Bi-racial cooking partnerships

[Gary Soup]

So, what's in Chinese luncheon meat?

I've never had the experience. 

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For shame, Dejah! The most beloved brand, Ma Ling (a proud product of Shanghai) is actually made in Canada for North American consumption. Head for your nearest big Asian market and grab a tin.

Ma Ling is good enough to be in the Potted Meat Museum, though the Spam mavens at the Guide to Spam-like Products found it "bland" and "a poor substitute for Spam."

The real luch meat master chefs are in Hawaii, where you can get a Bento Box with both lunch meat (top right) and Spam (bottom right).

Maybe we should start another thread for Spam Fried Rice recipes .

Edited September 26, 2004 by Gary Soup (log)

[Dejah]

For shame, Dejah! The most beloved brand, Ma Ling (a proud product of Shanghai) is actually made in Canada for North American consumption. Head for your nearest big Asian market and grab a tin.

I am living a life of deprivation . . . of Chinese luncheon meat!

To top it all off, my deprived "gwai lo" hubby is sitting beside me, asking if it contains dog meat!

I'll have to check the store next time I go to Winnipeg. Better stock up before Ben comes west for his bird hunt.

[Ben Hong]

Nah, I can take or leave Spam or Prem or Klik. In my impoverished youth, luncheon meats were Prime Meats . Now, I can't remember the last time I went near the stuff.

Now, you can give me canned corned beef any old day, as long as it's the "Hereford Brand" made in Brazil. Ya ain't et nuttin' 'til ya had a slab of corned beef on rye with hot mustard. Also corned beef hash to me has always meant Hereford corned beef, onions, green onions, cold mashed potatoes, fried in bacon drippings. Topped with a couple of eggs lightly over and some chow-chow relish = instant flashback to the CPR, cookshacks in northern Quebec lumber camps, hardrock goldmines in the Abitibi, 3 mile portages while cutting lines in Mattagami as a summer job. Homemade canned moose is almost equal to hereford corned beef.

[spaghetttti]

Dejah, this is a fascinating topic, thank you for starting it.

hzrtw8 has described me. My sister and cousins live in the States and have all married Caucasians. Evidently I have, like hzrtw8's wife, stuck with my own kind (just different tribes!).

It seems that my sister and her family only eat Indonesian food when I come over for a visit. It's a trade off, they cook my favorite "American" dishes, and I'll prepare some of their requests. I love that my brother-in-law has frequently asked my mom to teach him how to cook some our family favorites. He is a fantastic cook. I'm sure my brother-in-law and his family had never heard of Indonesia before meeting my sister and our family. (They still are amazed we have McDonald's and Pizza Hut here, wait til I tell them that Starbucks has landed in Bandung! They'll freak!)

My nephews are grade school age and surprisingly have passed that picky eating stage and love all types of cuisines.

Now, one of my cousins lives in Maine, and I don't think they eat anything but what's good up there, delicious New England cuisine. My cousin-in-law was first exposed to Asian food when she met my cousin, and I'm under the impression that she is still exploring.

Another thing, all of my stateside nephews take after their Asian parents, but the combination of Asian/American makes for such cutie pies!

BTW there was some discussion upthread about Potted Meat and Spam. Well, anything's got to be better than what I can get here:

Edited September 27, 2004 by spaghetttti (log)

[hzrt8w]

Here is an observation on our typical family dinner gathering.

First of all, the dinner must be Chinese food because my PILs don't eat anything else. Second of all, we always go to that one restaurant my PILs like. Yes, the same one for the past 10 years (since they opened basically). We order the same set family dinner every time.

There are 4 groups in the family: <me> my PILs and me are traditional Chinese. <abc> my wife and her brothers. <sil> my Caucasian sisters-in-laws. and <kids> all are cute Chinese-White mix.

Soup: Crab meat and winter melon soup. All groups like them except <sil>.

Honey glazed shrimp (mayo) with roasted walnuts. <sil> love them. <me> so-so. <abc><kids> welcome them.

Deep-fried chicken. All groups love them. Everybody races to grab the best pieces. I love the wings and dark meat. <kids> like drumsticks.

Pork chop, Jing Dao style: (bit sweet and sour) <me> and <abc> like them <sil> love them. <kids> so so.

Beef with vegetables (gai lan): <me><abc> love them. <sil><kids> so so.

Sauteed seafood with snow peas in a bird nest: <me> like them. <abc> so so. <sil><kids> never touch this dish.

Steam fish, ginger and scallions on top, soy sauce: <me> love it. <abc> okay. <sil><kids> take on tiny bit.

Shrimps, salt and pepper: <me> love them (well, PILs couldn't eat them because of high cholesterol level). <kids> only one like them, others don't. <abc> okay. <sil> one likes them, one doesn't.

Crabs, ginger and scallions: <abc> okay. <sil><kids> never touch this dish. <me>, no, my PILs don't eat much seafood. It's really just Me like it. My record is eating 1 and 3/4 Dungeness crabs all by myself in front of everybody.

Pork fried rice: <me><abc><sil> okay. <kids>... garble garble garble.

Dessert: sweet red bean concoction <me> love it. <abc><kids> okay. <sil> never touch it.

So, it seems that the only common denominator is the deep-fried chicken.

Edited October 3, 2004 by hzrt8w (log)

[Dejah]

Nah, I can take or leave Spam or Prem or Klik. In my impoverished youth, luncheon meats were Prime Meats . Now, I can't remember the last time I went near the stuff.

Now, you can give me canned corned beef any old day, as long as it's the "Hereford Brand" made in Brazil.  Ya ain't et nuttin' 'til ya had a slab of corned beef on rye with hot mustard. Also corned beef hash to me has always meant Hereford corned beef, onions, green onions, cold mashed potatoes, fried in bacon drippings. Topped with a couple of eggs lightly over and some chow-chow relish = instant flashback to the CPR,  cookshacks in  northern Quebec lumber camps, hardrock goldmines in the Abitibi, 3 mile portages while cutting lines in Mattagami as a summer job. Homemade canned moose is almost equal to hereford corned beef.

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Just heard from our son, who was cast as a member of a Lancaster bomber crew for a 4 hour living history documentary. (www. airmuseum.ca/reach.html) They were served corned beef hash using Hereford Brand. He liked it!

My hubby Bill is webmaster for the Manitoba Dragoons museum. Every year they have a fund raiser, and the main fare is always "bully beef", actually Hereford Brand"corned beef, served with rye bread. I used to buy the stuff quite often, then forgot about it until now.

[Gary Soup]

Whoa, Dejah!

Hope this is on-topic, but I just noticed and checked out the URL in your new signature line.

Who'da thunk you were (are?) a rising Country music queen, opening for Jeannie C. Riley, no less (and a babe too, I might add). I guess you weren't being coy with all your references to being a "prairie woman."

Any stories about Chinese restaurants on the rodeo circuit?

Whoo-eee! Thanks for "coming out."

[Gary Soup]

So, it seems that the only common denominator is the deep-fried chicken.

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Sounds like your SIL's need some education. I don't have any comparable survey to report, as my side of the family lives 3,000 mile from us, and because of my wife's work commitments I usually travel alone when I visit my mother. My multitude of siblings, nieces, nephews, grandnieces and grandnephews and their spouses all profess to like Chinese food, though (such as it is in my mother's small town.)

You did remind me, though, that the biggest food-related cultural gap between me and my wife is that I have the gweilo Fear of Fishbones and prefer my shellfish shelled (too much hassle otherwise, though a good-sized Dungeness has a tolerable reward-to-effort ratio). My wife will sometimes deign to serve me "xiaren", but has no use at all for filleted fish.

[Ben Hong]

Gary, Dejah is our own true "Churchillian" Woman, and I don't mean that she comes from Churchill, Manitoba. Stand and be in awe.

[Dejah]

It feels like Churchill in the winter this weekend. Have had frost the last 2 nights.

I will post about the Chinese restaurants on the rodeo circut when I get back. On the run again this weekend . . . just got back from a qi-gong workshop, rushed home to cook supper ( velvet diced chicken with baby corn, mushrooms, waterchestnuts over jasmin rice, winter melon soup). Now I have to pick my daughter up from her Celtic harp teaching duties and deliver her to volunteer for St. John Ambulance for a Wheat Kings hockey game...then I am going for a qi-gong treatment for my shoulder with my sifu...then...........

[Dejah]

Whoa, Dejah!

Any stories about Chinese restaurants on the rodeo circuit?

Whoo-eee! Thanks for "coming out."

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Chinese restaurants on the rodeo circuit....

For several years, we toured as a PR band for a grain company called Federal Grain.

During Canada's Centennial, and Manitoba Centennial, they sent us to every mid-sized city and small town in western Canada. Being away from home for 2 months at a time, Bill and I were always searching for a Chinese restaurant for a rice fix.

On the prairies, there is a Chinese restaurant in every town. The thing I remember the most is how all the family members of these restaurants would take turns coming out of the kitchen to check out this Chinese girl escorted by 5 white males. Remember, this was in the late '60s, early '70s when bi-racial marriages were uncommon. Then the guys would prod me to order food, in Chinese. Once they found out I could speak Cantonese and Toisanese, they'd adopt me for the duration that we were in their community. 4 of the guys would only eat Canadianized Chinese food, or the usual hamburger steak, pork chop, etc. while Bill and I would be treated to real home cooking.

Then they'd find out that I was an entertainer (a Chinese girl entertainer was pretty unusual for these prairie folks), they'd come to our evening shows at the fair/rodeo grounds. If we didn't make it down for supper, they'd hold supper until we could go down later. I think that was the first time I had "squirrel fish".

At that time, all the restaurants had pretty much the same menus...chop suey, chow mein, sweet & sour ribs, battered shrimp. But what the owners ate was the best! One thing I hadn't eaten since I left Hong Kong in '58 was pigeon. One family had been out doing pigeon population control. We had pigeon cooked with "yurk choi", Chinese herbs that evening. It was Bill's first time and as usual, he liked everything. They were always amazed how adept he was with chopsticks.

By the time we toured Montana, as part of a grandstand show, we had our motor home. I did a lot of our own cooking. Didn't do much Chinese as I fed everyone in the band. We met up with entertainers from California and they'd introduced us to Mexican food. That was our food focus. Man! Loved that guacamole and hot salsa!

For Bill, his introduction to dim sum was on a 3 week holiday trip with my parents. We drove down through the American heartlands via Chicago, several of the southern states and westward to California, north thru' Washington , Vancouver and eastward home to Manitoba.

My dad's main focus was finding a Chinese restaurant and a Holiday Inn at every stop. As soon as we were seated, there'd be eyes peeking out of the kitchen doors. My dad took that as an invitation to go and talk to the cook! Each time, we'd end up getting traditional Chinese food rather than the menu items. We usually hit the smaller restaurants rather than big fancy ones. One of our most memorable suppers was in Nashville, Tenn. As we were driving into the city, passing Opryland, we spotted a huge neon restaurant sign: CHOY'S. My dad was so excited as that is our family name. We went there for supper, and found out that the owner was indeed from our village in Toisan, and he actually went to school with my brother. This was a big restaurant, and the food they brought out ... a braiser with BBQ ribs, pork, chicken wings, wontons, bak jam gai, steamed fish, Chinese mushrooms and abalone, lots of vegetables...I wish digitals were available then!

When we hit big cities, we'd try and find Chinatown for lunch. Bill and I learned a lot about dim sum during that trip. To this day, har gow and sui mai are still his favourites. LA's Chinatown was an incredible experience, food and all. Then we hit San Francisco. Whoa!!! We loved the streets, the little shops and restaurants tucked in tiny alleys, etc in Chinatown.

BTW, Gary and Ben, thanks for the compliments.

[Gary Soup]

Gary, Dejah is our own true "Churchillian" Woman, and I don't mean that she comes from Churchill, Manitoba. Stand and be in awe.  

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Churchillian? Well, I can kind of see Winston doing some serious flat pickin', though I can't see him cooking up chow. And he definitely wouldn't have looked as good in a scoop-neck gown. On the other hand, I can't see Dejah holding a candle to him in the boozing department.

[Ben Hong]

Sue On, your story about touring all the small towns and eating in Chinese restaurants remind me of my youthful days in the military. I used to bet my buddies whenever we visited a small town in Ontario (especially North) that I would be recognized and greeted as a long lost relative in any restaurant or laundry we went into. I got a lot of free meals and won a lot of bets.

You see, my grandfather was one of the fortunate ones who was literate in both Chinese and English. A lot of the Toisan lo wah kieu in the mining and logging towns of North Ontario and Quebec barely knew one language and when it came time to bring family over after 1947, my grandfather did a lot of the correspondence and form-filling work for these men.

I learned early on that mentioning that I was the grandson of such and such brought "immediate rewards".

I am counting off the days when I'll finally get to meet your family. Cheers.

[herbacidal]

Here is an observation on our typical family dinner gathering.

First of all, the dinner must be Chinese food because my PILs don't eat anything else.  Second of all, we always go to that one restaurant my PILs like.  Yes, the same one for the past 10 years (since they opened basically).  We order the same set family dinner every time. 

Wow those are very normal traditional Cantonese dishes. Or at least dishes that I'm used to being as Cantonese. If they originate elsewhere, I didn't know.

Hmm, does this set family dinner cost $98? Or perhaps $138?

[hzrt8w]

Wow those are very normal traditional Cantonese dishes.  Or at least dishes that I'm used to being as Cantonese.  If they originate elsewhere, I didn't know.

Hmm, does this set family dinner cost $98?  Or perhaps $138?

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Traditional Cantonese, absolutely. My parents-in-laws would not have it any other way. (I am okay with sichuan/hunan/mandarin/shanghai. <abc> & <sil> want Italian or Mexican. <kids> want McDonalds. Go figure.)

$98? Sacramento is no San Francisco. Family dinner for 10-12 would not be that low.

$138? Maybe... but MIL gets frequent-patron discounts. Plus she's a bargain shopper. The price is probably like $128.88.

[Dejah]

Sue On, your story about touring all the small towns and eating in Chinese restaurants remind me of my youthful days in the military.

You see, my grandfather was one of the fortunate ones who was literate in both Chinese and English.

I learned early on that mentioning that I was the grandson of such and such brought "immediate rewards".

Our family histories are certainly similar, Ben. My dad came to Canada in his teenage years, had total immersion and attended serveal years at the local school. He never went to high school but he continued learning on his own.

All along the Yellowhead Route, a higway running parallel north of the Trans-Canada Highway, most of the restaurants, in Manitoba anyway, were owned by people from our village. Most of them were Choys. Other men didn't have the same educational opportunities, so they relied on my dad, as they did with your grandfather.

Isn't it amazing how other Chinese can tell who you belong to once they hear your name? Or even your toisanese accent? They can go back generations! Do you know anything about the men's name, how they can tell which generation, etc? Did your grandfather and dad have 2 names?

Great get-togethers happened whenever one of the MEN had a birthday. What an occasion these were...the best food! I remember receiving parcels with shark fins, birds nests from my relatives in Vancouver just for these events. These were really the only times the people saw other Chinese. The women traded recipes, etc. My mom cooked her first suckling pig for such an occasion. I couldn't believe how my mom was able to cradle that cute little pig down the stairs, saying what a lovely little piggie it was, etc, only to butcher it for supper. I am glad she did, as that was the first time in several years since I last had shew yook in HK.

Bill was introduced to Chinese mushrooms and abalone at one of these get-togethers.

He loves that dish. Let's just say, he loves all things Chinese.

Gary, I would definitely not be able to keep up with Winstone in the boozing OR cigar department. Alcohol and I don't mix. I don't know about the rest of the Asians posting...does your face turn red when you drink? Did you have to build up a tolerance? My brother seems to think so. He did that with his 3 daughters. I can sip on an inch of wine for the whole evening. Any more, I'd be under the table!

Ok, I am pounding the hell out of this keyboard. Still trying to keep this on a food topic;-) That qi-gong yesterday really packed a wallop!

[hzrt8w]

Isn't it amazing how other Chinese can tell who you belong to once they hear your name? Or even your toisanese accent? They can go back generations! Do you know anything about the men's name, how they can tell which generation, etc? Did your grandfather and dad have 2 names?

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My father told me that back in his village in China, they have a village name book which dictated which generation will bear a given first name or middle name. For example, his middle name is Kai. All males around his age in the village have Kai as the middle name. In my generation, my 2 brothers and I have the same given name, and only differ in the middle names. My 2 sisters have the same middle name, and only differ in the given names. That's how they sort of recognize which generation one belongs.

But then, the new generations who grow up in the US/Canada know nothing about these naming rules. It doesn't work any more. Some new ABC or CBC don't even have Chinese names. If you ever go back to your own village in China, though, I'll bet that they still follow those naming rules.

Your story about your father going to the Chinese restaurant in every small town sounds very familiar. My father-in-law doesn't travel much. My wife and I did take her parents to a few road trips in the past few years. Whenever we past through a small town (California and Oregon and Washinton), her father had a tendancy to go and eat at any Chinese restaurant that came in sight. He said even if we didn't dine there, he would like to go in to the restaurant and "take a look" (meaning probably to talk to the cook or the owner's family). Perhaps this is a Toisanese immigrant trait?

[trillium]

My father told me that back in his village in China, they have a village name book which dictated which generation will bear a given first name or middle name.  For example, his middle name is Kai.  All males around his age in the village have Kai as the middle name.  In my generation, my 2 brothers and I have the same given name, and only differ in the middle names.  My 2 sisters have the same middle name, and only differ in the given names.  That's how they sort of recognize which generation one belongs.

But then, the new generations who grow up in the US/Canada know nothing about these naming rules. It doesn't work any more. Some new ABC or CBC don't even have Chinese names. If you ever go back to your own village in China, though, I'll bet that they still follow those naming rules.

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Hmmm. I wouldn't be so sure that just ABCs or CBCs don't do this nowadays. The partner's family, which is Hokkien, but have been in Singapore for the last 3 gens, do this, and when the mainlanders I work with (not all city folks, some country guys too) found out about it, they commented on how old fashioned it was and intimated that no one in mainland China does it any more. Curious. Maybe regional?

Oh, and I have to say, most of these guys I work with like going to the crappiest "Chinese" restaurants in town, because they're cheap and you get lots of food! They don't really seem to care what it tastes like.

regards,

trillium

[Gary Soup]

when the mainlanders I work with (not all city folks, some country guys too) found out about it, they commented on how old fashioned it was and intimated that no one in mainland China does it any more.  Curious.  Maybe regional?

regards,

trillium

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With a one-child-per-family policy, there's not much need for generation names within a family, at least.

For the same reason, and also because the old system is considered by many to be "feudal", there's been a rise in one-character given names. My Stepdaughter and one of her two cousins both have one-character names (her other cousin, Xiao Qing, was so named because her father was nuts about the actress Liu Xiao Qing).

[TotallyNutz]

Wow, great topic.

I'm ABC and hubby is Puerto Rican. His idea of Chinese food before he met me was typical Chinese takeout. I immediately set out to correct all of this. I took him to real Chinese restaurants in NYC Chinatown. Totally loved everything that I introduced him to with the exception of the more exotic stuff (chicken feet). He loved the authentic stuff so much that we had a traditional Chinese banquet instead of the usual wedding reception when we were married eight years ago. Now, his family wasn't too crazy about the stuff, especially since our menu was seafood heavy to boot. They were also of the "takeout" mold. Only three or four people in his family truly enjoyed everything that was served. Even his own grandfather made the truly embarrasing comment of "where's the pork fried rice and spareribs" but thankfully in Spanish.

Hubby does enjoy my mom's home cooking with the exception of haum yee, fooyee, haum ha and bitter melon (which happens to still be my favorite comfort food items). He does cook but I'm somewhat hopeless in the cooking department when it comes to Chinese food. I'm decent when it comes to Puerto Rican food. Don't know why I can master that but not Chinese food, I guess if I need a comfort food fix I just go home to my mom .

[SobaAddict70]

Welcome to eGullet, TotallyNutz.

I'm Filipino/Chinese, and it took me a while as well to get over chicken feet. Remind me sometime to tell you all about the chicken feet soup story (but not in this thread ).

Soba

[Ben Hong]

Sue-On, My Grandfather's generational indicator name was "Yick", my father's was "Sai". Each family clan uses a particular series of names which are written in a rhyming poem. These names are completely different than the names given at birth, and from my observations, they are not used among people in the familiar sense, only in the formal sense. It is a way of keeping generations and geneologies straight. I am trying to get my clan's poem, before all my elders and contemporaries die off and we are left only with "jook sing"

Jeeze, the way that our respective backgrounds have such similarities, are you sure you're not the "moi-moi" I didn't think I had.

[hzrt8w]

Hubby does enjoy my mom's home cooking with the exception of haum yee, fooyee, haum ha and bitter melon (which happens to still be my favorite comfort food items).

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Welcome!

I think these are acquired tastes. Reminds me that one time I was onboard a Lufthansa flight from LA to Frankfurt. They served a triangular piece of cheese with the meal just as a snack. Without looking, I bit into it. Wowwww!!! The taste... I found out later that it was a blue cheese. Nowadays I like to use it for cooking, but am sure if I ever want to eat it as is.

He does cook but I'm somewhat hopeless in the cooking department when it comes to Chinese food.  I'm decent when it comes to Puerto Rican food.  Don't know why I can master that but not Chinese food, ...

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I think Chinese and French are probably the most difficult (but tasty) cuisines to master. If you can do that, other cuisines of the world may be relatively easy.

[Dejah]

Welcome to eGullet, TotallyNutz.

I'm Filipino/Chinese, and it took me a while as well to get over chicken feet. Remind me sometime to tell you all about the chicken feet soup story (but not in this thread ).

Welcome! TotallyNutz

It's ok, Soba. You can tell your story here. Most of us like chicken feet.

Do you clip the toe nails off first?

Edited October 6, 2004 by Dejah (log)

[hzrt8w]

Sue-On, My Grandfather's generational indicator name was "Yick", my father's was "Sai". Each family clan uses a particular series of names which are written in a rhyming poem.

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Yick as in "thinking of, remembering"?

Sai as in "West"?

If so, your family had been thinking about the West (Canada relative to China) generations ago.