Fresh ground pepper service at restaurants

[Minister of Drink]

Last week at a business lunch at Jean Michel in Rockville/Bethesda, I was offered fresh ground pepper with my salad. I remember being pleasantly surprised by this gesture because more often that not I have had to ask at various other places (from the average to the very good).

Am I just being picky when I think that restaurants should always offer fresh ground pepper for salad courses and other dishes? Obviously I could care less about the TGI Fridays or similar places…

[eunny jang]

No. But conversely, I hate it when the waiter comes up brandishing some giant phallic thing in my face before I've even had the chance to taste it. Same with Parmigiano.

Edit: that sounds dirty. But you all know what I meant.

Edited September 28, 2004 by eunny jang (log)

[NulloModo]

Hmmm, well I love black pepper, I feel there are few things that can not be made better without fresh cracked black pepper, so I personally don't mind it coming along before I have tasted. and honestly, I have eaten enough Caesar salads in my day to know what one tastes like before taking the first bite, I don't need to test it to know that pepper will enhance it.

[tommy]

Hmmm, well I love black pepper, I feel there are few things that can not be made better without fresh cracked black pepper, so I personally don't mind it coming along before I have tasted.  and honestly, I have eaten enough Caesar salads in my day to know what one tastes like before taking the first bite, I don't need to test it to know that pepper will enhance it.

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i find pepper very much different than say salt, cheese, or cinnamon for that matter in that respect. in a perfect world, i suppose, i'd have 3 bites of whatever it is i'm eating, make the determination if i require more black pepper, snap my fingers and have a servant run over to crack it for me. however, the present system seems to work pretty well in my experience, although i usually take contol of the mill myself, if appropriate.

even better is a pepper grinder on my table (+2 points to every restaurant with this...and don't go giving me that lame excuse of how it costs so much because people steal them. please. it's a cost of doing business). even better than that is a pepper grinder on my table and a dish of kosher salt next to it.

[eunny jang]

Hmmm, well I love black pepper, I feel there are few things that can not be made better without fresh cracked black pepper, so I personally don't mind it coming along before I have tasted.  and honestly, I have eaten enough Caesar salads in my day to know what one tastes like before taking the first bite, I don't need to test it to know that pepper will enhance it.

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Yes, but how are you supposed to know how much will make that Caesar taste delicious? Sure, he tells you to say "when" - but how are you supposed to know when "when" is? Say you ask for a judicious amount and discover that the dressing is seasoned well already, or that the dressing is insipid and you're going to need a lot more. I'd rather have one on my table as well.

[NulloModo]

Yes, but how are you supposed to know how much will make that Caesar taste delicious?  Sure, he tells you to say "when" - but how are you supposed to know when "when" is?  Say you ask for a judicious amount and discover that the dressing is seasoned well already, or that the dressing is insipid and you're going to need a lot more.  I'd rather have one on my table as well.

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I agree, I would love to have on on the table as well.

Then again, I am not in danger of ever getting too much. I usually end up saying when because the waiters hand starts to look tired more than I am actually satisfied with the amount of pepper ;).

[tommy]

regarding the "how much" issue before tasting, i think, for the most part, i can tell by sight. this comes from experience with cooking, and is probably based on a few assumptions about the cook at the restaurant in question. namely, is he/she using the same coarseness of pepper that i'd use...which is what my eye would pick up and what my brain would make the determination on.

quite frankly i only ask for pepper on things like steak, burgers, some salads, and some pastas. other than that i assume, usually correctly, that the kitchen has done a fine job seasoning. with those foods in particular, though, i think of extra pepper as more of a condiment of sorts.

i'd be curious as to what percentage of diners would claim that they've had a notable number of dishes ruined by too much pepper.

Edited September 28, 2004 by tommy (log)

[hshiau]

I love fresh ground pepper on many dishes. It doesn't matter much to me if it's on the table or if the server brings it. But they need to have to have it SOMEWHERE.

Funny thing when I went to Metrazur for lunch the other day. They had pepper mills on the table but the pepper was coming out as pretty large chunks. Totally destroyed my salad.

[tommy]

Funny thing when I went to Metrazur for lunch the other day.  They had pepper mills on the table but the pepper was coming out as pretty large chunks.  Totally destroyed my salad.

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they weren't adjustable? i suppose the next question might be: didn't you see the pepper and make that determination before continuing to grind and subsequently destroying your salad?

Edited September 28, 2004 by tommy (log)

[KatieLoeb]

I love being offered fresh pepper with my meal. I always have some on salads. Entrees I need to taste first an gauge whether it needs it, although I tend to usually do so on pasta.

I really hate when the waiter comes over brandishing something that looks like it was once a bedpost. If the waiter can stand more than three feet away whilst peppering my food, the mill is TOO DAMNED BIG!

[hshiau]

they weren't adjustable?  i suppose the next question might be:  didn't you see the pepper and make that determination before continuing to grind and subsequently destroying your salad?

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All it took was one turn to mess it up. Adjustable? They're adjustable? Duh.

[Minister of Drink]

I love fresh ground pepper on many dishes.  It doesn't matter much to me if it's on the table or if the server brings it.  But they need to have to have it SOMEWHERE.

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You’re right… they do need to have it somewhere. But it’s just a nice gesture and extra good service if the server offers to grind it for you.

All it took was one turn to mess it up.  Adjustable?  They're adjustable?  Duh. 

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Then that restaurant went out of its way to purchase the crappiest peppermills money can buy.... If you ever want to check, look on the bottom of the peppermill to see the manufacturer -- if it's Peugot you've got the best!!! I have one that's more than 25 years old and still grinds like champ!

[hshiau]

Then that restaurant went out of its way to purchase the crappiest peppermills money can buy....  If you ever want to check, look on the bottom of the peppermill to see the manufacturer -- if it's Peugot you've got the best!!!  I have one that's more than 25 years old and still grinds like champ!

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I didn't mean to make it seem like the restaurant bought cheap grinders. They may have but I don't know that. The "duh" referred to me. It seems I've always like the pepper at whatever setting they were at so I never realized that you can adjust it.

[Minister of Drink]

I didn't mean to make it seem like the restaurant bought cheap grinders.  They may have but I don't know that.  The "duh" referred to me.  It seems I've always like the pepper at whatever setting they were at so I never realized that you can adjust it.

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Some are slightly adjustable (to the size of the grain). Once you've had a Peugot (and some of the other better ones out there) you'll be able to easily recognize a bad one.

[phaelon56]

I hate it when the waiter comes up brandishing some giant phallic thing in my face before I've even had the chance to taste it. Same with Parmigiano.

Edit: that sounds dirty. But you all know what I meant.

I know what you meant but it's not what I thought.

I really hate when the waiter comes over brandishing something that looks like it was once a bedpost.  If the waiter can stand more than three feet away whilst peppering my food, the mill is TOO DAMNED BIG!

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Just be happy that the giant phallic thing is not being brandished directly in your face

I'm in agreement with all that a small pepper grinder on every table scores huge points. My mother often asks why I frequently put pepper on my food before I taste it. The answer is easy: because I know it needs it.

[JAZ]

i'd be curious as to what percentage of diners would claim that they've had a notable number of dishes ruined by too much pepper. 

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Not a "notable number, perhaps, but all it takes is one really bad experience. I was at a relatively high end restaurant a few years ago where I ordered a "house salad," which, unbeknownst to me, was dressed with a very peppery vinaigrette. The addition of the fresh ground pepper offered me turned the salad into an extremely bitter, nasty dish. Ever since then, I always taste a bite before accepting, even if I think I'm going to want it.

[Minister of Drink]

I'm in agreement with all that a small pepper grinder on every table scores huge points. My mother often asks why I frequently put pepper on my food before I taste it. The answer is easy: because I know it needs it.

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I agree!!!! Not only because the food sometimes needs it, but also becasue fresh pepper just tastes great!!!!!!!

[tommy]

Not a "notable number, perhaps, but all it takes is one really bad experience. I was at a relatively high end restaurant a few years ago where I ordered a "house salad," which, unbeknownst to me, was dressed with a very peppery vinaigrette. The addition of the fresh ground pepper offered me turned the salad into an extremely bitter, nasty dish. Ever since then, I always taste a bite before accepting, even if I think I'm going to want it.

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i'll keep score. so that's one person with one meal out of presumably thousands of meals.

anyone else?

[eunny jang]

i'd be curious as to what percentage of diners would claim that they've had a notable number of dishes ruined by too much pepper. 

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I just think it's a little more thoughtful to wait a moment before offering pepper. Doesn't hurt anyone and only slows things down for a moment.

[Minister of Drink]

I just think it's a little more thoughtful to wait a moment before offering pepper.  Doesn't hurt anyone and only slows things down for a moment.

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I see your point... I am more concerned with that fresh ground pepper is even offered at all!!!! Plus you can always call a server back.

[tommy]

I just think it's a little more thoughtful to wait a moment before offering pepper.  Doesn't hurt anyone and only slows things down for a moment.

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i think the idea that it would only slow things down a bit is debatable. the system, as it is set up now, likely relies on a triggering event. that triggering event is the food coming out to the table (usually by brought by a runner). at this point, it's clear to the staff handling the table that the food is there, wine glasses should be checked, and pepper/cheese should be offered.

to build a lag in to the process, one which accounts for the various amounts of time that people might take to start tasting their food, would be very difficult in my eyes, and take up more resources (considering time/personnel) than a dining room likely has. not to mention all of the people who would sit there and wait for the pepper to arrive before eating. they'd be cursing the staff and complaining about them on egullet.

so, i think it's a good idea to present the pepper with the food. you can always wave him off and then call him back (this, i think, would be the exception).

personally, i often bring my own peppermill, so i don't have these dlillemmas.

[melkor]

Apparently I'm the only person who thinks the kitchen should properly season my food before they put it on the table. Not that I'm against having salt and pepper at the table, but needing them should be the exception rather than the rule.

[ghostrider]

Edited to remove bad joke. Please carry on.

Edited September 29, 2004 by ghostrider (log)

[NulloModo]

Apparently I'm the only person who thinks the kitchen should properly season my food before they put it on the table.  Not that I'm against having salt and pepper at the table, but needing them should be the exception rather than the rule.

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Everyone likes their food seasoned to a different level though. Some like it saltier, some like it pepperier (is that a word?). I am all for a system similar to what you find in most Korean/Indian places where you get an entire condiment tray.

[tommy]

Everyone likes their food seasoned to a different level though.

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absolutely. the concept that there's a "correct" amount of pepper that should go on a steak strikes me as absurd and naive. among other things.