Little Steamed Juicy Buns

[kangarool]

Bad news: since moving house, my weekly (occasionally daily) fix of steamed little juicy buns are no longer within striking distance.

Good news: I’m now forced to tackle making them myself. While the recipes I’ve found are pretty straightforward, I’m fully prepared that the trick will be in the finesse.

But before I get to that stage, I have found one point of discrepancy in the various recipes I’ve come across: to gel or not to gel. Many/most recipes call for the inclusion of additionally-added gelatin. But my Florence Lin "Chinese Noodles, Dumplings and Breads" (which is almost always reliable) just calls for a long simmer of chopped pork belly & skin. The skin is removed, and the remaining filling and liquid is supposed to gelatinise sufficiently after refrigeration.

Can anyone advise if I should follow a recipe that calls for gelatin added to the stock ... or simply let the ingredients firm themselves up after cooling, enough to then wrap?

Obviously, the main objective is for the juiciest and most flavoursome dumplings the universe has ever known.

Thanks everyone/kanga

[Gary Soup]

F. Lin is correct, the traditional way of making xiaolong bao is to make an "aspic" from rendered pork skin. You can use gelatin as a short-cut, but will want to flavor it as intensely as possible from stock or something. The key point is that it should be chilled solid before wrapping the dumpling and cooking (or freezing) so that it doesn't mingle with the other filling. You want that volcanic explosion of flavor from a source separate from the solid filling.

I've come across xiaolong bao in San Francisco that were structurally almost perfect by Shanghai standards, but never achieved that intensity of flavor delivered by the ones made the "old-fashioned way."

[kangarool]

Thanks Gary, your post has convinced me that the old school approach is the way to go on my first attempt; i can always tinker afterward to gauge results.

As a side note, the only bit in the Florence Lin recipe I have that differs from your advice, is that she suggests cooking all the filling ingredients (that is, both the gelled liquid ingredients along with the ground pork meat and cabbage) all together... but your post suggests doing them separately. I actually am more persuaded by your advice to keep them separate, in order to get two different tastes/textures in that first wonderful bite.

Would you cook the pork belly skin, stock and ginger together for the liquid (and then allowed to gel), and the pork meat and cabbage together, combining them together only at 'wrapper time'?

[aprilmei]

I've made Florence Lin's recipe before and it's fantastic. The ingredients are cooked together. I don't have the book in front of me but it seems that you're referring to a recipe that is NOT xiao long bao - the filling is different. What's the dough like?

Trust Florence - everything I"ve made from that book works.

[kangarool]

I've made Florence Lin's recipe before and it's fantastic. The ingredients are cooked together. I don't have the book in front of me but it seems that you're referring to a recipe that is NOT xiao long bao - the filling is different. What's the dough like?

Trust Florence - everything I"ve made from that book works.

It’s true aprilmei, the (chinese) name in the F. Lin cookbook isn’t "Xiao Long Bao" … but it is "Tang Bao". Her English phrase for the recipe is "Steamed Juicy Buns" so i figured it was the recipe I was thinking of. She starts it by saying "These are the famous Yangzhou steamed juicy buns...".

Another site I found by Googling mentions that the little juicy buns are called various names (in Chinese), including:

Xiao Long Tang Bao

Show loong tong bow

Hsiao lung t'ang pao

Xiao long tang bao

The "tang pao" and bao at the end of all of them suggests it’s same dumpling different name? The filling called for is simply pork, cabbage, ginger, stock, sugar, soy.

??

(edited to correct)

Edited June 21, 2004 by kangarool (log)

[Gary Soup]

The only recipe I could find at hand was in the Wei-Chuan Series ("Chinese Snacks") and it called for making the aspic separately and adding a portion of aspic and a portion of pork filling separately to each bao.

It suggested that the aspic could be made from chicken bones OR pork skin, and offered a gelatin alternative of 1/2 T gelatin to 1/2 cup stock.

I actually observed the crew assembling xiaolong bao at the Nanxiang Xiaolong Dumpling Shop in Shanghai and noticed that they had separate portions of filling and of aspic prepared for them.

[aprilmei]

Kanga, what's the dough like? If I remember correctly, the dough from the ones I made was different from xiao long bao.

[Gary Soup]

It’s true aprilmei, the (chinese) name in the F. Lin cookbook isn’t "Xiao Long Bao" … but it is "Tang Bao".  Her English phrase for the recipe is "Steamed Juicy Buns" so i figured it was the recipe I was thinking of. She starts it by saying "These are the famous Yangzhou steamed juicy buns...". 

This is getting confusing. The only steamed buns that I am aware of that Yangzhou is famous for are "five ingredients" buns, which contain sea cucumber, chicken, pork, bamboo shoots and shrimp. And they are definitely not small. Xiaolong bao are reputedly from Nanxiang, which is in Shanghai County, on the "right" side of the river, as they would have it in Shanghai.

BTW, most recipes for xiaolong bao would have sesame oil, too.

[kangarool]

In the cookbook, she sort of qualifies it (the dough). She says "Traditionally, one should mix two kinds of dough: a yeast dough and a hot-water dough and combine them into one, so that the dough is still tender, but strong enough to hold the broth inside the bun. I have simplified the method, putting the leavening in one dough only, and you can achieve the same quality."

The dough portion of the recipe then calls for flour, sugar, baking powder and warm water.

Never having made them before, it reads to me as if she's trying to make it easy on the novice, trying to get the wrapper reasonably close the real deal, but that there's probably a better (but more-involved) traditional process.

Just as an aside, I think I remember reading once that Joe's Shanghai in New York's Chinatown makes their juicy buns so juicy (and so yummy) by actually INJECTING even more broth into the completed dumpling before steaming. Now that's commitment!

[aprilmei]

Yeah, that's the recipe I used. I don't think the dough for xiao long bao calls for any leavening.

[kangarool]

Hmmm. Now I'm confused too... do you reckon that I'm assuming (incorrectly) that F. Lin's dumpings are the same dumplings that I'm thinking of (which I'm definitely thinking of xiao long bao) -- given the differences in the name, the different geographical reference in the cookbook that Gary noted, and the differences in the dough that you're noting?

[aprilmei]

Yes, they are different but they're also delicious.

Actually, I've eaten quite a number of different breads and dumplings that have soup inside. Xiao long bao are not the only ones, although they seem to be the most popular.

Edited June 21, 2004 by aprilmei (log)

[Jon Tseng]

Traditional way to add gelatin to make the stock

Short-cut (and probably tastier) option is to chuck in some lard too which should melt and add flavour to the broth

J

[kangarool]

So, time allowed me to get halfway through the Tang Bao recipe; I was able to make the filling last night, with Pork Belly and chinese cabbage. Followed Ms. Lin’s instructions and the result was as good as I good have hoped: a wonderfully flavourful result, rich, smooth, a little tangy… great. Best of all, it set overnight in the fridge to the consistency hoped for: gelatinous enough that it should be easily placed as a solid into the dough, once made.

As for Tang Bao vs. Xiao Long Bao, I was still a bit curious and confused about the difference, and tracked this down, if you’re interested.

chinadaily.com article

Mind you, Florence Lin’s filling that I made for what she calls Tang Bao tastes exactly, precisely like every filling I’ve ever had for Xiao Long Bao. But regardless, it does seem that there's a key difference in the dough/wrapper, as aprilmei has pointed out.

Anyway. I’m probably going on too much about it all, but it’s much more fun than doing work.

[Gary Soup]

As for Tang Bao vs. Xiao Long Bao, I was still a bit curious and confused about the difference, and tracked this down, if you’re interested.

One obvious difference is that tang bao are not necessarily "xiao". I've been served one that was about 3.5" in diameter and came in its own small steamer with a soda straw stuck through the hole in the top to drink the "soup" (and incidentally burn one's mouth). Conventional xiaolong are not overly soupy, they just provide that little "Shanghai Surprise."

[Jeannie]

Hi,

This the first time I've ever posted in ANY forum but I stumbled on this site and thought it was fantastic. As I am Shanghainese and born in Shanghai (and now living in the UK) I couldn't resist posting something on this topic.

Xiao long bao fillings do not have any cabbage in them. It is just pure pork mince (sometimes with crab), if it has cabbage or any kind of vegetable in the filling then it is not xiao long bao.

You guys in the US are so lucky to be able to get this. We only have one Shanghainese restaurant in the whole of the UK and that was opened recently. The xiao long bao in that restaurant is decent for the UK as it is something which actually resembles the real thing. Usually what they advertise as xiao long bao in dimsum menus of (predominantly) cantonese restaurants is nothing like the real thing at all: no juice in the bun (totally missing the point) fillings with loads of random things and really tough skin.

Can you get the griddled potsticker version of xiao long bao in the US? I actually prefer them, they are usually sprinkled with sesame.

On the issue of Tang Bao, I think you can think of tang bao as the generic umbrella name for this sort of dumpling. All xiao long bao are tang bao but not all tang bao are xiao long bao! They are bigger than xiao long bao.

[aprilmei]

Can you get the griddled potsticker version of xiao long bao in the US?  I actually prefer them, they are usually sprinkled with sesame.

Hi Jeannie, are you referring to "san cheen bao"? What's the dough like on the ones you're talking about?

[Jeannie]

hi aprilmei

I can't remember how they are called in mandarin but in shanghainese it's "sang ji mui do" er, thats the best I can do in trying to transliterate shanghainese.

They are slightly larger than xiao long bao but they are also very juicy inside.

We can't get them at all in the UK and my mum tried to make some at home, she didn't know how to as no one makes them in Shanghai, they just go out and buy them! She had to make it up and guess, the finished version wasn't too bad!

My mum kneeded the dough with a lot of oil and she said that this was crucial. The dough had to be very elastic.

Sorry I can't be of more help on this.

[Gary Soup]

Hi,

This the first time I've ever posted in ANY forum but I stumbled on this site and thought it was fantastic.   As I am Shanghainese and born in Shanghai (and now living in the UK)  I couldn't resist posting something on this topic. 

A hearty welcome, and I hope you keep posting. It'll be interesting to get the view from the UK on Shanghainese food and Chinese food in general. Where are you? I've heard Manchester has a lot of Chinese restaurants as well as London. Is the Chinese food better in any particular city? Where is the Shanghainese restaurant, and how is the other food?

Can you get the griddled potsticker version of xiao long bao in the US?  I actually prefer them, they are usually sprinkled with sesame.

A few Shanghainese restaurants in San Francisco have them. One place in (Shanghai Dumpling Shop, which also has good xiaolong bao) does them very well, though they aren't as deliciously fatty as the ones on the streets of Shanghai.

It's hard finding really good salty doujiang here, that's something else I miss.

[Gary Soup]

I can't remember how they are called in mandarin but in shanghainese it's "sang ji mui do"  er, thats the best I can do in trying to transliterate shanghainese.

Then Mandarin is shengjian bao.

Thanks to aprilmei for teaching us the Cantonese!

On English restaurant menus here they're typically called "pan fried pork dumplings".

[Jeannie]

The only shanghainese restaurant in the UK is in London and it's called eCaptial. Its good in that it at least attempts to make shanghainese food but I took my parents there and they weren't too impressed especially after they find out that the chef was from Malaysia and not Shanghai at all! It does make a nice change from all the cantonese restaurants here though, although there are more malaysian cafes in London now.

The hong sao rou (belly pork in soy sauce) at this restaurant was ok but I found it far too sweet. I also tried the stir fried yellow eel dish. In shanghai this dish is made with threaded thin river eels and then sprinkled with pepper. They obviously couldn't get the right sort of eel in the UK so the eels were really quite dry and sandy tasting instead of slippery. I think that this the biggest problem here in the UK, you simply can't get the right ingredients! There isn't a big enough chinese community here (in comparison with the US).

I've heard also that manchester has some good cantonese restaurants but I've never eaten there so I can't really comment.

One thing that really frustrates me about chinese food in the UK is that it is still seen as cheap and unsophisticated food (too many English people still only want egg fried rice and sweet sour chicken after a night in the pub) and it doesn't have the cachet of Japanese or Thai food.

There is one restaurant in London called Hakkasan which is the only Chinese restaurant in the UK with a Michelin star. It's very fashionable and expensive. I tried it once and although I was pleasantly surprised (I thought it would pander too much to the western palate) I found the food too salty and also not better than some other chinese restaurants frequented by chinese people but not as well known to westerners.

The image of chinese food here really has to be improved!

Also I think there is a fundamental difference in attitudes towards what counts for a good restaurant in China and in the West. Too many restaurant review websites go on about the decor etc of Chinese restaurants and don't even mention the food. Decor is not as important to the chinese we tend to concentrate much more on the food.

Er, realised that I'm quite a bit off the topic so I'll stop there!

Edited July 3, 2004 by Jeannie (log)

[Jeannie]

Just remembered that when my mum made xiao long bao at home, she kneaded the dough for that with quite a lot of oil as well.

[Jason Perlow]

Can you get the griddled potsticker version of xiao long bao in the US?  I actually prefer them, they are usually sprinkled with sesame.

A few Shanghainese restaurants in San Francisco have them. One place in (Shanghai Dumpling Shop, which also has good xiaolong bao) does them very well, though they aren't as deliciously fatty as the ones on the streets of Shanghai.

Are you referring to these?

These are "Pan Fried Shanghai Buns" from China 46 Restaurant in Ridgefield, New Jersey.

their Xiao Long Bao is excellent as well (sorry for the blurry picture). These have a very thin skin which is easily ruptured, you have to sort of flop them onto a Chinese soup spoon. They are gushing with juice. Everyone who we have brought to this restaurant loves them.

Me eating one:

[Jeannie]

Yes! although the ones in the picture seemed a bit too white? The ones in shanghai are maybe cooked over a high heat so the dough is browned a bit more.

The xiaolong bao looked pretty good though!

I tried to explain to some of my BBC friends (British Born Chinese) and they are mainly from HK. They didn't have a clue what they were, you really can't get them in this country!

Edited July 3, 2004 by Jeannie (log)

[Jason Perlow]

Yes! although the ones in the picture seemed a bit too white? The ones in shanghai are maybe cooked over a high heat so the dough is browned a bit more.

The xiaolong bao looked pretty good though!

I tried to explain to some of my BBC friends (British Born Chinese) and they are mainly from HK. They didn't have a clue what they were, you really can't get them in this country!

The Pan Fried buns at China 46 are primarily pan fried on the bottom, they have a serious browning there. These things come out of the kitchen EXTREMELY hot, you have to wait a few minutes for them to cool down.