Shallots vs. Onions

[aprilmei]

I guess this is strange, but if I am going to substitute, I tend to do it the opposite way of what everybody else here seems to do - I use shallots instead of onions. If I'm cooking for just one or two and don't need a whole onion, I will just chop up a couple of shallots because we always have them on hand - this is Hong Kong and shallots cost only about HK$4 (about US 50 cents) per bag. I guess it would be cheaper to use a half- or quarter-onion but then the leftover portion always gets lost in the fridge and I hate the idea of it going to waste.

How much do shallots cost back in the States?

[Carlovski]

Shallots are a key ingredient in Vietnamese food and Thai food. It can't be substituted for those cusines -- its a very important player in the dishes that use them (in both raw and cooked forms) and the flavors are distinct.

Aren't the ones used in southeast asia slightly different though?

[Adam Balic]

I wonder if everybody is talking about the same item as the term "Shallot" can mean different things to different people.

In some places "Shallot" = scallion/spring onion which is not the same as the shallot from classic french cooking.

Also "eschallot" can also be 'scallion/spring onion/green onion' or  'shallot'.

Plus there are Asian shallots which are different again, but often the same thing Welsh Onions.

All these things taste very different to me and smell of shallots cooking in butter is one of the great pleasures of cooking.  

[Fat Guy]

I'm personally talking about the shallots found in classic French cooking. I use "Thai shallot" or "Asian red onion" to refer to the red shallots used in Asian cookery. And I wouldn't call scallions or spring onions shallots, ever. YMMV.

[Fat Guy]

Here's something useful on the subject, from Waitrose:

http://www.waitrose.com/food_drink/wfi/ing...les/9810108.asp

[Adam Balic]

And I wouldn't call scallions or spring onions shallots, ever. YMMV.

Neither would I, but most people in NSW, Australia would. As a lot of Australian chefs come out of Sydney I have know numerous occasions where the term has been confused when people from othr regions cook from Australian chef cookbooks.

What you and I would call a shallot that use the term "eschallot". Do people in the USA us the term eschallot? And if so what are they refereing to?

[Fat Guy]

I've never heard eschallot used in the US -- everybody here just seems to say green onion or spring onion (or scallion, because a lot of US cooks don't differentiate between scallions and green onions).

[DRColby]

I grow shallots for our kitchen and fine there are several different types, some which we brought back from Europe as seed. All, though seem to come from either the Dutch yellow or French red types.

I start using my shallots when they are young, much like green onions, and then in the Fall take what remains and eitherdry or put back in the ground as Winter sets which grow much as leeks here in the Pacific NW.

Seldom do I use onions if I can sub shallots. Whenever I make an oil based dressing I use shallots that are marinated in the vinegar as, I think, Alice Waters suggests. I almost always use shallots with wild mushrooms.

If I have to buy shallots I buy them at an Asian green grocer as they are about half of those at a regular grocery.

Last Summer there must have been a glut of shallots in France because Costco had some of the nicest French reds I have seen for about $5 a bag. They also had a great recipe enclosed that called for boiling the shallots uncovered in red wine and butter until all the liquid is gone. Hopefully Costco will do it again this Summer because they also make great sets for the garden. I also buy elephant garlic at Costco and use it in the garden.

dave

[Jason Perlow]

I'm personally talking about the shallots found in classic French cooking. I use "Thai shallot" or "Asian red onion" to refer to the red shallots used in Asian cookery. And I wouldn't call scallions or spring onions shallots, ever. YMMV.

Interesting, I've seen American Thai and Vietnamese restaurants use western-style shallots, and we've used them at home for making southeast asian dishes ourselves. I'll have to ask KT at Saigon Republic what she uses.

[Adam Balic]

I've never heard eschallot used in the US -- everybody here just seems to say green onion or spring onion (or scallion, because a lot of US cooks don't differentiate between scallions and green onions).

Are you saying that scallions and green onions are different things in the US? The would be in Australia as well, but in the UK Green onions are often very large scallions/spring onions, basically the Calçots of Catalan France.

Oh, I forgot to say that I like bananna shallots as they are less of a pain in the arse to peel in quantity.

[Jason Perlow]

I've never heard eschallot used in the US -- everybody here just seems to say green onion or spring onion (or scallion, because a lot of US cooks don't differentiate between scallions and green onions).

Are you saying that scallions and green onions are different things in the US? The would be in Australia as well, but in the UK Green onions are often very large scallions/spring onions, basically the Calçots of Catalan France.

Oh, I forgot to say that I like bananna shallots as they are less of a pain in the arse to peel in quantity.

No, scallions and green onions are the same things in the US, they are just called different things in different parts to the country. In New York scallion is the common vernacular where as in the American south, green onion is more commonly used. In Louisiana for example they are commonly referred to as "Onion tops" because the cajuns use primarily the top part of the Scallion.

[andiesenji]

I grow shallots for our kitchen and fine there are several different types, some which we brought back from Europe as seed. All, though seem to come from either the Dutch yellow or French red types.

I start using my shallots when they are young, much like green onions, and then in the Fall take what remains and eitherdry or put back in the ground as Winter sets which grow much as leeks here in the Pacific NW.

Last Summer there must have been a glut of shallots in France because Costco had some of the nicest French reds I have seen for about $5 a bag. They also had a great recipe enclosed that called for boiling the shallots uncovered in red wine and butter until all the liquid is gone. Hopefully Costco will do it again this Summer because they also make great sets for the garden. I also buy elephant garlic at Costco and use it in the garden.

dave

Besides the elephant garlic, have you tried growing some of the newer varieties of garlic? I bought some new to me varieties last fall from Peaceful Valley Farm Supply in Grass Valley, Calif. (can't order bulbs from most states because of ag restrictions).

I really like the Chesnok Red variety which matures into a very large bulb and is lovely for baking. It is a hard-neck variety originally from Georgia (Russia).

The other new one is named Music and also has very large cloves.

They are both grown commercially in Washington state so should be fine in your garden.

I wanted varieties with larger cloves because I slice and dry quite a bit of the garlic and slicing the small cloves is a chore.

I also wanted a very pungent variety for roasting in oil because there have been so many warnings about botulism in cold garlic infused oils in recent years. I have found that the very sharp and pungent varieties actually become sweeter than the milder varieties with prolonged roasting in oil. Have you tried this?

[Jason Perlow]

BTW apparently most of the scallions/green onions grown in the state of Georgia are apparently Vidalia onions, in the infant stages.

http://www.ces.uga.edu/pubcd/C821.htm

also, from Texas A&M's website:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/PLANTan...s/oniongro.html

Mid to late October is the best time to plant seed of the super sweet, short-to-intermediate daylength onion types in Texas zones III - V (USDA Zones 8 and 9). Seeds can be sown directly into the garden, covered with one-fourth inch of soil and should sprout within 7- 10 days. If planted thickly, plants can be pulled and utilized as green onions or scallions for salads or fresh eating in 8-10 weeks. However, most gardeners want to grow an onion bulb as large as a basketball. To do this, the onion plants must be thinned by next February until they are at least 2-3 inches apart to insure adequate bulb expansion. The removed plants can be used for scallions or for transplanting into another area of the garden so that these too will have adequate space in which to enlarge into large bulbs.

So it looks like I was wrong -- a "scallion" is actually different from "a green onion" even though they are used interchangeably. Note that I've never seen a larger, Vidalia-type green onion in the NY metro area, though. The closest thing I've seen are various kinds of leeks in Asian markets, and they typically carry "scallions" as well.

[Jason Perlow]

Or, a better way to look at this is all scallions are green onions, but not all green onions are scallions.

Ok, I'm done.

[Fat Guy]

This is a pretty good taxonomic overview from the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture:

http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/98-037.htm

[andiesenji]

So it looks like I was wrong -- a "scallion" is actually different from "a green onion" even though they are used interchangeably. Note that I've never seen a larger, Vidalia-type green onion in the NY metro area, though. The closest thing I've seen are various kinds of leeks in Asian markets, and they typically carry "scallions" as well.

I don't think you are wrong at all. There are numerous mentions of green onions "also known as scallions" in cookbooks, on websites, etc.

There are different varieties of course. I grow the "green bunching (Oriental) onions which never form a bulb per se. They just get bigger and sent up a seed stalk when they are about an inch in diameter at the base. Same with the Lisbon "white" bunching onion.

I have one area of my garden where they self-seed but some of the plants themselves are 2-3 years old, the tops die back in winter but then send up a new green shoot in spring.

They are extremely pungent. I leave them alone and just harvest the seeds. There are several clumps growing in containers where the wind blew the seeds.

Here in the Antelope Valley in So.Calif., the "high" desert, there are several large onion farms and in recent years they have had "onion rustlers" who go into the fields at night, after the onions have been harvest and are laying on the ground to dry, and load up pickup trucks with the onions, then sell them at the Farmer's markets as "organic" produce. (The "high" refers to altitude, this area is over 2000 ft above sea level as compared to the "low" desert (Palm Springs) which is at or below sea level.)

The locally grown onions are not as sweet as the Walla Walla or Mayan, but are great for carmelized onions and in onion soup. With long, slow cooking they become very sweet.

[Jason Perlow]

However, most gardeners want to grow an onion bulb as large as a basketball.

I wonder if they mean baseballs or softballs. I've never seen an onion as big as a basketball. That would be one mother #$%^ big onion.

[Adam Balic]

Or, a better way to look at this is all scallions are green onions, but not all green onions are scallions.

Ok, I'm done.

And we haven't even mentioned chives.

Scallion = no bulb green onion, it would seem. Curious as Calçots are quite large, but are not bulbed. Could be down to the way they are grown as much as variety I guess.

[Jason Perlow]

This is a pretty good taxonomic overview from the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture:

http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/98-037.htm

Two general types of shallots are available. French-Italian has brownish-red skin, well-shaped bulbs, and a flavour between onion and garlic. Varietal names include Pikant, Atlas, Ambition, Ed’s Red, and Creation. They can be used either dry or green.

A second type is Welsh shallot. Louisiana Evergreen is one variety. It bulbs poorly, but provides a year-round supply of green shallots for salads, seasonings, or appetizers.

So in Louisiana, the "Onion Top" is actually a type of shallot which doesnt bulb well?

[Al_Dente]

However, most gardeners want to grow an onion bulb as large as a basketball.

I wonder if they mean baseballs or softballs. I've never seen an onion as big as a basketball. That would be one mother #$%^ big onion.

Scroll down for 4 pound onion

[Jason Perlow]

Wow, I didnt know they grew such massive onions in Alaska.

[FistFullaRoux]

This is a pretty good taxonomic overview from the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture:

http://www.gov.on.ca/OMAFRA/english/crops/facts/98-037.htm

Two general types of shallots are available. French-Italian has brownish-red skin, well-shaped bulbs, and a flavour between onion and garlic. Varietal names include Pikant, Atlas, Ambition, Ed’s Red, and Creation. They can be used either dry or green.

A second type is Welsh shallot. Louisiana Evergreen is one variety. It bulbs poorly, but provides a year-round supply of green shallots for salads, seasonings, or appetizers.

So in Louisiana, the "Onion Top" is actually a type of shallot which doesnt bulb well?

"Onion tops" are the local name for scallions, as far as I know.

It's just one of those Louisiana things, like calling a median on a boulevard the neutral ground.

Louisianians and their wacky language - Confusing the tourists since 1812...

[Andrea Nguyen]

Interesting, I've seen American Thai and Vietnamese restaurants use western-style shallots,

Thai and Viet markets in the U.S. use whatever strain of shallot that's available here; the skin is a rich brown color. In Vietnam, the shallots are smaller and the skin is red-purple. When you want a lot of shallots at a cheap price, head to where Thais and Viet people shop for food. These members of the lily family are sold in plastic netting by the bag. They can be of slightly less quality (you get what you pay for) but the price is right.

In Vietnamese cooking, shallots are used practically everyday. They have a remarkably sweet fragrance that's not like the regular yellow onion. Shallots may be pickled; thinly sliced, dehydrated and then fried to a crisp and used to garnish certain foods; and sometimes be charred and use them in pho stock instead of yellow onion.

Andrea

[fifi]

Here in Texas, my mother and grandmother always called green onions shallots, or sometimes green onions, or sometimes scallions. (No wonder I am conflicted. ) Oddly, we never called them onion tops like they do in Louisiana. We didn't know what a "real" shallot was until my mother started growing "weird stuff" before it was cool.

[Mabelline]

Shallots are shallots, scallions are green onions, whether wild, bunching, or walking. Then, if you aren't confused enough, there are potato onions, which are closely resembling cippolini.Onion tops are up there too. When you buy 'em, you know what you're looking for, so what's on the plaques does not count. But a true shallot is quite different from scallions. More like elephant garlic cloves, but with a faint onion smell, and a fox, russet, or purplish skin. Are you confused yet?

Edit to add: I think the best onion confit starts with a 'right smart' onion, as my mom would call them, a lot of nice onion savor getting transformed into onion HEAVEN!

Edited May 21, 2004 by Mabelline (log)