Michelinias Questions

[robert brown]

Bux or anyone else. Do you have an opinion about Roellinger and Boyer, two places I've never visited? Did you see that a French investor sunk 5,000,000 francs into L'Esperance? ( I picked it up a few weeks ago on the web site of L'Hotelier Magazine, I think it's called).

Robert

[Bux]

I didn't read that about L'Esperance (I assume it's Menau's L'Esperance near Vezelay). We ate there a few years ago just before it lost the thrid star. We were not so impressed at the time, but there were extenuating circumstances. My wife was under the weather and I was still digesting some pig's feet dish I had eaten for lunch the previous day. I will admit that the decor did not make a good first impession either. There was too much chrome and glass for a country inn. The view of Meneau's herb and vegetable garden would have justified the extensive glass had they not hung restaurant quality paintings on the glass walls and blocked the view. Nevertheless, when I say we were not impressed, I couch that in terms of one's exaggerated expectations when dining at a three star place. In fact, three star restaurants suffer greatly from that syndrome. When they are superb, they just meet your expectations. It's unfair.

I have not been to Boyer. I regard it as a flaw in my character. I know I'll be a better person once I've been there.

It's been four years since I've been to Roellinger. At the time I expected it would be getting it's third star anyday. I suspect it may be the service if anything. After refusing an aperatif, I found we were ignored for what seemed like a considerable length of time. in case it's a chronic problem, I would order an aperatif next time. When we started to get service, it was faultless. The meal itself was impressively good. Although the restaurant was highly recommneded, I was told that I might find an excessive use of foreign flavors and spices. I did not find the far ranging seasoning to be excessive. I thought Roellinger had everything under his control and he was the master of whatever he used to create his dishes. We took the tasting menu which began like a Japanese kai seki dinner with bit of things--perhaps a tray consisting of a single mussel, sea snail and maybe a half teaspoon of tartare of fish. Slowly courses increased in size. The final course was the only meat course--two baby lamb chops, naturally raised on the nearby salt marshes. It was a long menu and a real treat. I regret that we've not made it back there. We've had some disappointing meals in Brittany and some wonderful meals as well, but none that quite compared. I also happen to like his hotel very much. Oddly enough his better restaurant is in town and not at his main hotel, but they provide shuttle service back and forth for those quests who do not wish to drive. Anyway, it's a lovely place and decorated with great Breton restraint. Breakfast was copious and memorable. More at WorldTable Brittany July '97 Les Maisons de Bricourt.

[robert brown]

Funny, we had the same feeling about L'Esperance as you did. We went soon after he got his third star, so that must have been 1970-something. His wife was kind of robotic, and she sat everyone in a waiting room, just like  you there to have your teeth cleaned. We also found being in the dining room cold and formal. We never have returned since the food was a notch below that of the chefs we liked the most. I don't remember paintings, but to see good art in restaurants, I guess you have to go to La Colombe d'Or in St. Paul- de- Vence or the Cafe Kronenhalle in Zurich. We could start a new thread of good art in restaurants! Oh yes, Maximin is/was friends with some of the School of Nice fellows, Arman, Cesar,etc, so you see decent paintings, drawings, and sculpture there. Of course Arman's stuff is all over the place; i.e. the restaurant universe, since he trades it for meals. Can you think of other places with good art besides Gigi's Trattoria? (That wasn't so good art-wise either!!)

[Bux]

Speaking of art in restaurants, have you seen Dinner Rush, the movie? It was mentioned in a post in the NY board. I recommend the film, but it should be of special interest to those who follow the restaurant or art worlds of NY.

[robert brown]

Bux. I made a subtle reference to Dinnerrush; the restaurant in the film was called Gigi's Trattoria, but you would have had to look hard. What about the Four Seasons here in New York. Doesn't it have Picasso or Le Corbusier tapestries? I haven't been there in almost 20 years. I always had the notion that Boyer was in the second tier of the three-star guys, so maybe we shouldn't feel bad we haven't been there. L'Ambroisie has always gotten away from me. What is it like? All I've heard is how expensive it can be.

[Bux]

Gigi's Trattoria went over my head. Actually I thought the restaurant was Giginos or some sort of dinimutive. Maybe it was Gigi's and affectionately referred to by a pet name. I believe the restaurant exists, but I haven't been there. Anyway those were movie paintings.

The Four Seasons had tapestries, but in my opinion those were culture not art. It was already second generation stuff. The ideas of established art reproduced as tapestries. Most restaurant have bad art, but lots of restaurants have inoffensive genre art, particularly art related to food including still life painting of food. Leon de Lyon has tons of paintings of cooks and it's quite pleasant as background.

I suppose Boyer is not one of the hottest chefs in France, but I think both he and his restaurant are very well respected. Les Crayères is a 19 in GaultMillau. I suppose one of the things that hasn't put it high on my list is that it's part of an inn where the rooms are expensive. I'm far more apt to spring for a outrageously expensive meal than for a more than a moderately priced room. Inns where the rooms are less expensive than the prix fixe meal appeal to me.

I don't recall the price at L'Ambroisie, but it was certainly not a budget meal. I seem to recall not finding anything in the way of unknown or country wine buys on the wine list.  The food at L'Ambroisie was rather sublime, although some of what we had was very simple -- a lobe of sweetbread studded with truffles and garnished with a single vegetable for instance. A loin of lamb wrapped in phyllo pastry and rolled in truffles seemed a bit like a gilded lily, but my wife said it was wonderful. A dish of langoustines with spinach and curry sauce may sound tame, even considering the thin wafers (sesame?) that almost floated above the plate, but it was one of the most ethereal dishes I've had. We were a bit put off by what I felt was a funereal atmosphere. Everyone in the two dining rooms seemed so hushed and serious and unfortunately almost all were speaking English or Japanese that afternoon.

[David Russell]

Haven't been to Roellinger, but I have been to Boyer, and frankly, I would recommend it more as a place to while away an indolent weekend while cosseted in luxury than as a place to sample three-star cooking, since I found the food to be more workmanlike and serviceable than sublime. The Boyers themselves were absent the night we dined there, which may have something to do with the lack of fireworks, but I always thought that at this level (and at these prices, which, fortunately, didn't trouble us in this instance, as we were guests of Veuve Clicquot) the chef's absence should go unnoticed.

And the wine list was surprisingly unimaginative for [my idea idea of] a three-star list. The Champagne list, however, IS up to snuff, and there's something to be said for reclining on a chaise longue out back and having Champagne served you from a silver cart stuffed to bursting with really excellent bottles, all seemingly available by the glass.

[Bux]

Okay, I'm not going there on my next trip. I suspect it was not all that long ago that three star restaurants were not expected to offer fireworks, just some sort of luxury and perfection. Nowadays most serious food travelers (got a better term?) look for some creativity or at least a stamp of individuality. Nevertheless, I wonder if the staid and workmanlike places don't do the best business. Not all those who pay that price are ready for fireworks.

Am I mistaken or does Veuve Clicquot have some interest in Les Crayères? In either case it makes an excellent place for them to entertain and food that is more noticeable might well distract from the champagne. I assume Boyer's wine list goes well beyond Veuve Clicquot's brand champagne and that for most visitors it might just seem appropriate to drink champagne while in Reims, even if that's not one's custom elsewhere.

This could lead to a discussion about drinking local wines or whether those in the wine trade ever get much of an opportunity to dine in the great restaurants that are not in Paris or in the midst of a wine region. Roellinger is but one example. A related question might be about why Bordeaux was never a hot bed of great restaurants.

[robert brown]

Robert, I suspect that the aristocratic, big-business chateau owners in Bordeaux get to eat all over the place. The other guys probably not since they are mostly the heart and soul winemakers of Burgundy, the Languedoc,etc.

The more interesting question is why the dearth of great restaurants in Bordeaux. I can only think of possible reasons such as the huge acreage of vineyard sites, the more lucrative return from cultivating grapes rather than other products, and the lack of diversity in what people raise and grow in the region. I wonder why there is not more of a seafood culture there, for example given its proximity to the Atlantic Ocean. I can only recall all the duck dishes I saw, although I have to admit I have been to Biarritz more than Bordeaux. We also often would not get any further west than Michel Guerard's either. In an off-the-wall, abstract way, I wonder if all that Cabernet Sauvignon, Franc and Merlot, affect the cuisine; i.e. the  ingredients scene in Burgundy is much more diverse, probably because red and white Burgundies are the most versatile wines with food? Then there's always the climate factor. When I get back home I'll check one of the greatest reference books about French gastronomy, the Guide Gourmand de la France that Gault and Millau did before they started their guides and magazine. (I'll explain it later, as it is a must-have if you can find it.

Robert

(Edited by robert brown at 1:49 pm on Oct. 3, 2001)

[Bux]

Biarritz is a cosmopolitan outpost, but already in the Basque Coast and well away from Bordeaux. Between the two cities is Les Landes an area I associate with Gascony and the Dordogne, if only for the foie gras. It is somewhat like a western extension of Gascony. Bordeaux seems coastal although it's about fifty miles from the ocean. Maybe it's the width of the Garonne River that make it seem so close to the ocean.

It's been said that Bordeaux traditionally hasn't been a city that's hosted three star restaurants largely because the money in the area doesn't like to eat out and prefers to entertain at home with private chefs. I'm sure it's a far more complex issue, but there's some truth in that I suspect. One thinks of Burgundians as jovial fellows with ruddy complexions and blue overalls drinking at local bar when not in the fields. The Bordelais, on the other hand, especially the chateau owners, conjure up an image of a reserved stiff upper lip above a white collar and tie.

Just outside of Bordeaux, we've really enjoyed a few meals at Amat's St. James in Bouliac. Admittedly, it was Jean Nouvel's architecture as much as the food, that drew us there the first time although we only went for lunch while staying in Bordeaux. Whe wwe returned on a later visit, it was to afford us the opportunity of staying in one of the rooms as much as eating there again. Nevertheless, the food was excellent although the first meal, where I ordered the specialties was the more stunning, I thought the rating of only one star was a severe injustice. His bistro on the same premises is also worth a meal if you favor simple good cooking over service and comfort.

[robert brown]

We ate Amat's cooking when he was in Bordeaux city. I remember he had a menu in which every dish was red. But we haven't been to the new place. Is La Reserve in Graves still there? The duck hearts were terrific. I think I had them two days in a row. Have you ever seen duck heart in USA anyone?

(Edited by robert brown at 11:38 pm on Oct. 3, 2001)

[Bux]

I thought I've bought duck hearts in Chinatown, but my wife says I've only brought home chicken hearts. I'll have to check the next time I'm down there.

[Bux]

I've checked a few usual sources in Chinatown and have not found duck hearts for sale. Chicken hearts and pig (or pork) hearts are both easily found.

[cabrales]

Roellinger. At the time I expected it would be getting it's third star anyday. . . . When we started to get service, it was faultless. The meal itself was impressively good. Although the restaurant was highly recommneded, I was told that I might find an excessive use of foreign flavors and spices. I did not find the far ranging seasoning to be excessive.

I am already looking forward to this weekend's meals at Roellinger, which I have never visited, at Cancale. I think Maison de Brincourt might be a place for which there is some hope of an "art"-type experience (in the "Chef of the Century" sense) . . . .

Any additional input from members would be appreciated, particularly on the choice between Brittany lobster vs. langouste (if the latter is available) at Roellinger. .  

The place is rather difficult to book, esp. the rooms, which were all occupied when I called several weeks ago (even the ones in the building that is not opposite the main restaurant). Although I have to date secured only one reservation at the main restaurant and one at the bistro "Coquillages", I am going to be in town on standby for another meal at the main restaurant, absent which I would have to console myself at the local oyster shacks (if any)  :confused:

[Steve Klc]

Cabrales--I've never visited either, but "Le livre d' Olivier Roellinger" caused a bit of a stir among the French-watchers here in the US when it was published in 1994--setting a new standard for chef's books--not the least of which was because of Roellinger's extensive use of exotic and Asian spices all lovingly revealed in lush photos--little setpieces shot from above (to become the preferred style of certain glossy American food magazines, albeit presented less atmospherically.)

The sticker is still on the jacket--I paid $118 US back then from Kitchen Arts & Letters.  It just might be the most elegant chef book yet produced.

Tempting from the book is a complex lobster salad with ginger, galangal,vanilla bean, cinnamon, mace, nutmeg, brown sugar, lime, lemongrass, tamarind, dried fruits like fig and date--and a few things I'm unsure of the translation--like graines rouges de rocou--used at different stages in the preparation.

He has another tempting lobster dish with a kind of piquant chutney of tropical fruit and spice (apple, pear, banana, red peppercorn, cumin, ginger).

The langoustine dish in the book employs an interesting blend of sesame seed, almonds, fenugreek, cardamom, coriander, "graines de courge" in a complex bouillon.

It might be a bit off your topic--but the Mussel and curry veloute looks so simple and good--he even spells out by weight his "curry" spice mix.  Roellinger blends a sweet Coteaux du Layou wine in with the cream and curry.

[cabrales]

Roellinger's extensive use of exotic and Asian spices all lovingly revealed in lush photos . . . . the Mussel and curry veloute looks so simple and good--he even spells out by weight his "curry" spice mix.

Steve Klc -- Thanks for your input.   Based on it and Bux's mention of spicing, I'll pay particular attention to the spices and report my impressions.  And, yes, if there is a curry based appetizer, I'd probably order it in view of recent board dialogue.  If the curry element is in an entree, I may pass, as I am not particularly fond of curry

[Steve Klc]

I edited my post since you replied--did you catch the mention of the wine added to the curry veloute?  I'd bet if a similar mussel dish is on the menu as an entree--and you referenced the dish from his book--you would be provided a small portion.

[Bux]

Cabrales, I thought le Château Richeux, the building that was not in town, was the preferable one. I could be wrong, but it's the latest one to be added to the Roellinger properties. It was the one in which we stayed. Les Rimains is in town, but I didn't think it is right across from his gastronomic restaurant (Maisons de Bricourt). It's a bit confusing. The less formal restaurant (Coquillage) is in le Richeux. There is a navette actually a mini van, to shuttle clients from le Richeux to dinner at Bricourt and back.

As we had been advised by our daughter, we choose the extensive tasting menu of about ten or so dishes beginning with courses that are no more than amuses bouches. Things may have changed by now. Looking at some notes from our dinner almost ten years ago, I don't feel they captured the excitement of the meal. Our daughter thought I might be put off by the use of spices as I was not, and still am not, a great fan of what's foisted on us as "fusion" cooking. On the contrary, the food was thoroughly convincing. Roellinger's cooking is Roellinger's cooking the way Kunz' food is his and neither of them strike me as "fusion" precisely because I am unaware of a frission between the seasonings.

"Curry" is probably a meaningless term in western cuisine. It is just a blend of powdered spices. I have an "abstract" of the carte at Bricourt from 1997 and nowhere does the term "curry" appear in the description of dishes. There is a veal with cumin et chutney d'autrefois and descriptions such as lamb with épices douces "grande caraane," John Dory retour des Indes, (unspecified as to east or West Indies) and a petite homard aux saveurs de "l'île aux épices."

In using a wide variety of spices he feels he is upholding the old tradition of Brittany and the neighboring port of St. Malo, home of the la Compagnie des Indes which traded in spices from the East Indies, Africa and the New World. That rational may be less important than the fact that he has great command of his spices and uses them so effectively.

I was impressed and rather regret every two star meal we've had since in Brittany as it did not compare with the one we had at Roellinger's. I am eager to hear how you find it this weekend. By the way, the breakfast at Richeux was excellent.

[cabrales]

Cabrales, I thought le Château Richeux, the building that was not in town, was the preferable one. I could be wrong, but it's the latest one to be added to the Roellinger properties. It was the one in which we stayed. Les Rimains is in town, but I didn't think it is right across from his gastronomic restaurant (Maisons de Bricourt). It's a bit confusing.

Bux -- Ah, I should clarify my preference for rooms associated with restaurants    It appears Roellinger has at several properties, but, for me, the "best" one would be the one closest the gastronomic restaurant.  I didn't know there was a navette bus; had there not been one, it would have easier to return to my room close by after the excesses of dinner. All rooms affiliated with Roellinger are booked; perhaps somebody will cancel at the last minute. I have, however, secured a second reservation at the gastronomic restaurant (Saturday lunch) that would not conflict with my visit to Coquillages. The John Dory or lobster with spices sounds quite promising -- I am really looking forward to this now.  

[Bux]

easier to return to my room close by after the excesses of dinner.

This is worthy of a thread of it's own. There are few things I like more than a short walk in the fresh air after dinner and few things I like less than getting into a car after a long dinner. If I do have to get into a car, I just hope I don't have to drive it and that the driver has had less to drink than I have.

Given the way that Roellinger has acquired property in Cancale and the quality of his meals, I find his shuttle service an excellent compromise. I assume it's still being offered. I understood that at one time they used a vintage automobile, but that has given way to a less romantic minivan.

[Steve Klc]

Bux--the "petite homard aux saveurs de "l'île aux épices" is a dish I described and is on pp.90-91 of the book.  Interesting that the dish is still on the menu in 1997, don't you think?

The John Dory "retour des Indes" is on pp. 104-105 and is perhaps spiced with the most complex mixture of the book.

The lamb with épices douces "grande caravane" is complex--and in the book is served with quenelles of a cucumber ice, pp. 170-171.

The veal dish is more complex than I realized--close examination of the book reveals a gelee infused with sage and hyssop--and the chutney of apple, pear and pineapple with cumin, but also ginger.  I'm drooling thinking about these and envying cabrales even more than usual.

Roellinger employs the term "curry" solely with the mussel dish spice mixture on pp. 148-149.

[cabrales]

easier to return to my room close by after the excesses of dinner.

This is worthy of a thread of it's own. There are few things I like more than a short walk in the fresh air after dinner and few things I like less than getting into a car after a long dinner. If I do have to get into a car, I just hope I don't have to drive it and that the driver has had less to drink than I have..

Bux -- I agree this is an interesting question. Even if there were many diners, one would have to sacrifice with respect to wine to drive. I have rarely made that sacrifice in connection with a meal about which I care. An interesting related question is how diners allocate driving after a dinner on the West Coast or outside of NYC or of other areas where cabs are plentiful.

I thought about the distance issue recently in connection with L'Esperance. The mill (or Moulin) offered nice rooms, in which we stayed, but the cost was a very quick drive to the main house with the restaurant. While the entryway to the Moulin area was almost across the street from L'Esperance, the Moulin was situated further "in" and would have been an easy 3-4 minute walk. It was Christmas Eve, and the ground was snow-clad; I was cold and had 3" heels on. I declined the walk. On a separate note, we missed the famous Vezelay midnight mass, unfortunately.

Ducasse's "farmhouse" Bastide de Moustiers at Moustiers St-Marie is another facility where one can choose closer or further rooms. The Olive Room is beautiful, but it is also close to the entryway to the entire compound, instead of up a tiny hill where the restaurant (not that good, in my book) is. The walk is short -- arguably 2-3 minutes, and it was summertime. So I chose the room that was further away. Same for La Celle.

For women diners, having rooms close to a restaurant area is useful. A walk in high heels is not particularly appealing after one has had 1-1 1/2 bottles of wine per person, champagne, digestif items, etc. Also, there might be personal security issues, depending on the size of one's dining party. It's really outdoor walks that matter, not an indoor walk within a linked set of buildings (like one might find at Georges Blanc).  

[Steve Plotnicki]

Over the years (let's say the last 15) I have been to Boyer on 3 different occassions. Once I drove for lunch from Paris, and twice I've stayed in the Chateau. I think it's fine and you can have a very good meal there but David Russell's observations about it are spot on. The chateau that houses the restaurant and the hotel is quite grand. It sits on something like a 15 hectare park. The rooms, at least when I stayed there were very opulent and felt like you were staying in a silk glove. Even the breakfasts were fantastic. It's a place I wouldn't mind returning to, it's just that if I was interested in a cutting edge goumet meal, that wouldn't be my first choice.

[Fat Guy]

I agree 100%. It's a fabulous place to experience the classical ideal of a Michelin three-star restaurant, and if you're in the mood for that you'll be thrilled.

On the Roellinger front, I think he's brilliant. It's the restaurant in France I most want to go back to, even though I wouldn't necessarily say it's the best I've visited. I strongly suggest a tasting menu. I mean, he does a beautiful lobster, sure, they wheel it out live to the table on a white-linen-covered gueridon and it tries to kill you and then they kill it and serve it up on a lot of different plates. But that's just not the best way to really let the kitchen bust out and wow you. If there's a mostly seafood tasting culminating in duck, that's the one you want to grab.

Roellinger's kind of cooking, like Gagnaire's or Kunz's, is best enjoyed in small portions.

[Bux]

If there's a mostly seafood tasting culminating in duck, that's the one you want to grab.

I wouldn't complain if it ended in a couple of chops from baby lamb that grazed in sight of Mont St. Michel, but I suspect it will be all fish until the final course. Shaw's suggestion of the tasting menu is telling, because he's less likely to go for a tasting menu on a first visit than I am.