L'Ecole des Chefs

[Bux]

I think it should come as no surprise that many chefs are not in their kitchens on a full time basis for a variety of reasons. We can start with the fact that many chefs have several restaurants these days. Chefs who are also owners, are to a great extent, executives as much as they are artists and craftsmen. They are not cooking every dish anymore than the great renaissance painters painted every canvas that came from their studio. I think I've mentioned Loiseau's comment that his sous chef cooks Loiseau better than he himself did.

Sometimes I wonder where a chef should be expected to be at any time. Regis Marcon not only greeted diners at their table before diner, but personally carved and served our lamb at tableside last week. Michel Bras was actively working in the kitchen at ten in the morning, but by the time we had finished dinner the night before, he had already left for the evening.

My sympathies here, lie with Paula because this has been a frustrating experience even if she can ultimately arrange a session to her satisfaction. I have some sympathy for the program as well as it appears they are trying to honestly offer a special experience, but that the logistics are beyond their control to too great an extent.

[ajay]

Bux,

welcome back!  I'm dying for a report of your experiences, espcially at Bras....Don't make me beg!

[Bux]

Slowly, as I collect my notes and get up to speed here on eGullet. Bras was excellent, but it was opening night. We though we might sneak in a light lunch, but found out dinner was the first meal of the season, so we went back to town, had some salad and bought our knives. Anyway, they seemed a bit disorganized at times in the service department, though fortunately not in the kitchen. The biggest problem for Bras is that he has to be perfect just to meet expectations. Everyone else got the chance to be better than expected.

[PaulaJ]

Cabrales,

 My program was a gift so I am uncertain of its price.

I suspect that you could find answers re; cost on the

school's web site. Some chefs provide only the 2 day

program [e.g. Marc Meneau] while others offer a 5 day

program. This difference would, of course, be reflected

in the price of the program.

[PaulaJ]

I have had some requests for an evaluation of the L'Ecole

des Chefs program I just participated in. I am in the progress

of organizing my thoughts into a letter to them and will post

more after that is accomplished. As you may read into this, the

experience was not all that I had hoped [to put it mildly!].

However, re: Gerard Boyer's Les Crayeres staff meals---I don't know

if breakfast is offered to the 'day shift' as I did not arrive as early

as they did [7:30am, I think]. Various sectors of the personnel

dine at different times during each meal period. I don't know whether

they all have the same menu. [Needless to add, Boyer and upper

management have trays sent up to them per their order for the

day.] There are 2 kitchen crews; they changeover at 3pm. The kitchen

has 11am and, I think, 6 or 6:30pm as their dining times.

The diningroom is a simple but neat & clean room in the basement,

with simple refectory style long tables and chairs. Food is placed

on the table, family style. One lunch consisted of--a platter of hard salami w. cornichons, french baguette & boxes of camembert cheese [hardly touched], boneless chicken breasts w a creamy sauce and a pan of roasted potatoes [devoured]. Water and coffee are the only beverages served. Staff clusters,eats hurredly and then utilizes some portion of the 30 minutes to catch a smoke or breath of outdoor air. Other entrees served during the week included fish fillets [a white fish,unsauced], a

veal stew, chicken legs, and beef tongue accompanied by a starch such as tabbouleh, a salad composed of egg, ham, potato and tomato, or a potato gratin. I don't recall any green salad, veggies [unless in the composed salad] or desserts. Clean up is done by a dishwasher.

Saturday's dinner looked and smelled v good; it was a quiche w.

ham but I was dining at Boyer that evening and didn't partake of the

staff dinner In fact, I skipped several of these meals, opting to relax in a cafe after I left the restaurant. That doesn't mean that the food was horrible, just not compelling enough to entice me from this format.

Unfortunately, I did not observe the truffle en croute being prepared.

[Would you settle for a description of the Pere Meurice salad???]

Few seemed to be ordering the truffle en croute, small wonder since

this starter was priced at about 108 euros. I always seemed to become aware of it after it was already baking. I think it originated in the far

corner of the kitchen, beyond Dante's inferno [the meat section]. I didn't feel that there was any room/space for an observer over there.

I'd be happy to try to answer other questions regarding the menu

or food prep ..........and will offer my assessment in a few days.

[PaulaJ]

My husband doesn't precisely recall the cost of the program.....

perhaps in the range of $2200. The web site for L'Ecole des

Chefs seems to give a range up to $2600.

Incidentally, does anyone have an address for the corporate

headquarters of Relais and Chateuax...or even more specifically,

this program? I would prefer to write there and cc: my letter to NY

[rozrapp]

PaulaJ,

According to my R&C Guide, the International Head Office is at

15, rue Galvani 75017 Paris. The International President is Regis Bulot.

[cabrales]

On the truffe en croute, I have always wondered why it appears to be available year-round, when black truffles are only in season during a limited period. For members interested in sampling the dish despite the price, note that it is possible to order a 1/2 portion of the dish at 1/2 the price. While one would not receive a whole truffle and the situation would be less than ideal, everything else is the same and the resulting pastry "ball" is more than 1/2 the size of the full.

PaulJ -- There was an excellent salmon appetizer that I remember being very onctuous. I wonder if the sous vide/vaccum packing process was used for that? I'd be interested in hearing about all dishes you can describe, when you have a chance. For example, lobster is a well-prepared dish at Boyer. I wonder whether any special procedures are involved in its preparation. What did you think of Thierry (Boyer's right-hand person in the kitchen) -- it's fairly clear that he will take over when Boyer retires.

When you have a chance, could you describe what "formal" meals in the actual dining room were included in your Ecole des Chefs program? Did you get to sit in the little semi-circular pavillon-like area in the room to the left-hand-most-side of the dining areas, with significant glass windows and encircled by potted flowers? Did you take aperatifs in the very large backside area overlooking expanses of lawn?

[PaulaJ]

I will attempt to describe some of the dishes over the next few days.

The kitchen abounds with foie gras, lobster and langoustines ...and these items appear in various cloaks each day. The quality of everything seemed excellent. The vegetables were so beautfiul that I found myself thinking that they could be photographed for a food publication!

Some replies for now-------

No 'formal' meals were included in the program. However, if you chose to dine at Les Crayeres you did receive a discount on the food. I did

dine there one evening and very much enjoyed my choices [1/2 portion]

of a lobster dish and entree of pigeon. Earlier that day Thierry had inquired what I wished to eat that evening; I had no special requests. I was treated kindly by the waitstaff whom I had been seeing all week.

I think that Thierry Voisin, the chef de cuisine, is an extremely pleasant gentleman who is highly efficient in managing the kitchen/staff. He appeared vigilant yet relaxed and in command without being cranky or irrascible. He has enormous grace under pressure. I admired him very much. I cannot comment on his 'cusine/ cooking' as he was functionning in an adminstrative role.

My husband and I have previously enjoyed aperitifs in the lovely sun porch or greenhouse style room which I think you are describing. While it was available the night I dined there, the weather was lovely and all guests

took aperitifs on the terrace located at the rear side of the chateau and

looking out onto its lush fields.

[Gary Marshall]

I had my first 3 star experience at Boyer late last summer (i was on my way to a cooking course in roanne and by myself so thought i'd treat myself!).

when they asked if i'd like aperitifs on the terrace i expected to see maybe 20 people sat outside, couldn't believe there were acres of land and probably 50+ customers out there, whole generations of families including the babies (and this being france) the little dogs! and the terrace and gardens are absolutely immaculate.

the sun was setting over reims and there was a slight mist, it was truly magical. Can still picture it now!

[Bux]

Was the cooking class at Troisgros? Care to tell us about it--or did I miss a separate thread?

[Gary Marshall]

bux

The course unfortunately was not at troisgros, i'll start a separate thread though!

[cabrales]

[Would you settle for a description of the Pere Meurice salad???]

PaulaJ -- The Pere Meurice salad is described in Serge Dansereau's "Food & Friends. A chef's journey through France & Italy." Like other discussions in the book, the assessment of Boyer is favorable:

"We visited the kitchen with Gerard [boyer]'s chef de cuisine, Kerry [note obviously wrong name] Voisin, and observed the well-honed skiills of the brigade. The simplicity of Guerard's food has distinctd roots in his father's style. He uses a minimum of ingredients prepared with a sure hand, full of talent. The Salade au Pere Maurice, a classic dish of the house, was executed with true expertise in the handling of the foie gras, artichoke and beautiful fresh beans. The presentation and preparation were quite classic, with sauces made of strong reductions, finished with northern butter [this statement is likely accurate]. A love of leek and truffles is evident throughout the menu. Some more exotic dishes are starting to make their mark too, like the beef served with poelee (pan-fried) vegetables or the fillet of bass with coriander and a thyme-flavored lemon confit in a tagine style. In general, however, the food is a classic combination of true and tried dishes of Gerard's repertoire."

[PaulaJ]

Thank you for the update. I,also, would give a favorable assessment

to the Boyer kitchen/cuisine. [it's the Relais & Chateaux program

in this kitchen that fell below acceptable!!---Incidentally, I wrote to

them on June 19th and to date have rec'd no response. ]

The kitchen is well run by Thierry Voisin. The products/produce are

prime. The vegetables--petite pois, spring onions, chanterelles, mousserons, baby carrots w. stems,leeks--were beautiful. Butter

abounded. High end supplies[ foie gras, langoutine, lobsters and

caviar] were used generously. I did see the brigade pan frying cauliflower

and using 'tagine style' veggies with the pigeon breast. However,

"exotic" is not a term that comes to mind; "traditional" fits

just right.

Interestingly, EVERY item in the 'salade' you make reference to, is

weighed. This makes the salad preparation rather time consuming.

The young man whose task it was frequently fell behind the curve,

meriting a scowl from M. Voisin. The salade contains haricot vert, cubes of foie gras, cubes of artichoke hearts, slivered white mushroom cap, julienne of celeriac, truffle [diced or julienned, I forget] and lobster meat. A light vinaigrette is added tableside. I very much enjoyed it on a previous

visit.

[PaulaJ]

Sorry ..........the scowl-ly face belonged next to my comment re:

the L'Ecole des Chefs program. Actually, one face is not sufficient.

I am willing to imagine that the program could run differently in other kitchens....however, as a result of my experience, I consider this very expensive program to be for their PR purposes, not for the consumer.

[cabrales]

PaulaJ -- If you are comfortable doing so, could you consider summarizing the contents of your letter to Ecole des Chefs? Do you have a sense (e.g., from informal discussions with personnel at Boyer) as to how Ecole des Chefs might be sharing the revenue from the program with the applicable restaurant?

[Bouland]

I have experience with tours run by a group called Les Liaisons Délicieuses out of Washington, DC. There trips spend a week at a single Michelin-starred restaurant. In my experience, I've been able to skip some of the siteseeing and instead have spent most of my time in the kitchen. The difference between these trips and those set up by Ecole des Chefs is you have lots of face time with the chef and you eat the same meals as the guests, not the staff. The price is also less than Ecole des Chefs with much more included in it.

If you can't set up a stage on your own (which I've also done) and don't want to pay the prices of Ecole des Chefs, this is a good opportunity. BTW, I've done 1 to 4 week stages for no more expense than a cheap room nearby the restaurant. I've never been charged by the restaurants and I eat with the staff or the chef, depending on the situation.

[PaulaJ]

Bouland--A 'stage' might be more appropriate for you than for me, but I do very much like your idea.

Cabrales--I will summarize my issues. Obviously this is based on my one experience. I would love it if someone else who has participated in this program would share their experiences.

a.The North American [NY] office/liason person operates without a grid

which should include

-which chefs are currently enrolled in the program

-whether they offer a 2 day or 5 day program

-which day their program begins

-whether english is spoken by the chef or in the kitchen [This program is heavily advertized in the USA.]

Errors were made by the prgram director in ALL of this information during various attempts to 'book'. e.g. Dutournier had withdrawn from participation, Meneau offered only the 2 day program, Lameloise's

starting day was incorrect.

b.Worst of all -----I was told that M. Boyer 'spoke english'. Nothing could be farther from the reality. Additionally, during the FIVE day program M. Boyer was present in the kitchen for only 45 minutes during service ONE day !

Each day he did walk through, shake my hand and query "Ca fait bien?." He had not bothered to learn my name!! or even to ask it of his

Chef de Cuisine. You are invited to read the program's web site. It charms you with the glamor and excitement of cooking along side a starred

chef! Obviously, this didn't happen........not for one minute in five days.

The program costs 450-500$ PER day. I have no idea how they

distribute the 'tuition'.

c. Perhaps there are additional problems in the concept for I wonder if any 3 star kitchen is ready to absorb a guest, give them time and let them participate.

My conclusion is that this program is a PR delight for Relais & Chateuax and a participant's rip-off. I find this so egregious that I am considering sending my complaint to NY's Bureau of Consumer Affairs.

[PaulaJ]

Bouland---I have just glanced at the site/program you referenced.

It sounds very interesting! You are correct about the prices/value

as accomodations and meals appear to be included as well as

sightseeing, much of it related to culinary interests. If I ever recover

from my recent go-round, perhaps I'll try, try again.

[Bux]

Paula, your experience confirms my worst fears about a program of this sort. In fact, it really goes well beyond what I might have feared. I don't know if this touches the experience of a diner or guest at a R&C inn, but it certainly isn't good publicity for them to be associated with a program that's so poorly run and misadvertised.

Has your participation in the program had any effect on your thoughts about R&C properties or about visiting Boyer again as a paying guest? Did it leave a negative feeling that went beyond the Ecole des Chefs? I don't know how closely associated the Ecole is to the R&C organization and maybe you covered that in the other thread, but have you made your feelings known to R&C organization?

[PaulaJ]

Bux,

I delayed writing of my experiences at Boyer, choosing to first fax and snail mail both the International President of Relais & Chateaux [which runs

this program!] and the North American/NY liason, Jennifer Iannolo.

After a month of no response, I felt free to respond to Cabrales's

note.

This is only one experience..........but it is a heavily promoted program which failed to deliver what it advertised........and garnered a significant

tuition fee along the way. I believe this reflects only on the program and the corresponding arm of Relais&Chateaux...as well as M. Boyer himself.

Regarding the latter, I have no idea of their agreements with him but

certainly he did not deliver what they promised. I would not recommend the program.

Nonetheless, I would recommend a visit to Boyer, both chateaux and

diningroom as I consider my experience in the program and the

experience of a guest at the inn quite separate.

Additionally, I do not feel that my experience with this program reflects upon all Relais and Chateaux properties, other Relais Gourmands,etc.

This said, I will remain more cautious re: R&C in the future. In part this

is also due to the cancellation charge of 31 euros imposed by H Des

Frenes --described in another thread. Neither the web site for R&C

[which I used in booking] nor the cancellation notice I rec'd from

R&C listed the cancellation fee. Perhaps it is in the 'fine print'

somewhere, but I didn't locate it. Furthermore, R&C didn't respond

to my email re: this fee---which I consider both impolite and unbusinesslike. I consider the fee offensive considering the reservation was cancelled 3 months prior to arrival.

So, I guess I will exercise caution re; R&C but will continue to

book some of their properties and diningrooms.

[Bouland]

If I'm staying at an R&C property I always book directly with the hotel. Often it is possible to get a less expensive room than through R&C because they tend to ignor any inexpensive rooms that the hotel may have. It also makes it easier to reserve a table in advance if the restaurant is very popular.

Your exeperience with Ecole des Chefs is similar to what I've heard from other participants, but they had all particpated in the program before R&C bought it. I was hoping it owuld improve with new ownership.

[Bux]

I missed the thread on les Frenes. I just discussed this with my wife and will try and incorporate her comments as best I can in my post. Her first comment, which may seem self-serving, is that one should use a travel agent and particularly a travel agent who might have some clout in the area. One who does a lot of business with R&C properties is more likely to get a satisfactory response to a letter of complaint and more likely to negotiate a satisfactory conclusion.

Travel is subordinate to food in this board, but it is a part of the name, so I think this is a relevant discussion. Did you place a deposit with the inn, or was the charge placed at the time you cancelled? If you made a deposit and then requested a refund, the inn will be hit by charges from the credit card company at each transaction and is probably intitled to some smaller fee to cover this. If you gave a credit card number as a deposit and were charged when you cancelled three months prior to the scheduled date, I find it rather outrageous. We had a similar situation with a small inn in the Adirondaks and fought the charge with the credit card company. The charge was credited back to our account. There was no notice of a cancellation fee on any of the promotional literature nor on the confirmation material we received. The inn's claim the notice is posted prominently at their front desk seemed invalid.

I also object, in theory although I allow it to happen, when a hotel charges the room to the credit card when the reservation was made, which I supsect was the situation in your case. As much as I object to paying the bill for my stay before I leave for my trip, I realize I have probably also paid for my round trip airfare before I've left.

I suppose it's always caveat emptor for the consumer and nowhere is that greater than in the travel world. Generally speaking, R&C hotels, inns and restaurants are gracious places with gracious managments and I'm a firm believer that places at that range should build into their fees, the ability to treat guests and potential guests graciously and not nickel and dime them. I'm always impressed when an inn places complimentry wine and bottled water in the minibar, and tend to remember things like that more than the price of the room which is no longer an issue after I've settled in.

Earlier you mentioned publicity as a reason for hotels to participate in the chef program and I wonder if it serves their interests if they can't run it correctly. I'm also amazed at often a service or hospitality entity doesn't recognize the value of providing a response to a complaint.

[PaulaJ]

Bux

- re: H des Frenes--

I certainly understand your wife's view point.

And also agree re: the inexplicability and undesirablility of

' no response ' from Relais & Chateaux.

At this point, I don't recall whether the credit card was held in confirmation or whether the room was charged. [several rooms --

all R&C properties --for our upcoming trip to Provence were charged in advance.] Out of curiosity, I will try to locate my credit card statement. Frankly, I had never thought through credit card transaction fees.

None of these statements excuse the lack of notification re: the cancellation fee...........and I also would find its being posted on their

front desk an invalid explanation!

I was alarmed to read Bouland's note re: other participants in the L'Ecole program. Obviously, I do not know any and would have valued that information in advance of booking! Clearly, my experience fell far short of what is advertised. I suspect that since one person journeys there,

it will be quite a while before their failure to deliver is identified.

I have had some very enjoyable stays at R&C properties. Hopefully,

my current negative 'run' has ended.

[cabrales]

b.Worst of all -----I was told that M. Boyer 'spoke english'. Nothing could be farther from the reality.  Additionally, during the FIVE day program  M. Boyer was present in the kitchen for only 45 minutes during service ONE day !

She then suggests that Mr. Boyer has double duty as a owner and chef and probably is only in the kitchen during service.

For the two meals I have taken at Boyer, Boyer was talking with guests a great deal when the latter were taking their aperatifs in the outdoor area facing the expanse of back lawn at Les Crayeres. Also, he toured the dining room for much of the service, sometimes chatting more than 3-5 minutes with each table. It appeared to me that, on those occasions at least (note I began each meal relatively late), Boyer couldn't have been cooking that much and it was likely T Voisin (sic) that was overseeing the service.

Do members have input on Boyer's touring of tables during service? If Boyer tours as much as I think he does, PaulaJ's interactions with him might be even more limited. ???

PaulaJ -- Was Boyer outside of the kitchen, but at Crayeres, touring the tables and talking up the guests, or was it just not in Rheims? I vaguely remember the possibility of an elevator inside the kitchen, leading downwards. Is that correct, and, if so, where does the elevator lead (e.g., to pastry)?

Also, did you receive a souvenir set of chef's whites, an apron, a certificate or some other item from the restaurant?