Is the 90 day/6 month rule enforced?

[sf,ca]

My husband is doing a stage in France for 6 months. Everyone tells him that he can leave after 90 days, go to a non-Schengen country (such as the UK or Switzerland) for the night, then come back into France. This little trip, he's been told, will "reset" his 90 days. No visa required.

However, the French consulate here in SF tells me that actually, no, this is not the law. The max is 90 days within a 6 month period.

So I'm wondering....has anyone tried the first method (taking the day trip outside Schengen territory) and have you had any issues coming back into the country? Seems like this is what most people do....???

Many thanks!

Kristin.

[Bux]

Let me say two things off the bat. The first is to warn you that this is not a lawyers office, not to mention not a direct link to the French ministery of immigration or whatever. It should be obvious that no one here should be considered as able to give legal or medical advice, even if they're a doctor or lawyer. I've known consulates to be misinformed and to give out erroneous information.

The second is that many people continue to stay in France well beyond thier legal 90 days. The goverment doesn't routinely go around rounding up those who have entered the country more than three months ago. The more rational fear is that if you're stopped for a traffic violation, it's just as easy for them to deport you as to do anything else.

The questions I'd ask are about the stage. How official is it? Is he getting paid, is he paying, is this stage registered in some way, is it through a school, etc. Is it something that would enable him to get a visa, or require him to have a visa, for instance?

I've heard the 90 days in six months, and I've also heard 90 days in a row with a maximum of 180 days within a year. A US citizen doesn't need a visa for 90 days, but you can apply for a long stay visa of over 90 days as a tourist and possibly under other circumstances. The question is whether his stage is something that will help get the visa or something that has to be hidden.

What other people have gotten away with in the past, may not be the best guide on what he should do.

[John Talbott]

Bux's wisdom is irrefutable, eGullet is probably not the ideal place to get a consultation from, but I have made it a practice to "get my passport stamped" (eg leave France for Switzerland, the US, Canada, etc) before 90 days are up whenever I'm in France for long periods.

[sf,ca]

Thanks to you both. That really helps.

His stage is totally informal, he's basically spending a month in one kitchen, then moving to another kitchen for a month, and so on....until September. Very much unpaid.

Unfortunately, at this point, he can't apply for the long stay visa unless he came back to the US.

But thank you for your feedback, I will pass it on!!

[Bux]

You didn't tell us he's already there. In that case it's too late for good advice.

Please don't take that in a bad way, but it would have been good information to know. He's got little choice now but to play it by ear. I know my passport has always been stamped when I've entered or left France for the US via an airport. It's not stamped when I leave for a bordering EU country. I suspect it will be stamped when he leaves a Schengen treaty country for a non Schengen treaty country. If it isn't, he'll have no proof that he's not been outside the area.

Depending on what the law really says, he could face bigger trouble by leaving than by staying. If he leaves after 90 days and tries to return, he could be stopped at the border and denied re-entry if the law says no more than 90 days within 180 days. His best bet seems to be to leave and return after maybe 60-70days and then risk a few weeks at the end, or just stay as long as he can and forget about leaving. I've never known anyone to suffer for having overstayed when leaving at the end of their stay.

[Bux]

And don't forget he owes us a full report on what he's seen and done in France.

[artisanbaker]

i've stayed for a year before, and basically i just saved the ticket/proof from my most recent trip across the border. theoretically, i could have been in the other country for the majority of my tenure in europe, thus reducing the time that i was in france...

not that i'm saying it's ok to lie or anything!

[John Talbott]

Artisanbaker's point is a good one. Even going to countries where your passport won't get stamped, (say Belgium by car), I've saved things like the gas receipts. Like Bux, I've never heard of them doing anything on exiting France if you overstay. On the other hand, I know French citizens, even married to Americans, where they overstayed their visas and they were barred from returning for some time. Again, tho, eGullet is not eForensics.

[bleudauvergne]

Something important to think about when you come to execute the stage in the series of restaurants is to make sure you have medical coverage. Because if you are injured on the job, since you are not an employee and not falling in the safety net of French healthcare system, it could be problematic. Just something to think about.

Thinking back on getting my passport stamp coming in. We were very careful to make sure we had all the details coming in from the French consulate in LA exactly what would be required. We were told before arriving here for good, to make absolutely sure I got a stamp in my passport in order to establish in my initial carte de residence dossier the date I arrived in France. However, when we arrived, we had a transfer through Frankfurt, and the flight entering Paris was a commuter flight, and they didn't do a customs check! No one there could stamp my passport! They said : Go to the train station if you want it stamped! We asked several places and explained our situation, and they acted like we were crazy and absolutely refused to help us find a way to stamp my passport. This was four years ago. We ended up just continuing on our journey. It turns out that they wanted the date I entered Europe, and not France in my dossier. I didn't have any problems using the stamp from Frankfurt. Which makes me wonder if this 90 day rule applies to all of Europe or just to France.

so non-Schengen means non European?

If you aren't even applying for a carte de sejour to do the stages, you should not really get any hassle. You won't have cops coming up to you and ask to examine your passport, really. If you do decide, after being here for a few months, that you want to stay, however, you might consider going to the train station and get a stamp.

Edited June 9, 2004 by bleudauvergne (log)

[Bux]

so non-Schengen means non European? 

Schengen treaty countries: Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Sweden. For the most part, there are no border controls between these countries. Old border stations are, for the most part, completely unmanned and empty.

I am a bit unclear as the differences between Schengen country relationships and those of EU countries as far as borders are concerned. There is more information here and at the following web sites (both are in English).

http://europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33020.htm

http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/will...n/schengen_html

[DCMark]

Just a note from a semi-expert on US immigration. First, this type of post may be helpful for one person but is highly problematic and frankly I am surprised the strict EGullet policy has allowed it to stay up. There is advice here on skirting immigration law so be careful.

For any non-US citizens reading this and hoping to apply the same lessons to their stay in the US, I say DO NOT. US immigration law can be quite strict and is getting more strict. Over-stay of the US Visa Waiver program by a European, or non-authorized work, can result in a ban from the US for 3 or 10 years, or even a permanent ban. Marriage to a US citizen does not neccessarily remove this ban.

Also keep in mind that statements that one is not a lawyer or not 'your' lawyer have been proven on US immigration messageboards to be less than perfect protection from later consequences of qusai-legal advice.

Good luck

Edited June 17, 2004 by DCMark (log)