Wine Service (On premise)Customers wine

[Ted Task]

FYI, when the pols and their hangerson leave Washington DC for the weekend (read, all the time) the downtown restaurants are often more than happy to see us come in from the 'burbs.

The Caucus Room (locally owned, with a super young Chef) offers the opportunity to bring your own wines with NO corkage charge. Last night we were three couples,two of the parents generation, one of the next. We brought some serious wines and here (finally) I'll get to the question.

The next generation had no problem allowing the waiter to handle the white wines, but when it came to the reds..he was insistant upon opening and decanting them himself. BOTH his father and I said that he was wrong in not letting the waiter handle the job, we felt that he was demeaning the waiters abilities, and that afterall

it was his job. (Any slight was very generously covered by our tips).........BUT, I'd like fellow Gulletiers opinions. I will share your voices with my young friend.

Ted Task

[Craig Camp]

Frankly I would guess if the waiter was well-tipped, he/she could probably care less who pours the wine. If you pay enough you can probably cook as well. Handling your own wines in a BYO situation is not unusual and is common for wine geeks/groups bringing their carefully cellared bottles from home.

It's not the same as the taking the bottle from the sommelier who has just retrieved his selection from the restaurants cellar.

[Rebel Rose]

I'm afraid I agree with Craig. There's a certain proprietary pleasure in opening and decanting your own wine. It's not at all uncommon for the owner of a bottle to want to have the honor of opening and decanting it, although serving is generally done by the waiter.

[Carolyn Tillie]

I'm with Craig and DC on this as well -- heck, Shawn and I occasionally dine with wine geeks that BRING THEIR OWN GLASSES. When I first started into wine geekdom and brought my own bottles, I can't tell you how often I saw young, green waiters break corks or (worse yet), use an A-So and PUSH the cork into the bottle!

If I am new to an establishment and I don't know the calibre of their staff, I open it myself.

Funny, during my birthday weekend, I brought a great, old bottle to Bistro Don Giovanni in Napa (a place that SHOULD know how to serve wine). I let the waiter open the bottle but the first thing he did was start GLUGGING the wine into the my glass (instead of the small pour to assure it wasn't corked). When I saw it, I immediately started yelling at him, "wait, Wait, WAIT!" My family stared at me as though I were nuts when I had to explain to them and the waiter that I wanted to taste it first! The waiter even told us that he assumed because we brought the wine, we knew it was okay. I had to explain to HIM, "How would I know it is okay? It could be corked, right?" Duh.

And yes, I HAVE brought in corked wines to restaurants before, so small tastes ARE important!

[adegiulio]

And yes, I HAVE brought in corked wines to restaurants before, so small tastes ARE important!

Why is a small pour important? If the bottle is corked, there's no difference between a small pour and a big pour...its all getting dumped. Often when I am at a restaurant, I just tell the waiter to forget all the "pour a small taste, let the guy smell and taste and proclaim it ok, then pour for the table" BS, and just pour it. If it is corked or something is wrong, you have just as much of a chance of them replacing the bottle as you would if there was just a small tasting pour. I agree that a small TASTE would be important, as compared to a large gulp, but screw it, let the waiter pour away. I have never been served a corked bottle from a restaurant, though I have opened a few at home and brought a few to dinner (there was one at the last eGullet dinner, Curlz do you remember which one?) While I don't relish that wet cardboard aroma of a corked wine, being exposed to it doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the next, uncorked, wine. The only instance that I would want the waiter to be a little more gentle with the wine is if there is a chance of heavy sediment in the bottle. Lets be gentle here and not stir that into the rest of the bottle.

To address the original question, I can see the issue both ways. As the owner and caretaker of a special bottle, I would like to open and decant the wine. However, I can certainly see how the server might be offended. Unless I knew the server well, I wouldn't trust him to care for the wine the way I would. In some places I might be correct with that judgement, in others I would be wrong, you just can't tell. If I have a precious bottle, I would rather not take the chance. Let me say that, if I were an offended server, an additional tip wouldn't make me feel better (though I would enjoy it for other reasons). My serving abilities were called into question, and no additional gratuity would change that. So, for this one, I will sit fimly on the fence. Both sides are right!

[Brad Ballinger]

As someome who has brought in more bottles to restaurants than I could even come close to counting, I can offer an unequivocal "it depends" answer.

If it's just the missus and I, and I'm only bringing in one or two bottles, I will let the server do his/her thing -- IF I believe that they can deal with an older bottle in terms of the delicacy of the cork and the decanting (if it is an older bottle I'm bringing that needs to be decanted). If I don't have the trust, I will usually have decanted the bottle at home ahead of time, double decanted back into the bottle, and then appear at the restaurant. I suppose a skeptic could always think I poured Charles Shaw Merlot into that bottle of 85 Margaux, but I'd rather decant my own if I don't think the restaurant staff know how to do it.

If I'm with a group of people where there will be a number of bottles appearing, sometimes it is not possible for the wait staff to keep on top of opening all the bottles. If we have the staff open, we may just ask them to open all at once, but we'll handle the pouring, or we will just do the opening and pouring and leave them to serving the food. I've experienced some servers really wanting to be part of the wine service. I don't know if they are thinking of getting a higher tip or not. But if I can bring my own, and not be charged corkage, I'm going to tip 33% anyway. So all it takes is once for them to know that their tip is not in jeopardy.

Just last week in Davenport, Iowa, of all places. Four of us brought some older California Cabernet and let the staff serve them. When the server busted the cork on a 1988 Heitz Martha's, I quickly pulled out my corkscrew and opened the 1990 Flora Springs Reserve I had brought. The other two left things up to the server. The restaurant did have a decanting funnel, so we let them decant.

As far as the corked issue goes, I can see this as a reason for opening your own. Like Carolyn, I have brought bottles that have been corked. I would prefer to quietly remove it from the table rather than get into the tired "I don't think it is corked," or "I think it might blow off" debate, which inevitable happens. For some reason unknown to me, nothing attracts more interest from wine geeks than when one person proclaims a bottle to be corked. Not even a full second goes by before someone comments "Let me smell it." I'm convince we really don't trust each other.

[winesonoma]

And yes, I HAVE brought in corked wines to restaurants before, so small tastes ARE important!

Why is a small pour important? If the bottle is corked, there's no difference between a small pour and a big pour...its all getting dumped.

Where I live it's getting returned and replaced. Maybe not the exact same vintage but something close.

[Curlz]

(there was one at the last eGullet dinner, Curlz do you remember which one?)

It's not enough that I'm the wine scribe...you expect me to remember which one of 16 bottles was corked too? Heehee Honestly, Ant, I don't remember--but I'm guessing it was either one that I didn't taste that night (yes, there were a few), or one that I didn't care for! My dad taught me to drink what I LIKE.

As for the question on the table, I have to say that I only know a few legit wine geeks, but I've never seen one insist on opening his/her own bottle at a BYO establishment. At someone else's house, DEFINITELY (hello, Dad!) but interestingly enough, not in a restaurant. I do find the question fascinating--hopefully more of the 'geeks' will weigh in.

Curlz

[KatieLoeb]

Geez - this is tough. I don't know if I'd bring a bottle that needed decanting to a BYOB in the first place. That sort of ceremony best takes place at home I think. Or in a restaurant with a wine list that's worthy of "decantable" bottles and has the staff and appropriate glassware to back it up. JMO.

Then again, I don't have a cellar full of bottles that would require decanting. There's probably only 3 or 4 bottles in my small collection that would be worthy. And when the time comes, it's likely that I'll do it myself.

[Carolyn Tillie]

And yes, I HAVE brought in corked wines to restaurants before, so small tastes ARE important!

Why is a small pour important? If the bottle is corked, there's no difference between a small pour and a big pour...its all getting dumped.

Where I live it's getting returned and replaced. Maybe not the exact same vintage but something close.

Very true. Do not dump a bad bottle -- a reputable dealer should replace it and it is much easier to return a bottle that isn't half empty if it is bad.

Also, Adegiulio, if I get an jerk for a waiter who doesn't know about proportion in a glass, than I have a glass that is too full to significantly swirl -- for that, I want a small pour so I can *force* the tatse open to see how the tastes are going to develop after the bottle has been open for a while. It is much hard to give a heft swirl to a full glass.