Tipping sommeliers

[oakapple]

Most restaurants in NYC include the wine director/sommeiler in the tip pool or pay them as a manager.  Either way, its rarely what they are worth.

Whether NYC sommeliers are earning less than they're worth is an interesting economic question. If they're worth more, then there ought to be somebody willing to pay more. If nobody's willing to pay more, then I have to doubt that they're really worth what you say.

I have never understood the concern people have with *over tipping.*

The standard of 15-20% of the bill for good service (i.e., neither bad nor extraordinary) is customary. The typical restaurant diner has only a very brief interaction with the sommelier. If you order a $100 bottle and tip 20% on the final bill, then $20 of that tip is attributable to the wine — which in most restaurants is already coming at a very high mark-up to cost. If the restaurant is then denying the sommelier of his/her share of the $20 tip, I don't think that's my problem.

Again, I'm referring to the typical dining experience. If you have a long colloquy with the sommelier (i.e., he has done more for you than usual), a separate tip for that individual would make sense.

[daisy17]

and i'm sure not going to track him down when i'm ready to leave to palm the 20. 

This is precisely the problem. I find the idea of traipsing through the dining room at the end of my meal to find the sommelier and then slipping him some money both appalling and bizarre. I would imagine that it would make me uncomfortable if I were the one receiving the tip. So for those of you in the business -- what are you comfortable with? Is there a way for me to separately tip the sommelier without going through this awkward procedure?

[Lesley C]

I don't think I would ever tip a sommelier.

Here in Quebec (Canada) we have a 15% tax tacked on to the bill, and we are expected to add a 15% tip on top of that, so already our bills are astronomical. I have never had a sommelier spend a significant amount of time at my table that would merit added pay. Sommeliers are part and parcel of the upscale restaurant experience, and IMO, it is up to the restaurant's owner to pay them properly for the service they supply -- not the customer who is already paying top dollar to eat at an expensive restaurant.

Also, in this neck of the woods, restaurants that employ sommeliers often sell wines at a higher price, and with that comes fine stemware, the odd decanter, and a sommelier to consult.

I can barely make it over to my hairdresser to slip her a tip after a haircut, so the idea of finding the sommelier after dinner and slipping him a $20 is utterly unimaginable.

I wonder if tipping so many people along the way isn't an American habit. I have never heard of tipping sommeliers anywhere else.

[Pan]

This New Yorker had never heard of the idea of separately tipping the sommelier until he read this thread. I give the sommelier my sincere thanks if I enjoy the wine s/he recommended, but it never occurred to me to tip him/her separately. Then again, I don't think I've ever ordered a wine that cost more than $50 - and that one was split with 3 or 4 other people.

[beans]

I don't think I would ever tip a sommelier.

Here in Quebec (Canada) we have a 15% tax tacked on to the bill, and we are expected to add a 15% tip on top of that, so already our bills are astronomical. I have never had a sommelier spend a significant amount of time at my table that would merit added pay. Sommeliers are part and parcel of the upscale restaurant experience, and IMO, it is up to the restaurant's owner to pay them properly for the service they supply -- not the customer who is already paying top dollar to eat at an expensive restaurant.

Also, in this neck of the woods, restaurants that employ sommeliers often sell wines at a higher price, and with that comes fine stemware, the odd decanter, and a sommelier to consult.

I can barely make it over to my hairdresser to slip her a tip after a haircut, so the idea of finding the sommelier after dinner and slipping him a $20 is utterly unimaginable.

I wonder if tipping so many people along the way isn't an American habit. I have never heard of tipping sommeliers anywhere else.

Restaurants

Table-service waitstaff: 15% to 20% before tax

Buffet, waitstaff: 5% to 10% before tax

Bartender: $1/drink or 15%-20% of bar bill before tax

Sommelier: 20% of wine bill before tax

Parking valet: $2

From CNN, fairly recently.

http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/summer_tipping/

Sure taxes suck, but that never offsets providing appropriate gratuity, of course pending what the generally accepted social norm for that geographic locale.

So I spend about $35-40 on a bottle that was recommended to compliment my chosen course/entree. What's an extra eight whole dollars?

In a perfect world, all service staff ought to be paid properly by their employing pubs, cafes, restaurants, bars, etc. But then I wouldn't bartend because an owner would never shell out that large of a salary for such a position. (Yes, I did leave a college degreed position and am earning much more as part of the service staff. ) Ironic.

But then I also discovered the food and beverage biz is my passion.

[Lesley C]

I think my point was more along the lines about the second part of my post, which was that, at expensive restaurants, one is paying more for just such a service.

When it comes to tipping, I always give 15%. I would never undertip a waiter for bad service, or overtip for good.

And, IMO, the idea of tipping $8 on a $35-$40 bottle of wine is ridiculous, because here that bottle would retail at our government operated liquor store for about $10-$13 -- $2 to $5 more than the tip!

As for valet parking, do you give the same tip to the people who charge $10 for the service as you would for ones who offer it free of charge?

[beans]

And, IMO, the idea of tipping $8 on a $35-$40 bottle of wine is ridiculous, because here that bottle would retail at our government operated liquor store for about $10-$13 -- $2 to $5 more than the tip!

That restaurant mark up on what a wine retails for is similar here in our heavily government regulated wine sales in oHIo. But that is beside the point. If that were so, then the food cost mark up of dining out would warrant the same reasoning. (i.e., "I could have purchased this same steak for $12.99 a pound at the Giant Eagle grocery store!" )

The sommelier deserves the tip on the wine purchase as the server does with the food bill.

As for valet parking, do you give the same tip to the people who charge $10 for the service as you would for ones who offer it free of charge?

Yes.

Regardless if I have to pay $10 or if it is complimentary, I always tip them too.

If out on the lake and docking at a fav establishment, I make plenty sure that even the dock staff (boat "valets" if you will) receive a decent tip for helping tie up. Elsewise the average valet receives a few bucks for the sake of the convenience and service -- even when I was at the Embassy Suites in Niagara and paid $20 for parking where I stayed.

Dining out is expensive.

Each person/position is providing you a service and the attention they spend on your dining experience deserves the appropriate recognition in handing them a few bucks.

[Lesley C]

Well, I completely disagree.

If you chose to tip everyone who helps you out, good for you. But consider this, you aren't tipping anyone in the kitchen who made your meal. I worked as a pastry chef in restaurants where waiters were pooling tips and making a lot more money than I was. If you really want to be fair, I suggest you go into the kitchen and slip a twenty into the chef, sous chef and pastry chef's pockets as well.

Fair is fair.

Dining out may be expensive, but why make it more expensive than it has to be?

[Pan]

The sommelier deserves the tip on the wine purchase as the server does with the food bill.

[...]Each person/position is providing you a service and the attention they spend on your dining experience deserves the appropriate recognition in handing them a few bucks.

Lemme get this straight: You tip the server on the total bill minus tax and wine, and tip the sommelier on the wine? I'm not sure how much the servers like you, in that case.

And do you also tip the host(ess) and busboys separately, since they also provided you a service? How far do you go? Surely, the line chefs are providing you with a big service, as are the dishwashers, etc., and some of those folks typically aren't paid much. Where do you draw the line?

[Edit: I notice Lesley posted to much the same effect while I was working on this post. One further comment, though: Dining out is not always expensive!]

Edited June 20, 2004 by Pan (log)

[beans]

Well, I completely disagree.

If you chose to tip everyone who helps you out, good for you. But consider this, you aren't tipping anyone in the kitchen who made your meal. I worked as a pastry chef in restaurants where waiters were pooling tips and making a lot more money than I was. If you really want to be fair, I suggest you go into the kitchen and slip a twenty into the chef, sous chef and pastry chef's pockets as well.

Fair is fair.

Dining out may be expensive, but why make it more expensive than it has to be?

Hey! I didn't write or make up the generally accepted tipping guidelines! I just work in the biz. Nor did I author the CNN article wherein I included as a link, up thread.

And as interesting side note, indirectly, in some restaurants, the dining patron is indirectly tipping out some kitchen staff. One fine dining establishment wherein I was employed, servers tipped out the expo from their own earned tips.

Who said everyone has to like tipping?!?

I've gotten over it and accepted it as a normal part of the expense of eating out. Perhaps because I'm FOH staff? Is it fair that I worked hard through my university studies, took my LSAT and was accepted to Michigan Law School only to chuck it to the wayside and am now earning fantastic pay -- more than I was within the legal eagle world and without any of the hassle or degrading stress.

Go figure. I breath easier without the weight of the world on my shoulders.

Heart of the house -- pastry, sous, exective, master chefs (pick your position/applicable term) made the choice to pursue their passion. They are salaried. FOH is not salaried.

Sadly one of our really sharp cooks who was moving up the ranks quite nicely and building a solid culinary career jumped out and into serving because of the money.

[beans]

The sommelier deserves the tip on the wine purchase as the server does with the food bill.

[...]Each person/position is providing you a service and the attention they spend on your dining experience deserves the appropriate recognition in handing them a few bucks.

Lemme get this straight: You tip the server on the total bill minus tax and wine, and tip the sommelier on the wine? I'm not sure how much the servers like you, in that case.

Pan, Where I've dined or worked with a sommelier, that is the accepted norm with the servers and sommelier. Besides the idea of tipping is thanking another for the great service, not to be liked.

And do you also tip the host(ess) and busboys separately, since they also provided you a service? How far do you go? Surely, the line chefs are providing you with a big service, as are the dishwashers, etc., and some of those folks typically aren't paid much. Where do you draw the line?

Again in the same fine dining establishment wherein I worked, servers not only tipped out the busboys, bartenders (on the portion of their liquor sales), our wine steward and expo, but also the hostess for seating their section.

Yes, as a restaurant patron, you are tipping those folks as well, albeit indirectly. Line cooks are salaried hopefully with the motivation to achieve more in their culinary career -- no tip to them, unless as some unsavoury agreement with a FOH staff memeber for a great hook up with their out going entrees and that is a whole other can of worms. Dishwashers, well sorry to be so harsh as to say this, but that is the grunt position of the entire restaurant. (God bless our dishwashers!!!) There are reasons why dishwashers are dishwashers -- lack of culinary skills (but learn, pick it up and move on and upwards), etc. (Again! God bless our dishwashers!!!! )

One further comment, though: Dining out is not always expensive!

Places that employ a sommelier are!

code/tag typos! grrrrrrr.

Edited June 20, 2004 by beans (log)

[Stigand]

Interesting article, beans. I especially liked:

WHO NOT TO TIP

Front-desk clerk at a hotel

Ice cream vendor

Camp counselors

Lifeguard

Swimming, tennis and golf instructors

It reminded me of a induction course for new graduate students I attended shortly after moving to the US years ago. We were told, "Basically in the US you should tip everyone. Except the police: that's seen as a faux pas."

I'd always wondered whether I was meant to tip sommeliers separately in the US. In my ignorance I'd assumed they got a share of the general 20% tip. I must say, I feel tremendously awkward whenever I arrive in the US because of the relative complexity of the tipping system. Perhaps for the benefit of us ignorant tourists, the INS could post a big sign in the immigration hall explaining who to tip and how much (added benefit: something to read while waiting in line...).

[tommy]

Hey!  I didn't write or make up the generally accepted tipping guidelines!  I just work in the biz.

i think one of the points is that tipping everyone who had a hand in making your experience what it was, or even the server *and* the wine-person, doesn't fall under "generally accepted tipping guidlines". i'd go as far as to say that you're absoultely wrong with that assertion. if it were generally accepted, you wouldn't have so many experienced diners disagreeing with you.

Edited June 20, 2004 by tommy (log)

[beans]

Hey!  I didn't write or make up the generally accepted tipping guidelines!  I just work in the biz.

i think one of the points is that tipping everyone who had a hand in making your experience what it was, or even the server *and* the wine-person, doesn't fall under "generally accepted tipping guidlines". i'd go as far as to say that you're absoultely wrong with that assertion. if it were generally accepted, you wouldn't have so many experienced diners disagreeing with you.

So I suppose the CNN article is wrong? Again, I didn't conjure up this social custom.

Because the eight posting on this thread are unaware about tipping a sommelier, I'm wrong because of the experience I had working in fine dining wherein we did have a wine steward (she was 99% through her sommelier studies) ??

Deny, disagree or feign heart-of-the-house jealousy about FOH tips -- whatev. I'm done doing my front of the house cheerleading support of all earning a decent living.

If I can't afford to tip, I don't eat out.

We all make our financial choices.

[tommy]

So I suppose the CNN article is wrong?

there's no right and wrong. but yeah, the article is wrong if applied to the average restaurant visit. i never had much faith in ol' emily anyway.

Because the eight posting on this thread are unaware about tipping a sommelier, I'm wrong because of the experience I had working in fine dining wherein we did have a wine steward (she was 99% through her sommelier studies) ??

i didn't realize we were talking about "fine dining" here, although i'd be curious as to what percentage of the time sommeliers are tipped at most upscale restaurants, including the one that mark sommelier works at.

"generally accepted". no, i think not. appropriate sometimes? sure, why not.

[RobinsonCuisine]

There are no hard and fast rules to tipping. There are guidelines and there is good breeding. (Sorry, had to throw that in <g>). If someone enhanced your experience, a gratuity is not out of line and I too am of the school that if I am not willing/able to tip on the entire bill, I won't eat out. (Side bar--when in a foreign country, I ask what the custom is and then leave a bit more....except in France where over tipping is considered just as rude as not tipping).

In the USA, servers legally earn 1/2 the minimum wage but are taxed on 15% of restaurant sales as it is assumed they make that much in tips. This means that the US government assumes the tip average is 20% as servers tip out runners, bar, bussers, etc.

Sommeliers/Wine directors/Wine Stewards are sometimes included in this pool, sometimes not. They accepted the job knowing full well what their potential earnings would be. Most are in this line of work out of love of the juice, not necessity, and accept that they often are underappreciated by the general dining public (as are the kitchen crew).

I never expect a tip for helping a diner choose a wine and never ignore a request for help or a suggestion. I get a great deal of pleasure from the guest's enjoyment of my suggestion from the wine list I constantly work on.

But those guests who remember me with a token of their appreciation are the guests I dote on....saving a last bottle of a favorite vintage......keeping that guest in mind when tasting and ordering........taking extra steps for.

And why shouldn't I? They have shown that they appreciate my efforts and deserve to be thanked for that consideration.

[Juanito]

In the USA, servers legally earn 1/2 the minimum wage but are taxed on 15% of restaurant sales as it is assumed they make that much in tips. This means that the US government assumes the tip average is 20% as servers tip out runners, bar, bussers, etc.

In California, there is no exemption for servers - they earn the full minimum wage.

I guess every state differs.

[KatieLoeb]

In the USA, servers legally earn 1/2 the minimum wage but are taxed on 15% of restaurant sales as it is assumed they make that much in tips. This means that the US government assumes the tip average is 20% as servers tip out runners, bar, bussers, etc.

In California, there is no exemption for servers - they earn the full minimum wage.

I guess every state differs.

Every state does differ - both in whether or not the server makes full minimum wage and in what that minimum actually is. None can be below the federal guideline, but it can vary a bit as it does between PA ($5.15/hr.) and DE ($6.15/hr.), for example.

[marcus]

Sommeliers/Wine directors/Wine Stewards are sometimes included in this pool, sometimes not.

If sommeliers are included in the tip pool, then wouldn't they be required to pay any tips that they receive back into the pool, or do they have a special status?

Edited June 21, 2004 by marcus (log)

[beans]

I'm not sure about what anyone is specifically referring to about tip pools, i.e., everyone makes the same amount at the end of a shift. I worked about one hour in a restaurant that failed to inform me about this practice. Great for team work ethic, however it equally rewards the slackers as the gold star up-sellers that do their running and closing side work.

Generally, portions of the tips a server receives is a trickle down effect with the others that have helped the server -- the buser, bartender, etc. Bartenders have to tip others out -- food runners and barbacks.

Who does a sommelier have to tip out? Basically no one.

The bartender gets tipped on alcohol sales. The server gets tipped on food sales. The sommelier gets tipped on wine sales.

Curious as others have posted their surprise about this thread referring to fine dining.

What other form of dining employs a fully recognised sommelier? Gee, in Cleveland I think there may be all of five of them in this city -- all fine dining (if even that many).

[tommy]

Curious as others have posted their surprise about this thread referring to fine dining.

What other form of dining employs a fully recognised sommelier? Gee, in Cleveland I think there may be all of five of them in this city -- all fine dining (if even that many).

i'll guess that i'm one of the "others" if not the only "other".

here in the big city, we got wine-guys at all levels of restaurants.

[rich]

Is there a way for me to separately tip the sommelier without going through this awkward procedure?

Yes. Just ask the waiter (as you're paying the check) if you could see the wine steward.

[marcus]

I'm not sure about what anyone is specifically referring to about tip pools, i.e., everyone makes the same amount at the end of a shift. .....Generally, portions of the tips a server receives is a trickle down effect with the others that have helped the server -- the buser, bartender, etc. Bartenders have to tip others out -- food runners and barbacks.

The bartender gets tipped on alcohol sales. The server gets tipped on food sales. The sommelier gets tipped on wine sales.

I would be interested in a precise picture of what typically happens with tips in a high end restaurant. As most tips are paid via credit card, it's not clear to me how this tipping out process takes place. Also consider that the credit card company is also taking a slice. In addition, my understanding is that many high end restaurants have gone to a true teaming approach where all of the employees effectively serve all of the customers. In this case, a common tip pool would make the most sense.

With regard to tipping the server on food sales and the sommelier on wine sales, this is clearly not the case. The server is tipped on the entire bill including wine. Any tip to the sommelier would be over and above that. How the bartender gets tipped for drinks served at the table is another interesting question.

[tommy]

How the bartender gets tipped for drinks served at the table is another interesting question.

at most restaurants, they get tipped out, just like the runners/bus boys. however, i can't speak to the process at high-end restaurants.

[beans]

I'm not sure about what anyone is specifically referring to about tip pools, i.e., everyone makes the same amount at the end of a shift.  .....Generally, portions of the tips a server receives is a trickle down effect with the others that have helped the server -- the buser, bartender, etc.  Bartenders have to tip others out -- food runners and barbacks.

The bartender gets tipped on alcohol sales.  The server gets tipped on food sales.  The sommelier gets tipped on wine sales.

I would be interested in a precise picture of what typically happens with tips in a high end restaurant. As most tips are paid via credit card, it's not clear to me how this tipping out process takes place. Also consider that the credit card company is also taking a slice. In addition, my understanding is that many high end restaurants have gone to a true teaming approach where all of the employees effectively serve all of the customers. In this case, a common tip pool would make the most sense.

With regard to tipping the server on food sales and the sommelier on wine sales, this is clearly not the case. The server is tipped on the entire bill including wine. Any tip to the sommelier would be over and above that. How the bartender gets tipped for drinks served at the table is another interesting question.

I do know that the hand written ticket still is out there, but gosh what a antiquated (sp?) system.

Ah technology.

Each restaurant's POS system (where the server keys in a guest's order) prints out a final summary of their sales, each shift, breaking every category down. That is a part of their "close out" procedure and very important for the restaurant to track as well. (Who is slacking on selling apps, desserts, check averages, etc.)

That check out is presented to that server's assigned service bar (we have eight bars), and one of the bartenders accept their tip out, reviews and signs their report. A server cannot leave for the afternoon/evening without four signatures -- shift leader (who checks of that server's closing side work was completed), food runners (they get a tip out), bar and bussers. Where I work, actually the bar gets a straight 1.5% of the server's total sales. And how true that those that tip best receive the fastest and best attention.

A tip pool (where everyone earns the same amount) is The. Absolute. Worst. It is a staff killer unless you have a 100 percent stellar, tight crew and high ticket averages/tips. (read: RARE) I kid you not, I quit within an hour of starting a new job when I learnt of that practice, and also in another job situation when a bar manager misquoted me about server tip out to barstaff at 5 percent when in fact she goofed and it really was .5 percent. (Although the latter was not solely based upon the server tip out -- none of them had any sort of liquor training and it was a complete nightmare dealing with their screwed up orders ).