stuff, but perhaps it's a bit OT. Suffice to say that I'm about two hours behind schedule, and I haven't started the soup for tonight. I hope my intricate plan for leaving the fridge accessible works.

[andiesenji]

How could it be OT. Part of renovation. Please post tips. You may save another much grief....