Hot Dogs in Philly

[John]

What brand of hot dogs did they supply to the boardwalk joints? My guess would be Dietz and Watson. A lot of places down the shore use Grote & Weigel Boardwalk Griddle Franks.

[marinade]

John, I can tell you for a fact that the hot dogs we were running were not Dietz & Watson but more like Smith & Wesson. I was driving for this outfit (Allied Steaks) in the mid-seventies and our routes were from Asbury Park down to Wildwood and points in between (on the way down we drop loads at South Jersey Kressge 5&10’s, yeah the lunch counter food was their stuff). Yes we sold steaks to White House in AC. My best friend got me the gig. We had this deal going where if one guy got a job, he would get the other the guy in. Anyway, about the hot dogs. They sold two types: All meat (which could be anything) and all beef (which was anything cow-like). They came in 5-lb boxes either 8 or 10 to pound. One day they sent me into South Philly to pick-up a load of these things and it was at a non-descript meatpacking joint adjacent to a slaughterhouse. This place was like the third circle of Dante’s inferno. They had a bunch of squat Italian guys with bloody aprons and meat hooks. They were wide as they were tall (or was it the other way around?). They would blare hard rock and Frankie Vali over the intercom with the animals squealing and moaning in the background. Reminded me of Ozzfest. When I got there to pick up the dogs, I asked one of those guys: “What’s in ‘em?” “You really want to know?” He walked me over to a cardboard barrel flipped the lid and said, “Check this out!” Swear to god I never seen anything that reeked with such high weirdness in my life. It was ¾ full of beef lips! No teeth, no tongue, just disconnected smiles of moos gone by. A couple of more guys came over in splattered smocks and reached in and grabbed a bunch of lips and did these perverse Senior Wences’ imitations. Meat madness! Then they told me of a time where a couple of start-up wise guys made off with what they thought was a couple of barrels of USDA prime. Cops caught up to them in a dinner parking lot and they inspected the evidence it turns out they had heisted two barrels of beef sphincters. The cops were in tears. And by the way, that caper worked into their mob nicknames. There is quote about politics and sausage making. “You don’t want to know what goes into it”.

Edited July 16, 2004 by marinade (log)

[John]

Wow! That's something. No way was it Dietz and Watson. I know that today, any franks containing lips, sphinters, kidneys, etc. must be labeled variety meats. If you do not see this designation, you can be sure that you're not getting the undesirable parts of the animal.

[marinade]

Wow! That's something. No way was it Dietz and Watson. I know that today, any franks containing lips, sphinters, kidneys, etc. must be labeled variety meats. If you do not see this designation, you can be sure that you're not getting the undesirable parts of the animal.

And missing all the fun!

[Andrew Fenton]

John, I can tell you for a fact that the hot dogs we were running were not Dietz & Watson but more like Smith & Wesson...

That is one hell of a story. (But then, if there's a bad beef sphincter story, I haven't heard it.)

Fabulous.

[howard88]

In todays Star Ledger an article on Warren county NJ wieners (just over the border from Easton,PA) mentions holyeats.com and a frequent contributer on the subject to egullet, "John" the hot dog guru. The article features information on Hot Dog Johnny's in Buttzville, and two other Warren county hot doggeries, Jimmy's on the Delaware and Toby's Cup in Lopatcong.

[tommy]

link.

nice job guys.

[cinghiale]

Congrats to Holly and John.

But John "Hot Dog John" Fox? Even "guru" understates the man's acumen.

John "Font of Knowledge of All Things Dog" Fox.

Minister of Dog-ma John Fox.

John Fox: When He Talks Wurst, Others Listen.

Also, John "Not of Ultravox" Fox.

[John]

My son just calls me a weenie. I was contacted by the reporter for this story on Holly's recommendation. He (the reporter) covers Warren County which is in West Jersey. They don't have many restaurants at all, even fast food places like McDonald's. In fact, the most popular restaurant is Hot Dog Johnny's. Originally, the story was going to be on their 60th anniversary. But with the reincarnation of Jim's (now called Jimmy's on the Delaware) and the popularity of hot dog joints in contrast to other types of food, he decided to do an article about hot dogs in West Jersey.

We spoke at length about all Jersey hot dogs. Restaurants, brands used, cooking methods, popularity as far as who sells the most dogs, etc. The reporter asked me if I agreed that Hot Dog Johnny's was Jersey's most popular hot dog. I told him no, not even close. Rutt's Hut, Hot Grill, Galloping Hill Inn, and Texas Weiner ll in Green Brook sell more dogs. And there may be others. Remember, he was focusing on West Jersey hot dog joints and their popularity to the exclusion of the rest of the state. He mentioned that West Jersey has a lot less people then North East Jersey, therefore they might have a higher hot dog stand to people ratio, or something to that effect. I said that it could be true, hence his statement that I said rural Warren might have the most impressive array of hot dog stands, per capita, in New Jersey.

West Jersey does have a cluster of hot dog places in the Philipsburg-Lopatcong-Alppha area. But they have nowhere near the number and variety of hot dog places that North East Jersey does. I had to be honest about my opinions, and I told him that West Jersey dogs are much less flavorful than elsewhere. Not bad, but nothing that really compares to the better hot dog places in the rest of the state. I picked Toby's Cup as one of my favorites in the Times article because it is somewhat unique and uses a better quality dog (Berk's from Pa.) than the other places reviewed which use a very ordinary Kunzler frank (also from Pa.) Toby's has the onions, pickles, and mustard in the West Jersey-Pa. style, but deep fries the dog. All in all I'd say this dog is the best in West Jersey. Only 80 cents. Sort of a poor mans Rutt's Hut.

I couldn't say anything good about Hot Dog Johnny's because it is one of the few places that I went to that I really didn't like. A very bland pork based dog that is steamed or boiled. I've had this dog grilled, and it's ok, but at Johnny's it's just not good. I didn't even finish mine. I gave it to my dog and even he wouldn't eat it. But the place is real popular out there and even among some people I know and work with. A lot of it is the atmosphere and setting along the Pequest River. I totally discount these factors when judging a dog.

Charlies Pool Room in Alpha is a Weird, N.J. type of place, but they use the ordinary Kunzler dog. They fry it in an actual frying pan and have a secret recipe Hungarian sauce that is pretty good. I wrote a letter describing this place that is in the current Weird, N.J. Most of the places out west steam their franks or use the roller grill. Beef franks are almost non existent. Eddie's in Philipsburg is the only place I know of that has them.

The bottom line is that while hot dogs are very popular in West Jersey, they are very ordinary and do not compare to what the rest of the state offers. I'll try and convince the reporter to try some of the better places next time.

[Rich Pawlak]

Congrats to Holly and John.

But John "Hot Dog John" Fox? Even "guru" understates the man's acumen.

John "Font of Knowledge of All Things Dog" Fox.

Minister of Dog-ma John Fox.

John Fox: When He Talks Wurst, Others Listen.

Also, John "Not of Ultravox" Fox.

He's probably an INVETERATE hot dog guru at that!

[Andrew Fenton]

You know, one of these days I'm going to have to do a massive Jersey Dog Hunt: see how many hot dog places I can hit in one glorious day.

Gotta get a car first, but a boy has to have a dream, right?

Edited July 23, 2004 by Andrew Fenton (log)

[mrbigjas]

I'm sorry to hear that about Hot Dog Johnny's. I haven't been there in probably nearly 20 years, since I was in late junior high or early high school, and we used to drive up from Levittown to hike the gap. We would always stop at Hot Dog Johnny's.

Looking back on it, maybe it's significant that I remember the root beer on tap and the town's name more than the hot dogs.

[rlibkind]

You know, one of these days I'm going to have to do a massive Jersey Dog Hunt: see how many hot dog places I can hit in one glorious day. 

Gotta get a car first, but a boy has to have a dream, right?

You set up the challenge, Andrew. Here's the solution.

If you are really dedicated, it's possible to use public transport from Philadelpia to get a good taste of Jersey Dogs. Be warned: you've got to have the stamina for both the transportation and the dogs!

I've worked it out (I have much too much time on my hands). I've assumed the trip would be on a Saturday. If it's a weekday, the transportation options would be better, and you'd get back home an hour earlier. Consult www.njtransit.com to make your own schedule.

Keep in mind, schedules are subject to change and both trains and buses can run late! Also, neither Septa nor NJ Transit will wait for the connection at Trenton, so if one train is late, go get a tomato pie. Just call Rich.

I also strongly advise you check the hours for each of the establishments. Syd's, if I recall correctly, may be closed on Saturdays in the summer. I also seem to recall that they may shut down entirely for a week or two as vacation.

8.09a - Lv 30th St. Station, Septa R7

8.55a - Ar Trenton

9.11a - Lv Trenton, NJ Transit Northeast Corridor (NEC) Line

10.03a - Ar Elizabeth

From the Elizabeth station, you can either walk or take a cab to Tommy's Italian Sausage and Jerry's, which are located on S. Second Avenue where it branches off from Elizabeth Avenue near South Street. It's about a 12 block walk from the train station through beautiful downtown Elizabeth.

12.03p - Lv Elizabeth, NJ Transit eastbound platform

12.12p - Ar Penn Station Newark (DO NOT get off at the Newark Airport station). At Penn Station, go downstairs to bus depot.

12.30p - Board Bus #70 bus westbound (exact fare)

1.10p - Exit bus at Millburn Avenue near Vauxhall Road.

Walk east on Vauxhall Road about two blocks to Millburn Mall, where you will find Syd's. When finished, you'll be taking a different subroute of the #70 bus, so instead of walking back to Millburn Avenue, when you leave Syd's turn left out of the mall onto Vauxhall Road and walk about 5 blocks east to Springfield Avenue.

2.36p - Board #70 bus eastbound at Vauxhall & Springfield Avenue.(Exact change)

3.09p - Arrive Penn Station, Newark. Find entrance to City Subway, but you've got plenty of time (the City Subway, which you'll be boarding next, runs every 10 minutes) so explore Penn Station; it actually has a fairly interesting archtectural design, especially the main waiting room and the main exterior facade.

3.53p- Board City Subway outbound.

4.07p - Exit subway (now on the surface) at Branch Brook Park.

4.26p - Board #74 bus Northbound toward Paterson (This bus has two different routes; make sure you take the one that goes to Delawanna & River Road).

4.41p - Exit bus at Delawanna & River Road.

Walk south a block or so along River Road, where you'll find Rutt's Hutt. Since time is short, you may want to get them to go and eat them on the way back to the bus stop.

5.39p - Board #74 bus to Branch Brook back at Delawanna & River Road. Don't miss this bus -- it's the last of the day!

5.57p - Exit bus at Branch Brook Park City Subway staiton.

6.05p - Board City Subway inbound.

6.19p - Exit subway at Penn Station Newark.

6.38p - Lv. Penn Station Newark on Raritan Valley Line westbound

6.50p - Ar. Roselle Park

Walk from station north on Chestnut street for approximately one-half mile to "Five Points" in Union where you will find the Galloping Hill Inn.

8.59p - Lv. Roselle Park on Raritan Valley Line eastbound

9.18p - Ar. Penn Station Newark

10.32p - Lv. Penn Station on NJ Transit NEC Line

11.38p - Ar. Trenton

12.47a - Lv. Trenton on Septa R7

1.33a - Ar. 30th Street Station

Now, don't you wish you had rented a car instead?

[Andrew Fenton]

Yow. Now that's precision: I feel like I've been given instructions about how to invade Jersey... which, I suppose, is exactly the plan. I'm impressed and terrified, Bob. Thanks.

I'm sitting here laughing, though, because in like two weeks I'm getting a car, and between now and then I'll have no dog-time, anyway. But here's the question I have- did you choose these places for geography (i.e. not too far away from Philly or each other), proximity to mass transit, or their doggitude? Or to put it another way: if I'm going to hit four places in a day, are these the ones to do?

(Probably I should transfer these questions to the NJ board. Probably I should wait until I'm back from ME next week...)

[Rich Pawlak]

If we can pull off a DDC dinner a month, and an almost monthly Piozza Club, I see no reason why we can't do a DDC Hot Dog Caravan. Goddamit that would be fun.

[Andrew Fenton]

Can you imagine a DDC hot dog event? Twenty five bucks would buy a whole lot of nitrates, baby! Oy.

Or supplement the DDC and Pizza Club with a Hot Dog Mob. Lots of options there.

[CoolPapaBell]

Why not that place in Salem--Hudack's or whatever it's called? I have not been but for future reference, how close to I-95 or 295 are they.

[herbacidal]

Dude, a Hot dog run would be awesome!!!

(Where's the panting and salivating smileyface?)

I'd set it up by choosing 3-4 different places from Holly's site.

[John]

Coincidentally, there are 2 hot dog runs in the planning stages. One in Jersey, the other in Connecticut. These 2 states, in my opinion, have the best and widest varieties of hot dogs. The idea for this originated on roadfood.com under the New Jersey hot dog thread. A new thread was started entitled Hot Dog Tour. Anyone interested is invited. Check for details and respond either here or there.

[mantee]

Holly had his favorite sent to me, I ate, my family ate, and they became a special last week. That man does know his dogs!

[tommy]

The idea for this originated on roadfood.com under the New Jersey hot dog thread.

if it's not an egullet hot dog run it ain't nuthin.

linkidy.

i love it when at the end, john the hot dog guy totally shuts down the other dude. excellent.

Edited July 24, 2004 by tommy (log)

[John]

Tommy,

Did you mean the Windmill guy? He is actually one of the owners of the company who happenned to come across the New Jersey hot dog thread. He is trying to expand sales by introducing the brand in supermarkets. The dogs are in Foodtowns down south (manalapan and elsewhere) and soon to be coming to Wegmans. They are also available online at the exorbitant price of $76.95 for 5 lbs.

Windmill hot dogs are a beef and pork blend made by Sabrett. These are also the same dogs used at Callahan's and the Hot Grill. A good dog, but I prefer Max's and the Galloping Hill Inn. I don't know why this man said he was sad about my comments about the Windmill. I didn't knock them; I said they are one of the better dogs in their style. But I like Max's a little better. Max's and the Windmill have somewhat of a rivalry as both are less than a mile apart in Long Branch.

The guy was nice enough to send me an e-mail thanking me for some information I gave him, as well as sending me some Windmill money. Still, I'm debating whether or not I should tell people on that forum that they can get the same hot dogs from a Sabrett distributor for far less money. Last time I called a distributor a year or 2 ago, you could get 5 lbs of the Windmill hot dogs for $17.50. Sure beats ordering the same amount from the Windmill for $76.95.

As for the tour, there are a lot of guys from Connecticut who want to sample Jersey dogs. Originally I suggested one or two guys come down and we would hit a few places. Before you knew it, others started pushing for a hot dog tour. Would be up for a separate one for E-Gullet, or if anyone wants to join this one, feel free.

[rlibkind]

But here's the question I have- did you choose these places for geography (i.e. not too far away from Philly or each other), proximity to mass transit, or their doggitude? Or to put it another way: if I'm going to hit four places in a day, are these the ones to do?

I picked Tommy's and Jerry's because I was born and raised in Elizabeth.

I picked Syd's because that's THE hot dog of my youth, when I ate them at the original Syd's on Chancellor Avenue in Newark.

I picked Rutt's Hutt simply because of its reputation and accessibility. Besides, riding the City Subway to Branch Brook Park is fun. I haven't been Rutt's . . . yet.

I picked Galloping Hill Inn because it's a different type of dog (and also a hotdog from my youth.) Also, i figured after all the other dogs you'd need a half-mile walk!

I make no pretense that this are representative of all dogs in NJ, but the three I've had are good ones -- especially Syd's.

I could have added a bunch of others, including Father & Son in Linden, Charlie's in Kenilworth (Italian style), both of which are accessible from and near to Elizabeth either by bus or train.

Enjoy Acadia!

[John]

Make no mistake, the dogs listed above are definitely among the best in Jersey, at least in my opinion. Union County, where these dogs come from with the exception of Rutt's Hut, is the hot dog capital of Jersey. Syd's is maybe the best dog in the state. Certainly the best grilled all beef dog. Jerry's and Father & Son use a smaller version of the same dog. Syd's charbroils theirs, Jerry's is boiled then grilled, Father & Son is cooked on a griddle. These three are the best places to go for an all beef dog. Right behind them I would add Boulevard Drinks in Jersey City. They serve a small grilled dog that is exactly what you would get at Papaya King. The beef dogs at the Old Heidelburg deserve an honorable mention.

The Galloping Hill Inn is my favorite grilled German style dog. Max's and the Windmill are ok.

Charlies Famous Italian Hot Dogs are the best Italian Dog. Tommy's is a very close second. All others are far behind including Jimmy Buff's.

Rutt's Hut is Rutt's Hut and belongs on any best of list. Only other dog I would add would be a Texas Weiner. My favorite is the Hot Grill in Clifton.

[rlibkind]

Only other dog I would add would be a Texas Weiner. My favorite is the Hot Grill in Clifton.

John,

There used to be a Greek Texas weiner type lunch counter on Elizabeth Avenue in Elizabeth between Broad and Dickinson Streets, same side of street as the old Liberty Theater. Do you know if it's still there?